Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

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RD6
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Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby RD6 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:25 pm UTC

I've noticed that the stereotypes we hear are mostly true. I'm not going into race; I'm talking more about branding. Surfer dudes, potheads, jocks, etc.

Examples?

Well let me start off saying, stereotypes don't come true until High School(well for the most part) which in itself a sterortype(your usual Disney teen drama flick). Examples were quite easy for me to find. This might not be in all cases, but so far most of the intranet people I know have known some of these examples.

The biatch/slut: I don't know if I'm allowed to use obscenity, but you know, w/e. 8D Most girls probably don't show their true colors 'till HS, but most of them are perverts , sometimes equal to or more than few men.

Potheads: Well this isn't a teen flick sterortype, but it is a common stereotype. Most people get high off of weed, not that I'm against it(no chron here folks), but it shocks me how many do it.

Jocks: This is probably the biggest one and the most common one. Although they don't run around the school with football jackets whipping out their hammers they call arms into a nerd making them fly 20 feet, you still see some sort of faggotry. They mostly think they're superior, tease on others, thinking they're cool by being bullies. For instance, I saw some kid getting robbed of 20 dollars and his iPod. Before you say anything about I should notify someone, I don't care about that shit. I'm an observer, and that's mostly it.

It's suprising the younger you are, the more intelligent and less faggoty you are.

Any other sterotypes you guys know?

I don't know why I'm typing this, either.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby curuinor » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:49 am UTC

You've noticed. Stereotypes are all based on perception. This is why marketing was and remains the greatest progenitor of stereotypes today. There are self-described jocks in my multivariate calculus class, and they are decent people.

(I'm in secondary school, by the way.)

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Cynical Idealist » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:15 am UTC

RD6 wrote:I've noticed that the stereotypes we hear are mostly true. I'm not going into race; I'm talking more about branding. Surfer dudes, potheads, jocks, etc.

Examples?

Well let me start off saying, stereotypes don't come true until High School(well for the most part) which in itself a sterortype(your usual Disney teen drama flick). Examples were quite easy for me to find. This might not be in all cases, but so far most of the intranet people I know have known some of these examples.

The biatch/slut: I don't know if I'm allowed to use obscenity, but you know, w/e. 8D Most girls probably don't show their true colors 'till HS, but most of them are perverts , sometimes equal to or more than few men.

Potheads: Well this isn't a teen flick sterortype, but it is a common stereotype. Most people get high off of weed, not that I'm against it(no chron here folks), but it shocks me how many do it.

Jocks: This is probably the biggest one and the most common one. Although they don't run around the school with football jackets whipping out their hammers they call arms into a nerd making them fly 20 feet, you still see some sort of faggotry. They mostly think they're superior, tease on others, thinking they're cool by being bullies. For instance, I saw some kid getting robbed of 20 dollars and his iPod. Before you say anything about I should notify someone, I don't care about that shit. I'm an observer, and that's mostly it.

It's suprising the younger you are, the more intelligent and less faggoty you are.

Any other sterotypes you guys know?

I don't know why I'm typing this, either.

There's the one about how people who use derivatives of the word "fag" as an insult are likely to be less intelligent and more bigoted.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Mokele » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:53 am UTC

Or maybe being confined in an artificial, compulsory way that forces continual repeat contact between a small pool of individuals with incompletely developed minds and personalities results in an abnormal social system emphasizing stronger conformity and more intra-group conflict that seen in wider society.

Short version - high school is nothing like real life, especially socially.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby zug » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:55 am UTC

Whose obviously bored obvious sockpuppet is this?
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Mr. Freeman » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:20 am UTC

RD6 wrote:Before you say anything about I should notify someone, I don't care about that shit


You should have notified someone. If you don't care then why did you mention it?

I've noticed a lot of stereotypes at my high school as well. They're much less noticeable at the college I'm at. (Probably because everyone here fits into the "nerd" stereotype, but that's not a bad thing.) I noticed the jocks that are assholes, the emo kids that pretend to have such a horrible life when they really don't know how good they have it and are just looking for drama, the cheerleaders that can't comprehend basic concepts the 10th time it's explained because they've been texting people non-stop, etc.

