Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Apparently, people like to eat.

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Chaz
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Chaz » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:03 pm UTC

Dream wrote:Balance is the opposite of what IPA actually means

I'd disagree. They're not very one dimensional beers. In any I've ever tried from both sides of the pond, there's a fairly balanced malty sweetness and backbone with the hops. Sure, they're quite hoppy and cover up more of the malt when compared to say a pale ale or bitter, but they're not so overpowering the malt to the degree it's practically non-existent where you're drinking liquid hops, unlike in some Imperial IPAs.

While I haven't tried any of the beers listed as Imperial IPA, from the
descriptions they sound exactly like what I described: very alcoholic,
particularly bitter IPA. But still IPA.

An Imperial IPA is often described as tasting liquid hops, it's not just a bigger standard IPA. They can be fairly bitter, or not, and that's often offset by sweetness so it's not seemingly bitter often. Much of the time, Imperial IPA is
more about last minute flavor/aroma and dry hop additions and less about bitterness. It's about capturing and highlighting the flavor of the hops and making it way over the top hoppy. These are also very easy drinking beers, not sippers like other high alcohol styles tend to be, such as barley wine.

The amount of hops in an Imperial IPA makes a regular IPA look like a Pale Ale or Bitter.

Most "export" and "foreign" stouts are more than similar enough to be in the same category.

Which is why they're in the stout style category...

Overall, I wonder how narrowly you define these categories.

I don't really, beyond historical and regional styles and the common naming conventions used among the majority of brewers. I brew myself.

To me, every style of beer has a very broad definition, in order to include the vastly different
expressions possible with the very same ingredients and processes.

And I don't disagree.

If you dump a load of hops into an IPA brew and ferment it out to total dryness, it's going
to have a very particular flavour. However, it will most likely be recognisably
IPA style, and certainly so when compared to other styles.

Yes?

You, and the BJCP seem to have categories the way the Grammys have categories. Everyone who's
just a little different gets their own special niche, because otherwise it just
wouldn't be fair.

I guess? I mean, when I taste a British IPA and an American one they're both IPA, but there's clear and distinct differences, enough to warrant a substyle name.

To compare it to music, since we all loooovvvveeee the Grammys, we'll say Rock Music is Ale.
Within rock music there's the sub genre Heavy Metal, or we'll say BJCP's India Pale Ale category.

Now within Heavy Metal there's quite a few substyles, traditional metal bands, say your Iron Maiden and Judas Priest (English IPA), there's thrash bands like Metallica and Megadeth (American IPA), and there's death metal bands like Cannibal Corpse which took influences from the other bands and created music in a more extreme way (Imperial IPA). All three styles of metal or beer are uniquely different in their own right, yet they're all recognizably the same style at the core, Heavy Metal and IPA.

While the BJCP might not give you a broad definition of what an IPA is, they instead break it up into substyles based on traditional and regional differences, help define the differences and give current commercial examples of the style from which you should be able to figure out what the overall style exactly is about.

Also, If you look at each individual substyle, there's a broad range of gravities, IBUs, colors, etc., thse are reflecting traditional and current commercial examples of the style. They're meant to be descriptive of current and traditional trends where if you were to go to the store and buy a bunch of beer in those styles, most all would probably fall into those ranges or very close, not proscriptive rules you have to follow to fit in the style.

You can take an IPA, ferment it out to total dryness and dump a ton of hops in it, and it will probably recognizably taste like an IPA as you said, and it will probably be one, but it might not typify what the average beer labeled an IPA will probably be like. The guidelines are very general guidelines, they're not saying if you're outside them you don't fit in, the guidelines themselves also evolve with the times. What people were brewing and calling an IPA 25 years ago is different than what it is now.

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby CorranH » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:40 am UTC

Okay, I'm pretty new to beer, but I think I'm coming along nicely. Actually, for the longest time, I'd never had a shitty beer. My friend started me off right, and though it took some getting used to at first (definitely an acquired taste), I'm now a big fan of dark beers. About a week ago, I finally figured that I shouldn't shit-talk 'crappy beer' if I didn't actually know what I was talking about. So I tried a Busch.

. . . wow. I could barely finish it. Anyway, I live in central California, and these are some of my favorites:

Stone Brewing Company:
Arrogant Bastard - My first experience with Stone, and wow.
Oaked Arrogant Bastard - Pretty pricey, at almost sixteen dollars for a six-pack, but holy crap is it delicious.
Smoked Porter - Mellower than an Arrogant Bastard, and very good. Kind of depends on what kind of mood I'm in.

New Belgium:
Fat Tire - This is one of my friend's favorite beers, and I finally tried it a couple weeks ago, and was dutifully impressed. And then I discovered . . .
1554 - WOW. I think this might be my new favorite beer. I just tried it for the first time a couple nights ago, and it was love at first sip.

Pete's Brewing Company:
Pete's Wicked Ale - I don't think this has been mentioned yet. It's an ale with a delicious ruby finish; probably my second favorite beer.
Pete's Strawberry Blond - As the name would imply, this is a light beer - lager, I think? When I first tried this I preferred it over Pete's Wicked Ale, but as I grew more accustomed to dark beers, this one was left in the dust. Still a good beer, though.

Oh, and I love Guinness, but it's really only good on tap. Oh, and a great combo - a 1554 followed by a Pete's Wicked Ale. After an 'enlightened black ale', the ruby finish on a Pete's tastes amazing; almost sweet - but in a good way.
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Dream » Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:12 am UTC

Chaz wrote:You can take an IPA, ferment it out to total dryness and dump a ton of hops in it, and it will probably recognizably taste like an IPA as you said, and it will probably be one, but it might not typify what the average beer labeled an IPA will probably be like. The guidelines are very general guidelines, they're not saying if you're outside them you don't fit in, the guidelines themselves also evolve with the times. What people were brewing and calling an IPA 25 years ago is different than what it is now.

With this, I agree completely. I think our little disagreement is purely semantic. I like to categorise along similarities, and you and the BJCP like to do so along differences. I highly doubt we would ever disagree over where a particular beer should be placed, just over how specific that placement should be.

And the Grammy thing was a bit below the belt. No matter how much the BJCP might sub-sub-sub categorise, they're never going to reach the heady heights of Best Vocal and Zither Performance By A Heavy/Black Metal Group Or Artist Who Lost A Member To Drug Abuse In The Previous 12 Months. Or whatever they're shitting out Grammys for these days.

Also, I would never call IPA one dimensional. It's one of my favourite styles. I'm only picky about it because there's a lot of crap out there with the letters IPA on the bottle that make me cringe when I think about what they're doing to the style's reputation.
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Chaz » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:33 am UTC

Dream wrote:I think our little disagreement is purely semantic. I like to categorise along similarities, and you and the BJCP like to do so along differences. I highly doubt we would ever disagree over where a particular beer should be placed, just over how specific that placement should be.

Aye, aye. I generally won't name a beer style beyond the broad category when I'm talking about a beer, or get snobby if someone doesn't call something by it's BJCP substyle name too haha.

CorranH wrote:Anyway, I live in central California, and these are some of my favorites:

Man, you didn't even list any brews from around your area! So many great beers in the Bay Area up to Santa Rosa, it's quite the awesome beer scene. Russian River, 21st Amendment, Moonlight, Drake's, Firestone Walker, among many others...
If you can find some Alesmith in your area at BevMo or wherever, buy as much as you can. Awesome stuff, probably one of my favorite breweries, it's San Diego though, not exactly central CA. I really wish they distributed outside Cali though...

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Beer.

Postby Saturn » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:55 am UTC

I don't like it. Clearly an acquired taste. Hurts my stomach. Just pulls down on my stomach after the first sip, and it's all downhill from there. I like hard liquor, though...


Do you like it?

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Re: Beer.

Postby John O))) » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:40 am UTC

Not at all. The first time I had beer I wanted to throw up.


Liquor on the other hand, is great. I love trying new kinds as well.


Oddly enough however, I've never been drunk in my life.

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Re: Beer.

Postby Sparv » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:50 am UTC

I love it. I'm glad i have German and Belgian friends.
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Re: Beer.

Postby Irrefutable » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:56 am UTC

Unfortunatly there is a 7 page threadanaught about 5 threads down on the merits of said beverage.

However beer is awsome, just an aquired taste
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Account20151023 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:10 pm UTC

I used to hate beer. Any port in a storm, I said.

Then one day I had a Blue Moon with an orange.

Ever since, I've been trying any type I've never seen before. Microbrews, typically. Right now, my favorite is Lienenkugel (blueberry wheat beer), follwed immediately by flying dog and magic hat. I'm a weird case, though, I like Imperial Stouts and Wheat beers above all others, even though they're pretty much opposites. Oh yeah, and India Pale Ales. Long Hammer especially (the Red Hook type).

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby MotorToad » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:45 pm UTC

BomanTheBear wrote:... Right now, my favorite is Lienenkugel (blueberry wheat beer)...
Amazing. My brother bought me a 12-pack mixer of lungerstrudel for xmas a couple years back. If I had the choice between this and Tsing Tao, I'd buy Natural Light. At twice the price. Not faulting you for your taste but as far as beer goes, this isn't it. It tasted to me like one of those mass-produced "premiums" (Killian's or Amber Bock) with Jolly Ranchers or something in it.

There is the possibility that this had been "skunked," but it was so awful I'm afraid to give it a second chance.
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Amarantha » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:42 am UTC

I just had a Murray's Grand Cru. It's an Australian craft brewer's version of a mid-strength (8.8%) Belgian ale. It was very nice :) Quite hoppy, but with loads of malt for balance, and fairly nutty. Soon I'm off to trivia night at the local pub, which has a pretty crappy beer selection. Maybe I should have a Grand Ridge Moonshine before I go; then I won't need any pub beer. Might suck at the trivia though :wink:
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Account20151023 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:29 pm UTC

MotorToad wrote:
BomanTheBear wrote:... Right now, my favorite is Lienenkugel (blueberry wheat beer)...
Amazing. My brother bought me a 12-pack mixer of lungerstrudel for xmas a couple years back. If I had the choice between this and Tsing Tao, I'd buy Natural Light. At twice the price. Not faulting you for your taste but as far as beer goes, this isn't it. It tasted to me like one of those mass-produced "premiums" (Killian's or Amber Bock) with Jolly Ranchers or something in it.

There is the possibility that this had been "skunked," but it was so awful I'm afraid to give it a second chance.


I will say, it does taste a little bit like fruity pebbles. See if you can get your hands on their summer shandy. It's a lemonade lager, which may not sound appetizing, but is amazingly refreshing without being nearly as sweet.

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Heisenberg » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:48 pm UTC

Does anyone know why the taste of beer is affected by cyclical heating and cooling?

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby 22/7 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:02 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:Does anyone know why the taste of beer is affected by cyclical heating and cooling?

I don't, but I have noticed that with good and crappy beers alike. Bottles and cans, as well.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Heisenberg » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:08 pm UTC

Ah, wikipedia. You are great, but sometimes I wonder if you are lying to me...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunked_be ... truck_beer

According to this, it's sunlight that affects beer negatively. And Miller High Life is unskunkable, which is unsurprising if you've ever compared High Life to actual beer.

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:19 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:Does anyone know why the taste of beer is affected by cyclical heating and cooling?

Eh, it's not just beer. Throwing out the obvious answer of "Milk", other fluids are affected by being heated and cooled multiple times before finally being enjoyed.

Coffee, for one.. it's never the same if you try to warm it up again. Any sort of soft drink I've had, if it's warmed and cooled a half-dozen times, it ends up being... odd. Though I've never noticed the problem in fruit juice...
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:25 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:Ah, wikipedia. You are great, but sometimes I wonder if you are lying to me...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunked_be ... truck_beer

According to this, it's sunlight that affects beer negatively. And Miller High Life is unskunkable, which is unsurprising if you've ever compared High Life to actual beer.

That is because it is the champagne of beers.

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:32 pm UTC

Shampaggnan, maybe.
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby mosc » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:06 pm UTC

The champagne of beers is Duvel. Maybe not by slogan but by most other means of simile (analogy?)...
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby MotorToad » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:17 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:Ah, wikipedia. You are great, but sometimes I wonder if you are lying to me...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunked_be ... truck_beer

According to this, it's sunlight that affects beer negatively. And Miller High Life is unskunkable, which is unsurprising if you've ever compared High Life to actual beer.

Notice it's "hop extract" and not hops in the beer. Most anyone who cares about beer will bottle it in brown bottles (or can it, as discussed). Beer that is 12-packed in boxes is a lot better off, too.
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Account20151023 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:24 pm UTC

mosc wrote:The champagne of beers is Duvel. Maybe not by slogan but by most other means of simile (analogy?)...


And Miller High Life is the shampoo of beers.

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby mosc » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:49 pm UTC

There's actually a new micro-brewery out in Minnesota (Surly) which uses cans exclusively. They have a whole rant on why bottles are not really better, they're just the industry's way of selling you glass which costs more than aluminum.

Their argument is pretty convincing if you've tried their beer... amazing stuff.
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Heisenberg » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:30 pm UTC

mosc wrote:There's actually a new micro-brewery out in Minnesota (Surly) which uses cans exclusively. They have a whole rant on why bottles are not really better, they're just the industry's way of selling you glass which costs more than aluminum.

Their argument is pretty convincing if you've tried their beer... amazing stuff.


Also, the recyclability of aluminum is far superior to glass. You can get something like 95% of an aluminum can into another aluminum can, but glass is less than 50%, and usually not back into bottles.

I have heard that companies used bottles when cans were made of tin, because tin imparts a taste to the beverage. So it became classy to drink from a glass bottle, which does not impart a taste. Aluminum began being used after its cost went down to a reasonable level. Aluminum does not impart a taste to the beverage, but is still looked down upon by certain beer drinkers.

Generally, I just buy whichever's cheaper. :)

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Dream » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:23 am UTC

The champagne of beers is clearly Kasteel Cru, as it is made with champagne yeast and has a very similar level of carbonation, colour and you can taste the white wine notes in it. Wonderful stuff.

As for bottles and cans, bottles are by far the older method of packaging, so they've always been the traditional, "right" way to do it. I haven't been drinking long enough to really know if tin or older aluminium cans impart any flavour, though I assume it is true as it makes perfect sense.

Bottles may take more energy to recycle for less return, but unlike cans they can be reused. One of the big German wheat beers does this, Schneider if I remember correctly. I always smile when I get a worn old bottle with a pair of scratched white rings around it, telling me how often it's been used. It is very possible and easily doable, as it used to be the rule rather than the exception. It uses empty truck space for the return journey, and so does not add carbon expenditure. In health and safety terms, it is the same process that casks and kegs go through at the moment without any troubles. So I will always be a bottle supporter, and accuse companies and distributors of doing it wrong. It is so simple and sensible that it angers me every time I think about it. And that's before even getting in to recycling glass into other useful roles than packaging or construction, where quality grades can be much lower...
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:48 am UTC

I say the Champagne of beers is Utopias, as the default for beer is to be carbonated.
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby 22/7 » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:41 pm UTC

Had the Tremens the other night. Ugh, so good. How much does a 6 (ok, let's be realistic, 1 or 4) pack of that stuff cost?
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Azrael » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:44 pm UTC

I've only seen the 22(ish) oz bottles in the $9-12 range.

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby 22/7 » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:40 pm UTC

Azrael wrote:I've only seen the 22(ish) oz bottles in the $9-12 range.

Damn. It cost like $9 at the bar. I'd better get to looking.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Amarantha » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:53 am UTC

Imo the champagne of beers is lambic :)
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby 22/7 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:07 pm UTC

Amarantha wrote:Imo the champagne of beers is lambic :)

No, that's the fruit juice of beers. Or it's just fruit juice, I can't remember which.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:41 pm UTC

Necastle Brown Ale, It ain't called the one and only for now't you know.
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Amarantha » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:00 am UTC

Newkie Brown holds a special place in my heart as the beer that first made me like beer :)

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby GMontag » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:05 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:
Amarantha wrote:Imo the champagne of beers is lambic :)

No, that's the fruit juice of beers. Or it's just fruit juice, I can't remember which.


