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Encoded or not?

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:34 am UTC
by hyperion
Are there any words or sentences which, when encoded with a caesar cipher, still read as correct sentences?

eg "attack at dawn" -> caesar cipher(x) -> "i like puppies"

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:13 am UTC
by bsoric
--

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:11 am UTC
by Mouffles
^ Post in the intro thread, please.

Dolls <-> wheel
Jolly <-> cheer
(from Wikipedia)

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:36 pm UTC
by bsoric
Done and done.

Clerk <-> Pyrex
Cheryl <-> Purely

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:48 pm UTC
by Cauchy
A <-> I (8).

Sorry.

Edit: Damn smilies.

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:07 pm UTC
by Hix
My favorite:

Terra -> Caesar_cipher(13) -> Green

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:58 pm UTC
by Torn Apart By Dingos
I made a search through a wordlist (lower.txt that I originally got somewhere from http://www.openwall.com/ ) that contained a bunch of crap words, like "aaa", and filtered through the results manually.

Word pairs (that no one has mentioned yet):

ab no
ant nag
balk onyx
bar one
barf ones
be or
chat pung
creel perry
envy rail
flap sync
frag sent
fur she
gel try
gnat tang (also a palindrome pair!)

Other interesting rot13 pairs:

abba noon
aha nun
becuna orphan (becuna is the name of a submarine)
fret serg (almost zerg, which should enter the English dictionary any day now)
iran vena
iraq vend
jung what

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:43 pm UTC
by Cosmologicon
A search through the ENABLE word list turns up 1269 pairs, most of which are, of course, crap. There are two seven-letter pairs: abjurer/nowhere (13) and primero/sulphur (3). (To abjure means to renounce, and primero is an English card game.) There are 11 six-letter pairs, my favorite of which are: fusion/layout (6), inkier/purply (7), and steeds/tuffet (1).

Interestingly, if you look at the number of steps by which pairs of words are separated, there's a big discrepancy:

Code: Select all

     67 1
     37 2
     89 3
    145 4
     24 5
    219 6
     84 7
    108 8
     68 9
    129 10
     77 11
    167 12
     54 13

Maybe if you want to make a sentence of these things like in the OP, you should look at pairs with a difference of 6. Here's the list with only the really obscure words taken out:
ails/gory alohas/grungy bin/hot boa/hug bob/huh bog/hum bolls/hurry bomb/hush boy/hue bub/hah bud/haj buff/hall bug/ham bulls/harry bum/has bun/hat bus/hay buts/hazy butyl/hazer by/he chain/ingot din/jot dis/joy don/jut dug/jam fills/lorry fin/lot fir/lox foam/lugs fug/lam funny/latte fur/lax fusion/layout gig/mom gogo/mumu golem/murks guff/mall gulls/marry gum/mas gun/mat gunny/matte guts/mazy hi/no hub/nah hug/nam hymn/nest ion/out jiff/poll jig/pom jimmy/posse jin/pot jinns/potty joey/puke john/punt limy/rose lion/rout loam/rugs loch/ruin log/rum lug/ram mills/sorry mix/sod mocha/suing moly/sure muffs/sally mulch/sarin munch/satin nill/torr nor/tux nulls/tarry nun/tat oafs/ugly pun/vat qua/wag quay/wage sue/yak sync/yeti uh/an um/as via/bog vis/boy vox/bud wile/cork wiles/corky wily/core win/cot wits/cozy wolf/curl wolfs/curly wombs/cushy


Good luck!

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:48 pm UTC
by skeptical scientist
Of course, there are a lot more options if you take out spaces so the word lengths don't have to match up.

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:18 pm UTC
by Yakk
Start with a rotation amount.

Then pick a word and rotate it.

Recurse:
Search through the dictionary. Find a word that is a prefix to your rotated word. Consume letters. If entire word consumed, output both sentences. Recurse.

Search through the dictionary. Find a word that this word is a strict prefix of. Take tailing contents of new word, anti-rotate it, and solve the problem backwards.

Stop when your sentence gets too long.

...

Some pruning would have to be done for dumb short words.

If your dictionary was broken down by part of speech, you could use that and a simple grammer to generate a more meaning-dense list of Caesar pairs. :)

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:00 pm UTC
by skeptical scientist
So stop yammering and do it. :P
We demand grammatically correct sentences!

