The Flood versus EVERYTHING

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:07 pm UTC

I'm not saying its impossible, just the logistics of it is nuts.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:51 pm UTC

GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:I do not consider "coolness" When I think about power. Flood in Mecha would be kinda scary(Imagine seeing one of your own machines covered a fleshy mass with tendrils and all what not coming off of it while infection forms spew out of it's once familiar cockpit and all of it's remaining weaponry is unleashed upon you. I think you would shit brix the first few times), but I didn't say it would be the worst thing in the world. Also when you say "Oh well we have armor yay!" The flood do not use just bio/melee weaponry.
Flood on their own can
A) Wield weapons and operate machinery that their host could use/operate
Flood with a gravemind
B) Pretty much use damn most every thing, seeing as the gravemind has the collective knowledge of any organism the flood have infected.
The flood do not purely use biological warfare and can still prevail against armored units IE hmm the Master Chief in powered armor with shielding and he can still die to flood. (I do realize but this is game balance, but still the concept is the same powered armor!= win against the flood)
Also another point about powered armor, shielded armor: The elites had powered/shielded armor along with the brutes and they still were infected and they were a supposedly technologically advanced race.
The flood will fuck your shit up, plain and simple.

And pray tell how biological tentacles can go through a decent chunk of titanium? It's simply impossible without drastic changes to physics and biology. And as such changes would not function in most other universes you then get a universe incompatability problem. Where taking a flood unit and putting it in another universe reduces it's effectiveness almost to the point of not working at all. And vice versa for things from other universes into the halo universe.
B) is also impossible in most universes unless you have the existance of a metaphysical mind of some sort to read.

Include a self-destruct on you units (not a big boom, just a disabling of weaponry and power) or simply make them inpenetrable to the flood in the first place. In order to get through your tank armor they first need a weapon so if you deny them that initial weapon and they're more or less harmless.
Some very low tech weapons are absolutely lethal to the flood. Phosphorus or napalm, anybody? And the high tech stuff is an instant kill.
They are particularily helpless in space battles (due to the difficulty in getting a reasonably intact starship) so they are more or less unable to go from planet to planet without being destroyed en-route.

I am very confused by you arguement for B, the gravemind is literally made from the corpses of his fallen enemies his mind is a collection of all knowledge aquired by any flood he is "linked" with and all of the graveminds are "linked" meaning they already have a immense pool of knowledge. As soon as one of your flood infects one of your foot soldiers every single flood in the universe is going to know how to use the weaponry he knew how to use. I wasn't saying that the initial invasion of power armor was going to be based on biological attack. And if we assume that the flood have a fair amount of covenant soldiers in their ranks your going to have to deal with plasma weaponry that can burn straight through most metals.

Yes it would be a very epic battle and very hard fight for both sides, but its hard to see something that can self res, has a huge disposable army and can learn and adapt very well losing.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby bigglesworth » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:53 pm UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:Yes it would be a very epic battle and very hard fight for both sides, but its hard to see something that can self res, has a huge disposable army and can learn and adapt very well losing.


Sorry, for a minute there I thought you were describing the Necrons.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:58 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:Yes it would be a very epic battle and very hard fight for both sides, but its hard to see something that can self res, has a huge disposable army and can learn and adapt very well losing.


Sorry, for a minute there I thought you were describing the Necrons.

Haha, well Necrons VS Flood would be very very interesting.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:04 pm UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:
GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:I do not consider "coolness" When I think about power. Flood in Mecha would be kinda scary(Imagine seeing one of your own machines covered a fleshy mass with tendrils and all what not coming off of it while infection forms spew out of it's once familiar cockpit and all of it's remaining weaponry is unleashed upon you. I think you would shit brix the first few times), but I didn't say it would be the worst thing in the world. Also when you say "Oh well we have armor yay!" The flood do not use just bio/melee weaponry.
Flood on their own can
A) Wield weapons and operate machinery that their host could use/operate
Flood with a gravemind
B) Pretty much use damn most every thing, seeing as the gravemind has the collective knowledge of any organism the flood have infected.
The flood do not purely use biological warfare and can still prevail against armored units IE hmm the Master Chief in powered armor with shielding and he can still die to flood. (I do realize but this is game balance, but still the concept is the same powered armor!= win against the flood)
Also another point about powered armor, shielded armor: The elites had powered/shielded armor along with the brutes and they still were infected and they were a supposedly technologically advanced race.
The flood will fuck your shit up, plain and simple.

