Google too invasive?

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citiestrit
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Google too invasive?

Postby citiestrit » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:11 am UTC

I know i am not the only one who thinks Google's inviasion of our private space online is getting out of hand...Yes, google desktop, google earth, google mail(reads your mail and send Ads in relaion), google this google that. Private space online? I doubt if there is, besides without google, my analytics wouldnt be better read nor my site easily search out over the web. But where i live, privacy is almost out the window with CCTV and all..DANG its annoying

well...its up to you to choose to send by post instead of email? or advertise via post...not for we web comic artist though

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Game_boy » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:15 pm UTC

Yes, but they make it clear that they are reading your data and there are alternatives. Not as good, but they do exist. Such as Marble for Google Earth.
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OOPMan
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby OOPMan » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:46 am UTC

Frankly, I think Googles "invasion" of out private space is not that big a deal.

People worry about Google when there are plenty of governments around the world who do a lot
more than invade privacy...
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citiestrit
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby citiestrit » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:53 am UTC

Yeah i understand what you're saying but you see the Google Earth is really invasive and beside why is it that some celeb homes ar not on Google Earth..So is the case in Uk. Dont know about where you are.

FrankManic
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby FrankManic » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:30 am UTC

Easy answer? Don't use Google products.

Personally I really, honestly, sincerely embrace Google's burgeoning evil-overlordship. Honestly, as fucked up an pettily evil as the world is we could do a lot worse than Google.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Vault » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:59 am UTC

I've said this before, but if Google were to take over the world tomorrow I'd be perfectly fine with it.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby ex-kgb » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:38 pm UTC

FrankManic wrote:Easy answer? Don't use Google products.


But they still take satelite pictures of your house. It's not just strictly 'opt-in' anymore.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby ash.gti » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:24 pm UTC

The satellite pictures are contracted through government agencies. Just look at North Korea on Google Maps. You can't see much of it now can you. If you don't want your map to show up in google maps then tell your government, although I think the overwhelming majority in most countries keep track of their topographical maps as a public record. Its a useful thing for a government to have up to date maps for anything you'd need a map for. Google just says, "Hey those are public maps right? Well, can I use them on our online map tool?"
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby stinch » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:58 pm UTC

Satellite images do not have a lot of detail. You can see big roads, rivers, built up areas etc. If you can see individual houses, cars, people then the photos where taken closer to earth, probably on a plane.
Also very little of googles map or aerial data will come from government sources. Almost all of it is licensed from corporations. You can see who the data is licensed from at the bottom right of the google maps view.

Governments don't really release for free good enough map or aerial data for gmap use.

The only really unique thing with gmaps is street view where google own the data and I guess don't license it to anybody else. Pretty hard for governments to regulate against driving down public streets with a camera and end up with country people would actually want to live in.

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hotaru
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby hotaru » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:30 pm UTC

if you're out in public, people can see you. if you send stuff over the internet unencrypted, people can read it. google can't invade what you don't have.
if you don't want to be seen, don't go out in public. if you don't want people to read your email, encrypt it.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby thatblackguy » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:01 am UTC

The almighty goog is not to be feared as long as the CEO doesn't change the corporation. They have been rather decent overall, if too forthcoming with information.
In India itself they handed over a guy who abused a political party in a social networking site. wtf google?
Most ways they're fine but they do have severe faults in giving up info that they don't really need toi.
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Woegjiub » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:34 am UTC

This all raises the question: who cares, why do I need privacy?
I couldn't care less if everyone knew my location, searching habits etc. I fail to see how this would effect me in any way, shape or form.
I'm for freedom of information - I hate the idea of censorship.
But privacy? Why do we need it? Do you honestly think anyone will care what you do in your everyday lives?
Things such as business discussions etc which need to remain confidential will still be confidential.
But, your private conversations? who cares? I'll tell anyone anything they want to know, because *nobody actually wants to know*.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Berengal » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:05 am UTC

Woegjiub wrote:This all raises the question: who cares, why do I need privacy?
I couldn't care less if everyone knew my location, searching habits etc. I fail to see how this would effect me in any way, shape or form.
I'm for freedom of information - I hate the idea of censorship.
But privacy? Why do we need it? Do you honestly think anyone will care what you do in your everyday lives?
Things such as business discussions etc which need to remain confidential will still be confidential.
But, your private conversations? who cares? I'll tell anyone anything they want to know, because *nobody actually wants to know*.

