Reason for expulsion?

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roflcopter
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Reason for expulsion?

Postby roflcopter » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:43 am UTC

I know this is long but please bear through it to help me out. :mrgreen:

Okay I will start off with some back story to all of this, I am currently going to a public high-school that does not have a very large population of 'thinking' people. The great mass of students could be most properly described as 'ignorant' and this being the case I understand that certain overbearing-ness can be required in the punishment of students to set examples and the like. But during the last school year I was threatened with expulsion for the computer related offense that I am going to relate to you shortly. I am looking for opinions on whether or not anyone here agrees with the school and if they think I should even be involved from the schools standpoint.

To begin most people here will know that in Microsoft XP there is a utility called Remote Desktop that allows you to access one computer by temporarily logging another off using this utility to log into it from a second computer. As you know this only works if you know the username and password to the computer and user account you are trying to access, this limits you to logging into the normal highly restricted student account present on all school computers. The computers in our school are owned by a third party tech company that maintains and repairs the computers, they block out most applications and limit the functionality greatly to a point where you can not ever right-click on a school computer. With that in mind anything that is still present and you are not restricted of using should be viewed as fair game by the students correct?

Well in the start menu under utilities the Remote Desktop application is still present and functions correctly. One of my friends who is not as tech savy as me came to me and asked me if there was a way to control one computer from another. Without a second thought I obliged and told him how to use that application and went on with my life. If I had not told him he could have easily gone home and looked it up himself and would have.

Now keep in mind I never did this on school property at any point and only told my one friend how to because he asked. Well about two weeks later I get called up to the principals office quite randomly and get sat down with the principal, tech advisor, vice principal, and one of the secretaries. I still had no clue what it was about at this point, then they tell me they need to speak with my parents and I provide my mother and fathers cell phone numbers and they proceed to get both of them on speaker phone and start the meeting. They tell my parents ver batim "Your son has been tampering with school property, specifically computers, and is the ring-leader of a hacking group in the school." Needless to say my parents flipped out. I told everyone listening at that point that I had done nothing(which I had done nothing) and then the principal let the tech advisor explain that I had been "convincing other students to hack into computers in the school" and that they had been two steps away from accessing the gradebooks on teachers computers, even though these two steps were getting the IP of a teachers computer and knowing the password to get into their account(which they didn't mention).

During this whole process I was never allowed to explain myself at all and was notified along with my parents that they had grounds for expulsion and that they were going to give me another chance by only giving me a 3-day suspension. And now I am not allowed to use any school computers or computers at all on school campus, and if I get in trouble for anything in the rest of my time there they can expel me without cause.

So who thinks that they were in the right or even had any grounds to get mad at me? And because of the nature of the phone call to my parents and the suspension my grades suffered due to missing class and I was severely punished and went though a lot of crap with my parents, based on that couldn't I technically take it farther? like to the school board or even court for the anguish and hardship that it caused me in my all around life?

Once again sorry for it being so long but I would really like to have some educated(yes I consider you educated, or atleast slightly more level headed than the school administration :twisted: ) opinions on whether I am looking at this wrong and what my options are in the future about it.

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Generic Protoplasm
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Generic Protoplasm » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:36 am UTC

Most school administration doesn't understand how their system even works. They will get you in trouble for bullshit reasons and state "facts" that they just made up because they don't understand what is happening. My school is the same way, but when I got in trouble I managed to talk my way out of most of it. I sort of...accidentally...simultaneously crashed over 100 computers and ruining the make-up TAKS test (minimum skills standardized test) and only got 3 days suspension. They called me a hacker and thought I got in the grade book because a teacher printed a picture of one of the message boxes I sent (yeah, a pop-up box crashed those computers) onto an old gradesheet. Oi.

Try as you might, sometimes you have to take the bullshit they give you and just silently hate them. I've decided that in the future I'm gonna do a drive-by-hacking where I wait for the TAKS make-up to come around again and drive by outside the school with stolen WEP keys and crash it with a message that says, "Neener neener!"
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roflcopter
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby roflcopter » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:42 am UTC

True.

But if I get in any more trouble for anything like that I'm not going to give in so easily...