And pray tell how biological tentacles can go through a decent chunk of titanium? It's simply impossible without drastic changes to physics and biology. And as such changes would not function in most other universes you then get a universe incompatability problem. Where taking a flood unit and putting it in another universe reduces it's effectiveness almost to the point of not working at all. And vice versa for things from other universes into the halo universe.
B) is also impossible in most universes unless you have the existance of a metaphysical mind of some sort to read.

Include a self-destruct on you units (not a big boom, just a disabling of weaponry and power) or simply make them inpenetrable to the flood in the first place. In order to get through your tank armor they first need a weapon so if you deny them that initial weapon and they're more or less harmless.
Some very low tech weapons are absolutely lethal to the flood. Phosphorus or napalm, anybody? And the high tech stuff is an instant kill.
They are particularily helpless in space battles (due to the difficulty in getting a reasonably intact starship) so they are more or less unable to go from planet to planet without being destroyed en-route.

I am very confused by you arguement for B, the gravemind is literally made from the corpses of his fallen enemies his mind is a collection of all knowledge aquired by any flood he is "linked" with and all of the graveminds are "linked" meaning they already have a immense pool of knowledge. As soon as one of your flood infects one of your foot soldiers every single flood in the universe is going to know how to use the weaponry he knew how to use. I wasn't saying that the initial invasion of power armor was going to be based on biological attack. And if we assume that the flood have a fair amount of covenant soldiers in their ranks your going to have to deal with plasma weaponry that can burn straight through most metals.

Yes it would be a very epic battle and very hard fight for both sides, but its hard to see something that can self res, has a huge disposable army and can learn and adapt very well losing.

"Huge"? Rather relative. The Imperium of man almost certainly has more men then the flood has creatures (due to using realistic scaling for a galaxy sized empire).

By saying B) is impossible I mean that to put it simply: Brains don't work like that.

Necrons vs. Flood would be a massacre.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:35 pm UTC

GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:
GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:I do not consider "coolness" When I think about power. Flood in Mecha would be kinda scary(Imagine seeing one of your own machines covered a fleshy mass with tendrils and all what not coming off of it while infection forms spew out of it's once familiar cockpit and all of it's remaining weaponry is unleashed upon you. I think you would shit brix the first few times), but I didn't say it would be the worst thing in the world. Also when you say "Oh well we have armor yay!" The flood do not use just bio/melee weaponry.
Flood on their own can
A) Wield weapons and operate machinery that their host could use/operate
Flood with a gravemind
B) Pretty much use damn most every thing, seeing as the gravemind has the collective knowledge of any organism the flood have infected.
The flood do not purely use biological warfare and can still prevail against armored units IE hmm the Master Chief in powered armor with shielding and he can still die to flood. (I do realize but this is game balance, but still the concept is the same powered armor!= win against the flood)
Also another point about powered armor, shielded armor: The elites had powered/shielded armor along with the brutes and they still were infected and they were a supposedly technologically advanced race.
The flood will fuck your shit up, plain and simple.

And pray tell how biological tentacles can go through a decent chunk of titanium? It's simply impossible without drastic changes to physics and biology. And as such changes would not function in most other universes you then get a universe incompatability problem. Where taking a flood unit and putting it in another universe reduces it's effectiveness almost to the point of not working at all. And vice versa for things from other universes into the halo universe.
B) is also impossible in most universes unless you have the existance of a metaphysical mind of some sort to read.

Include a self-destruct on you units (not a big boom, just a disabling of weaponry and power) or simply make them inpenetrable to the flood in the first place. In order to get through your tank armor they first need a weapon so if you deny them that initial weapon and they're more or less harmless.
Some very low tech weapons are absolutely lethal to the flood. Phosphorus or napalm, anybody? And the high tech stuff is an instant kill.
They are particularily helpless in space battles (due to the difficulty in getting a reasonably intact starship) so they are more or less unable to go from planet to planet without being destroyed en-route.