You make education compulsory and throw everyone into the same school, is it really a surprise that you end up with different groups of people like this?

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Hamorad » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:17 am UTC

I am shocked and appalled by this revelation but I have good news. I saw a movie about a book the other day called nineteen eighty equilibrium four fifty one and it really opened my eyes to how great the world would be if everyone was exactly the same man that would be great.

Everyone needs a place to fit in, you know. That's the whole point of stereotypes. Also Mokele those cliques and social circles remain for pretty much your entire life; High School just puts it all in one convenient package so you get a whole lot of the experience but don't learn much of anything from it, much like it does with education. High School is like if we took your entire social life for your entire existence and packed it into 4 years so you could experience a lot more horrible things during that time.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Mokele » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:59 pm UTC

Honestly, if you think high school reflects reality, you probably need to get out more. You can only shoehorn people into those cliques if you stop at the most superficial level of examination, rather than actually getting to know or understand people.

Get out of the house more, interact with a wider range of people, and you'll find things aren't as simple as you think.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby lulzfish » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:55 pm UTC

tl;dr:
"I found out that I can put people into groups and then claim that they fit those groups"

Riveting. Have you drawn any conclusions from this, or did you just want to dump an unfinished thought here and watch us talk about it?

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Masily box » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:07 pm UTC

RD6 wrote:The biatch/slut: I don't know if I'm allowed to use obscenity, but you know, w/e. 8D Most girls probably don't show their true colors 'till HS, but most of them are perverts , sometimes equal to or more than few men.


I'm not exactly sure what you meant to convey by this, but all that I get from it is that you don't have a very high opinion of women. Or of anyone who isn't straight, given some of your other language.

Why?

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:32 pm UTC

In other news, if you have bigoted and narrow expectations of people, you will be able to pick out the details that fit your preconceived notion of reality. More on this at 11.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby RD6 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:26 pm UTC

Lol, I'm no sockpuppet. This was somewhat trolly, but I felt the urge to post here. After all, I was leeching once in a while.

But lol@all of you.
You can close this thread/dlete it, if you guys want. irdc

But this won't happen again. I dunno, I was in a random mood. Sorry.
This cheese is burning me is equivalent to 'laughing out loud'? Interesting. haha

Edit: Well, since some of you are taking this seriously, I guess my elaborate on my somewhat serious to make a thread. Pretty much what I'm saying, is that people are not unique and special as I thought they were, making this mostly an opinion thread. And yeah, it doesn't reflect real life outside of school.

But I'm just dissapointed at how drastcally people change from middle school(I am a freshman, but don't think I'm idiotic for posting this thread, I'm somewhat smart. I just guess I started off on the wrong foot), to high school. It's not exactly a rant, but if you want, consider it to be. And the word 'fag' is a simple derogatory term used to describe someone you don't like. Common slang, convenience, etc.

Also, my expectations were quite the opposite. I expected a diverse and a somewhat normal place without being exposed to stereotypes. I guess just the theory of a similar and small world just doesn't allow me to be content. What I hear shouldn't be my reality.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby lulzfish » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:52 pm UTC

RD6 wrote:Pretty much what I'm saying, is that people are not unique and special as I thought they were,


Actually, they are, but they tend to reduce themselves to common interests that are shared with whoever they're talking to.
You must have thought people were extremely unique. Or maybe you're thinking people aren't as alone as you thought?

Either way, they will fall into groups, since people are rarely alone. You have to form a group to do any social activity.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby RD6 » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:13 am UTC

lulzfish wrote:
RD6 wrote:Pretty much what I'm saying, is that people are not unique and special as I thought they were,


Actually, they are, but they tend to reduce themselves to common interests that are shared with whoever they're talking to.
You must have thought people were extremely unique. Or maybe you're thinking people aren't as alone as you thought?

Either way, they will fall into groups, since people are rarely alone. You have to form a group to do any social activity.


Hmm, I guess, but I'm directing my point to the groups themselves, not the people. It's just disappointing that the groups are not unique. I didn't think everyone was extremely unique, but enough so that common stereotypes don't reflect into their personalities largely. It's somewhat sad when stereotypes come true, because then you predict what the person will do, making the world a boring and an inconstructive place. And of course this can be tied to politics, the work place, and in much more situations. I'm not branding a person, but I can't help putting them together when they want to branded by joining a group. Also, I agree on the fact people join a group to be social/have friends.

