Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:28 pm UTC

My high school experience has done more to dismantle my notion of stereotypes than the opposite. My friend who performs just as well as me at calculus and introduced me to D&D? Is a charismatic womanizer who's also a top-rate public speaker, not a shy nerd at all.. The people on the football team? Lots of them are in my AP classes and have as valuable insights as anyone else. I know a stoner, he's also getting his degree in electrical engineering and working his ass off, hardly lazy.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Mo0man » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:38 pm UTC

You said you're a freshman. And labour day was THIS WEEK. So clearly you've decided to meet these people and talk to them before judging them by the company that they hold and the groups that they hang out with.
Two-Fry wrote:Edit: On topic, anyone notice this stereotype applying very well on these forums?
Actually, since you're the more conservative voice in what looks like a pretty liberal thread, I think that one applies more to you. Maybe you should read the actual page.

Also, damnit you linked to TVtropes
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby RD6 » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:21 pm UTC

Mo0man wrote:You said you're a freshman. And labour day was THIS WEEK. So clearly you've decided to meet these people and talk to them before judging them by the company that they hold and the groups that they hang out with.
Two-Fry wrote:Edit: On topic, anyone notice this stereotype applying very well on these forums?
Actually, since you're the more conservative voice in what looks like a pretty liberal thread, I think that one applies more to you. Maybe you should read the actual page.

Also, damnit you linked to TVtropes


Well, firstly, 8D.

Secondly, I'm basing the opinion on all of my past startings of school, and noticed this one was more drastic. Sure, it was premature of me, but I'm just saying what I've noticed. It's not like I won't give the people I judged a second chance. Still, yeah, I've posted this too early. But hey, I got a hell lot of replies. 8D

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Belial » Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:51 pm UTC

Hi everybody. This is the school forum. Not Homophobia'n'misogyny R Us.

RD6, cut it out.

Everyone else, good looking out, but shut up now.

Go back to talking about highschool movie cliques, k?
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Dibley » Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:28 pm UTC

Not really a highschool thing, but I'm somewhat loosely tied to the furry fandom, and while a huge portion of them aren't stereotypical at all, another huge portion fits the stereotypes to a tee. That doesn't necessarily keep them from being nice people, though.

In college stereotypical cliques are present, but are much more loosely defined. The only one that has been consistent for me so far is the "Frat Bro", but that could well be because there aren't many of those at my school, so I rarely encounter them. There are a few others, like one of my girlfriend's friends is a typical long haired enormous bearded barefoot vegetarian raw foodist hippie that walks/bikes everywhere and wears the cliched clothing.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Internetmeme » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:52 am UTC

Okay, this thread really needs an injection with some common sense before it degenerates into just another flame-fest, especially now that it will be locked if it degenerates into more homophobia. This thread has so much potential to be a very good, clear, and concise discussion of the various tendencies of individuals and groups and why we commonly perceive them like that. I'm gonna try to not sound bombastic through this whole thing.

Section 1: Definition of Stereotype
Wiktionary wrote:Noun
1. A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
2. A person who is regarded as embodying or conforming to a set image or type.
3. (printing) A metal printing plate cast from a matrix molded from a raised printing surface.

Verb
1. (transitive): To make a stereotype of someone or something, or characterize someone by a stereotype.
2. (transitive): To print from a stereotype.


By definition, a stereotype is a preconceived notion of someone that is oversimplified. No one individual will exhibit the collective characteristics of the whole preconceived group.

