Help for a jogging beginner

The Food Forum's Evil Twin. Trying to lose weight or get in shape? Tips, encouragement, status reports, and so forth go here.
Disclaimer: Unless otherwise stated, we are not health professionals. Take advice with salt.

Moderators: Mighty Jalapeno, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
dumbzebra
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:59 pm UTC
Location: Somewhere on the moon.

Help for a jogging beginner

Postby dumbzebra » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:11 pm UTC

Hi Forum,
so I want to start jogging to get into shape a bit, and my problem is, proper shoes and clothing seem to be very expensive (at least 120€ for the shoes).
So my question is, how much do you think I, as a beginner, should spend on this stuff? I don´t want to screw up my feet, but I also could imagine this to be just money-making and not really necessary.
Also for the clothing, would you recomend super-comfortable mega pants to not get sore spots, or is this not important?
Btw., any other advice for a beginner is welcome too :-)

About me:
-140 pounds/180cm
-no sports besides weekly PE in high school
-to start I want to go running at least 3 times a week
-it´s getting winter, so it´ll have below 10°C outside
As the great philosopher Socrates once said: "No."

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:53 pm UTC

I'm not sure why you're worrying about this; I jog in New Balance 990's or whatever the model is now. I think the run for 100 bucks or so, which is a bit pricey, but they'll last you easily a full season of heavy jogging.
As for clothes, I prefer running in the heat, and sweat a lot, so prefer wearing less. I tend to wear boxers and short running shorts, and nothing else.

As for beginning to jog advise, I would suggest starting very slowly. Set short goals, like, light jog for 5 minutes without stopping, then walk a bit, then jog again. Push yourself, but not too hard. Be sure to stretch both before and after your run, and hydrate. If you're running in the cold, dress in light layers, so if you get uncomfortable you can strip a bit.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
dumbzebra
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:59 pm UTC
Location: Somewhere on the moon.

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby dumbzebra » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:07 pm UTC

I worrying because there is one side who says running in the wrong shoes will kill you, your family and rape your dog, and the other side says running is caveman sport, and hence there are no special stuff needed. I don´t want to kill myself, nor do I want to spend 100 bucks on stuff I don´t need.
(Maybe it´s important to know that I´m 17, dont have a job and 100 bucks is still a bunch of money for me to spend, so I don´t think it´s stupid to try to get some information first)
As the great philosopher Socrates once said: "No."

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:28 pm UTC

I'm no expert or authority, but I think there's a reasonable middle. I wouldn't go running in my loafers in blue jeans, but I wear my New Balances every day of the week. Spending 100 bucks on a pair of shoes that I wear every day, and can also jog in doesn't seem like much of an investment.

If you've got a light pair of hiking shoes, you can probably get away with using those. If you don't have anything but Converses, you'll probably be fine. Just take it slow to start with and gauge how your feel are doing. Blisters and ankle issues? Slow down a bit, maybe call it a day.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

bbq
Posts: 186
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:00 pm UTC

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby bbq » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:09 pm UTC

I'm no expert on this new fad, but apparently you just run for extended periods of time.
niinn.ininniinniininiini.n.iii...ininiiinnninnin.inn.niniininnnn.

Mere Accumulation Of Observational Evidence Does Not Constitute 'Proof'.

scienceroboticspunk
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:21 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere(or in NJ, USA)

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby scienceroboticspunk » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:21 pm UTC

If you can find a running store near you, they can have tons of advice.
If you wear tennis shoes for PE then you can always just jog in them or normal sneakers if you have to.
As for clothes if you have shorts/sweatpants, and shirt/sweatshirt you should be fine, gloves and a hate are nice in the snow.
A good pair of socks can help alright shoes feel a lot better
Remember, everyones running style and gear they need is diffrent, for my freshman year of cross country(running not jogging) I wore tennis shoes for the most part and they were fine and cost me like 40 bucks and they were by everyday shoes too.
If you feel like getting into distance running, like running 10 mi or more at a time, 100 dollars to drop on a pair of shoes can be really nice. I got my current shoes in september and they prbably have over 500 miles on them and arnt too worn.
Hope this was somewhat helpful and is not too confusing... hopefully.
these are words
type, type, type

Rackum
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:15 pm UTC

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby Rackum » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:23 pm UTC

Even if the shoes you get aren't 100% form fitted for your feet, a pair of decent insoles can help with arch support or any other foot specifics you may have.