I am very confused by you arguement for B, the gravemind is literally made from the corpses of his fallen enemies his mind is a collection of all knowledge aquired by any flood he is "linked" with and all of the graveminds are "linked" meaning they already have a immense pool of knowledge. As soon as one of your flood infects one of your foot soldiers every single flood in the universe is going to know how to use the weaponry he knew how to use. I wasn't saying that the initial invasion of power armor was going to be based on biological attack. And if we assume that the flood have a fair amount of covenant soldiers in their ranks your going to have to deal with plasma weaponry that can burn straight through most metals.

Yes it would be a very epic battle and very hard fight for both sides, but its hard to see something that can self res, has a huge disposable army and can learn and adapt very well losing.

"Huge"? Rather relative. The Imperium of man almost certainly has more men then the flood has creatures (due to using realistic scaling for a galaxy sized empire).

By saying B) is impossible I mean that to put it simply: Brains don't work like that.

Necrons vs. Flood would be a massacre.


Well the flood works like that, at least once it gets to the stage where a gravemind has been formed.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:36 pm UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:Well the flood works like that, at least once it gets to the stage where a gravemind has been formed.

And hence my suggestion that either Halo brains are very different (in which case a being from another universe could not be assimilated like that) or there is a metaphysical component (same thing).
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:19 pm UTC

GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:Well the flood works like that, at least once it gets to the stage where a gravemind has been formed.

And hence my suggestion that either Halo brains are very different (in which case a being from another universe could not be assimilated like that) or there is a metaphysical component (same thing).

Or this is the realm of sci-fi and we just allow it to be one of the floods traits.

I think to clarify I am basing this on the fact everything has been pulled into a single dimension with normal physics, but any special attributes, powers etc that everything else has do not go away, and the physics/science bend to fit them.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:33 pm UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:
GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:Well the flood works like that, at least once it gets to the stage where a gravemind has been formed.

And hence my suggestion that either Halo brains are very different (in which case a being from another universe could not be assimilated like that) or there is a metaphysical component (same thing).

Or this is the realm of sci-fi and we just allow it to be one of the floods traits.

I think to clarify I am basing this on the fact everything has been pulled into a single dimension with normal physics, but any special attributes, powers etc that everything else has do not go away, and the physics/science bend to fit them.

You've now created a few contradictions.
What is a special attribute or power? I'd say a super-human immune system should qualify.
What if a universe says one thing while another says something else?
Example: One universe minds are intangible things that control the body (essentialy souls). In the other the mind is a very physical thing. Now suppose someone from universe 1 has the ability to extract these metaphysical minds and store them in jars to power his laser canon. Would that work if they were both brought into the universe you describe?

What if something directly contradicts physics (like tentacles going through steel armor) while the other directly affirms it (steel armor is immune to biological attacks)?
Conservation of momentum is often broken in superhero stories and so finding out whether a hero's punches go through X material becomes impossible.
This becomes especialy problematic when the physics of a universe is undefined but is definitely not normal physics, anything that has not been seen in the first universe has an undefined outcome.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:24 pm UTC

GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:
GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:Well the flood works like that, at least once it gets to the stage where a gravemind has been formed.

And hence my suggestion that either Halo brains are very different (in which case a being from another universe could not be assimilated like that) or there is a metaphysical component (same thing).

Or this is the realm of sci-fi and we just allow it to be one of the floods traits.

I think to clarify I am basing this on the fact everything has been pulled into a single dimension with normal physics, but any special attributes, powers etc that everything else has do not go away, and the physics/science bend to fit them.

You've now created a few contradictions.
What is a special attribute or power? I'd say a super-human immune system should qualify.
What if a universe says one thing while another says something else?
Example: One universe minds are intangible things that control the body (essentialy souls). In the other the mind is a very physical thing. Now suppose someone from universe 1 has the ability to extract these metaphysical minds and store them in jars to power his laser canon. Would that work if they were both brought into the universe you describe?