And the think that really ticked me off is that I basically got in trouble for knowing how to do something!!! What kind of message is that sending students when knowledge is a bad thing? I mean even if I hadn't told him he would have found out how on his own...

keeperofdakeys
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby keeperofdakeys » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:49 am UTC

technically you did do something wrong, I hope you understand that
it's good to impart wisdom but not when it is obvious the other person is going to misuse the information; even with your friends

but that school really did go overboard in my mind, I would seriously consider going to the school board
just ring up, make an appointment and they should be happy to discuss it; just remember to be level headed, keep your composure and maybe get some information off the internet
do you know another computer nerd (it seems that your parents aren't), someone who is an adult, just so they take you more seriously

court is a little TOO overboard though, maybe you should just change schools
how many years have you got left?

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby roflcopter » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:59 am UTC

Well I only have a year and a half left so there is not a whole lot of point in switching schools, and honestly I didn't even remember telling it to him until 5 minutes into the conference, like it was a fleeting question that he asked me during lunch, and not even in context to the school computers, he just asked it as if he was curious and I didn't think anything of it...

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Rinsaikeru » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am UTC

From the perspective of a reasonable person with even a glancing understanding of computers: Knowledge of a tool INCLUDED in the os and allowed to remain there by admins, should not constitute any threat of expulsion.

That said, school admin is a scary wilderness full of fear of technology. If you want to pursue this further be aware of a few things: 1. You must stay calm and levelheaded and not insult any faculty members. 2. They might label you a trouble maker even if you get it resolved just because you caused them some hassle. 3. Don't tell anybody anything for the remainder of highschool...including things that seem really benign at the time.
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keeperofdakeys
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby keeperofdakeys » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:13 am UTC

yeah, your right, I would probably do the same thing

BURN THERE HOUSES :twisted:

but seriously do consider getting an adult who understands and going to the school board

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby roflcopter » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:25 am UTC

Well staying level headed is one thing I pride myself in so that shouldn't be an issue... And trust me I haven't told anyone anything since then. But we have a new tech advisor now so I am not sure what bringing it up again would cause. Oh and I didn't mention in the original post but none of the kids actually doing it did anything malicious and didn't even get DETENTION!!!

And if I do go to the school board I have plenty of educated adults that would back me up with everything. One of my worries about that is that since the schools don't own the computers I am not sure if that one company supplies for the entire district and if the school board even has any authority over that...

keeperofdakeys
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby keeperofdakeys » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:32 am UTC

you wouldn't be complaining about the computers, you would be complaining that the school threatened you with expulsion on no grounds, it would help to say that a punishment was needed but not to that extent

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Angelic Hellraiser » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:07 am UTC

*sighs* I think it should be a requirement that the administration of any school should be computer savy, because that's just wrong. They didn't even give you a chance to explain?
Did you try explaining to your parents after school?
Another thing you should do is talk to the tech department, see if they know anything about this. If they do, have them go to the administration and explain everything you did.

If nothing helps, thank whatever you believe in that you only have a year and a half left of that hellhole...
But, what do I know? I'm just a lonely shoe-maker...

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby ++$_ » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:46 am UTC

You guys may be underestimating the importance of this incident.

While it's true that you probably won't be expelled, at some point you will apply to college (I assume). Your teachers will have to write recommendations. They will have to check the box that says "Has this student had any disciplinary problems in school?" They will have to write an explanation. You may not get a chance to explain your side of the story to the colleges.

Essentially, the problem here is that you were falsely accused (assuming the story you have told us is true). Whether or not what you did was wrong -- I'm not at all sure that it is -- you DIDN'T do what they claimed you did (lead a hacking group).

The first thing you need to do is explain this to your parents. Make sure that they understand EXACTLY what you did and/or didn't do. Make sure that they understand that you were falsely accused. If you can't convince them, then you are certainly not going to be able to convince the principal.

Assuming you do manage to convince your parents, then you MAY want to get the school to expunge this from the record. I suggest that as a first step, you write a courteous letter to the principal explaining your side of the story. Make sure that it's about YOU, and not about how he got it wrong. You should explain exactly what question your friend asked, and that you thought he was referring to his home computer, and that's why you explained how to do it. You should explain that you had no idea that he was planning to use it maliciously, and that you didn't hear anything else about it until you were called into the principal's office. See if you can meet and talk it over. You're not angry, but you do want to set the record straight.

