Editors

Please compose all posts in Emacs.

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enk
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Re: Editors

Postby enk » Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:51 am UTC

evilbeanfiend wrote:since when was vi easy to close (or ed for that matter)


ZZ (and ZQ in vim) is fast for a touch typist as it doesn't involve the control key.

Of cource, for me, that doesn't matter as my caps lock (which doesn't take much pinky-bendin') functions as control anyway.

Oh, and q in ed.
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Re: Editors

Postby Munksgaard_ » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:10 pm UTC

I actually like nano for editing at the command line, when i'm ssh'ing into my server for example. I think its much more intuitive than emacs/vi(m), and i like the fact that i can see all shortcuts.
All other things: Gedit. It has a nice interface, supports tabs and has syntax colouring. Did i mention its nice to look at (opposed to emacs...)?
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Re: Editors

Postby duaneb » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:38 pm UTC

Ed, the one true unix editor.

http://www.ale.org/archive/ale/ale-1998 ... 00246.html


Other than that, emacs -nw/slime when editing lisp, otherwise TextMate.app.

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Re: Editors

Postby Hurduser » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:05 pm UTC

hendusoone wrote:
d3adf001 wrote:http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ joe takes the cake imo

I am with you on this one. Commands are simple combinations of the ctrl key and letters (none of that crazy :wtf! garbage). There is no strange key combination to press before it will let you enter text. If you need help, just follow the instructions in the top right, and then the help screen stays right there at the top of your terminal as you continue editing your text!

Also, it has some sexy syntax highlighting.


Joe. joe rocks!

However I have grown partial to the FreeDOS editor as well if I just want to take notes during class. It is user-friendly, tiny and has mouse-support. The fact that it runs on a singletasking OS helps in class as well. NOTHING distracts me there.
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Re: Editors

Postby ++$_ » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:08 am UTC

HappySmileMan wrote:
burkelibbey wrote:
++$_ wrote:The only thing I don't like about emacs is confusing C-x 0 and C-x 1, causing me to close the wrong window.

I always think of the 1 in C-x 1 as a laser that kills every other window (makes a lot of sense in a vertical split), and the 0 in C-x 0 as a target that focuses on the current window and kills it.

Oh, and emacs, without a doubt.


When you have to think of an editor in terms of lasers and targets just to make sense of how to close it, that's when I doubt it's efficiency

EDIT: You can't quote someone who's name has a '[' in it apparently
It seems that you can if it's the outermost quote tag. It starts breaking when the quote tags are nested.

Just to make this clear, to close the editor you just type C-x C-c. C-x 1 and C-x 0 are to hide some buffers while keeping others, hence they're more complicated.

Oh, and my name is now fixed :)

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Re: Editors

Postby enk » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:06 am UTC

burkelibbey wrote:
$_0 wrote:The only thing I don't like about emacs is confusing C-x 0 and C-x 1, causing me to close the wrong window.

I always think of the 1 in C-x 1 as a laser that kills every other window (makes a lot of sense in a vertical split), and the 0 in C-x 0 as a target that focuses on the current window and kills it.


I think Vim's keybindings are a lot more intuitive here:

Code: Select all

Emacs       Vim         Vim mnemonic
C-x 1       C-w o       Window Only (i.e. close the others)
C-x 0       C-w c       Window Close


But besides that, I also like to make up my own mnemonics consisting of just what I need to remember that keybinding, with lasers if necessary :)
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Re: Editors

Postby OfficiallyHaphazard » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:33 am UTC

Is TextWrangler so bad?

The only thing I miss is auto-completion of variables, but for the most part, it has all that I need as a text editor.
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Re: Editors

Postby Pobega » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:40 pm UTC

I like Vim. I've growed accustomed to it's quirks, and I've adapted to it's shortcuts. I love how easy it is to get something done in Vim.

I've never been able to use nano for more than one line edits...And Ed I just can't figure out.

Perhaps I'll give Joe a try tonight; Does it have syntax colouring?

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Re: Editors

Postby AntiRush » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:31 pm UTC

I use vim almost exclusively. Lately I've been using Textmate on OS X though and it's not a bad editor.

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Re: Editors

Postby enk » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:15 pm UTC

AntiRush wrote:I use vim almost exclusively. Lately I've been using Textmate on OS X though and it's not a bad editor.


Welcome to the club..!

I'd also like to try TextMate (please, somebody give me a Mac to play with :P )
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Re: Editors

Postby Eps » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:58 am UTC

I use Vi(m). My boss prefers to hit escape-meta-alt-control-shift. We haven't argued about this yet, but he will occasionally make some pointed comment when I "vi whatever.C" to make a few changes to a Root macro. I predict that he will refuse to sign off on my thesis unless I switch to Emacs. Maybe.