What if something directly contradicts physics (like tentacles going through steel armor) while the other directly affirms it (steel armor is immune to biological attacks)?
Conservation of momentum is often broken in superhero stories and so finding out whether a hero's punches go through X material becomes impossible.
This becomes especialy problematic when the physics of a universe is undefined but is definitely not normal physics, anything that has not been seen in the first universe has an undefined outcome.

True, thats why these crossover battles don't really work out well >...>
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:45 pm UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:True, thats why these crossover battles don't really work out well >...>

That is true in a way...
But not all things contradict eachother very strongly. You can do a comparison between superheros fairly easily as long as you don't get too technical. A Star Wars vs. Star Trek battle fails not because of universe incompatability but because each is inconsistent in the important points (Star Trek McGuffin's and Star Wars lack of understanding of scale). Sci-fi universes seem to all suffer from scaling problems actually...
Zerg vs. Tyranids can work because they're both based on similar principles.
Predator vs. Master Chief can be done as can US Special Forces vs. Underworld Vampires.
One thing: A lot of things are plot protected or changed for plot purposes. For example the inefficacy of bullets. You should not expect the hero to dodge machine gun bullets when ten guys are spraying him if this crops up in a vs. thread even if said hero actually had this happen in his story.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:03 am UTC

GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:True, thats why these crossover battles don't really work out well >...>

That is true in a way...
But not all things contradict eachother very strongly. You can do a comparison between superheros fairly easily as long as you don't get too technical. A Star Wars vs. Star Trek battle fails not because of universe incompatability but because each is inconsistent in the important points (Star Trek McGuffin's and Star Wars lack of understanding of scale). Sci-fi universes seem to all suffer from scaling problems actually...
Zerg vs. Tyranids can work because they're both based on similar principles.
Predator vs. Master Chief can be done as can US Special Forces vs. Underworld Vampires.
One thing: A lot of things are plot protected or changed for plot purposes. For example the inefficacy of bullets. You should not expect the hero to dodge machine gun bullets when ten guys are spraying him if this crops up in a vs. thread even if said hero actually had this happen in his story.

Yup, I think this has been argued as far it can be argued. The flood will fuck your shit up, but can be countered to a point; but if flood+tryanids+da orks+the borg+the zerg ever happens we all lose, GG universe.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:15 am UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:Yup, I think this has been argued as far it can be argued. The flood will fuck your shit up, but can be countered to a point; but if flood+tryanids+da orks+the borg+the zerg ever happens we all lose, GG universe.

Which factions do you accept could (without a tiny shred of doubt) destroy the flood?
A few suggestions: Petey from Schlock Mercenary, The Culture, The Q Continuum, the fully awakened power of the Necrons.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:57 am UTC

GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:Yup, I think this has been argued as far it can be argued. The flood will fuck your shit up, but can be countered to a point; but if flood+tryanids+da orks+the borg+the zerg ever happens we all lose, GG universe.

Which factions do you accept could (without a tiny shred of doubt) destroy the flood?
A few suggestions: Petey from Schlock Mercenary, The Culture, The Q Continuum, the fully awakened power of the Necrons.

Well anything with God like powers could easily do it, Necrons would be just plain interesting (and would be freaking awesome)
Cthullu would make short work of them I suppose.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby bigglesworth » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:34 am UTC

A demon-infested Chaos army would be interesting. Demons and demonically posessed tanks and ships. Attempting to eat any one of which would result in burning/turning pretty colours/rotting/ecstasy in death. And then mutating and becoming one of them. Chaos psychers would give graveminds a good run for their money, channelling the power of whichever god they hold dear.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:49 am UTC

How about the Dredge? They're made of pure energy; nothing to infect.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Turambar » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:40 am UTC

How about Flood versus Balrogs? Nothing to really infest, since they're technically minor deities or demigods, and the flame should work nicely. Same goes for Ringwraiths.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby SummerGlauFan » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:02 am UTC

Flood vs. Replicators. Without any organic matter, the Flood would be unable to assimilate the Replicators, while the Replicators would, at the very least, consume any and all tech the Flood could use.