It all ties into psychological and moralistic aspects. Psychology makes you want to be part of a group/be identified as part of that group, and morals make people who brand wrong, which is contradictory. But of course, there are levels of stereotyping, from thinking certain religions(Muslim, to target something specific) will always do terrorizing acts, to thinking a ruffian gang has the same probability of commiting a crime as a charity donor or a blood donor.

Wow, that was a lot of thoughts. Some of them were cut before I could finish the thought, so sorry. :/

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Cynical Idealist » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:18 am UTC

RD6 wrote:(I am a freshman, but don't think I'm idiotic for posting this thread, I'm somewhat smart. I just guess I started off on the wrong foot).

I don't think you're an idiot for posting this thread. I do think you come off as a bit stupid*, but it isn't just for posting this thread. The reasons that I can think of off the top of my head:
  • Using homophobic slurs to describe anything you don't like.
  • Blatant sexism.
  • The hypocrisy of claiming not to care about something at all when you quite clearly cared enough to post about it and use it as evidence to affirm a negative stereotype
  • The inability to spell properly, especially when using a computer.
  • Poor grammar.
  • An apparent belief that growing older makes you both less smart and more homosexual.


*While I was writing this, you've made another post that is a bit more coherent. Still, your first two posts have created a fairly firm impression, and first impressions count for a lot.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby RD6 » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:33 am UTC

Cynical Idealist wrote:
RD6 wrote:(I am a freshman, but don't think I'm idiotic for posting this thread, I'm somewhat smart. I just guess I started off on the wrong foot).

I don't think you're an idiot for posting this thread. I do think you come off as a bit stupid*, but it isn't just for posting this thread. The reasons that I can think of off the top of my head:
  • Using homophobic slurs to describe anything you don't like.
  • Blatant sexism.
  • The hypocrisy of claiming not to care about something at all when you quite clearly cared enough to post about it and use it as evidence to affirm a negative stereotype
  • The inability to spell properly, especially when using a computer.
  • Poor grammar.
  • An apparent belief that growing older makes you both less smart and more homosexual.


*While I was writing this, you've made another post that is a bit more coherent. Still, your first two posts have created a fairly firm impression, and first impressions count for a lot.


-Remember, I was trolly. I rarely use curse words, aside from the occasional words that spurt out. And if they do, I'm sorry.
-Sexism? Oh no. I hold high respect to women. Maybe one of my silly examples made you think that, but I respect women more than I respect men. They're....interesting(aside from the sexual view, of course).
-Hmm, well, this I don't think I can say anything, aside from the fact that this was a somewhat trolly(repeat) and somewhat serious. I would have obviously taken a different method into presenting my ideas, if I weren't so trolly(like what, the 7th time I said this?).
-As long as you can understand it, there in't much reason to check over my posts. It saves me time, and I still get to send my idea across.
-This is the same as above. If I were to write an essay, I wouldn't use fragments and commas.
-Well, I don't know when I said this, but if you inferred from something I said, I didn't mean it. Obviously you grow mature as you age(well, with exceptions).

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby zug » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:35 am UTC

lurk more. If you'd read around for half an hour you'd know how trolls are welcomed around these parts.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:37 am UTC

And the word 'fag' is a simple derogatory term used to describe someone you don't like. Common slang, convenience, etc.

Right, this is a notion you would do well to disabuse yourself of. There are a billion ways to insult someone; please try and find one that doesn't simultaneously put down 4% of the US population. (That's just the number who self-identified in the 2008 exit polls, by the way. The real number could be a good deal higher.)
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Durin » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:27 am UTC

RD6 wrote:The biatch/slut: I don't know if I'm allowed to use obscenity, but you know, w/e. 8D Most girls probably don't show their true colors 'till HS, but most of them are perverts , sometimes equal to or more than few men.


What men and women aren't polar opposites on everything? Where did you find such blasphemous thinking. As for the sluttiness, well it takes two to have sex, bro.