My guess is that the principal will be happy to talk it over, and that you will at least get him to understand that you're not an Evil Hacker. But it's possible that he'll refuse, or won't "get it". In that case, you should go to the school board.

As for the possibility of a court case, I'd recommend against it. Where is your evidence? How will you have the time to appear in court? Can you afford a lawyer? What are you going to sue for? If you just want the decision reversed, taking it to court seems hardly worth it, and I doubt you really want to press for monetary damages.

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby rath358 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:09 am UTC

Unfortunately, you are in a major quandry. I can see no easy way out besides a possibly futile attempt at peaceful negotiation. If it helps, I would like to share a humorous quote.

Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)
In the Beginning, God made idiots. That was for pratice. Then he/she made school boards.

I hope that this issue is resolved
=]

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Snowdream » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:21 am UTC

Just so you know; Explusion will not happen like 'That.' By that, I mean - "Please leave our campus, do not come back."

There is a set of guidelines and rules that the district must follow, and can take a fair amount of time. It even includes a hearing to an impartial judge to plead your case.

I understand that you gave your friend the lesson, but I assume it wasn't because you wanted to 'lead hackers.' Sometimes... the school system tends to jump to conclusion, and will form a fantasy in their heads. And in today's world of Technology fears... One person telling another a PC function can make you a 'hacker' in no time.

And to be honest, it's quite clear you were a victim of ignorance, and fear. The fear is that they may have been making it more dramatic to 'keep you in line.' Its a tactic that is used quite often. The administration will make a very large show about something, in order to keep you from causing trouble again. It's quite effective really. The only problem is that it causes a lot of seething and anger to the victim. You can fight back, you have that right as a student. If they begin to make noise or spread rumors, you can threaten to sue for slander! (although that would be for the EXTREME).

go to your bored, make your case. Do it in Layman's terms, appeal to the board members who already know something about computers.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Ralith » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:25 pm UTC

The people in my school who run the computer department don't even know that I can still set my resolution via rightclick-screen settings method.

Or how to do much of anything.

And think we're all stupider than they.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby btilly » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:33 pm UTC

keeperofdakeys wrote:technically you did do something wrong, I hope you understand that
it's good to impart wisdom but not when it is obvious the other person is going to misuse the information; even with your friends

Was it obvious that the other person is going to misuse the information? It wouldn't be obvious to me!

Furthermore the people administering the computers are clearly incompetent. They probably have remote desktop on to make administration simpler. Well fine. But it is trivial to limit which users can connect remotely. Not doing this with a population of kids who are bound to explore anything they can get their hands on is stupid.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby IggyJack » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:51 pm UTC

roflcopter wrote:I know this is long but please bear through it to help me out. :mrgreen:

Okay I will start off with some back story to all of this, I am currently going to a public high-school that does not have a very large population of 'thinking' people. The great mass of students could be most properly described as 'ignorant' and this being the case I understand that certain overbearing-ness can be required in the punishment of students to set examples and the like. But during the last school year I was threatened with expulsion for the computer related offense that I am going to relate to you shortly. I am looking for opinions on whether or not anyone here agrees with the school and if they think I should even be involved from the schools standpoint.

To begin most people here will know that in Microsoft XP there is a utility called Remote Desktop that allows you to access one computer by temporarily logging another off using this utility to log into it from a second computer. As you know this only works if you know the username and password to the computer and user account you are trying to access, this limits you to logging into the normal highly restricted student account present on all school computers. The computers in our school are owned by a third party tech company that maintains and repairs the computers, they block out most applications and limit the functionality greatly to a point where you can not ever right-click on a school computer. With that in mind anything that is still present and you are not restricted of using should be viewed as fair game by the students correct?

Well in the start menu under utilities the Remote Desktop application is still present and functions correctly. One of my friends who is not as tech savy as me came to me and asked me if there was a way to control one computer from another. Without a second thought I obliged and told him how to use that application and went on with my life. If I had not told him he could have easily gone home and looked it up himself and would have.