Knowledge is power and power is control. I like freedom just as much as the next guy, but I prefer personal freedom over freedom of information.
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby OOPMan » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:12 am UTC

Woegjiub wrote:This all raises the question: who cares, why do I need privacy?
I couldn't care less if everyone knew my location, searching habits etc. I fail to see how this would effect me in any way, shape or form.
I'm for freedom of information - I hate the idea of censorship.
But privacy? Why do we need it? Do you honestly think anyone will care what you do in your everyday lives?
Things such as business discussions etc which need to remain confidential will still be confidential.
But, your private conversations? who cares? I'll tell anyone anything they want to know, because *nobody actually wants to know*.


Er, yeah, privacy is actually kinda important if for no other reason than that having sex in the public eye is an icky idea.
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Woegjiub
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Woegjiub » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:01 pm UTC

OOPMan wrote:Er, yeah, privacy is actually kinda important if for no other reason than that having sex in the public eye is an icky idea.


Only if you're a prude ;)

I just fail to see what anyone could really do with my information, and why I should care if anyone has it.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby OOPMan » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:24 am UTC

Woegjiub wrote:
OOPMan wrote:Er, yeah, privacy is actually kinda important if for no other reason than that having sex in the public eye is an icky idea.


Only if you're a prude ;)

I just fail to see what anyone could really do with my information, and why I should care if anyone has it.


You say that now...
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Woegjiub » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:28 am UTC

OOPMan wrote:You say that now...

Well, apart from what needs to be confidential (banking, business etc), is there really anything? If so, enlighten me please.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby OOPMan » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:06 am UTC

Woegjiub wrote:
OOPMan wrote:You say that now...

Well, apart from what needs to be confidential (banking, business etc), is there really anything? If so, enlighten me please.


No thanks, I'd rather recommend re-read what Berengal posted because he summed it up very well in one line.
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JordyD
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby JordyD » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:54 am UTC

Berengal wrote:Knowledge is power and power is control. I like freedom just as much as the next guy, but I prefer personal freedom over freedom of information.


Plus, if your future employers Google your name, what will they find?

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby ian » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:45 am UTC

Woegjiub wrote:
OOPMan wrote:You say that now...

Well, apart from what needs to be confidential (banking, business etc), is there really anything? If so, enlighten me please.


So you'd be happy for all your friends/family/coworkers to have access to every email or message you ever send over the internet?

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby OOPMan » Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:11 pm UTC

ian wrote:
Woegjiub wrote:
OOPMan wrote:You say that now...

Well, apart from what needs to be confidential (banking, business etc), is there really anything? If so, enlighten me please.


So you'd be happy for all your friends/family/coworkers to have access to every email or message you ever send over the internet?


Another good point. I doubt anyones answer to that is really yes.
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Area Man » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:44 pm UTC

Woegjiub wrote:This all raises the question: who cares, why do I need privacy?
I couldn't care less if everyone knew my location, searching habits etc. I fail to see how this would effect me in any way, shape or form.
I'm for freedom of information - I hate the idea of censorship.
But privacy? Why do we need it? Do you honestly think anyone will care what you do in your everyday lives?
Things such as business discussions etc which need to remain confidential will still be confidential.
But, your private conversations? who cares? I'll tell anyone anything they want to know, because *nobody actually wants to know*.

I get the impression that you're a white, middle-class, native english speaking kid.

Do you trust any industry (like the insurance industry), and employers to not use information for discrimination, or to generally screw people over? This has already been happening.

Humans are weak and, as last year's events illustrated, society is frail; you don't know what crazy shit the next administration will pull (besides suspending habeas corpus).

You might not mind living without much privacy but most people do, and you're free to opt-out, by choice, but everyone who wants privacy shouldn't be considered a criminal or suspicious.
Yes, you can survive without privacy, but people want to live with dignity.
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Woegjiub » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:09 am UTC

Area Man wrote:I get the impression that you're a white, middle-class, native english speaking kid.

Do you trust any industry (like the insurance industry), and employers to not use information for discrimination, or to generally screw people over? This has already been happening.

Humans are weak and, as last year's events illustrated, society is frail; you don't know what crazy shit the next administration will pull (besides suspending habeas corpus).