RD6 wrote:Potheads: Well this isn't a teen flick sterortype, but it is a common stereotype. Most people get high off of weed, not that I'm against it(no chron here folks), but it shocks me how many do it.

I'll give you this one. I was quite surprised at this,

RD6 wrote:Jocks: This is probably the biggest one and the most common one. Although they don't run around the school with football jackets whipping out their hammers they call arms into a nerd making them fly 20 feet, you still see some sort of faggotry. They mostly think they're superior, tease on others, thinking they're cool by being bullies. For instance, I saw some kid getting robbed of 20 dollars and his iPod. Before you say anything about I should notify someone, I don't care about that shit. I'm an observer, and that's mostly it.

This, in my experience, is wrong. Maybe it's because all the jocks I come in repeated contact with are in advanced courses but I've never seen a jock doing any stereotypically jocky thing to the band kids or the nerds. I mean there are some douchebags, but this exists across various groups.

RD6 wrote:It's suprising the younger you are, the more intelligent and less faggoty you are.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. WRONG. Innocence does not equal intelligence.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Two-Fry » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:57 am UTC

Can we all stop flaming RD6 for a second here? He does have a valid point and shouting Oh me yarm!!!1! STEREOTYPES R EVIL AND U R HOMOPHOBIC!1!!!!1!111 won't do much of anything to promote intelligent discourse. While talking about slutty girls he never denies that men can also be sluts, is it just possible that since he is a male he tends to notice the female sluts more? While the OP did suffer from tragically bad phrasing, it does raise a good point about the role of stereotypes in school life, and while it may have been made with the knowledge that it would offend some people it is in no way pure troll or flamebait. And the author is definitely not being homophobic. In my experience, fag and faggot have become all purpose insults, and are more often synonymous with douchebaggery than homosexuality.
podbaydoor wrote:^What this person said.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Masily box » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:01 am UTC

RD6 wrote:And the word 'fag' is a simple derogatory term used to describe someone you don't like. Common slang, convenience, etc.


Sir Elderberry already said it, but it's really important, so it's worth saying again:

You may think that this is true. Hopefully you'll admit, though, that you can't speak for the experiences of people who aren't straight, many of whom do feel that using "fag" and "gay" as insults are blatantly offensive to the GLBT community, and often deeply hurtful on a personal level as well. If you're straight yourself, and if you have no close friends who are out, this may be a completely invisible issue to you.

It's hard to argue that "gay" and "fag" are just generic insults, divorced from their sexual meanings, when you often hear elaborations of the insults such as "that's gayer than buttseks" or "that's so homosexual". Clearly a usage like this relies on the perceived undesirability of being gay for the epithet to be insulting.

Even if not everyone uses these terms in that way, enough people do that it's still an active meaning of the word. When a word that describes a (relatively private, often sensitive, and usually) core element of your self-identity is used as if that aspect of your identity is itself a bad thing, that has a way of warping your psyche. Especially in middle/high school while you're still trying to figure yourself out.

So please reconsider whether "faggot" is really an ok way to insult things.


Also, please note that this has nothing to do with me policing your language, or forcing you to be Basically Decent, or whatever. I have no authority to force you not to use any words. I'm just pointing out that your usage of words may have very negative consequences that you may be unaware of, and appealing to your sense of human decency in asking you to reconsider.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Two-Fry » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:09 am UTC

Masily box wrote:
RD6 wrote:And the word 'fag' is a simple derogatory term used to describe someone you don't like. Common slang, convenience, etc.


Sir Elderberry already said it, but it's really important, so it's worth saying again:

You may think that this is true. Hopefully you'll admit, though, that you can't speak for the experiences of people who aren't straight, many of whom do feel that using "fag" and "gay" as insults are blatantly offensive to the GLBT community, and often deeply hurtful on a personal level as well. If you're straight yourself, and if you have no close friends who are out, this may be a completely invisible issue to you.

It's hard to argue that "gay" and "fag" are just generic insults, divorced from their sexual meanings, when you often hear elaborations of the insults such as "that's gayer than buttseks" or "that's so homosexual". Clearly a usage like this relies on the perceived undesirability of being gay for the epithet to be insulting.

Even if not everyone uses these terms in that way, enough people do that it's still an active meaning of the word. When a word that describes a (relatively private, often sensitive, and usually) core element of your self-identity is used as if that aspect of your identity is itself a bad thing, that has a way of warping your psyche. Especially in middle/high school while you're still trying to figure yourself out.

So please reconsider whether "faggot" is really an ok way to insult things.


Also, please note that this has nothing to do with me policing your language, or forcing you to be Basically Decent, or whatever. I have no authority to force you not to use any words. I'm just pointing out that your usage of words may have very negative consequences that you may be unaware of, and appealing to your sense of human decency in asking you to reconsider.

So you CHOOSE to automatically assume that when someone says fag/faggot they intend to insult every single gay/bisexual on the face of the planet?

How about this, I stop saying fag/faggot, and if someone says fag/faggot to you, you don't get offended?

Edit: On topic, anyone notice this stereotype applying very well on these forums?
podbaydoor wrote:^What this person said.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:23 am UTC

It doesn't matter if you intend to insult anyone or not. You're literally using one of the most important parts of their being as an insult. At that point, what you intend is rather irrelevant compared to what you're actually doing.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby zug » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:26 am UTC

Two-Fry wrote:
Masily box wrote:
RD6 wrote:And the word 'fag' is a simple derogatory term used to describe someone you don't like. Common slang, convenience, etc.


Sir Elderberry already said it, but it's really important, so it's worth saying again:

You may think that this is true. Hopefully you'll admit, though, that you can't speak for the experiences of people who aren't straight, many of whom do feel that using "fag" and "gay" as insults are blatantly offensive to the GLBT community, and often deeply hurtful on a personal level as well. If you're straight yourself, and if you have no close friends who are out, this may be a completely invisible issue to you.

It's hard to argue that "gay" and "fag" are just generic insults, divorced from their sexual meanings, when you often hear elaborations of the insults such as "that's gayer than buttseks" or "that's so homosexual". Clearly a usage like this relies on the perceived undesirability of being gay for the epithet to be insulting.

Even if not everyone uses these terms in that way, enough people do that it's still an active meaning of the word. When a word that describes a (relatively private, often sensitive, and usually) core element of your self-identity is used as if that aspect of your identity is itself a bad thing, that has a way of warping your psyche. Especially in middle/high school while you're still trying to figure yourself out.

So please reconsider whether "faggot" is really an ok way to insult things.


Also, please note that this has nothing to do with me policing your language, or forcing you to be Basically Decent, or whatever. I have no authority to force you not to use any words. I'm just pointing out that your usage of words may have very negative consequences that you may be unaware of, and appealing to your sense of human decency in asking you to reconsider.

So you CHOOSE to automatically assume that when someone says fag/faggot they intend to insult every single gay/bisexual on the face of the planet?

How about this, I stop saying fag/faggot, and if someone says fag/faggot to you, you don't get offended?

Edit: On topic, anyone notice this stereotype applying very well on these forums?

You must be new here.

1) How about you stop telling other people what they can and can't find offensive?
2) Also, when you use words that a significant number of people find offensive, we're going to call you an insensitive douchenozzle because that's what you are. It's a term that may offend you, as that is my intention. And notice that I can insult you without marginalizing as much as 10% of our population.
3) Google "straight privilege" and read, really read what you find.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Masily box » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:27 am UTC

First of all, who said I got "offended"? I personally don't feel hurt by this usage of "gay"/"faggot". I still recognize that other people are.

Second, I don't "choose" to asssume anything about what anyone means. Here's my reasoning, again: many of my GLBT friends have told me that the use of insults like "gay" make their life worse on multiple levels. This may not have been any given speaker's intention, but by and large it does seem to give expression to the fact that society at large looks down on you if you aren't straight. (Or do you deny that homophobia is a problem in society alltogether?)

I'm asking you (and the OP) to recognize that, as a straight person, you probably don't have to encounter a lot of the problems that a gay person does on a daily basis. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt that they can accurately describe their own life experiences?

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Mokele » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:32 am UTC

So you CHOOSE to automatically assume that when someone says fag/faggot they intend to insult every single gay/bisexual on the face of the planet?