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Re: Editors

Postby sethicus » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:17 am UTC

I use Vim. Vi was pretty useless, and someone suggested i give Vim a shot. It's pretty easy once you know the key commands. Plus, i like to be able to use it from the terminal.
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Re: Editors

Postby darkevilxe » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:32 am UTC

Fuck emacs. Fuck vim.



The one greatest editor is called vile.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Red is for mods, please. Thanks!

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Re: Editors

Postby enk » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:15 am UTC

http://invisible-island.net/vile/ wrote:SYNOPSIS
vile retains the "finger-feel", if you will, of vi, while adding the multiple buffer and multiple window features of emacs and other editors...


Yeah.... I certainly wish Vim had multiple buffers and windows....

ooh... and tabs could be nice, too.
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Re: Editors

Postby evilbeanfiend » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:53 am UTC

given http://xkcd.com/378/ i think you'd best give randall some points hammer :D

Done!
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Re: Editors

Postby Xanthir » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:44 am UTC

HappySmileMan wrote:Microsoft Windows Notepad (Ultimate edition 2007)

Honestly, I use Notepad. Unless I'm editting Lisp, in which case I need an IDE to keep track of my parens.
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Re: Editors

Postby Zak » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:52 am UTC

Binary all the way


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Re: Editors

Postby enk » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:00 pm UTC

Xanthir wrote:
HappySmileMan wrote:Microsoft Windows Notepad (Ultimate edition 2007)

Honestly, I use Notepad.


If you like it simple, you could use Notepad2, which looks like Notepad when the toolbar and line numbering is hidden. And no one's forcing you to use syntax highlighting. It's not a big program and only edits one file at a time. It's still a massive improvement, and it will feel natural to you. Even if you're not into experimenting, who knows, maybe you'll find one new feature you like?
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Re: Editors

Postby creativename » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:52 am UTC

I used to use Vim, but honestly modal editing and a short attention span don't mix well. Even though all modern versions of vi clearly indicate what mode they're in, I'd just rather not think about it at all.

I've used GNU nano, Joe's Own Editor, and GNU Emacs as well. GNU nano is a little lacking on features. Joe's Own Editor is a pretty good editor, nice and small too, but it has no GUI version and can be difficult to customize. Emacs is full featured, customizable, GUI/CLI, widely ported, and all around a good editor. It's a good thing it's customizable, because the default configuration of Emacs is unusable (especially when coding). Of course, Emacs has a lot of bloat. Some things like a built-in calculator are fine, but really, a text editor doesn't need to be able to read mail or play Tetris.

In general, I'll use Emacs or JOE for serious editing, and whatever GUI editor that comes with the desktop environment for the quick stuff.
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Re: Editors

Postby enk » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:54 pm UTC

creativename wrote:I used to use Vim, but honestly modal editing and a short attention span don't mix well. Even though all modern versions of vi clearly indicate what mode they're in, I'd just rather not think about it at all.


While I respect your choice, the "real" way to use modal editing is to always be in normal mode except for the short periods of time, where you're typing. It's kinda hard to learn when you're used to non-modal (well, single-modal, actually), but it's much faster in the long run.
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Re: Editors

Postby creativename » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:04 am UTC

enk wrote:While I respect your choice, the "real" way to use modal editing is to always be in normal mode except for the short periods of time, where you're typing. It's kinda hard to learn when you're used to non-modal (well, single-modal, actually), but it's much faster in the long run.

Well, the problem I have with that is I really don't think that way while I'm editing. I tend to insert text, delete text, and move the cursor around fairly spontaneously and in rather short intervals. It's tough to keep the mentality that inserting text is a different mode than otherwise altering the document, and when using Vi(m) I have to force myself to think that way. It's especially bad when I'm making lots of small modifications to a document, and I have to keep entering and exiting insert mode.

I have no doubt that Vi(m) is faster than Emacs for those whom Vi(m) clicks for, but I'm not one of those people.
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Re: Editors

Postby enk » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:19 pm UTC

creativename wrote:Well, the problem I have with that is I really don't think that way while I'm editing. I tend to insert text, delete text, and move the cursor around fairly spontaneously and in rather short intervals. It's tough to keep the mentality that inserting text is a different mode than otherwise altering the document, and when using Vi(m) I have to force myself to think that way. It's especially bad when I'm making lots of small modifications to a document, and I have to keep entering and exiting insert mode.


It's ironic, because what you mention is exactly what I find Vim excels at. If I'm just chatting or typing here, I can do without Vim, although I sometimes use it through a Firefox extension.

You mention that you have to force yourself to think "that way", and I can see that's a problem. I only got fast at it when I stopped thinking (and that took some time). It almost requires that you're a touch typist. If not, learn it don't bother :wink:
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Re: Editors

Postby ash.gti » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:19 pm UTC

TextMate

Writing and editing your own bundles is great for added and customized support.
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Re: Editors

Postby Dingbats » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:39 pm UTC

Wow, it feels like I'm the only one I've ever heard of that didn't have any problems learning Vim. I just followed the tutorial for a few hours, and practiced for a few days and that was it. Well, I still don't know all of it of course, but I've never found it hard to grasp or anything.