I suppose eventually the Replicators might ignore the Flood, but they're just as likely to wipe the Flood out because of their capability ot use advanced technology.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:53 am UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:Flood vs. Replicators. Without any organic matter, the Flood would be unable to assimilate the Replicators, while the Replicators would, at the very least, consume any and all tech the Flood could use.

I suppose eventually the Replicators might ignore the Flood, but they're just as likely to wipe the Flood out because of their capability to use advanced technology.
But the flood, with enough graveminds, might be able to separate a couple of replicators from the masses and then...well....replicate them.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Psychopomp » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:05 pm UTC

I think a fully unleashed Combine would wipe the floor with everyone involved. They may be limited in their ability to get access to Earth, but I think we all need to remember that the Combine is a bio-mechanical, telepathicly commanded force that conquers entire universes! At the end of the day once they get a full door opened, I seriously doubt that anyone could withstand their power based on resources and numbers alone.

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:26 pm UTC

Psychopomp wrote:I think a fully unleashed Combine would wipe the floor with everyone involved. They may be limited in their ability to get access to Earth, but I think we all need to remember that the Combine is a bio-mechanical, telepathicly commanded force that conquers entire universes!

Wow, I love it when evidence for a point I like to make drops in my lap!
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:17 pm UTC

Wow this flood thread is still up? About the combine thing, hmm maybe. Once flood hit intergalatic phase, the tend to fuck up those kinds of civs. Remember the forrunner? They had higher tech and LARGE numbers and the flood still pushed them to the point of suicide.

Long story short.

The Flood will win unless it is
A) the Necrons or something similar
B) A god that can yawn and send all of the flood into oblivion
C)Saladins mom.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:43 pm UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:The Flood will win unless it is

Umm...
I thought you conceded that we can't really do this kind of comparison?
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Mach1ne » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:45 pm UTC

Zerg wins.

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:59 pm UTC

GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:The Flood will win unless it is

Umm...
I thought you conceded that we can't really do this kind of comparison?


I said that it had been argued as far as possible really, I should of worded that to read "The flood will win/fuck your shit up/be a major pain in the ass UNLESS.
You see what I'm getting at?

Mach1ne wrote:Zerg wins.

No the Flooerg or Zerool wins.
Flood takes over zerg vs. Zerg takes over flood. Already been discussed.
Flood-Zerg hybrid pwns universe.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:38 am UTC

Ok, turns out I spelled 'dredge' wrong, they're actually called the Drej.
They're not from a game, rather a movie. They're made of pure energy, so the flood would have a damn hard time infecting them, if at all possible. They also have a mothership capable of annihilating planets.
Spoiler:
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Drej.jpg
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So essentially the Drej can prance around blowing the crap out of the flood whilst remaining relatively untouchable.
Last edited by ACU-LP on Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:33 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:10 am UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:I said that it had been argued as far as possible really, I should of worded that to read "The flood will win/fuck your shit up/be a major pain in the ass UNLESS.
You see what I'm getting at?

Then I disagree for the reasons I've already given.
And I especially disagree with your three conditions for winning. A few trivial counterpoints:
Petey from Schlock Mercenary. Not omnipotent, necron or a relative of Saladin.
The Culture. Ditto.
Star Trek utilizing all their McGuffin's to their fullest potential. As above (barely).
Solar Exalted. Are not omnipotant (though extremely close).
I was going to say D&D epic mages but then I realized those ARE omnipotent.
Marvel+DC combo without their gods but with it's inhabitants having some sense with regards to using their abilities effectively. Not omnipotent by definition.
Star Wars. Death stars. Just keep everyone from going to the planet so they don't get infected, then blow up the planet.

These are all trivial examples. There are many other cases where I still think the other side wins by a large margin but it requires more than a single line of description.
Last edited by GoC on Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:56 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Angelbaka » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:38 pm UTC

First off, infection by flood happens regardless of immune system. They go for nerves, neurons control immune system, ultra replicating, etc. Great immune system is no protection vs flood.
Anything with nerves/control lines can be infected, ships were piloted by gravemind controlling their computers through lines, not by flood sitting at consoles. (represented by flood organic overgrowth on ships)
MasterChief survived cause of plasma shields, which fried flood infectors. No shields = dead chief = game over. Metal shields only = dead. Might take longer, but still dead.
Implied by forerunner shit in H3 that flood become increasingly intelligent proportional to population, so plant takeover = (at least) human level intelligence.
Things that cannot be infected (Johnson) just get killed because they are of no use to the flood.
Thus, exponential growth + proportional intelligence + single minded focus (can't be assimilated, then will be eliminated) yields win. Forerunners killed EVERYTHING in the galaxy because they couldn't kill flood alone before the flood would be capable of intergalactic travel (as presumably they were)
EDIT: flood survive fine in space, without atmosphere. Blowing an infected planet to bits doesn't stop them, just scatters them. Covenant GLASSED any infected planets. Death Star won't work.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:54 pm UTC

Angelbaka wrote:First off, infection by flood happens regardless of immune system. They go for nerves, neurons control immune system, ultra replicating, etc. Great immune system is no protection vs flood.

Umm...
IIRC most immune systems are independant of nerves (though not certain chemicals).
And some fictional immune systems destroy everything that enters the body in seconds. No save. Animal, mineral or vegetable.

Anything with nerves/control lines can be infected, ships were piloted by gravemind controlling their computers through lines, not by flood sitting at consoles. (represented by flood organic overgrowth on ships)

Pray tell how this works.

MasterChief survived cause of plasma shields, which fried flood infectors. No shields = dead chief = game over. Metal shields only = dead. Might take longer, but still dead.

How do they get through steel? Don't say "they just can", tell me HOW!
Thus, exponential growth + proportional intelligence + single minded focus (can't be assimilated, then will be eliminated) yields win. Forerunners killed EVERYTHING in the galaxy because they couldn't kill flood alone before the flood would be capable of intergalactic travel (as presumably they were)

Their exponential growth is not unlimited and I thought they took over forerunner ships? In fact how did they even kill the forerunners? Their units are very pathetic in the games. Melee attacks and biological matter withstanding modern weapons? WTF?
flood survive fine in space, without atmosphere. Blowing an infected planet to bits doesn't stop them, just scatters them. Covenant GLASSED any infected planets. Death Star won't work.

The heat involved there destroys ANY biological matter, so yes it will work. Even if it didn't do you have any idea how big space is? Well the chance of them hitting another inhabitable planet with a chunk large enough to survive reentry is excedingly remote (we're talking big exponentials here).
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:22 am UTC

Remote, yes. But still possible. And it only takes one cell to reinfect the galaxy.
With multiple planets, that isn't worth the risk.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:11 pm UTC

ACU-LP wrote:Remote, yes. But still possible. And it only takes one cell to reinfect the galaxy.
With multiple planets, that isn't worth the risk.

Pretty much anything is possible. But some things are so unlikely they won't happen in the entire age of the universe.
Anyway, it's irrelevant due to them all getting vaporized.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Robert'); DROP TABLE *; » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:00 pm UTC

Surely it would be rather difficult for the flood to infect flood-eating nanodroids?
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:15 pm UTC

Robert'); DROP TABLE *; wrote:Surely it would be rather difficult for the flood to infect flood-eating nanodroids?

I doubt anyone who still believes "OHMYGOD! THE FLOOD PWNS EVERYTHING!" is going to be convinced, whatever you say.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:18 am UTC

GoC wrote:
Robert'); DROP TABLE *; wrote:Surely it would be rather difficult for the flood to infect flood-eating nanodroids?
I doubt anyone who still believes "OHMYGOD! THE FLOOD PWNS EVERYTHING!" is going to be convinced, whatever you say.
GoC, you indeed have a point.
However, what we've got to remember though, is that the forerunners were very advanced and such. For most points, the forerunners would have thought of it and tried it.
They can build flying robots that repair themselves and react with with small amounts of intelligence. Surely they would have been able to make flood-eating nanites, or at least some form of chemical that stops it. It would be a fair assumption that, like the replicators (not on the same scale however), they adapt to things trying to destroy them and eventually become immune. Also like the borg.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:06 am UTC

ACU-LP wrote:GoC, you indeed have a point.
However, what we've got to remember though, is that the forerunners were very advanced and such. For most points, the forerunners would have thought of it and tried it.
They can build flying robots that repair themselves and react with with small amounts of intelligence. Surely they would have been able to make flood-eating nanites, or at least some form of chemical that stops it. It would be a fair assumption that, like the replicators (not on the same scale however), they adapt to things trying to destroy them and eventually become immune. Also like the borg.

Better explanation: Like most works of fiction it contradicts itself if you take our common sense rules for granted* and thus cannot be analyzed in any depth.
The borg don't adapt to anything, they can block certain "frequencies" of star trek weaponry. They can't block anything without frequency (such as kinetic attacks).
And yes, Star Trek contradicts itself even worse in many points.

* Especially things such as what an intelligent being will do, anything in a game is only as intelligent as the script writer and he probably spent less than 5 minutes thinking about it.
In general you will find most species in sci-fi will have amazing technology (writers have excellent imagination) but little actual intelligence (applying such technology, having a basic grasp of tactics or logic).
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby pancake bunny » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:06 am UTC

i just relised somthing you never run into floodified grunts. if te infection forms were smaller they coulf infect the worms that make hunters then we would be in trouble. think flood scarabs.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby RealityPlusPlus » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:22 pm UTC

It'd only take a well designed genetic virus to take them all out. Seriously why the fuck didn't the forerunners just build a virus that used their own infection methodology against them. Then you'd have the option of turning their hostility down, or hell simply just killing all of them.

The Protoss would have a pretty easy time taking out the Flood, their warp technology combined with the accumulated knowledge of how to fight the zerg? Piece of cake. At least the flood don't fly, or destroy the Toss's psychic networks.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby tase » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:49 am UTC

I propose to you orion's arm black angels: http://www.orionsarm.com/topics/Black_Angel.html

Black Angel:
Combat specialized mini-ISO:

Also known as a Dark Angel or a Death Angel in various polities and at various periods in history. The exact nature and capabilities of the Black Angel are only vaguely known and are mostly inferred from anecdotal accounts of eyewitnesses. Never survivors.

The central body of the Black Angel is a reflective black sphere of enhanced matter some 100m in diameter. The central sphere contains a femtotech based mind estimated to be of at least SI:3 level. The outer hull of the sphere acts as a multi-frequency phased array capable of transmitting energy across the entire EM spectrum at a range of energies from weak radio broadcasts to multi-terrawatt lasers. An entire panopoly of pico and femtotech based weapons can also be emitted by the sphere. Finally the outer hull of the central sphere seems to be capable of taking on the properties of the godtech material, ylem, able to convert incoming EM energy to matter with virtually 100% efficiency. However, while ylems conversion ability is an inherent property of the material itself, the hull of a Black Angel seems to be able to turn the effect off and on at will.

Surrounding the central sphere and normally extending out to a distance of some 10,000km in all directions is what at first appears to be a thin cloud of reflective dust or mist. In actuality this cloud, or 'halo' as it is usually called, is a gigantic array of dust mote sized Pitch Drives.

Each drive unit can operate independently or in concert with any or all of the others. Under the control of the central ISO sphere, the halo units can array themselves to produce a variety of gravitational field effects and enormous tidal forces.

A Black Angel can reconfigure its halo and central node to pass thru most wormholes. It can redirect the path of a snowflake or rip a battlemoon to fragments. It can accelerate a pebble into a habitat shattering kinetic bomb or decelerate a RKKS projectile to harmlessness. It can reach down to a planetary surface from orbit and lift a sophont into space or shatter the crust of a world.

The Black Angel is not associated with any particular polity or god. Rather, the basic design and a number of variants have been observed in use at those rare times and places when the archai choose to intervene directly, and especially militarily, in the affairs of Terragens civilization.

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby BlackSails » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:57 pm UTC

Femtotech?

What is it made out of then? Atoms are on the order of thousands of femtometers.

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Berengal » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:16 pm UTC

If it wasn't fiction, it'd be simply science.
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