And you choose to be willfully ignorant of the fact that using a term for a group of people as an insult/slur/expression of disdain just might actually be offensive to that that group.

That you've failed to pull your head out of your privileged, straight male rectum does not mean there is any meaningful objection to this concept.

Tell you what - when you've been attacked and severely beaten for your sexual orientation, then you can use 'gay' as a insult. Until then, sit down and shut up.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Masily box » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:44 am UTC

Guys, remember, we're discussing an issue here--it's natural that we don't all start from the same point of view. We're not here to fight.

To try to get back on topic, my own experience doesn't bear out the notion that stereotypes/cliques suddenly develop during high school--I saw plenty of that in middle school (if I remember at all accurately). The reason that stereotypes seem so true is that (as many have observed in this thread) group identity is a really powerful way of defining your own personal identity. (It's also an incredibly problematic one, from my perspective, leading easily to racism/nationalism/sexism and all sorts of other fun stuff. But we all do it, so we might as well own up to it.) The thing to keep in mind is that no matter what categorization system we use, it will always include only a certain set of parameters and ignore others; there's no reason to think that a classification based on height and astrological sign will have anything to say about your opinion on zombies/vampires. I just wish I'd realized this more when I was younger--people actually turn out to be pretty interesting, and never quite what you'd expect. [So basically I don't have anything meaningful to say here; I'm just vamping...]

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby CombustibleLemons » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:59 am UTC

I'm confused becuase i hang out with certain people at school but i can talk to most people if need be anytime so what does that mean about what stereotype I fall into.(Whitch i have no idea what it is.)
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby RD6 » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:08 am UTC

When did this become a thread about word usage morals?

As for the word fag, sure the word is derogatory, but it's a common thing for slang to do. Once people start to use words more often, it just becomes a common to use it even more often. Maybe the first couple of people intended homosexuality abuse, but no people of now. It's sad that it just becomes a natural way of communication, but don't blame me or any other person who uses 'fag', but blame the first ones who used it, who have made it actually an educational term that most people learn and use.

But if you want to continue on about morals and whatnot, create another thread elsewhere, and debate. I've no problem.

Also to quote masily box on his last comment, stereotyping is used as a 'surface judging'(imho, at least), a way to brand people according to what you see on the outside. Then again, you can't help brand someone as a jerk for picking on an innocent guy. I'm pretty sure this is from some book or something, but your actions determine who you are(leading into morals again, sorry, can't help it, it's stereotyping after all). I'm not saying that all the jock like people I see are acting like they do as I percieve them, but branding and classifying is what that is. It's pretty much what you see other people as. Streotypes start to form when a group starts to agree, and there we go: we have a stereotype which people start to use.

It's all about how you fit in. You can't stand alone(you won't live long in the world), so whatever group you join it's a stereotype of some sort or the other. People will always judge you in some way, so you can't avoid being stereotyped in some way, even if it's positive. Once you join a group, they become your identity, and they are the main reason for you being stereotyped. No one atually 'starts' the stereotype, it's just how things are. People are different, and stereotypes will always take advantage of that, and those stereotypes continue to build until they become so common they become true.

@amishdemon: It's not about a certian stereotype(ignore my first post, you'll help yourself), but you in a point of view of others. Of course if you are predictable enough and join a group that is stereotyped well, you will obviously fit into a stereotype. It's all about people sharing the same point of views, and creating stereotypes.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:16 am UTC

RD6 wrote:As for the word fag, sure the word is derogatory, but it's a common thing for slang to do. Once people start to use words more often, it just becomes a common to use it even more often. Maybe the first couple of people intended homosexuality abuse, but no people of now. It's sad that it just becomes a natural way of communication, but don't blame me or any other person who uses 'fag', but blame the first ones who used it, who have made it actually an educational term that most people learn and use.

You can't sit there and say "this is regrettable, this shouldn't happen", and then become a willing participant in the process. Either it's morally wrong to equate homosexuality with an insult, or it's alright. And if I think it's morally wrong and a bad thing for our culture to spread, then yes, I will blame you for perpetuating it.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Masily box » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:17 am UTC

RD6 wrote:...but don't blame me or any other person who uses 'fag', but blame the first ones who used it...