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Re: Editors

Postby enk » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:29 pm UTC

Dingbats wrote:Wow, it feels like I'm the only one I've ever heard of that didn't have any problems learning Vim. I just followed the tutorial for a few hours, and practiced for a few days and that was it. Well, I still don't know all of it of course, but I've never found it hard to grasp or anything.


That makes me wonder how well you use it. Most people could learn to use it like a regular editor where you just press "i" and escape once in a while. And some do; I was once asked by a vim user "if there was an easy way to duplicate a line" *elitist cringe*

But since you did the tutorial, I guess you're better than that :) Still, here's a good indicator: Which text objects do you use and how often?
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Re: Editors

Postby Dingbats » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:37 am UTC

enk wrote:But since you did the tutorial, I guess you're better than that :) Still, here's a good indicator: Which text objects do you use and how often?

I move by characters, words and sentences all the time, though I suspect I use hjkl to move around a little more than necessary. daw, daW, dap, das, are the only ways to delete words, paragraphs and sentences that make sense. I only use visual mode when it would take more effort counting how many words/characters/whatever I want to delete than just highlighting them and pressing x. I'm only in insert mode when I'm actually typing, because it feels "safer" to be in normal mode, like my text is protected from accidental insertion of text.

I'm not that good at it. I don't know any examples off hand, but I know there are some things that I normally do in ways that aren't as efficient as they could.

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Re: Editors

Postby Mortabis » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:29 am UTC

I use Notepad++ on windows, and vim/gvim on linux. Occaisonally I use plain old notepad...it's probably the most lightweight thing out there for windows. But I rarely use it for programming. I'd say at least 90% of the time I use vim.

I don't see why people think vim is so terrible. I never use any of the fancy functions. The controls aren't special either.

Press insert to start typing
insert again for replace
Press esc for commands
Enter for newline (duh)
Backspace to delete (also duh)
Delete to delete in front (*another* duh)
w command for save
q command for quit
q! for quit without save
u command for undo

And I've never really used anything else.

emacs just has too many features for me. Sure, built in lisp interpreter is cool, but I don't really like lisp anyways...still can't get over RPN. Bleh. And I started using vim since it's installed on the machines at school (at least the linux ones, obviously the windows ones don't have it)
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Re: Editors

Postby enk » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:45 pm UTC

Dingbats wrote:I move by characters, words and sentences all the time, though I suspect I use hjkl to move around a little more than necessary. daw, daW, dap, das, are the only ways to delete words, paragraphs and sentences that make sense.


Me too. Although, when you're moving with w W b B, you can save a keypress by using dw and dW.

I also use the change command a lot, e.g. ci" ci' cit ciw C cc as well as the "till" command, e.g. ct" yt. dT(.


Dingbats wrote:I only use visual mode when it would take more effort counting how many words/characters/whatever I want to delete than just highlighting them and pressing x.


Me too, again :)

When editing plain text, veeeec (with an appropriate number of es) is very nice.
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Re: Editors

Postby Dingbats » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:54 pm UTC

enk wrote:I also use the change command a lot, e.g. ci" ci' cit ciw C cc as well as the "till" command, e.g. ct" yt. dT(.

I didn't know about "in" (I guess it stands for) and "till"! Cool! :)

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Re: Editors

Postby Xanthir » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:16 pm UTC

enk wrote:
Xanthir wrote:
HappySmileMan wrote:Microsoft Windows Notepad (Ultimate edition 2007)

Honestly, I use Notepad.


If you like it simple, you could use Notepad2, which looks like Notepad when the toolbar and line numbering is hidden. And no one's forcing you to use syntax highlighting. It's not a big program and only edits one file at a time. It's still a massive improvement, and it will feel natural to you. Even if you're not into experimenting, who knows, maybe you'll find one new feature you like?

When I'm on my Linux box I use Kate, which has very wonderful syntax highlighting. I've got nothing *against* it, I just like code editors to be lightweight, and I haven't invested the time in finding me a good one for non-Lisp programming (as noted, I do use an IDE for Lisp, so I have paren matching and immediate access to the REPL).
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Re: Editors

Postby coppro » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:26 am UTC

Xanthir wrote:When I'm on my Linux box I use Kate, which has very wonderful syntax highlighting. I've got nothing *against* it, I just like code editors to be lightweight, and I haven't invested the time in finding me a good one for non-Lisp programming (as noted, I do use an IDE for Lisp, so I have paren matching and immediate access to the REPL).
I use KATE largely because of the built-in terminal... means that I can compile any sort of project without opening another application, be it a Makefile, Jamfile, SConstruct, ant, or any other build system... most IDEs only support one or two. And when things just aren't working, a manpage is always useful.