As for other clothing, if it's going to be 50F (10C) that's really not bad at all. Your body will heat up rapidly and you should be pretty comfortable -- maybe a light windbreaker style jacket. Other than that I'd just go gym shorts and a good moisture wicking t-shirt.

Edit: typo

Victoria Maddison
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 10:01 am UTC

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby Victoria Maddison » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:58 pm UTC

Arch support severely compromises the natural shock absorption capabilities of the foot, leading to a greater incidence of lower extremity injury among those who wear shock absorbing shoes. The arch of the foot is meant to be flexible like a leaf spring to passively absorb vertical shocks.

Regarding clothing just wear old sweat pants and a t-shirt, it's not a beauty contest, and Chinese made imitation Vibrams are around 35 EUR on ebay.
Last edited by Victoria Maddison on Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:22 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Solt
Posts: 1912
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:08 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby Solt » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:01 am UTC

scienceroboticspunk wrote:If you can find a running store near you, they can have tons of advice.


Yea, advice like "buy running shoes oh hey look we've got some good ones whadya know..."



Do you really think our human and proto-human ancestors, who regularly walked and ran dozens of miles tracking prey, needed good shoes otherwise they would get hurt? (for that matter, do you think they stood around doing static stretches before exerting themselves?) Humans are built for running. That's why our glutes are so big. Running shoes aren't going to improve on a few millions years of evolution.


Run in anything. The key is START SLOWLY. Your lungs and heart can probably handle a good amount of running. But your leg muscles and tendons and ligaments CANNOT. They will hurt quite a bit at first, and if you don't rest they will start to hurt even more. They need time to get used to the loads you are giving them. I learned this the hard way, and bought TWO new pairs of shoes after joining cross country because I thought the first pair were causing my feet to hurt like hell. It just turned out that I was doing too much too soon, which is how many injuries happen in sports.

Also, in the military they run in boots. They seem to turn out fine.

dumbzebra wrote:I don´t want to kill myself, nor do I want to spend 100 bucks on stuff I don´t need.


I'd say you just want shoes that are durable. Don't run in your converse chucks because they will break down very soon and you'll either have to start replacing them or change your shoe type to something better and your feet won't like the change. I read a story once about a champion marathon runner who was a minor celebrity for his respective immigrant community (greek I think). He was hosted by a family before running and they gave him a gift of brand new running shoes the night before his race. He wore them and he wasn't even able to finish, and had to quit with bleeding feet or something.
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,
produced a more reliable product. But sailors do
not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a
most annoying habit of splitting in two."
-J.W. Morris

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:05 pm UTC

Military boots are, for all intensive purposes in regards to a running shoe, simply a thicker soled tennis shoe that laces up to your shins.

The advice to 'run in anything' isn't particularly wise for obvious reasons, but just apply common sense and you'll be fine.

Solt wrote:Do you really think our human and proto-human ancestors, who regularly walked and ran dozens of miles tracking prey, needed good shoes otherwise they would get hurt? (for that matter, do you think they stood around doing static stretches before exerting themselves?) Humans are built for running. That's why our glutes are so big. Running shoes aren't going to improve on a few millions years of evolution.

Just to point out Solt; most aren't living the lifestyle that they lived, that made that possible. Our ancestors didn't eat diets rich in fats and sugars, and spend approximately eight hours a day sitting on a padded surface exercising their hands. I would wager most cavemen, prior to starting a 30 mile run to chase down that gazelle, started with some light stretching. Maybe some calisthenics. Warm the blood, you know.

But yes, humans are sublimely built to run.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

scienceroboticspunk
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:21 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere(or in NJ, USA)

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby scienceroboticspunk » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:01 pm UTC

Solt wrote:
scienceroboticspunk wrote:If you can find a running store near you, they can have tons of advice.


Yea, advice like "buy running shoes oh hey look we've got some good ones whadya know..."