This isn't about what you mean when you use it, it's about what you accomplish by using it. And one of those things you accomplish, whether you're aware of it or not, is the collateral hurt (not just "offense" or "insult") done to innocent people. I suppose I can't convince you that this is so, but if you continue to use words in a way that you know is hurtful to others (or remain willfully ignorant that it is), you can bet your pants that I'm going to blame you for it.

As for how this came to be a discussion of word usage: you used a word problematically, and someone else called it to your attention. We can take this discussion elsewhere, but my goal is to reach an understanding with you--would you move over to and participate in another thread?

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby RD6 » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:36 am UTC

It's all about what you learn. My education(not my school, but my life, to be more specific) has taught me that the word 'fag' is used many times and is alright. Of course, my school doesn't teach me this(considering they're highly moralistic), but the people around me did. You are allowed to blame me and try to teach me otherwise, but that's what your teachings has taught you. You are trying to argue with me about what I think, and I can do vice versa. It's simple debate.

I'm not justifying myself for what I did, and I know that what i did was wrong, but then again, my education taught me to use that word commonly, and to be honest, what I'm reading, is part of my education. So, bringing it down to morals is never the conclusion logically, since they are biased, but bringing the situation in which you can reach the most objective happiness is, even if it means morals are used.

I'm saying morals are only right if they provide the most objective happiness. Once again, I know saying 'fag' is wrong, but once again, my education teahes me otherwise. Convincing me that it is wrong, will teach me more about my morals and what I think of the world.

In other words, debating about something morally right is wrong but debating something for objective happiness is right. So, if you think the world is most happy without 'fag', I'll try my best to remove it my speech. If not, you still can convince me with an argument.

Anyways, back to topic. Image

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby zug » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:41 am UTC

It's not a debate. You're an asshole douchefuck for continuing to use that word after we had this little conversation, whereas saying it before just made you very ignorant.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:47 am UTC

In other words, debating about something morally right is wrong but debating something for objective happiness is right. So, if you think the world is most happy without 'fag', I'll try my best to remove it my speech. If not, you still can convince me with an argument.

First of all, Immanuel Kant wants a word with you on your view on ethics.

Second of all, you gain no happiness from using the word "fag". Any other insult would work just as well, unless you're specifically trying to demean homosexuals, which I think we can all agree is wrong. On the other hand, your use of the word does demean and cause psychological harm to those who are homosexual, causing pain. So your utilitarian argument fails too.

And "it's the way I have learned things" is a blatant appeal to tradition, not an argument. You haven't even stated any moral justification for what you're doing, you're just saying "Yeah, it's wrong. But I'm used to it." Man, you know what I was used to? Homosexuality being straight-up illegal. I mean, it may have been wrong, but that's how they educated them to think, right?
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Box Boy » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:27 pm UTC

Hey, can we stop the arguing over using the word "Fag" as it has been done to death in other parts of the forum?
Instead, how about we rant about/discuss/express our opinions on stereotypes in School and their effects?

I've noticed that the usual "nerd" stereotype isn't exactly present in my school, a lot of the people who get consistently good grades are either child-geniuses capable of speaking five languages (yeah, I know three of them) or only do so in a few subjects. As far as I know no-one in my year is interested in maths or computers except for two people (and even then only because they like hacking online games such as Runescape).
I have also noticed that the people who get super high grades in only a few subjects tend to be more artistic and fulfil the "Rocker" stereotype quite well. I'm kind of proud to say that I am one of them, I'm great at history, English (For the love of god don’t flame my grammar, I'm only fourteen and I don't know every in and out of the language just yet but I try my best), Business Studies and very good at geography.
So yeah, I'll talk about the other stereotypes I've noticed in a follow up post.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby the tree » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:45 pm UTC

I think when I was in high school all the indie kids/rockers/whatever pretty consistently got higher grades than the 'nerds', which was never that surprising. People went for the position of Teachers Pet or I'mTooIntelligentToSocialiseWithThesePlebs rarely were super geniuses (which in retrospect, was pretty obvious).