Section 2: Classic Stereotypes Defined
There are several stereotypes that one will typically observe being imposed on television, the internet, and media in general.
*The Nerd: Often portrayed as an unattractive white male, often wearing a plaid, collared shirt, and often carrying a calculator and/or computer device. In actual society, these people are often honors students, and there are many, many subgroups such as "Music Nerds", "Internet Nerds", "Math Nerds", and "Computer Geeks", with each blending into each other, with the lines between each and every one becoming more and more blurred with every individual.
*The White Supremacist: A bigoted white male, often middle-aged with a shaved head, who are oftentimes the antagonists in the feel-good movie of the summer. In actual society, these petulant bastards come in any form, and there have even been cases of reverse-racism where Caucasians were discriminated against. More-so, racism is usually a very quiet act and is usually anonymous.
*The Gangster: Often portrayed as an African-American or Hispanic male, clustering in groups dealing drugs and causing a mess for everyone else. This is the only stereotype that I have ever observed to be close to the truth, although there are several white-supremacist prison gangs. Hell, even the Nazis or KKK would count as gangs, although they do not even remotely display these traits; they are a sub-trope of this phenomenon. A likely reason for the stereotypical gangster is that the majority of African-Americans are clustered around the major cities due to the "white-flight" phenomenon. Only recently has it been illegalized to discriminate against anyone for housing, which also is a contributory factor. Because the inner-city is often a dangerous place, people will band together. The orphans and urchins of the early 1900s would often be seen in gangs doing much the same things as the stereotypical gangster aside from dealing (then-legal) drugs.
*The Preppie: Often portrayed as a stuck-up bitch who does very well in school. In real life, these are few and far between as they are generally unpleasant to be around. I have never encountered any of these.
*The Jock: Often portrayed as a football team-member, who clusters in groups and picks on the "Nerd" group. They never encounter "The Gangster" in any media. In real-life, "Jocks" are usually very friendly, and will even do "wimpy" activities such as singing in a chorus, as is personally experience to me.
*The Cheerleader: Often portrayed as a beautiful stuck-up bitch who is trying her hardest to get through school. In real life, the majority of them are very smart and will befriend anyone who is nice. The gender, however, still applies, likely due to American culture's repulse of anyone and anything not heterosexual.
*The Gay: Often seen as obviously and openly gay in the media. In real life, it is extremely hard to tell a difference unless it is a transsexual cross-dressing. In fact, the girl that I wanted to date one year turned out to be a lesbian before I could even ask her out. That, in itself should be proof that the stereotype does not fit.
*The Asshole: Often seen as a jerk who goes out of his way to fuck things up for everyone else. In reality, this is probably an extremely rare phenomenon,
ikely limited to people who have social problems, such as Aspergers or Autism.
*The Couple: Often portrayed as that age-old sex hungry couple who steal away every moment making out in the back of the classroom. In reality, few people, if any, are passionate enough to be making out at every possible step, although there were several reported cases of dirty bathroom sex in my school. In fact, a threesome in the stadium bathroom is the reason freshmen can no longer linger around there in the morning before school starts. There are, of course, likely many more than this, as new cliques are being made-up as plots require and people categorize other people, and because these are bound Gödel's famous Incompleteness Theorem.

Section 3: Derogatory Language and Slurs
In response to the cliques documented above, there have been a large number of derogatory slurs aimed at each group. For example, the "White supremacists" are often called "skinheads", the African-Americans are called the n-word for reasons unknown to me, and the gays are often called "fags" for reasons, also, unknown to me. There is an unwritten rule that states that each group is allowed to use the derogatory slurs that are directed at them, but not other groups. It is an interesting phenomenon, most likely as a way of saying "Ha! I can say this and you can't you motherfucking racist! Looks like the tables have turned!" to the group that invented the term. Also, there is little, if any, usage outside of a derogatory use to these terms.

Section 4: Examples of Stereotype in Everyday Society
Some stereotypes are bad and others are good. Racism and Honors Student are two very good examples. The former is always a negative thing because it is always used in a negative way, although sometimes people get carried away with it and say that movies like King Kong are racist. The latter is always positive thing because it is always used in a positive way. It is always advantageous to be friends with an Honors Student, because they are generally more book-smart than the other students. Therefore, a stereotype is not necessarily a bad thing, although they sometimes are.Another rather good example is a phenomena known as "white flight". The summary of this is basically, as minorities moved into the cities, the whites would usually move out, resisting the "advance" of the minorities with every step of the way.The ability to do so, however, was drastically reduced with the Fair-Housing Act, located in Title VIII of the Civil-rights act of 1968, which prohibits discrimination on the sale, rental, and financing (mortgaging) of housing based on ace, color, national origin, religion, sex, family status (including children under the age of 18 living with parents or legal custodians, pregnant women, and people securing custody of children under the age of 18), and handicap. After the whites lost the battle of housing, they would begin moving into suburban areas, which generally would have a less population of the minority. A term, "Blockbuster", would often be used to describe the first minority moving into a block, which would cause the housing-value to go down, more-so if they had several children.