Now keep in mind I never did this on school property at any point and only told my one friend how to because he asked. Well about two weeks later I get called up to the principals office quite randomly and get sat down with the principal, tech advisor, vice principal, and one of the secretaries. I still had no clue what it was about at this point, then they tell me they need to speak with my parents and I provide my mother and fathers cell phone numbers and they proceed to get both of them on speaker phone and start the meeting. They tell my parents ver batim "Your son has been tampering with school property, specifically computers, and is the ring-leader of a hacking group in the school." Needless to say my parents flipped out. I told everyone listening at that point that I had done nothing(which I had done nothing) and then the principal let the tech advisor explain that I had been "convincing other students to hack into computers in the school" and that they had been two steps away from accessing the gradebooks on teachers computers, even though these two steps were getting the IP of a teachers computer and knowing the password to get into their account(which they didn't mention).

During this whole process I was never allowed to explain myself at all and was notified along with my parents that they had grounds for expulsion and that they were going to give me another chance by only giving me a 3-day suspension. And now I am not allowed to use any school computers or computers at all on school campus, and if I get in trouble for anything in the rest of my time there they can expel me without cause.

So who thinks that they were in the right or even had any grounds to get mad at me? And because of the nature of the phone call to my parents and the suspension my grades suffered due to missing class and I was severely punished and went though a lot of crap with my parents, based on that couldn't I technically take it farther? like to the school board or even court for the anguish and hardship that it caused me in my all around life?

Once again sorry for it being so long but I would really like to have some educated(yes I consider you educated, or atleast slightly more level headed than the school administration :twisted: ) opinions on whether I am looking at this wrong and what my options are in the future about it.
To the poster of this ridiculous story of administration bullshit, you are correct in every word. To the first person to reply, you are correct as well. Admins generally do not understand their own operating systems which is generally why they go to a third party so that they can come out looking like the superior, while blaming others for alleged "hacking" rings. I read every last word and when i came to the point where they told you that you were the ring leader of a school hacking system, i wanted to come down there and punch the principal in the face. I apologize, but that is bullshit. If we have learned anything from the history of Administrations in schools and technology, its this, they do not understand the shit that is coming from their mouth and their own tech department. I believe, that you should take this as far as it will go, because all you did was simply tell a friend, who asked, how to access a computor from another. Which, generally sounds like hacking, but if the program to access another computer is already built into the computer, it is not considered hacking.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Bluggo » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:09 pm UTC

keeperofdakeys wrote:technically you did do something wrong, I hope you understand that
it's good to impart wisdom but not when it is obvious the other person is going to misuse the information; even with your friends

No, technically he fucking did not.

What he did was telling a friend about a system tool which has completely legitimate uses.
Under the same rationale, if you teach me to drive and later I am found DUI should you be punished?

The fact that a school may punish teaching is despicable beyond measure.
Also, that a school also hired an abysmally inept "tech advisor" saddens me, but this was not too unexpected.

He had no reason to think that his friend would use this information to do something illegal, and as a matter of fact it is not clear to me if his friend did: was he trying to access the gradebook?
If he was, I hope the OP will take some time to explain him, in detail, what a gigantic dumbass he was.

As for what to do now, I would suggest having your parents send the board a strongly-worded letter, describing your version of what happened, why the board is in the wrong, and why their technician does not understand squat about his work.
You should also point out that that utility is part of the standard Windows distribution and that it was not disabled on the school computers.
Show them the page of the Windows manual describing it - shove it in their faces, if required! At the very least, they should ask themselves "if it is such a dangerous 'hacking tool', why is it distributed with Windows?"

If you can, find out the syllabus of a course which teaches the use of this utility, print it and attach it; if you want, you could also send an email to some cs college professor, describing the situation and asking them to declare on your behalf that teaching the use of remote access, in itself, is not "being ring-leader of an hacking group".
Bring out the big guns, the situations warrants them.

Don't be afraid to be too aggressive, but keep the tone relatively polite - you want considering-suing pissed, not reaching-for-the-broken-bottle pissed.
Maybe they will remove your punishment and maybe not, but the threat of parents raising a stink, in my experience, has a wonderful effect on overzealous school boards.
At the very least, this will discourage them from being too hasty in accusing you next time their computers crash.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby 22/7 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:49 pm UTC

Bluggo, you are completely correct. Assuming the OP is being straight with us, he did absolutely nothing wrong.

I've had some personal experience with similar situations. Essentially someone I know was punished with a 3-5 day suspension for exercising his First Amendment rights off of school property (entirely) in a way that was not related to the school. The reason you didn't get expelled or suspended for more than the 3 days you did is because they didn't have anything and were they to suspend you for a longer period of time or expel you, they'd have to present the nothing they have as grounds for expulsion and they'd have egg on their faces. My hunch is that someone who didn't know what they were looking at saw these kids "hacking" and went to the principle demanding blood, and for whatever reason, you were the one whose name came up.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:57 pm UTC

Wow.