The whole stoner thing was a club for outside of school, which didn't really operate under the same rules because it didn't have the factors that made school so schoolish, I'm not even sure what the stoner stereotype is. I guess the stoner-chav is fairly well defined, but a lot more people where into the drugs scene than them.

Of course, some people where always more prone to 'seeing' stereotypes than others. "hey, what are you doing here? you're not a rebel." was something said to me outside of the headmistress' office by someone that I would have put down as one of the more conformist people.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Mokele » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:47 pm UTC

Hey, can we stop the arguing over using the word "Fag" as it has been done to death in other parts of the forum?


Bigotry cannot be given free pass. Vigorously opposing it is the only way to stop it. If you let it slide, you're as bad as those who use it, because you contribute to the atmosphere of acceptability.

Do you want to be part of the problem, or the solution?

Also, I notice the OP has refused to apologize and promise not to use it anymore. If anyone is keeping this alive, it's his stubbon adherence to his bigotry.

Instead, how about we rant about/discuss/express our opinions on stereotypes in School and their effects?


What's to discuss? It's been already covered - at best, they fail at anything more than the most superficial level, and worst, they're simply evidence of the OP's cognitive bias and fixiation on only seeing information which supports his claims. Regardless, they fall apart once out of the unusual social environment of HS. Beyond this, there's no real 'discussion' of any sort.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby the tree » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:50 pm UTC

Mokele wrote:Regardless, they fall apart once out of the unusual social environment of HS. Beyond this, there's no real 'discussion' of any sort.
Honestly I think that's a fairly interesting phenomenon - why exactly is it that HS encourages pigeon holing?

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Box Boy » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:53 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Mokele wrote:Bigotry cannot be given free pass. Vigorously opposing it is the only way to stop it. If you let it slide, you're as bad as those who use it, because you contribute to the atmosphere of acceptability.

Yeah, so how about you take it up in PMs where it won't affect those of us who'd like to not have this argument again?
Mokele wrote:Do you want to be part of the problem, or the solution?

Being neutral to an argument which has been had at least a dozen times on this forum doesn't make me part of the problem.
Mokele wrote:Also, I notice the OP has refused to apologize and promise not to use it anymore. If anyone is keeping this alive, it's his stubbon adherence to his bigotry.
You continuing the argument makes you part of the problem as well. (This is the last time I'm posting about this)

Mokele wrote:What's to discuss? It's been already covered - at best, they fail at anything more than the most superficial level, and worst, they're simply evidence of the OP's cognitive bias and fixiation on only seeing information which supports his claims.
Yeah, i do realise that they may be considered "bad", but I have to admit that they are amazingly prelevant in schools, and since this is a school forum I think it's okay to assume they should be discussed.
Mokele wrote:Regardless, they fall apart once out of the unusual social environment of HS. Beyond this, there's no real 'discussion' of any sort.
How about their effects on people while they are in school? You seem to have forgotten that.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby RD6 » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:20 pm UTC

Mokele wrote:
Hey, can we stop the arguing over using the word "Fag" as it has been done to death in other parts of the forum?


Bigotry cannot be given free pass. Vigorously opposing it is the only way to stop it. If you let it slide, you're as bad as those who use it, because you contribute to the atmosphere of acceptability.

Do you want to be part of the problem, or the solution?

Also, I notice the OP has refused to apologize and promise not to use it anymore. If anyone is keeping this alive, it's his stubbon adherence to his bigotry.

Instead, how about we rant about/discuss/express our opinions on stereotypes in School and their effects?


What's to discuss? It's been already covered - at best, they fail at anything more than the most superficial level, and worst, they're simply evidence of the OP's cognitive bias and fixiation on only seeing information which supports his claims. Regardless, they fall apart once out of the unusual social environment of HS. Beyond this, there's no real 'discussion' of any sort.


*cough*I remember saying sorry and saying I'll try my best not to use it.*cough*

This is an opinion question, in which stereotypes you see, and not whether or not to support me in my views. ALSO, OBVIOUSLY THE STEREOTYPES ARE IN HIGH SCHOOL. THIS IS A SCHOOL FORUM AND I'VE MENTIONED 'HIGH SCHOOL' NUMEROUSLY.


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