You might not mind living without much privacy but most people do, and you're free to opt-out, by choice, but everyone who wants privacy shouldn't be considered a criminal or suspicious.
Yes, you can survive without privacy, but people want to live with dignity.


90% white, lower-middle class, native english 19 year old uni student, so close.

my political alignments are best described as left libertarian - almost socialistic and anarchistic.

I don't trust any industry, but my main point is that with the billions of people google has information on, how much of that is publicly released?
It's in their best interests to keep it all private, because they need the information for themseves - advertisement targeting and whatnot.

Okay, disregard that, my facebook profile with all my information on it is the first hit in google for my name.
Rather an achievement I think, given that there are at least 40 people with my name, including the vice pres. of some company.

It's most likely due to my naïveté, but I envisage a world without currency where we do not have to worry about privacy or discrimination, and I tend to believe people will do good despite also believing humans are inherently bad (doublethink?).
A world with free artforms because all artists are given what the require in exchange for producing their work (including musicians), a world where the rich are very highly taxed, a world where all are equal, and none are without education or food.
A world where all work to the best of their abilities, and are given what they require without the exorbatant excesses that the upper classes enjoy now.
A world without disease because those with genetic illnesses are sterilised.
Free healthcare for all, rehabilitation instead of a punitive system, and true freedom of information, where nothing needs to be kept secret because none will exploit it.

I realise that some of this may sound dystopian, but it beats where we are now, and war has produced many of our major scientific advances.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Philwelch » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:21 am UTC

Woegjiub wrote:This all raises the question: who cares, why do I need privacy?
I couldn't care less if everyone knew my location, searching habits etc. I fail to see how this would effect me in any way, shape or form.
I'm for freedom of information - I hate the idea of censorship.
But privacy? Why do we need it? Do you honestly think anyone will care what you do in your everyday lives?
Things such as business discussions etc which need to remain confidential will still be confidential.
But, your private conversations? who cares? I'll tell anyone anything they want to know, because *nobody actually wants to know*.


And yet you post on the forums using a pseudonym?

What is your real name? List your entire Netflix queue, if any. What are the last 5 purchases on your bank account?
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby OOPMan » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:24 am UTC

Woegjiub wrote:
Area Man wrote:I get the impression that you're a white, middle-class, native english speaking kid.

Do you trust any industry (like the insurance industry), and employers to not use information for discrimination, or to generally screw people over? This has already been happening.

Humans are weak and, as last year's events illustrated, society is frail; you don't know what crazy shit the next administration will pull (besides suspending habeas corpus).

You might not mind living without much privacy but most people do, and you're free to opt-out, by choice, but everyone who wants privacy shouldn't be considered a criminal or suspicious.
Yes, you can survive without privacy, but people want to live with dignity.


90% white, lower-middle class, native english 19 year old uni student, so close.

my political alignments are best described as left libertarian - almost socialistic and anarchistic.

I don't trust any industry, but my main point is that with the billions of people google has information on, how much of that is publicly released?
It's in their best interests to keep it all private, because they need the information for themseves - advertisement targeting and whatnot.

Okay, disregard that, my facebook profile with all my information on it is the first hit in google for my name.
Rather an achievement I think, given that there are at least 40 people with my name, including the vice pres. of some company.

It's most likely due to my naïveté, but I envisage a world without currency where we do not have to worry about privacy or discrimination, and I tend to believe people will do good despite also believing humans are inherently bad (doublethink?).
A world with free artforms because all artists are given what the require in exchange for producing their work (including musicians), a world where the rich are very highly taxed, a world where all are equal, and none are without education or food.
A world where all work to the best of their abilities, and are given what they require without the exorbatant excesses that the upper classes enjoy now.
A world without disease because those with genetic illnesses are sterilised.
Free healthcare for all, rehabilitation instead of a punitive system, and true freedom of information, where nothing needs to be kept secret because none will exploit it.

I realise that some of this may sound dystopian, but it beats where we are now, and war has produced many of our major scientific advances.


You're funny dude :-) I look forward to seeing how your opinions, etc will change dramatically when you're out of university, in the real world and working for some company or other. Your "dystopia" sounds like the same old "utopian" jazz that's been playing since people discovered LSD in the 60's ;-)

Personally, I envisage a world in which all the stupid people are placed in a gulag and forced to mine salt while those of us with brains fulfill the wims of my heartless yet totally fabulous technocracy, but whatever floats your boat.
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Philwelch » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:28 am UTC

I envisage a world where Phil Welch has a billion dollars, everyone has comprehensive health insurance, and there are no unwanted kittens ever born.
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby OOPMan » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:30 am UTC

Maybe an "I envisage a world..." thread should be created somewhere. Could be fun :-)
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Woegjiub » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:18 am UTC

Philwelch wrote:
Woegjiub wrote:This all raises the question: who cares, why do I need privacy?
I couldn't care less if everyone knew my location, searching habits etc. I fail to see how this would effect me in any way, shape or form.
I'm for freedom of information - I hate the idea of censorship.
But privacy? Why do we need it? Do you honestly think anyone will care what you do in your everyday lives?
Things such as business discussions etc which need to remain confidential will still be confidential.
But, your private conversations? who cares? I'll tell anyone anything they want to know, because *nobody actually wants to know*.


And yet you post on the forums using a pseudonym?

What is your real name? List your entire Netflix queue, if any. What are the last 5 purchases on your bank account?


A pseudonym is just easier, I like the idea of having a single name.
Also, the only references to this name are my posts.
google it if you like, there's a blog (really just me dumping my thoughts online twice), 4chan posts from when I tripfagged (I got really bored for a couple of months, and I like the speed of replies there, even if it's mostly garbage I've made a couple of real life friends there), and a couple of forums.

Okay.
[redacted due to maturing]

OOPMan wrote:You're funny dude :-) I look forward to seeing how your opinions, etc will change dramatically when you're out of university, in the real world and working for some company or other. Your "dystopia" sounds like the same old "utopian" jazz that's been playing since people discovered LSD in the 60's ;-)

Personally, I envisage a world in which all the stupid people are placed in a gulag and forced to mine salt while those of us with brains fulfill the wims of my heartless yet totally fabulous technocracy, but whatever floats your boat.


Oh no, that was my idea of a utpoia.
My world views are radically changing even now, the thing about sterilisation is just there because the way I see it, a child should not be forced to have a genetic disease when there are plenty of children who want parents.

Define stupid, though.
Does one use IQ? How then are savants treated?
What about the general trend for the more intelligent to be more socially inept?

A technocracy sounds like a good idea though, I must admit.
Last edited by Woegjiub on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:35 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby OOPMan » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:59 pm UTC

Stupid is as stupid does :-)
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Woegjiub » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:25 am UTC

OOPMan wrote:Stupid is as stupid does :-)

Well, not posting that would make me hypocritical.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby '; DROP DATABASE;-- » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:57 am UTC

Everyone has something to hide. It may not be something that needs to be hidden. Maybe just something they're embarrassed about, or that will likely be mistaken for something bad, or that they just want to keep quiet about to avoid potential awkwardness. But there's always something.

Google does scare me, and if I could find an equally good free email service that I could trust not to read my messages, I'd switch to it. But where would I find that? Even if an equally good service existed elsewhere, and I could be relatively certain it's not going to disappear or turn to crap any time soon, what difference does it make? A different company will be reading my emails, whether they say so or not.

You can't trust Google. You can't trust anyone. At least Google's services are pretty damn good.
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Woegjiub » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:41 pm UTC

'; DROP DATABASE;-- wrote:Everyone has something to hide. It may not be something that needs to be hidden. Maybe just something they're embarrassed about, or that will likely be mistaken for something bad, or that they just want to keep quiet about to avoid potential awkwardness. But there's always something.

Google does scare me, and if I could find an equally good free email service that I could trust not to read my messages, I'd switch to it. But where would I find that? Even if an equally good service existed elsewhere, and I could be relatively certain it's not going to disappear or turn to crap any time soon, what difference does it make? A different company will be reading my emails, whether they say so or not.

You can't trust Google. You can't trust anyone. At least Google's services are pretty damn good.

Host your own email server on a linux box at home?

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby OOPMan » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:10 am UTC

Woegjiub wrote:
'; DROP DATABASE;-- wrote:Everyone has something to hide. It may not be something that needs to be hidden. Maybe just something they're embarrassed about, or that will likely be mistaken for something bad, or that they just want to keep quiet about to avoid potential awkwardness. But there's always something.

