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Citation Hell

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:10 am UTC
by jewish_scientist
I am writing an essay on my own. Its not a school assignment, I just want to practice writing academic style papers. One of the things I want to make sure that I get right is the citations. Most of the time, this is easy. Easybib does basically all the work for me. However, I do not think that it can help me with this case.

I want to quote a different paper that I wrote as a school assignment, which contains quotations and paraphrases from the IEP. The IEP in turn paraphrases many different philosophers. What is the proper way to format this citation in MLA?

Re: Citation Hell

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:32 pm UTC
by ucim
I can't help you directly, but I would first ascertain what it is you are quoting, and why (on which authority) it is being used as support for your point. If you are using quotes from philosophers to back you up, then the philosophers are the authority you are referencing, and I'd find an original source for their quote, and cite that. But if you yourself are the authority ("jewish_scientist claims foo, and that's good enough for me"), then cite your paper directly. A source does not have to be publicly available to be valid (I've seen the likes of "Fulano deTal, private communication" cited in scientific papers), but being harder to confirm, it's less convincing as a resort to authority.

Jose

Re: Citation Hell

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:56 pm UTC
by LaserGuy
I agree that the best thing to do is to just cite your primary sources. I guess you could cite it as an unpublished work if it's absolutely necessary that you quote that source, but your audience isn't likely to give it much credibility since they have no way of accessing that work.

It's a good idea not to cite yourself too often anyway. In some cases it's inevitable, and if you have a good reason to do it, that's fine, but reviewers are often unforgiving if they see you gratuitously citing your own works.

Re: Citation Hell

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:57 pm UTC
by trpmb6
LaserGuy wrote:It's a good idea not to cite yourself too often anyway. In some cases it's inevitable, and if you have a good reason to do it, that's fine, but reviewers are often unforgiving if they see you gratuitously citing your own works.


I came across this thread randomly and this reminded me about a time in college when I had two separate professors who were both among the top researchers in their respective fields. One was Heat Transfer and the other was Acoustics (specifically aircraft engine nacelles). Any research paper you did in their classes led to you inevitably citing one of their works. And it was very common for them to cite themselves. I remember one of the Heat Transfer papers we were reviewing that our Professor wrote had about 20ish sources. 3/4th of them were works he had authored, co-authored or was the adviser for (think thesis/dissertations/etc).

Re: Citation Hell

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:38 pm UTC
by Liri
LaserGuy wrote:It's a good idea not to cite yourself too often anyway. In some cases it's inevitable, and if you have a good reason to do it, that's fine, but reviewers are often unforgiving if they see you gratuitously citing your own works.

I see it most often as, "here're our previous results that we're continuing from" or "see this paper for a more detailed method description". Rather than the researchers ignoring conflicting studies and continuing on a single track. Most big grants expect more than a single paper, for instance.

Re: Citation Hell

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:10 am UTC
by ucim
There was a time {mumble} years ago where I was doing data entry for a conference on natal care; part of the job involved reading submitted papers and making recommendations. There was this one paper that proposed some very odd methods, and seemed on the verge of quackery. I started going through the footnotes and references and citations; it turns out that pretty much every one of them was to one of xis other papers, which also cited others of xer papers. (We really have to work on genderless pronouns!) More notably, none (or almost none - it's been too long for me to recall accurately) of the references cited any legitimate external work.

The person in charge of the conference had not noticed this (xe also leaned towards odd methodologies), but when it was pointed out, was bowled over.

IIRC, the conference did not include this presenter.

Jose

Re: Citation Hell

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:08 pm UTC
by trpmb6
In the aircraft industry, certification documents will often refer back to previously certified documents; whether it be an expansion upon the previous document or a completely new aircraft utilizing methods/components/materials/etc that were previously certified. The "don't fix it if it ain't broke" adage applies. Though occasionally the FAA/EASA will slap us down and change the regulations so we have to address that but it's usually minor. (As an aside, this is one of the reasons why Boeing and Airbus have been doing re-engine programs like the 737MAX or the A320NEO because they don't want to recertify an entire airframe and you can still get some marginal performance improvements with the new engine tech out there.)

Re: Citation Hell

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:33 am UTC
by brooksjo
Hello jewish_scientist,

New here, but ready to help. I just couldn't pass by, because citation is something that makes my head spin like a windmill (at least, it influenced me so a few years ago and it was a "citation hell"). I worked in the Cornell University Press for many years, and the basic requirement then was correct citation. It bored me to death, but I could not avoid it (true).
So (putting aside my emotional speech), citations should always be from the original source. Always. That was our main rule for any citation style. However, I also know that some professors do have their own preferences and requirements, thus, then it depends on the task itself. But if you are doing it just for yourself (which is indeed a great idea to master your skills and recall some basic points in essay writing), you may choose the variant that you like.

Regards,
Johnell Brooks

Clever putting spam in your signature and making it tiny. Not so clever in that we noticed -ST

Re: Citation Hell

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:04 pm UTC
by TerryLewis
jewish_scientist wrote:I am writing an essay on my own. Its not a school assignment, I just want to practice writing academic style papers. One of the things I want to make sure that I get right is the citations. Most of the time, this is easy. [url=/]bib[/url] does basically all the work for me. However, I do not think that it can help me with this case.

I want to quote a different paper that I wrote as a school assignment, which contains quotations and paraphrases from the IEP. The IEP in turn paraphrases many different philosophers. What is the proper way to format this citation in MLA?


What is the major difference between Easybib and Grammarly? Have you tried both?
As for citations, I usually refer to Online Writing Lab at Purdue University (the TAMUCC writing center uses them too).

Terry Lewis
(Retired professor, former director of Theatre/Theatre and Dance (TAMUCC))

Re: Citation Hell

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:24 pm UTC
by jewish_scientist
This semester my teacher introduced my to the Purdue OWL. It is probably the best way to do citations because it covers just about every edge-case imaginable. The only downside is that it does not create citations like Easybib does.