...

That's fairly similar to why I got expelled from college. I showed some people how to log into the college labs from home (this is actually something that, as students, we're encouraged to do, so we can do homework from home). Someone then installed some sort of software that granted a lot more permissions from home, and ended up installing it on everyone's computer. One evening, I went into the lab, and sat down, and started to work, right when Lance, from home, shut off every machine in the lab.

I sighed, stood up and said "My work here is done," and left, not really aware that, to the other people in the lab, it looks like I came in, killed everyone's machine, and left. About 20 people had lost several hours of work each.

The next day, I found that my computer had been FORMATTED after I left by some of the second year students, right before the network backup. I lost all of my college work, and then the backup got rid of everything on the network. I then had to go see the chair of the department, who explained that everyone blamed me for the incident. He convinced me to drop out, so he wouldn't have to expel me.

So basically, since the CHAIR OF THE COMPUTING DEPARTMENT didn't understand what was going on, what chance do you have that your high school faculty will understand whats going on?

Just keep a low profile, and get through high school.

...

Then make them all pay.

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby 22/7 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:37 pm UTC

Wow, MJ, that story has caused a massive loss in the amount of faith I had in humanity.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby fazzone » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:24 am UTC

Wow. Just wow. This kind of reminds me of the time that i "broke" the school's software myself (i managed not to get caught). Our CAD/Robotics class (which consisted of making prisms in Google SketchUp and making a Lego RCX brick play "Smoke on the Water") teacher used a nasty little bit of software called SynchronEyes. I'm sure it is used on many other school systems' computers, as it is incredibly annoying. So I'd be happily finished with my assignment, and screwing with Photoshop, and the screen would turn black, but for the message "Eyes to the front, please" (this was all the teacher was capable of, the software had vastly more annoying features). Needless to say, i did not find being talked down to and locked out of my computer a fun experience. For a week or so, my rage simmered. Then, one say, i decided to shut down my Linux (Fedora 9) system, and saw, as always, the two lines "Sending all process the TERM signal" and "Sending all process the KILL signal". This got me thinking. The final product (exploit?) was as follows:

1) Open up all the applications you intend to use. (Windows Explorer can be used to create files and then the files can be used to open other applications)
2) Open up a blank document in Notepad or Word or something
3) Without closing your Notepad document, attempt to log off
What happenes here is that Windows sends the shutdown signal to all its processes (including the SynchronEyes daemon), before trying to gently close Notepad. Trying to close Notepad produces the "exit without saving" dialog. This dialog suspends the log off, and, after you don't do anything for about 10 seconds, the log out request times out, leaving you to enjoy your computer while everyone else is locked out.

Not being a particularly evil type myself, I was too nervous of getting caught and having exactly what happened to roflcopter happen to me. (although I suppose mine was a clear cut case of "hacking") I never much used my 'exploit', after two or three proof-of-concepts, and never told anyone.

EDIT: I'm sure roflcopter did not intend for this thread to become a place to share your school-related computer incidents, and I did not mean to make it so. As someone who has had to deal with school computer staff in the past, I extend my deepest sympathies to roflcopter.
*/

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby keeperofdakeys » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:32 am UTC

I've been told that I would be talked to for things that I have done, twice
they never actually talked to me (they were changing my documents permisions and making them unreadable, and using a teachers password once)

current exploits questionable actions I know for my schools computer system:
1. ANY application named winword.exe or excel.exe will run
2. The ftp protocol without proxy is open (so dreamweaver, no web browser)
3. word macros are allowed, including visualbasic commands
4. I can access my Documents and Settings folder, so I can put stuff in my sendto menu

I try to be as clean as possible due to my two near misses, but I still do bad things every now and again

p.s. sorry if I seemed a bit harsh before, words come out of my fingers before I have thought

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Generic Protoplasm » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:36 am UTC

My so-inept-she-fails-her-own-tests computer science teacher also used SynchronEyes. It blocked the task manager, but it took it a few seconds to realize it was open. I got used to ninja opening it with ctrl-shift-esc and then killing "dax64.exe" before it could get me. I also screw around with the html files the SynchronEyes folder in C:/ to make it look like I have actually accessed a website when it's blocked. And my flash drive's auto-run caused the screen blocker feature to minimize (you can also hit the windows key to show the taskbar, but not use it (you can also do ctrl-alt-del and hold it down to make it blink really quickly)).