Google does scare me, and if I could find an equally good free email service that I could trust not to read my messages, I'd switch to it. But where would I find that? Even if an equally good service existed elsewhere, and I could be relatively certain it's not going to disappear or turn to crap any time soon, what difference does it make? A different company will be reading my emails, whether they say so or not.

You can't trust Google. You can't trust anyone. At least Google's services are pretty damn good.

Host your own email server on a linux box at home?


Yes, you can do that if you think that having ALL your emails marked as Spam because they're flowing out of a dynamic IP is cool. You could, of course, pay for a static IP.

Or you could just use Gmail and quit stressing

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby TheTedinator » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:50 pm UTC

I, for one welcome our new Google overlords.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby The Happy Genius » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:05 pm UTC

My biggest gripe with google is that no matter how much they try to tell me their ad targetting is anonymous, it isn't. When I log into google and search, my previous searches are cached, and new results are based on them. My ip is used to target geographically. I just don't like being targetted so closely. I know that when I go to a grocery store, I'm targetted, especially when using member cards, but i've never given a real name.

When ads are targetted based on email content, that's over the line as well. I'm being used more than I'm comfortable with, and I notice these targetted ads more than generic banners, I know google and their partners are happy with that, and it's their goal, but i would never click or buy any product targetted like that.

And just because something happens all the time, doesn't make it OK.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Woegjiub » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:19 am UTC

The Happy Genius wrote:My biggest gripe with google is that no matter how much they try to tell me their ad targetting is anonymous, it isn't. When I log into google and search, my previous searches are cached, and new results are based on them. My ip is used to target geographically. I just don't like being targetted so closely. I know that when I go to a grocery store, I'm targetted, especially when using member cards, but i've never given a real name.

When ads are targetted based on email content, that's over the line as well. I'm being used more than I'm comfortable with, and I notice these targetted ads more than generic banners, I know google and their partners are happy with that, and it's their goal, but i would never click or buy any product targetted like that.

And just because something happens all the time, doesn't make it OK.

I suggest scroogle then.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Lamhslea » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:32 pm UTC

'; DROP DATABASE;-- wrote:Google does scare me, and if I could find an equally good free email service that I could trust not to read my messages, I'd switch to it. But where would I find that? Even if an equally good service existed elsewhere, and I could be relatively certain it's not going to disappear or turn to crap any time soon, what difference does it make? A different company will be reading my emails, whether they say so or not.


http://www.hushmail.com/services/hushmail/

They keep everything encrypted on their servers, and are located in Canada. There's a chance they might have some residual data on their caches at the same time they're issued a court order to release your email, but it's better than nothing.

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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby failed assertion » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:29 pm UTC

Lamhslea wrote:
'; DROP DATABASE;-- wrote:Google does scare me, and if I could find an equally good free email service that I could trust not to read my messages, I'd switch to it. But where would I find that? Even if an equally good service existed elsewhere, and I could be relatively certain it's not going to disappear or turn to crap any time soon, what difference does it make? A different company will be reading my emails, whether they say so or not.


http://www.hushmail.com/services/hushmail/

They keep everything encrypted on their servers, and are located in Canada. There's a chance they might have some residual data on their caches at the same time they're issued a court order to release your email, but it's better than nothing.


Or use https://www.fastmail.fm/ (just a really good IMAP/webmail service) and then GPG everything. That way your email is never cleartext anywhere but your machine and the recipient's machine.

There are alternatives to Google. Yahoo (or even Metacrawler) for search, MapQuest for directions, fastmail/hushmail/whatever for email, drop.io for collaboration, etc.

Alexander The 1st
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Re: Google too invasive?

Postby Alexander The 1st » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:29 pm UTC

There are alternatives to Google. Yahoo (or even Metacrawler) for search, MapQuest for directions, fastmail/hushmail/whatever for email, drop.io for collaboration, etc.


However, how many of these alternatives cover the same suite options that Google does?

Is there anything that's to Google Accounts what Open Office is to Microsoft Office, or better?

For the same reason that saying that GIMP is an alternative to Adobe Photoshop - it may be, but where's that killer CS4 package that Adobe has as an alternative?

There are alternatives...just not viable and useful ones.
...YOU DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING...

pedal2000
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:26 pm UTC

Re: Google too invasive?

Postby pedal2000 » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:07 pm UTC

I'm with Google.

They've gone to court for me. They can't do more than that and still be legal.


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