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:23 pm UTC
by Cosmologicon
Okay.... I gave it a shot. I decided to use ROT13 because that's probably coolest. Here are the longest "sentences" my program came up with after several minutes:

Code: Select all

10: aby bunting <-> nolo hag vat
10: begrim barf <-> ort evzones
10: nacre barny <-> an peroneal
10: nearing shy <-> ar ne vatful
10: nestler arf <-> arf gyrenes
10: rattler arf <-> eng gyrenes
10: reavail vat <-> ern in vying
10: regreen arf <-> er terranes
10: ruthful rex <-> eh gush yerk
10: untrim barf <-> hag evzones
11: bayberry vat <-> on lo reeling
11: flagrant vat <-> syn ten aging
11: inform vying <-> vas bezil vat
11: snib ethanes <-> favor gun arf
11: tungs be tref <-> ghat forgers
12: ahorse na tref <-> nub ef rangers
12: bob yabbering <-> obol noo re vat
12: tangency vara <-> gnat rap linen
13: annal baronnes <-> na anyone ba arf
13: entrance ba vat <-> rag en aproning
13: puncher gun arf <-> chap urethanes
13: repentant tref <-> er crag naggers
14: aberrance ba vat <-> no re en aproning
14: halvah as rap vat <-> un yin unfencing
14: reenters bet vat <-> er rag reforging
14: shoehorn frying <-> fub rub easel vat
16: nonobservant tref <-> ab ab of rei naggers
16: overturns vergers <-> bi reg he afire tref
19: rechargers er furanes <-> er pun et refreshen arf

For obvious reasons, I thought it might be a good idea to incorporate a word list that takes word frequencies into account. So I found a list of word frequencies of the 5000 most common words in the Brown corpus, and here are the longest "sentences" I got:

Code: Select all

11: above guns be <-> no birth a for
11: been a the on a <-> or rang urban
11: hair else bag <-> un very front
11: on the on as be <-> bag urban for
11: share e be for <-> fun errors be
12: a ben errors be <-> no rare e be for
12: bed hr ranging <-> or queen a tv at
12: been errors be <-> or rare e be for
12: but virgin for <-> oh give tv as be
12: had hr range hr <-> un queen a true
12: hanging urban <-> un a tv a the on a
12: her gun a rev at <-> urethane ring
12: her gun art bar <-> urethane gone
12: on queen lo he a <-> bad hr rayburn
12: one are e be for <-> barn errors be
12: open lo he as be <-> bc rayburn for
12: that big urban <-> gun gov the on a
12: train else bag <-> gen vary front
12: were e be front <-> jr errors e bag
12: your errors be <-> lb here e be for
13: a been errors be <-> nor rare e be for
13: but barn are e be <-> oh gone an error
13: were e be fun for <-> jr errors has be
14: begins be guns be <-> or tv a forth a for
14: has errors be gun <-> un free be forth a
14: that by vs run for <-> gun go life has be
15: been a tv a the true <-> or ranging urge hr
15: were north as e bag <-> jr era be gun front
15: why long gyro blue <-> july battle boy hr
17: were e be for rayburn <-> jr errors been lo he a

I think there are word lists that include parts of speech, so if anyone has a matrix that tells the likelihood of one part of speech following another, I can try incorporating that too. Or if anyone has another, better word list....

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:07 pm UTC
by Yakk
But virgin for, her gun art. Bar hair, else bag.
Oh give tv: as be urethane. Gone unvery, front.

... missing something. @_@

Re: Encoded or not?

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:48 pm UTC
by GlowstoneLove2
A search through the M0O dictionary gives these results: (4-letter and longer), the shifts with impolite/bad words taken out(Those are in a list at the end):

1:
adder → beefs, adds → beet, aneer → boffs, anteed → bouffe, ants → bout, char → dibs, cheer → diffs, czar → dabs, deer → effs, gnar → hobs, inch → jodi, inks → jolt, izar → jabs, izod → jape, knar → lobs, nand → oboe, odds → peet, ohms → pint, shads → tibet, sheer → tiffs, sneer → toffs, star → tubs, steeds → tuffet, steer → tuffs

2:
bylaw → dancy, caps → ecru, osmic → quoke, pyic → rake, pyle → rang, slag → unci, slam → unco, spec → urge, typy → vara, wyle → yang

3:
Alex → doha, arab → dude, axal → dado, baal → eddo, cobb → free, cloy → forb, cold → frog, colt → frow, cobra → freud, crop → furs, dolls → groov, dolt → grow, doxy → grab, drab → gude, drip → guls, elba → hoed, ella → hood, folk → iron, glib → jole, grab → Jude, groov → jurry, milt → prow, mola → prod, mold → prog, molt → prow, olla → rood, oreo → ruhr, pelt → show, peri → shul, perk → shun, pily → slob, pixy → slab, ploy → sorb, primero → sulphur, proa → surd, roar → urdu, teloi → whorl