Needless to say, every little thing I do gets accused of hacking the computer (but she won't do anything about it because I'm her star student).
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Okita » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:17 pm UTC

It occurs to me roflcopter that perhaps you were intentionally set up as a scapegoat. Ie. the original people who attempted to "hack in" and change their grades used you as a "he taught us how to do all these things and told us to do it". Maybe they were forced to cut a deal or something. I don't know.

Anyway, my advice is partially keeping your head down and whatnot. But y'know, it'd be a good idea to try to have a summary of what Remote Desktop is capable of and why (if any) there isn't a way for the grades to have been changed using that (because I'm pretty sure that's the case). In other words, be able to make the perceived problem they think they have go away.

This sort of thing is like having someone teach you economics but then use that information to improve your drug dealing. Cuz y'know, economics professors should be lynched for that kind of thing too.

You're also pretty screwed because it's a he said she said thing with regards to anyone who matters, your principal, and your apparently incompetent tech department. So you need to find some people who will actually listen to what you have to say first instead of trying to cover their ass. Cuz even if you get out of it by proving that everyone else is stupid, they'll just make things worse because they'll want to keep themselves from looking dumb. Probably what started this mess in the first place.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby wst » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:31 pm UTC

Network Admins often have to 'create' problems that affect lots of people or are really obvious, because if the system works smoothly it looks like they aren't doing their job. My friend was almost suspended for finding out the WiFi key, but there were at least 3 other breaches of security in the school Wifi.
1) The music department was unsecured.
2) A teacher once told a student so they could use thier laptop to get on the internet
3) I can't remember this one.

Also, the school went from the WEP key 345678901234567890123 to an 8 character WPA one. So it took no time to be cracked by various people. (My friend was only found because a person who was harrassing him for it was caught using facebook in class. He didn't even crack it, someone else told him!)

But, without hefy fuckups and a scapegoat, IT Admins lose their jobs ;)
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Iori_Yagami » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:22 am UTC

Morons with power...
you know you hate them...
:(
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby IggyJack » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:22 am UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:Wow.

...

That's fairly similar to why I got expelled from college. I showed some people how to log into the college labs from home (this is actually something that, as students, we're encouraged to do, so we can do homework from home). Someone then installed some sort of software that granted a lot more permissions from home, and ended up installing it on everyone's computer. One evening, I went into the lab, and sat down, and started to work, right when Lance, from home, shut off every machine in the lab.

I sighed, stood up and said "My work here is done," and left, not really aware that, to the other people in the lab, it looks like I came in, killed everyone's machine, and left. About 20 people had lost several hours of work each.

The next day, I found that my computer had been FORMATTED after I left by some of the second year students, right before the network backup. I lost all of my college work, and then the backup got rid of everything on the network. I then had to go see the chair of the department, who explained that everyone blamed me for the incident. He convinced me to drop out, so he wouldn't have to expel me.

So basically, since the CHAIR OF THE COMPUTING DEPARTMENT didn't understand what was going on, what chance do you have that your high school faculty will understand whats going on?

Just keep a low profile, and get through high school.

...

Then make them all pay.
Ya know, you've come after me in the past few days. For unsecure posts about things that I saw, however, this post, is fantastic. I'll give you props. I'm with mighty, make them pay. And to mighty, the chair of the computing department is a douche. Enjoy my friend.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby jakemaheu » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:56 am UTC

Ring-leader? Seriously? They don't have a chance in the world against you.

If you arrange a meeting between your principal, admin, parents, and you, then explain everything (why they are wrong, the truth) without interruptions, you should get off the hook easily.

Otherwise, sue 'em. What they're doing is total BS. Convincing students and being a ring-leader of a hacking group? You talked to one kid about Remote Desktop. If your parents know lots about computers as well, tell them first. Especially about the Remote Desktop part. They'd still need the password for the account, and the kid is still in a student account, so that part is total BS.

Just wait until something goes wrong-- something that the admin can't fix that you can. Then you can refuse and negotiate your privileges back. : D
Last edited by jakemaheu on Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:00 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Babam » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:46 am UTC

This is why people shouldn't be able to lead ANY organazation/institution that uses computers UNLESS They demonstrate REAL knowledge of the system and how it works etc.

Stuff like this makes me want to spur a geek uprising of some sort to set shit like this straight.

Hmm a non profit organization that fights for students wrongly accused of things like this would be interesting.

Geeks against the unjust treatment of students with technological knowledge?

Also this makes me
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Internetmeme » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:20 pm UTC

You totally have grounds to sue them here. And here's something to do: bring it to the local news. They just love sensationalist stories like this.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:49 pm UTC

You totally do NOT have a right to sue the school, and any attempts to do so would be sensationalist and knee jerk at best.

I know the principal and VP already demonstrated a lack of interest in dialogue, but in all seriousness, have you tried either submitting in formal writing or calmly, rationally, and non-reaction-arily (heh) a description of what you think happened?
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby jakemaheu » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:39 pm UTC

Internetmeme wrote:You totally have grounds to sue them here. And here's something to do: bring it to the local news. They just love sensationalist stories like this.


This. Do it. Now.

If you have a Faux News station, take it to them-- they exaggerate (almost) everything, badly.

Remember "hackers on steroids"?
... Wait, ignore that. DO NOT TAKE IT TO FAUX NEWS. They'll totally frame you. D:

Here's a better idea:

Talk to your parents.
Explain everything in clear, simple terms.
Tell them that you want to arrange an appointment with the principal and "tech advisor".
Schedule it.
Show up.
Transcribe your explanation beforehand.
Explain, in the same clear terms, exactly what you actually did.
Allow them to respond.
Write down key response points, to respond to later.
Prove them wrong and that you did nothing improper.
Negotiate full privileges back, while using your notes as reference points if they have objections.
????
Profit!

For bonus points, show them what Remote Desktop does and log into a computer that is about to click on a rickroll. Then click it.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Alpha Omicron » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:22 pm UTC

keeperofdakeys wrote:BURN THERE HOUSES

Burn where houses? And how about that capitalisation and terminating punctuation, eh?
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby SWGlassPit » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:16 pm UTC

CENTURION:
What's this, then? 'Romanes Eunt Domus'? 'People called Romanes they go the house'?
BRIAN:
It-- it says, 'Romans, go home'.
CENTURION:
No, it doesn't. What's Latin for 'Roman'? Come on!
BRIAN:
Aah!
CENTURION:
Come on!
BRIAN:
'R-- Romanus'?
CENTURION:
Goes like...?
BRIAN:
'Annus'?
CENTURION:
Vocative plural of 'annus' is...?
BRIAN:
Eh. 'Anni'?
CENTURION:
'Romani'. 'Eunt'? What is 'eunt'?
BRIAN:
'Go'. Let--
CENTURION:
Conjugate the verb 'to go'.
BRIAN:
Uh. 'Ire'. Uh, 'eo'. 'Is'. 'It'. 'Imus'. 'Itis'. 'Eunt'.
CENTURION:
So 'eunt' is...?
BRIAN:
Ah, huh, third person plural, uh, present indicative. Uh, 'they go'.
CENTURION:
But 'Romans, go home' is an order, so you must use the...?
BRIAN:
The... imperative!
CENTURION:
Which is...?
BRIAN:
Umm! Oh. Oh. Um, 'i'. 'I'!
CENTURION:
How many Romans?
BRIAN:
Ah! 'I'-- Plural. Plural. 'Ite'. 'Ite'.
CENTURION:
'Ite'.
BRIAN:
Ah. Eh.
CENTURION:
'Domus'?
BRIAN:
Eh.
CENTURION:
Nominative?
BRIAN:
Oh.
CENTURION:
'Go home'? This is motion towards. Isn't it, boy?
BRIAN:
Ah. Ah, dative, sir! Ahh! No, not dative! Not the dative, sir! No! Ah! Oh, the... accusative! Accusative! Ah! 'Domum', sir! 'Ad domum'! Ah! Oooh! Ah!
CENTURION:
Except that 'domus' takes the...?
BRIAN:
The locative, sir!
CENTURION:
Which is...?!
BRIAN:
'Domum'.
CENTURION:
'Domum'.
BRIAN:
Aaah! Ah.
CENTURION:
'Um'. Understand?
BRIAN:
Yes, sir.
CENTURION:
Now, write it out a hundred times.
BRIAN:
Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar, sir.
CENTURION:
Hail Caesar. If it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.
BRIAN:
Oh, thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar and everything, sir! Oh. Mmm!