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Re: Editors

Postby Aperfectring » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:32 am UTC

I use a variety of editors, depending on where I am, and what OS I am using:

1. Windows *shudder* I use TextPad, because I only use Windows at work (damn you ClearCase), and that is the standard for coding in Windows there.
2. Linux at a command prompt, I will use vim. I get annoyed enough with computers on my work network which don't have vim, but have vi (usually the sign of a lab computer that should have been shit-canned many years ago, but for some reason is still in use), that I have created a script called vim (residing in a network mapped drive) which will execute vi if vim doesn't exist on the machine... However, I have been known to use sed for some simple text manipulation before.
3. Linux in the GUI on the local machine: kate. I grew up with kate when it was just a simple text editor which had very basic code highlighting. Now I use it because of two main things: a. embedded terminal and b. arbitrary window splitting, including completely independent browsing through the same file, and browsing through multiple files at once. Think vim's window mode, but graphical.
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Re: Editors

Postby Eschatokyrios » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:02 pm UTC

Used to be that I used vim because I had bothered to learn the very basics of vim and hadn't for emacs. I just picked one at random because I didn't want to learn both, and I was generally in X and using Kate anyway.

Then my CS professor said that we should all use emacs for coding and produced tutorials for emacs and simply never mentioned the possibility of using any other editor for the class. So I gave it a shot and found that I didn't really like the controls, and I missed moving around with hjkl. So, I like vim over emacs.

I do use emacs, because the version my CS class has has a built-in scheme interpretor, and unlike the command line scheme interpretor the emacs one has comand history. So I code in vim and then switch to emacs long enough to load that file and run it in the scheme portion.

And besides that, I cannot stand serious arguments about whether emacs or vim is better. I don't like emacs, I don't use it myself, and that's the end of it. I really don't care which one other people like better.
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Re: Editors

Postby Noughmad » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:42 pm UTC

coppro wrote:I use KATE largely because of the built-in terminal... means that I can compile any sort of project without opening another application, be it a Makefile, Jamfile, SConstruct, ant, or any other build system... most IDEs only support one or two. And when things just aren't working, a manpage is always useful.
KDevelop has a built-in konsole as well.
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Re: Editors

Postby coppro » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:04 pm UTC

Noughmad wrote:
coppro wrote:I use KATE largely because of the built-in terminal... means that I can compile any sort of project without opening another application, be it a Makefile, Jamfile, SConstruct, ant, or any other build system... most IDEs only support one or two. And when things just aren't working, a manpage is always useful.
KDevelop has a built-in konsole as well.
The text editor used by KDevelop is Kate... but personally I don't like IDEs. Possibly a mistake, but usually grep can find me a declaration slightly slower than an IDE would (and if I happen to have a copy of Doxygen output available, then the whole thing is moot anyway). I don't like IDEs generally because they usually require integrated support for a build system/language, so you can't open files from a new language and expect the IDE to be able to handle them. It's a matter of generality, I guess.

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Re: Editors

Postby Stereo » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:12 pm UTC

I use Notepad for straight text content or simple modifications to code.

Textpad in situations where I'd like to work with a larger number of files (often with code in a language I don't have an IDE set up for, or modifying stuff someone else made)
I don't really use most of the features of IDEs, just the tendency toward manipulation of projects specifically designed for the kind of files I want to work with.

On the unix side I stick with vi or nano because I know the basics & they're reasonably standard.
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Re: Editors

Postby Arancaytar » Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:45 pm UTC

jEdit.

Commence pitchforking & stake-burning.

I do use vi on occasion, but only through SSH by necessity. Command-line is nice when you need power over convenience, but it's not the only thing in the world.
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Re: Editors

Postby Aperfectring » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:15 pm UTC

Arancaytar wrote:jEdit.

Commence pitchforking & stake-burning.

I do use vi on occasion, but only through SSH by necessity. Command-line is nice when you need power over convenience, but it's not the only thing in the world.
It is only necessity when you don't use remote X. I use SSH + X + Kate quite often.
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Re: Editors

Postby Arancaytar » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:13 pm UTC

I don't like remote desktops very much because I'm almost always on a slow connection. To me, waiting for a GUI to react is somehow more unpleasant than waiting for a shell.
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Re: Editors

Postby zenten » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:24 pm UTC

Aperfectring wrote:
Arancaytar wrote:jEdit.

Commence pitchforking & stake-burning.

I do use vi on occasion, but only through SSH by necessity. Command-line is nice when you need power over convenience, but it's not the only thing in the world.
It is only necessity when you don't use remote X. I use SSH + X + Kate quite often.


I like headless boxen, where putting X on is just silly and a waste of resources.


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