4:
alkyd → epoch, banjo → ferns, bejan → finer, capo → gets, ceil → gimp, dana → here, danio → herms, dank → hero, dawn → hear, dena → hire, fang → jerk, faze → jedi, gail → kemp, gale → kepi, ganja → kerne, ganjah → kernel, gear → kiev, hack → lego, hare → levi, hark → levo, heil → limp, hera → live, hewn → liar, lallan → pepper, lane → peri, lang → perk, lawn → pear, lean → pier, leanna → pierre, lela → pipe, loop → psst, luna → pyre, lutea → pyxie, okeh → soil, opal → step, open → stir, pane → teri, pawn → tear, pawp → teat, pean → tier, pecan → tiger, pele → tipi, pena → tire, pull → typp, puna → tyre, punk → tyro, ratan → vexer, salp → wept, sana → were, sawn → wear, sera → wive, swop → wast, taney → xeric, three → xlvii, what → Alex, yank → cero

5:
admin → firns, aped → fuji, avon → fats, azon → fets, azov → feta, djin → ions, fido → knit, fizz → knee, fizzy → kneed, nidi → snin, odin → tins, ordo → twit

6:
ache → gink, ahull → gnarr, ails → gory, alohas → grungy, boff → hull, boffs → hully, bogy → hume, bolls → hurry, bomb → hush, bombyx → hushed, bono → hutu, boys → huey, buff → hall, buffi → hallo, bulls → harry, buts → hazy, butyl → hazer, chain → ingot, clem → irks, diffs → jolly, dodo → juju, doha → jung, dols → jury, dolls → jurry, eche → kink, finn → lott, foam → lugs, fohn → lunt, fils → lory, fills → lorry, filly → lorre, fumy → lase, fulls → larry, fusion → layout, gies → moky, ginny → motte, goff → mull, golly → murre, guff → mall, gulf → marl, gulfs → marly, gulls → marry, gummy → masse, gunny → matte, guts → mazy, hoff → null, huic → naoi, hully → narre, hymn → nest, jiff → poll, jimmy → posse, jinni → potto, jinns → potty, john → punt, johns → punty, limy → rose, linum → rotas, liny → rote, lion → rout, loam → rugs, loch → ruin, lome → rusk, luau → raga, luffs → rally, luny → rate, mills → sorry, mini → soto, mocha → suing, molas → surgy, moly → sure, much → sain, muff → sall, muffs → sally, mulch → sarin, mule → sark, mumm → sass, mumms → sassy, munch → satin, nill → torr, nils → tory, nisi → toyo, noggs → tummy, nome → tusk, nulls → tarry, nutty → tazze, oafs → ugly, oxim → udos, piny → vote, puis → vary, pulpy → varve, quay → wage, quey → wake, sync → yeti, vila → borg, vile → bork, viola → bourg, vitim → bozos, wich → coin, wile → cork, wiles → corky, wiliwili → corocoro, wily → core, winy → cote, wisiny → coyote, wits → cozy, wolf → curl, wolfs → curly, womb → cush, wombs → cushy

7:
abet → hila, ahem → holt, aneer → hully, aril → hyps, atma → hath, beer → illy, cheer → jolly, halt → ohsa, hotel → ovals, html → oats, ibex → pile, inkier → purply, lane → shul, lang → shun, later → shaly, latex → shale, ling → spun, link → spur, manful → thumbs, oxter → vealy, phew → wold, prex → wyle, tahr → ahoy, tenet → alula, timer → aptly, unfiber → bumpily, what → doha, whee → doll, wheel → dolls, whir → dopy, whit → dopa, yeti → flap, zebu → glib

8:
baff → jinn, batt → jibb, calk → kits, cans → kiva, dads → lila, daff → linn, dawk → lies, egad → moil, eses → mama, gowk → owes, haes → pima, hals → pita, haul → pict, hawk → pies, kaes → sima, kans → siva, khan → spiv, loads → twila, loaf → twin, scans → akiva, seas → amia, setal → ambit, sims → aqua, skua → asci, sulk → acts, talk → bits, tall → bitt, task → bias, tsars → baiza, weal → emit, vans → diva