Finished!
ROMAN SOLDIER STIG:
Right. Now don't do it again.
[CENTURIONS chase BRIAN]
MAN:
Hey! Bloody Romans.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:20 pm UTC

BAHAHA everytime I see that I have to read it and laugh.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Internetmeme » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:10 pm UTC

I don't get it. Is it satirizing Latin classes in school?
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:18 pm UTC

It's from the Life of Brian. Brian has just graffiti'd a wall, and got caught by a Roman Centurian, who instead of you know, arresting him, corrects his grammar. Then threatens to cut his balls off, but you know.

A lot of it is in the execution as well.
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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby sio » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:36 pm UTC

keeperofdakeys wrote:technically you did do something wrong, I hope you understand that
it's good to impart wisdom but not when it is obvious the other person is going to misuse the information; even with your friends


I disagree. Fortis est veritas. Information is a tool, and should be treated as such. Remote desktop utilities have many legitimate uses. I use VNC to pair-program with friends all the time. It was not at all obvious from the OP that the person intended to use the knowledge maliciously.

Do you know anyone reputable whose job is related to computers? A uni lecturer, research fellow, software engineer etc.? You could ask them to sit in on a meeting with the powers that be and provide some professional support.

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tell us of your horrible stories

Postby seth1010 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:40 pm UTC

Since this thread has become more of a "tell us of your horrible stories", here's mine:

My friends and I are competent computer users, and had "Computer Basics" at the same time, but all had it in different rooms. One day (after finishing the assignment in 3 minuets) I found that we had a drive on the network that anyone had read write access to (it was originally intended for some "Advanced" computers class that needed a place to store their work). I created a folder, made it hidden, and made a notepad document that I named "chat". That day after school, I told all my friends about it and the next day we all got on and had multi user chat old style (we went in turns to make sure that no one over wrote the last persons text). But sooner or later, people started figuring out about our little community and would destroy some of our work (we also used this place for group projects). I created a simple batch file that would log the user off, and shut down the computer. I named it "Important project DO NOT DELETE" (reverse-psychology) and made the icon a default folder icon. Needless to say I got turned in by the district administer for "Creating harmful and malevolent programs made to wreak havoc among the student body". However, both my parents are teachers in that district and I got off with only having to do a few hours of community service (which I spent petting cats at a private cat shelter).

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Re: Reason for expulsion?

Postby Clumpy » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:29 am UTC

In high school (9th grade) a similar thing happened to me. A student had "hacked into" (really just accessed) a publicly available shared drive and deleted some files that a teacher needed. The TA of the computer course I was taking pointed the finger at me, and the fact that I had unwisely made a point of showing off in that class with little stunts made me easy to blame. (NOTE TO SELF: If I ever find myself back in secondary school through a temporal loop do not show any talent or individuality.)

The teacher and principal threatened me with expulsion and legal action, making me feel guilty and refusing to give me any information about what I was supposed to have done wrong because, supposedly, I "already knew" (I didn't find out the specifics until much later).

Now the "hacking" involved was minimal at best - something that any schmoe could have done with Windows Explorer. The teacher really should have done a simple backup or put the most minimal security on her drive. But how do you explain that to geriatric administrators who really have no grasp of the situation other than trying to take you down?

We found out later that the TA was the one who had deleted the files. It turned out that they had only threatened me privately because they didn't have any real evidence. Needless to say, I have a greater understanding of the myriad ways school personnel exercise unjust authority over students, and feel fairly angry about this whenever I chance to think of it. I wished I had taken legal action, if only to publicize the wrongs of one person I now know to be a complete and utter douchebag and another who's merely a mindless twit. Sigh. . .

EDIT: Remote Desktop is a supported Windows utility. There's nothing wrong with sharing information about it, though people are responsible for any damage they do with it. (Still, c'mon - there'd have to be some demonstrable damage for anybody to deserve any punishment.) School administrators should have to pass computer literacy tests before prosecuting students for things that can easily be made to sound scary but are pretty benign.


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