My point was not so much help with shoes, but at my local running store they know of all these great places for running trails and stuff. Information I would never have found out otherwise. They also can give you advice on fabrics, such as when to wear cotton or other kinds of fabrics, the breathability you can get and such. Expirimenting is also a good way to find that out yourself. At any running store I have been to they dont so much try and sell you things they just love to talk about runing and have great advice for those just starting out. It might also change things because I have had positive times at running stores.
these are words
type, type, type

Rackum
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:15 pm UTC

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby Rackum » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:17 pm UTC

Victoria Maddison wrote:Arch support severely compromises the natural shock absorption capabilities of the foot, leading to a greater incidence of lower extremity injury among those who wear shock absorbing shoes. The arch of the foot is meant to be flexible like a leaf spring to passively absorb vertical shocks.

Regarding clothing just wear old sweat pants and a t-shirt, it's not a beauty contest, and Chinese made imitation Vibrams are around 35 EUR on ebay.

Definitely gonna need some citation on "shock abosrbing shoes cause injury" because I'm well aware of the biomechanics of the foot and I've never heard of that. Additionally, lack of shock absorption is a great way to screw your ankles, knees, hips, lower back ... hell, any joint above your feet really. The shock absorption of the foot only works if you're running on your toes, which you're probably not doing for distance.

Also, as for running in military boots -- while they have gotten better over the years, I've done formation runs in full uniform and running in boots is not a pleasant experience. It's not as bad as barefoot but not nearly as comfortable as a decent pair of running shoes.

Edit:
scienceroboticspunk wrote:My point was not so much help with shoes, but at my local running store they know of all these great places for running trails and stuff. Information I would never have found out otherwise. They also can give you advice on fabrics, such as when to wear cotton or other kinds of fabrics, the breathability you can get and such. Expirimenting is also a good way to find that out yourself. At any running store I have been to they dont so much try and sell you things they just love to talk about runing and have great advice for those just starting out. It might also change things because I have had positive times at running stores.

I have to agree. There is alot of information free for the taking at many running stores but just be aware that not all running stores are created equal. I've found that generally the "hey buy our crap" mentality is found more at generic sporting goods stores while most stores that cater specifically to running are less pushy and really are just there because they love running.

shocklocks
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:32 am UTC

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby shocklocks » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:54 am UTC

The whole no support thing kind of worries me as well. I have flat feet and walk pretty awkwardly. It's lead to quite bad reoccuring plantar fasciitis. I've been told to wear very supportive shoes and I wear custom orthodics which I believe are there to take some of the pressure away from my heel. I also have other heel seats that as well as offering support are meant to stretch the plantar facilia.

Victoria Maddison
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 10:01 am UTC

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby Victoria Maddison » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am UTC

Rackum wrote:Definitely gonna need some citation on "shock abosrbing shoes cause injury" because I'm well aware of the biomechanics of the foot and I've never heard of that. Additionally, lack of shock absorption is a great way to screw your ankles, knees, hips, lower back ... hell, any joint above your feet really.

Precisely, compromising the natural ability of the body to absorb shocks the way it's meant to is a bad idea.

  1. Caspersen C, Powell K, Kplan P et al (1984) The incidence of injuries and hazards in recreational and fitness runners Med Sci Sports Exerc 16:113
  2. Clark T, Frederick E & Cooper L (1982) The effects of shoe cushioning upon selected force and temporal patterns in running Med Sci Sports Exerc 14:144
  3. Nigg B (1986) Ed: Biomechanics of Running Shoes Human Kinetics Publ
  4. Robbins S & Hanna A (1987) Running related injury prevention through barefoot adaptations Med Sci Sports Exerc 19:148-156
  5. Robbins S, Hanna A & Gouw G (1988) Overload protection: avoidance response to heavy plantar surface loading Med Sci Sports Exerc 20(1):85-92

User avatar
Solt
Posts: 1912
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:08 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby Solt » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:59 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Just to point out Solt; most aren't living the lifestyle that they lived, that made that possible. Our ancestors didn't eat diets rich in fats and sugars, and spend approximately eight hours a day sitting on a padded surface exercising their hands.


Very true, which is why I told OP to PROGRESS SLOWLY. I can't emphasize this enough. If you push yourself too hard too soon in any sport, you are very likely to get injured, and this is exactly because we haven't been hunting since we were old enough to, instead we study or work all day. I bet we'd have a lot fewer injuries if we still lead that lifestyle.

Izawwlgood wrote:I would wager most cavemen, prior to starting a 30 mile run to chase down that gazelle, started with some light stretching. Maybe some calisthenics. Warm the blood, you know.