Lambics don't necessarily have any fruit juice in them at all. Lambic just means naturally fermented. If you can find some, I suggest you try a Gueze lambic. Its an unsweetened lambic. It comes out like a Flemish sour beer.

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby 22/7 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:19 pm UTC

GMontag wrote:
22/7 wrote:
Amarantha wrote:Imo the champagne of beers is lambic :)

No, that's the fruit juice of beers. Or it's just fruit juice, I can't remember which.


Lambics don't necessarily have any fruit juice in them at all. Lambic just means naturally fermented. If you can find some, I suggest you try a Gueze lambic. Its an unsweetened lambic. It comes out like a Flemish sour beer.

I know, and I've had a few non-fruity lambics. Most of the lambics that I've seen are fruit lambics, and it seems like most breweries that do lambics add fruit, for whatever reason.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Chaz » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:30 pm UTC

I wish I could find some Gueze here been craving some since I ran out of my few bottles of Cantillon... Only can find some fruit lambics in these parts... Perhaps I'll try to find some in Portland at the end of the month when I'm down there for the Oregon Brewers Festival.

On the topic of lambics... they make non-fruit but sweet lambics too, I've got a bottle of Lindeman's Faro lying around somewhere.

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hendusoone
Mr. Dreambeard butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts. Butts.
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby hendusoone » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:09 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Azrael wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:
n4ry4 wrote:Also, any Young's Double Chocolate Stout fans here (on tap only for me; waaaay better than can or bottle).

That beer is delicious. I have not had the luxury of finding it on tap, though.

Are you certain?


I've only seen it in the orange and purple cans.

Delicious.
I know this is going back a bit, but it is very worth it.

Asgard. 350 Mass Ave, Cambridge. A short walk from Central. I went there with Meaux, Rbt, and Nougat. They had Young's Double Chocolate Stout on tap. It was DELICIOUS.

The place is otherwise a bit expensive, though.
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby Azrael » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:15 pm UTC

I've spent several on-or-near-to St. Patty's Days at the good ol' Assguard. First place I ever found Boddington's.

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby the_stabbage » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:46 pm UTC

I'm in Ontario and 6 months into being legal drinking age but I'm a big fan of beer!

My go-to beer for a bar that doesn't have anything interesting is Alexander Keith's IPA.

My favorite beers so far are:
Mill Street Tankhouse Ale - deliciously rich and coppery
St. Ambroise Oatmeal Stout - best stout I've had yet, though I haven't had that many. Every time I eat oatmeal cookies it reminds me of this beer!

And of course, when I'm in Quebec I'm apt to pick up some Unibroue beers: Fin du Monde, Trois Pistoles, Maudite. Delicious, 8-9%, and come in corked 750ml bottles. Of course my friends aren't big fans of them so I usually have a big bottle myself, not that I mind. Unibroue also makes a delicious Belgian-style wheat beer, Blanche de Chambly, at the Standard Canadian Alcohol Content of 5%.

---Let's start a survey here. What was the:
-WORST beer you've ever had?
-MOST OUTLANDISH, BIZARRE beer you've ever had?

For me, worst was Sleeman Clear. I try to finish any beer I open, but I got some of this stuff for free and it was unbearable. I actually thought someone urinated in the bottle. The most bizarre was Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier, a German smoked beer. It's the colour of beef jerky, smells like smoked ham/bacon, and tastes like it too! I thought it was fantastic, but everyone in a ten foot radius didn't like the "dog toy" smell emanating from it. Very manly.

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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby MotorToad » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:27 pm UTC

the_stabbage wrote:
---Let's start a survey here. What was the:
-WORST beer you've ever had?
-MOST OUTLANDISH, BIZARRE beer you've ever had?

A quick poll of my remaining cells reveals Tsing Tao as the worst beer I've had that I didn't expect to be horrible.

The strangest beer I've had was a smoked beer, the name of which escapes me, at the Brick Store Pub in Atlanta in March IIRC. It tasted exactly like Gouda cheese. And was almost as solid.
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Re: Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Postby 22/7 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:16 pm UTC

I'm not sure about "most bizarre" beer, but the worst beer I've ever had was Asahi, which was very unfortunate at the time, because I got two of them with my cover charge at a club in Thailand.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!


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