Section 5: Multiple Stereotypes
It /is/ interesting, however, to see the way that people will often blend into multiple stereotypes. There are several cheerleaders that are in my Chorus class, and some slightly fill the "diva" stereotype, and others fill the "music nerd" stereotype. It's important to note, however, that none of them exhibit all of the traits that one would expect from those stereotypes.It is exceedingly difficult to find someone that would only fit into one stereotype. I know an excellent swimmer that is nothing like the "Jock" stereotype. She is an honors student, and is even considering a career in the age old science of lying, politics, which itself is a stereotype.

Section 6: Fitting Stereotypes
There are very few people I would slightly consider "nerds" in general, and only one of them that I know even has a clue what 4chan is. He even drew the 4chan smiley onto the white board in the band room, eliciting no response whatsoever. Just right there, the stereotypical "internet nerd" stereotype of taped glasses, plaid shirts, and calculator programs is broken down.The only two stereotypes that I have seen at all to be true to the stereotype are the "Straight gangsta" and "Band/Chorus/Drama is weird" stereotypes. The former fill most, if not all, of the stereotypical urban gangster (even though we are in a suburban area). They deal drugs, buffalo everyone else, do crappy in school, don't care about school, don't have a future, are likely to be in revolving-door justice after High School, and one usually thinks that they have a weapon on them at any given moment. The latter seems to attract all of the people that have those interesting little quirks that make the world a weirder place. For example, our band room has a place called "Fruit Lane" where someone has duct-taped a sign saying fruit. Everyone there is so unique and, to many other people, weird.

Section 7: Stereotypes as a Tool and Causes of Stereotypes
Stereotypes can be used as a tool, also. If you wanted help with homework, who would you go to? The "urban gangsters" or the "smart kids"? If you wanted moral advice, would you go to the rare unicorn called an average student, or a kid that just cussed out his teacher? They can even be used, however, as a bigoted, negative tool. There are people who will watch minorities (more specifically, African Americans) who walk into their store to make sure they don't steal. Race has practically nothing at all to do with theft. Do you want to know what has to do with theft? Economic status. If you are poor and you cannot afford something, you are more likely to steal.
Wikipedia wrote:The US Census declared that in 2007 12.5% of all people, including
- 10.5% white people
- 25.5% black people
- 21.5% all Hispanic people of any race, lived in poverty.

If you will notice, that one out of four (25%) African-Americans are impoverished. The "impoverished" stereotype seems to have imprinted itself onto many peoples' conceptions of African Americans.
A very nice analogy, however, to explain this has been used in this very fora:
SecondTalon wrote:On the other hand, try playing Monopoly with six people. At the very beginning, you pass out half of the properties randomly to two players, half of what's left to those two players plus another player, half of what's left to those three players and one other, keep the rest in the bank for purchase and then give every player the usual starting amount of cash... how do you think the game's going to turn out? Hard work and luck change a lot of things, sure.. but they can't change everything.Or start the game normally, and give everyone the usual starting amount of cash. But only allow one or two of the players to own property until the 20th turn. After that, though everyone has to pay whenever they land on the space of the one or two players who could own property, those one or two do not have to pay whenever they land on anyone else's space until the 40th turn.

Also, please see tables 1-9 for the original data, all of which are located on the following website:
http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032008/pov/new01_100.htm

Section 8: Conclusions and Summaries
In conclusion, on examining the above arguments (the majority of which have degenerated into arguments about the use of the word "fag"), carefully working my way through this sewage, and countless revisions, I have demonstrated that beneath all, the original poster's staggering ignorance (which is likely in and of itself, flame-bate from another member in sock-puppet form). While the widely swaying train of thought and flames of the responders did at one point flirt with coherence, this brief encounter was more than likely a chance event than a result of even rudimentary lucidity.

-Summer Glau


P.S. Don't forget to check out the next season of The Sarah Connor Chronicles this fall on Fox!
P.P.S. I can kill you with my brain.

9/13: Edited for formatting of SecondTalon's quote and rectifying analysis of poverty rates.
Last edited by Internetmeme on Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:53 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Velict » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:40 am UTC

Stereotypes, despite the massively negative connotations they take on in society, are actually quite useful. On a constant basis, we place people into groups and categories, evaluate them at a glance or after prolonged contact, and group individuals so we can gain a greater understanding of society as a whole. These groups can be quite substantive - we can view a stereotype such as "nerd" and safely recognize a universal detestation of such things as logical fallacies, and we can similarly know the views of the stereotypical Roman Catholic in political issues like abortion. Such stereotypes are not mindlessly rigid however; people are prone to great variance when it comes to anything, and although very broad trends can be used to describe them, any attempt to completely define someone through stereotypes is doomed to failure.

Internetmeme wrote:*The Preppie: Often portrayed as a stuck-up bitch who does very well in school. In real life, these are few and far between as they are generally unpleasant to be around. I have never encountered any of these.


I have always seen preppy is being somewhat different. The personality and mannerisms are notably, but its also a much broader stereotype regarding family backgrounds and fashion. Preps are likely from families that have parents who are lawyers, doctors, businessmen, and the like. Both parents may work, and they probably live in a large house located in a clean suburb outside of the city.The preppy "look" defined by traditional, all-American style of highly formal dress: polo and dress shirts, khaki pants, sweaters and cardigans, leather shoes, and so on and so forth. Preps probably participate in a number of sports: Lacrosse, (water) polo, tennis, crew, and the like. Preppy is essentially the modern incarnation of the upper class lifestyle. The stuck-up mannerisms and etiquette are an extension of this.

If you go to school in the inner city, chances are, you won't find any preps; the primary requirements of the preppy stereotype simply aren't present. If you go to school in an affluent suburb, your school may very well be flooded with them. I go to a public high school that falls into the second category; a third or more of the student body falls into the preppy category. The private schools near us are even more inundated with preps. Similarly, the Ivy League schools are an age-old bastion of the preppy stereotype.

I didn't intend to write this much, but as someone who considers himself to be a prep, I felt it necessary to expand on the stereotype.

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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Internetmeme » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:51 pm UTC

Velict wrote:If you go to school in the inner city, chances are, you won't find any preps; the primary requirements of the preppy stereotype simply aren't present. If you go to school in an affluent suburb, your school may very well be flooded with them. I go to a public high school that falls into the second category; a third or more of the student body falls into the preppy category. The private schools near us are even more inundated with preps. Similarly, the Ivy League schools are an age-old bastion of the preppy stereotype.

Excellent point. The main question we have been focusing on so far this year in Human Geography is "Where, and why there?". The most likely reason there are so few in the inner-city schools is because the inner-city is generally a poorer area, which stems from the large migration of African-Americans from the south into the north at (approximately) the beginning of the 1900s. Why are African-Americans so poor? SecondTalon provided a great example, documented in Section 7. They had no way of gaining any wealth whatsoever up until the 1800s, and even after that, sharecropping kept them in an endless cycle of "borrow money, grow things, pay back some debt, and borrow more money" until they were finally able to move up to big cities in the north like Chicago and New York. Then, the phenomenon known as "white flight" (see Section 4) took place, and what do we have left with? Poor to lower middle-class African Americans mainly populating the big cities, whereas the middle to upper class Caucasians moved to suburbs.
A very interesting phenomenon we can observe, however, is that the African-Americans are beginning to move back to the south, having realized that racism is present in both areas of the country.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:07 pm UTC

Okay, ignoring the stupidity of much of this discussion for the time being, can someone at least explain to me why the hell it belongs in the School forum?
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Box Boy » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:08 pm UTC

I'm giessin that his was meant to be about high school stereotypes but was de railed.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Internetmeme » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:09 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Okay, ignoring the stupidity of much of this discussion for the time being, can someone at least explain to me why the hell it belongs in the School forum?

Can this be moved to SB? Or should I move my large post to SB? I think this could be a good discussion.
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Re: Hypothesis: STERORTYPES AND HOW THEY FIT THE SOCIETY WELL

Postby Box Boy » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:11 pm UTC

Yeah, this should be moved to SB if anywhere.
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