I would take that bet. Just start running. That does a damn fine job of warming you up.

And hunting isn't the only situation where muscles are put in high demand. Imagine what happens to the guy who pulls a muscle or gets a cramp when a rival tribe launches a surprise attack on him, or when he gets a surprise bear attack when out searching for wood.

Rackum wrote:Definitely gonna need some citation on "shock abosrbing shoes cause injury" because I'm well aware of the biomechanics of the foot and I've never heard of that.


The effect doesn't happen in the foot. It happens in the gastrocnemius and surrounding tendon. Human muscle and tendon is actually elastic, and our feet are built to take advantage of this elasticity. Every time you land on your feet after taking a stride, your muscles elastically store some of that energy and deliver it back into the next stride, increasing the efficiency of your run. Why else would the calves have such an inefficient lever arm on the foot? Remember that guy with carbon fiber legs that wanted to compete in the Olympics? They denied him, and rightly so, because his legs were designed to have superior efficiency over normal human legs when walking/running, through this very effect. Think about kangaroos. They don't go jumping around, that would be horribly inefficient. Rather, they have an extremely elastic lower body construction that exploits this effect to the max. Kangaroos are more like pogo sticks than walking robots.

As any mechanical engineer will tell you, adding another spring in the mix will completely change the dynamics of the system. By having "springy" shoes, you mess up the natural action of the foot because you are putting another spring in line with your existing springy-leg system. Depending on the spring constants you can have the springs in or out of phase. If they are 180 degrees out of phase, that actually increases the impact on your foot everytime you take a step. I'm not saying this is how it happens, but just giving an example of how that kind of support can hurt you.


Rackum wrote:Additionally, lack of shock absorption is a great way to screw your ankles, knees, hips, lower back ... hell, any joint above your feet really.


Not gonna pretend I know the answer to that, but many injuries can be caused by insufficient strength in supporting muscles. Oh, and if you run the wrong way, you will get injured eventually too. People walk/run differently with shoes, not the way we evolved to walk. It's possible to run fairly correctly in running shoes, but we aren't trained to. It's like with weight lifting- you're actually more likely to get injured on a machine than lifting free weights because the machines force you into unnatural movement patterns.
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,

produced a more reliable product. But sailors do

not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a

most annoying habit of splitting in two."

-J.W. Morris

caje
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:01 am UTC

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby caje » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:04 am UTC

I would suggest Vibrams... i love mine and have never met anyone with them that didn't. They will force you to run ball-heel. (aka the proper way to run)

caje
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:01 am UTC

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby caje » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:10 am UTC

Rackum wrote:Definitely gonna need some citation on "shock abosrbing shoes cause injury" because I'm well aware of the biomechanics of the foot and I've never heard of that. Additionally, lack of shock absorption is a great way to screw your ankles, knees, hips, lower back ... hell, any joint above your feet really. The shock absorption of the foot only works if you're running on your toes, which you're probably not doing for distance.


Normally running shoes mess up our shock absorption because people run heel-ball in them. Lack of shock absorption will force you to run ball-heel giving you natural shock absorption and yes you SHOULD run like that for long distance. A lack of shock absorption in shoes only screws up your joints if you run incorrectly to how humans evolved to do it.

shocklocks
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:32 am UTC

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby shocklocks » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:21 am UTC

Gasp I used to walk/run ball heel. I stopped because i was mocked for it as no one else did. It left me purposely trying to strike my heel first. how very strange.

JudeMorrigan
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:26 pm UTC

Re: Help for a jogging beginner

Postby JudeMorrigan » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:33 pm UTC

Solt wrote:
scienceroboticspunk wrote:If you can find a running store near you, they can have tons of advice.


Yea, advice like "buy running shoes oh hey look we've got some good ones whadya know..."


Meh, if you go to a running store that doesn't suck (always a danger, admittedly), they'll stick you on a treadmill and do a proper stride analysis (with far more reliability than the wet test). Even if you don't buy from the store, that's good information to have so you can make certain you don't buy a pair of shoes designed for overpronaters if you're a severe underpronater or vice versa. Maybe you can't improve on millions of years of evolution, but you can certainly make things worse.


Return to “Fit Club”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests