Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

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Pick top 2 systems

Wii-U
10
15%
XBox One
2
3%
PS4
11
17%
Ouya
1
2%
Steambox
6
9%
NVidia Shield
2
3%
PC is the Master Race
34
52%
 
Total votes: 66

KnightExemplar
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Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:08 am UTC

Best console flame war for the Eighth generation! Lets begin.

Not gonna lie: my loyalty has remained strong with Nintendo's Wii-U. The touchscreen pushes the envelope once more, and unlike the Wii generation (which was mostly a gimmick), it really feels like the touchpad brings an elevated level of gameplay to this generation. Strong backwards compatibility (plays all Wii games), no DRM issues like XBox One, strong exclusives.

PS4 is my 2nd pick. As Microsoft shafts over indie developers by killing the XNA project, shafting Valve over by preventing Steam from entering the Windows 8 online store... Sony has welcomed indie studios with open arms. I'm digging the indie exclusives on PS4 (Transistor and Galax-Z in particular). From a hardware perspective, rumor is that the PS4 has 50% more shaders than the XB1 and uses much much faster GDDR5 RAM. With otherwise identical CPUs, the PS4 should have the graphical edge.

Better graphics, better indie support, better disc support, used games support, $100 cheaper... the list is absolutely endless why the PS4 seems superior to XB1 this generation.

Shield looks stupid. Ouya looks interesting, but with Steam and PS4 pushing help for the indie community, I don't think a console like Ouya is "needed" for this generation. Indie studios have plenty of support for now. Steambox is totally vaporware right now, no one seems to have any information on it. PCs are entering a time of confusion, as Steam transitions over to Linux, and developers are starting to be torn from the Windows 8 store. Still, no system will come close to a 7970 or GTX 770 GPU, so PC gamers will remain the most graphically intense.
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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby cphite » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:53 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Best console flame war for the Eighth generation! Lets begin.

Not gonna lie: my loyalty has remained strong with Nintendo's Wii-U. The touchscreen pushes the envelope once more, and unlike the Wii generation (which was mostly a gimmick), it really feels like the touchpad brings an elevated level of gameplay to this generation. Strong backwards compatibility (plays all Wii games), no DRM issues like XBox One, strong exclusives.

PS4 is my 2nd pick. As Microsoft shafts over indie developers by killing the XNA project, shafting Valve over by preventing Steam from entering the Windows 8 online store... Sony has welcomed indie studios with open arms. I'm digging the indie exclusives on PS4 (Transistor and Galax-Z in particular). From a hardware perspective, rumor is that the PS4 has 50% more shaders than the XB1 and uses much much faster GDDR5 RAM. With otherwise identical CPUs, the PS4 should have the graphical edge.

Better graphics, better indie support, better disc support, used games support, $100 cheaper... the list is absolutely endless why the PS4 seems superior to XB1 this generation.

Shield looks stupid. Ouya looks interesting, but with Steam and PS4 pushing help for the indie community, I don't think a console like Ouya is "needed" for this generation. Indie studios have plenty of support for now. Steambox is totally vaporware right now, no one seems to have any information on it. PCs are entering a time of confusion, as Steam transitions over to Linux, and developers are starting to be torn from the Windows 8 store. Still, no system will come close to a 7970 or GTX 770 GPU, so PC gamers will remain the most graphically intense.


I am voting PC because I agree with your last statement - a cutting edge PC will always beat a console, even if for no other reason than that consoles will always be a few steps behind the curve in hardware. And even if you aren't going with the cutting edge, you can build a solid gaming PC for just slightly more than what you'd pay for a console and get the same or better performance.

If I had to choose a console, it'd be the PS4. I don't like what MS is doing with the Xbox in regards to DRM and the online requirements...

You mentioned Steam... really, I don't see the problem. The Steam client works fine on Windows 8, and most games work just fine. The fact that it's not in the slow and clunky Windows store really doesn't bother me; I'd install and use the Steam client even if they offered it in Windows store.

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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby Xenomortis » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:12 pm UTC

PC is the Master Race

Well, duh!
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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby sparkyb » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:18 pm UTC

Breaking news: Microsoft just completely backed down on all those online and sharing/used sales limitations. It may be too little too late to save them from the PS4 eating their lunch, but it narrows the comparison. I think minor spec differences won't really matter that much, and although PS4 is still $100 cheaper, that's basically the cost of bundling the Kinect. Maybe most people won't care about the Kinect and most games won't use it, but I consider it a significant differentiator. I chose XBone over PS4 just because I like the potential of Kinect and because I prefer the Xbox Live ecosystem, although I'm still a bit torn based on the difference in the way they treat indie developers.

As a second choice I chose Steambox. I agree that PCs are more generic than other consoles but they lacked an ecosystem. Steam has pretty much solved that problem and done a great job being a better platform than Xbox and PlayStation. The one thing still lacking is that I still prefer to play in the living room, and so I hope that the Steambox could be that missing piece.

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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:33 pm UTC

So... I've had an Xbox 360 for about 6 years now, and have had it red ring twice on me. I'm actually fine with that; both times the device was replaced in ~2 weeks. Currently, the disc tray only opens when I utter the secret pass code that changes every 10s, but truthfully, I have some loyalty to the little thing (and can force the disc tray open with a paper clip), as it's been my primary method for watching movies and playing games for a while now.

I had a PS3, but I gave it to a friend for reasons entirely unrelated to my enjoyment of the console, so it's really been about 8 years since I've had a Playstation, and that's after coming off PS1 and 2 fandom.

So, truthfully, I dunno. I don't really care that much, and make the decision almost exclusively on what games and developers are out there. Which is why I'm posting;

I've had this conversation with a friend, but was wondering what you all think. I dislike that developers are bound to single consoles, because I think it limits the console wars to actually being a 'game developer war', and I feel this harms us as the consumer, because we don't make decisions entirely predicated on the quality of the hardware. I'll pay for a PS4 if there are games on it I'll enjoy, and I'll do the same for any system; I won't make my decision because one has Blast Processing and the other doesn't. Thoughts?
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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:53 pm UTC

sparkyb wrote:Breaking news: Microsoft just completely backed down on all those online and sharing/used sales limitations. It may be too little too late to save them from the PS4 eating their lunch, but it narrows the comparison. I think minor spec differences won't really matter that much, and although PS4 is still $100 cheaper, that's basically the cost of bundling the Kinect. Maybe most people won't care about the Kinect and most games won't use it, but I consider it a significant differentiator. I chose XBone over PS4 just because I like the potential of Kinect and because I prefer the Xbox Live ecosystem, although I'm still a bit torn based on the difference in the way they treat indie developers.


Uggghhh... my main complaints against the XBox One are now dead. I actually have to look at XBox One's E3 conference now.

I've had this conversation with a friend, but was wondering what you all think. I dislike that developers are bound to single consoles, because I think it limits the console wars to actually being a 'game developer war', and I feel this harms us as the consumer, because we don't make decisions entirely predicated on the quality of the hardware. I'll pay for a PS4 if there are games on it I'll enjoy, and I'll do the same for any system; I won't make my decision because one has Blast Processing and the other doesn't. Thoughts?


A different topic... but I more or less agree with you. On the other hand, I prefer Nintendo's way of doing things. They build the console, and then exploit the console's controls in new and interesting ways. Most of the mini-games on NintendoLand only makes sense with the new Nintendo controller, combined with 4 (backwards compatible) Wii-motes. Its hard to argue against Nintendo being tied to their system... when they are in fact pushing the envelope and teaching us new ways to play games. Animal Crossing and Mario Chase on the WiiU are very fun to play and fully exploit attributes of the WiiU that aren't on other systems. Pikmin3, Super Mario Bros U and Pikmin 3 also seem to push the envelope here. For Microsoft, the Kinect's Dance game is a good example of what I'm talking about.

Part of it too is one company screwing the other one over. A bunch of PS4 Indie games have flat out stated that they _want_ their games to come to the XBox One, but the new policies from Microsoft prevent them from doing so. Only if you officially are recognized by a major publisher can you make games for the XBox One, which indie developers cannot do (by nature of the definition of "indie game", ie: games done outside a major publishing house). PS4 policy has been more open to Indie Developers this generation, and therefore get a bunch of exclusives.

http://indiegameinsider.com/2013/06/10/ ... k-to-sony/
It was announced with the reveal of the Xbox One that Microsoft would no longer be supporting self-published indie games with the release of their new console. Instead, indie developers will have to find a publisher willing to take a risk on their title that will take a cut of their profits in order to release their game on the system, an expense most indie devs can’t afford. This is due to the fact that Microsoft is–for whatever reason–shutting down their indie service and making all downloadable titles part of their Xbox Live Arcade program, which requires a publisher to be a part of. - See more at: http://indiegameinsider.com/2013/06/10/ ... 8ny9s.dpuf


Basically, I agree with you on games like say... Titanfall... which has no excuse to be a XBox One exclusive. (or Forza 5 vs DriveClub. They should be available to both systems). But there are unfortunately plenty of legitimate reasons for console exclusives this generation.

Sucks too. Now PS4 has SuperGiantGame's Transistor as an exclusive title. Which is strange: the XBox 360 had SuperGiantGame's Bastionas an exclusive title... because Microsoft was kinder to Indies in the previous generation. I can't believe Microsoft destroyed their unique position in the marketplace for utterly no reason.
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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby hotaru » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:09 am UTC

sparkyb wrote:Breaking news: Microsoft just completely backed down on all those online and sharing/used sales limitations.

have they backed down on requiring the kinect to be connected? i know microsoft claims that it can be turned off, but microsoft (or anyone who can intercept the connection to xbox live :cough:nsa:cough:) could push an update to the console that turns the kinect on all the time and sends all the data it collects over the internet.

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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:39 am UTC

So make the camera face the wall when you're done using the Xbox, if you're so worried about it :roll: :roll:

I'm pretty critical of the XBox frankly, but I think that "spying" criticism is more or less undeserved. Web Cams, Security Cameras, and Magic Eye attachment cameras have all been abused already. A Kinect Camera can be completely negated by simply turning it around to record the wall when you're done with it.

Even if it is "always on", if its recording the wall, you probably have no privacy issues. If that isn't enough, unplug the XBox One from the wall, lets see the NSA try to hack something that has no power. :roll: Unlike the huge number of other cameras in your life (security cameras, or cameras other people can use without you knowing like Google Glass), the Kinect is a camera that you own and control. If you want privacy from it, you can achieve it extremely easily.
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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby wumpus » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:59 pm UTC

Should Oculus Rift be on the list? It might be just a subset of "the PC is the master race", but it seems to promise a greater "step up" from current state of the art than any other 8th gen listing I see. Price (ignoring GPU issues) seems roughly in the same ballpark as a new console, so I would include it.

After further checking I'm guessing that adding a Nvidia 650 ti (~$125) or a 660 (~$200) will keep the price near a PS4 and Xbox180 respectively. The wii lead the charge of the 7th generation for several years by just updating the controls on a barely updated gamecube. I suspect a massive change in video input an immersion will have an even greater effect on the 8th generation (although more with a hardcore group than the casual wii players).

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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby hotaru » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:48 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:So make the camera face the wall when you're done using the Xbox, if you're so worried about it :roll: :roll:

I'm pretty critical of the XBox frankly, but I think that "spying" criticism is more or less undeserved. Web Cams, Security Cameras, and Magic Eye attachment cameras have all been abused already. A Kinect Camera can be completely negated by simply turning it around to record the wall when you're done with it.

Even if it is "always on", if its recording the wall, you probably have no privacy issues. If that isn't enough, unplug the XBox One from the wall, lets see the NSA try to hack something that has no power. :roll: Unlike the huge number of other cameras in your life (security cameras, or cameras other people can use without you knowing like Google Glass), the Kinect is a camera that you own and control. If you want privacy from it, you can achieve it extremely easily.

i'm more concerned about the inevitable leaking of thousands or millions of photos archived by the nsa of morbidly obese people playing naked video games.

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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:48 am UTC

wumpus wrote:Should Oculus Rift be on the list? It might be just a subset of "the PC is the master race", but it seems to promise a greater "step up" from current state of the art than any other 8th gen listing I see. Price (ignoring GPU issues) seems roughly in the same ballpark as a new console, so I would include it.


PC gamers have always had weird peripherals. The various force-feedback joysticks through the 90s and early 00s for example, Thrustmasters, Racing Wheels, etc. etc. Few games ever really work with them, but thats the good thing about PC, its relatively easy to develop new stuff for. More recently... I bet you that the Leap Motion and Myo Armband are going to have dedicated games for them. But... they will ultimately still be PC games.

There were a few video games I've even played using a MIDI keyboard a long time ago. (I don't remember the name of the game, but it was in MS-DOS... so it had to be old as hell)
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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby EvanED » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:58 pm UTC

I don't have a dog in the fight as I've never owned a console and don't think it's particularly likely that I will in the future. (I will be setting up a gaming PC to hook up to a TV in a few months when I have money finally.) But...
KnightExemplar wrote:I'm pretty critical of the XBox frankly, but I think that "spying" criticism is more or less undeserved. Web Cams, Security Cameras, and Magic Eye attachment cameras have all been abused already.
"Sure, I don't mind if you kick me again! I'm already bruised!"
A Kinect Camera can be completely negated by simply turning it around to record the wall when you're done with it.
Isn't one of the complaints that it has a mic that's always on too? That won't be negated by turning it against the wall, and I would argue is invasive in more important ways than the camera.

If I got an XB One, it would definitely be on a power strip I would turn hard off.

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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby screen317 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:11 pm UTC

The strange thing is that initial responses to criticism regarding the Xb1 DRM was that it was "designed around" this principle, yet now it's so easy to change........

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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:07 pm UTC

screen317 wrote:The strange thing is that initial responses to criticism regarding the Xb1 DRM was that it was "designed around" this principle, yet now it's so easy to change........


The system is 6-months out. Its likely a task that they have farmed out to their developers to fix.

Microsoft deployed 300,000 servers in support of XBox One, a lot of them likely in place to ensure that the XBox One's DRM scheme would hold up. Now they have to sell?? the servers, potentially, or otherwise figure out new uses of them. Beyond that, the system will require a day-one patch to remove the 24-hour checkin. I bet that the patch hasn't been created yet. They probably had to meet with engineering teams to discuss whether or not the software patch would make it out by the launch date.

Its a well known fact that XBox Ones have been coming out of the factories since December of Last Year, with development of test XBoxes as early as December 2011. (Test as in prototypes... not DevKits). I bet you that a team of developers are going to have a rough few months ahead of them... they gotta fix this debacle that management created and then back-tracked on.

The XBox One has been years in the making. The policies that Microsoft made behind the XBox One have been set in place for years. I believe them when they say it won't be an easy switch, but they have to do it to survive this next generation.

Not a good day to be a Microsoft developer / technician, that is for sure.

EDIT: It was Kotaku who broke the story about anti-used games on XBox One. The policy of anti-used games was in place for well over a year, as early as January 2012.
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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby Deviltry » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:33 am UTC

Well there's only two 8th gen consoles - PS4 and xBox One.

One failed hard at start, but shaped to be allright. Except that it still has Kinect. So easy win for PS4.

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Re: Best Eighth Generation Console (PS4 vs XB1 vs WiiU ...)

Postby dii » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:06 am UTC

Sony advocates and utilizes DRM and is a patent troll to boot, so I boycott the playstation.

Xbox one is a spy device made by the NSA front company Microsoft. So that one is right out.

Wii U... well, I can't think of any clever snide remark to make about Wii U... I guess... it's kind of like Wii Rehashed? Anyway, don't have enough room in my living room to flop around with a remote, so this one is out as well. I'm kind of an old school gamer, I like my games as passive, lazy entertainment, where I can just slouch on a couch with a gamepad in hand. Don't try to trick me into excercizing!

I'm fairly excited about Steambox though. Runs Linux and all. Not that I'd buy one, probably, nor do I use Steam, but I'm happy that their existence could bring more attention from hardware manufacturers and better driver support down the line.

Personally, these days my console gaming is limited to whatever I can emulate on my PC. There's some great SNES games that I still haven't played through. Heck, I think console gaming just went downhill after the SNES. After that it was all about the gimmicks and polygon counts. No more about gameplay and snazzy chiptunes.

Back to the Steambox, in many ways, it's bringing the best aspects of the PC world to consoles. It's an open ecosystem, based on a free OS, anyone can build and sell a Steambox, the hardware is not locked, you're free to hack it anyway you like and install whatever OS you want on it if Steam OS isn't enough on you - the Steam client still runs on any other Linux distro so you can get a Steambox and just use it as a general purpose computer. This is very refreshing in a time of locked bootloaders, a time where console manufacturers actually sue users for installing an alternate OS... or modding/hacking their console in any way. So I certainly think it is a welcome development, even if there are problematic aspects - the Steam client is still proprietary, and allows (although doesn't enforce) the use of DRM. So it's a mixed blessing, but overall I think there's much more good than bad about it.


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