9:
Alex → Jung, berg → knap, brie → karn, creep → Lanny, crib → lark, drib → mark, drip → mary, elds → numb, fire → oran, fuze → odin, gird → pram, girl → prau, ilex → rung, jerky → snath, river → arena, silk → brut, sire → bran, sirs → brab, sirup → Brady, size → brin, sleep → bunny, slip → bury, spic → byrl, spiv → byre, sris → barb, trig → carp, trip → cary, tyre → chan, wiver → frena, xeric → gnar

10:
aden → knox, audi → Kens, beef → loop, budded → Lennon, byte → lido, cebu → mole, cede → mono, cedi → mons, cubed → melon, deed → noon, duly → nevi, dumbo → newly, etui → odes, feed → poon, feet → pood, fUji → pets, Herod → Robyn, hesse → rocco, huff → repp, idem → snow, jeed → toon, jedi → tons, jehu → tore, meet → wood, muumuu → weewee, peed → zoon, pyre → zibo, redo → bony, reed → boon, ruddi → benny, secco → commy, seed → coon, semi → cows, sewed → cogon, tout → dyed, uredo → ebony, weed → goon, weet → good, were → gobo, whew → grog, zebu → jole

11:
dash → olds, drips → octad, eats → pled, Edda → pool, etch → pens, Etta → peel, hade → slop, hats → sled, hide → stop, hint → stye, hints → styed, itch → tens, paid → alto, path → ales, pets → aped, pith → ates, rads → clod, raphe → clasp, raps → clad, spat → dale, spats → daled, spit → date, spits → dated, splits → dawted, spot → daze, spots → dazed, stun → defy, then → espy, trips → ectad, vats → gled

12:
ambo → myna, boas → name, bods → nape, cagy → omsk, cuss → ogee, dido → pupa, didos → pupae, dirum → pudgy, dobro → panda, dodo → papa, doff → parr, dogs → pase, fibs → rune, figs → ruse, firm → rudy, firs → rude, fogs → rase, fons → raze, foys → rake, gassy → smeek, gids → supe, gift → surf, gish → suet, goad → samp, goas → same, gobs → sane, goby → sank, goys → sake, gmys → skye, hips → tube, hodi → tapu, hods → tape, hogg → tass, hoggs → tasse, hoys → take, jobs → vane, jogs → vase, koas → wame, kors → wade, mott → yaff, pitt → buff, pogy → bask, pops → babe, psst → beef, ribs → dune, rids → dupe, riff → durr, rigs → duse, road → damp, roth → daft, sachs → emote, shog → etas, smog → eyas, soil → eaux, tins → fuze, tons → faze, torc → fado, tors → fade, torus → fadge, toys → fake, umps → gybe, ussr → geed, zibo → luna, zips → lube

13:
abjurer → nowhere, anil → navy, Ares → nerf, balk → onyx, barf → ones, becuna → orphan, been → orra, cerf → pres, chan → puna, chat → pung, chef → purs, cheer → purre, cheery → purrel, Cheryl → purely, clerk → Pyrex, craal → penny, crag → pent, creel → Perry, dhoon → qubba, ebbs → roof, Ebola → Robyn, envy → rail, erin → reva, erne → rear, errs → reef, farre → sneer, Farrel → sneery, flap → sync, frag → sent, frere → serer, gena → tran, ghat → tung, gnarl → taney, gnat → tang, green → terra, greeny → terral, hern → urea, Iraq → vend, Junes → wharf, Jung → what, jura → when

As you notice, the 3-shift has doxy → grab → Jude, and dolls → groov → jurry.
The 4-shift and the 6-shift have the most.
The 8-shift has alot of 4-letter pairs, a few 5-letter pairs, and no 6-letter pairs. Same with the 12-shift.
The 13-shift has a reversal pair: gnat → tang.

The triplets are here:
aped → pets → fuji
chan → puna → tyre
lane → shul → peri
lang → shun → perk
flap → snyc → yeti
eaux → okeh → soil
foys → pyic → rake
psst → loop → beef
glib → jole → zebu
drip → guls → Mary
doxy → grab → Jude
Alex → doha → Jung → what
ebola → herod → robyn
farre → sneer → toffs
gnarl → taney → xeric
aneer → boffs → hully → narre
cheer → diffs → jolly → purre [Just the first letter increased by 2 and the second letter by 20]
dolls → groov → jurry → wheel

The ones that were left out, because they contain a word that can be bad:
Anna → boob(1) and touch → fagot(12)

The shifts ranked on how many pairs, from least to most:
4-letter: 2,5,1,7,11,9,13,8,10,3,4,12,6
5-letter: 2,5,3,8,1,11,12,9,7,10,13,4,6
6-letter: 3,12,5,2,8,9,11,7,1,10,4,6,13