Fraternities

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Kaldra
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Fraternities

Postby Kaldra » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:57 am UTC

Here's the thing. Rush Week is over, and I'm a pledge in Sigma Phi Delta, the Engineering Fraternity up here. They seemed like pretty cool guys, so I figured why not, even though I'd never considered a fraternity before. My reasons were for easy to find homework help, and extra job opportunities after college. But, after a meeting today, I'm not so sure that the benefits outweigh the parts I don't like.

They drink. A lot. I had hoped that, since they weren't a bunch of assholes, the drinking stereotype might be wrong too. But it's right for these guys. Now, many of you are saying "What's wrong with that?" Well, I don't drink. I have no desire to drink, I don't see a point to drinking. I don't care if they drink, but I don't want to. I might have a beer or two, but more seems pointless. So I'm wondering if this is a good choice for me.

Right now I'm thinking that I'll stay in it, go to a few parties, and if I feel too pressured, I'll just drop. I'm not worried about getting hazed if I drop. The worst hazing as a pledge is having to wear a pin everywhere, and having to learn memorize a bunch of stuff. I'd like to join, because they're really cool guys, and being in an engineering fraternity, they're pretty nerdy too. But my morals are more important to me than joining.

Anyone have any thoughts? Tips? Anyone been in a similar situation?

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Adalwolf
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Adalwolf » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:43 am UTC

Kaldra wrote:Here's the thing. Rush Week is over, and I'm a pledge in Sigma Phi Delta, the Engineering Fraternity up here. They seemed like pretty cool guys, so I figured why not, even though I'd never considered a fraternity before. My reasons were for easy to find homework help, and extra job opportunities after college. But, after a meeting today, I'm not so sure that the benefits outweigh the parts I don't like.

They drink. A lot. I had hoped that, since they weren't a bunch of assholes, the drinking stereotype might be wrong too. But it's right for these guys. Now, many of you are saying "What's wrong with that?" Well, I don't drink. I have no desire to drink, I don't see a point to drinking. I don't care if they drink, but I don't want to. I might have a beer or two, but more seems pointless. So I'm wondering if this is a good choice for me.

Right now I'm thinking that I'll stay in it, go to a few parties, and if I feel too pressured, I'll just drop. I'm not worried about getting hazed if I drop. The worst hazing as a pledge is having to wear a pin everywhere, and having to learn memorize a bunch of stuff. I'd like to join, because they're really cool guys, and being in an engineering fraternity, they're pretty nerdy too. But my morals are more important to me than joining.

Anyone have any thoughts? Tips? Anyone been in a similar situation?


So you don't want to join the frat because you don't drink and they do?

How about you loosen up and just drink? Its fucking fun! And if you don't want to fine, but don't judge people because they choose to.

Honestly as long as they don't force you to drink, I don't see the problem with joining this frat.
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ian
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Re: Fraternities

Postby ian » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:55 am UTC

What he said, also if they really are cool guys, then they probably won't pressure you to drink if you explain to them you don't want to, and if you still feel pressured is there any reason you could be part of the fraternity but not go to the parties (we don't have them over here so i'm a little unclear on the normal way things are done)?

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Re: Fraternities

Postby Mokele » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:40 pm UTC

How about you loosen up and just drink? Its fucking fun! And if you don't want to fine, but don't judge people because they choose to.


You mean like how you just judged him as uptight for choosing not to?



Speaking as someone who also doesn't drink, has never been drunk, and feels no need to, I see two possibilities:

First, they might be a group of people who 'drink socially' quite often, but aren't obsessed with getting smashed at every opportunity. These folks can be great to hang out with, won't give you shit for not drinking, etc. I've hung out with lots of such people, had a great time, and never felt excluded. However, I should note that the percentage of people I've met in this group who are less than 25 is vanishingly tiny, and I've never met any frat member in such a setting, though the latter may simply be due to the nature of the crowd (punk rockers, the local gay bars, etc.).

Second, and IMHO more likely considering the age group, is that they've developed that annoying mental disease where "being completely drunk/high" has become equated with and necessary not only to their concept of "having a good time" but also to their masculinity and general self image. This sort is most likely to pressure you to drink, slip booze into your non-alcoholic drinks (to "show you what you're missing"), denigrate you if you stick to your guns and refuse, and structure most or all of their social activities around drinking, leaving you feeling excluded. IME, this group is comprised mostly of people from 15-24, and I've never met a frat whose members aren't predominantly of this sort (though I admit exceptions are possible).

Give them a try, but after a few parties, I suspect you see which category they fall into.



IME, I've had my choice not to use recreational chemicals respected more often by hippies selling 'special brownies' and punk rockers who sell harder stuff than by any "normal" looking guy with greek letters on his shirt.
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Kaldra
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Kaldra » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:28 am UTC

Thanks for the help. I'm thinking that I'm going to stay with it for a while, go to a few of the parties, and see if I feel uncomfortable. It's not that I'm antisocial, I just don't want to drink. If I feel uncomfortable then I'll drop that and join IEEE or something :)

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zug
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Re: Fraternities

Postby zug » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:49 am UTC

Well I was in a (co-ed, I'm female) service fraternity in college, and there wasn't pressure at all to drink. Just going to the parties and having fun with or without alcohol. If you didn't go to parties, you didn't really get to know people well. But I didn't have to drink. Hell, nobody really pays attention to who is and isn't drinking at a party, in my experience, as long as you're having a good time. Just have a red cup in your hand and drink straight pepsi.

There are ways to look like you're drinking without actually doing it, though. If you get muscled into bellying up at the keg, pretend to sip it for 10 minutes, then go to the bathroom and dump your cup in the sink, etc. But I really don't think that will be necessary. They're in engineering, so they're not your stereotypical doofhead "CHUG CHUG!" frat boys. I think you will be just fine.

As long as you're not the type to sit there and mope and moralize to drunkards about the evils of drinking while everyone else has a good alcohol-soaked time, I don't see it being an issue at all. In fact, you could be a carful of people's best friend by being a consistent designated driver.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby sje46 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:00 am UTC

Kaldra wrote:They drink. A lot. I had hoped that, since they weren't a bunch of assholes, the drinking stereotype might be wrong too.

This is your first problem. It's not that most people in a frat drink, it's that most people in college drink. And, of course, the more social these people are (and I would say that people who would join a brotherhood tend to be more social) the more likely they are to drink. The fact that they are "nerdy" is irrelevant.

Adalwolf wrote:
So you don't want to join the frat because you don't drink and they do?

How about you loosen up and just drink? Its fucking fun! And if you don't want to fine, but don't judge people because they choose to.

Honestly as long as they don't force you to drink, I don't see the problem with joining this frat.

Kaldra, don't listen to this thing. It is an idiot. It thinks that you are judging people, when you never implied that you think they are lower than you at all. Then it assumes that you're not loose, and are thus some kind of frigid killjoy.

They will probably not force you to drink, but I'm guessing there will be a lot of pressure. A fraternity is a brotherhood; that's the whole point of it. These are your new friends. It's expected that you hang out with them, to be friends with them. But if drinking is a big part of their lives, then there will most likely be some strain, and they may think of you as not one of them. It's like when the Beatles kicked Pete Best out because he wouldn't get his hair cut like theirs or wear a suit on stage or hang out with them after shows. He was a Beatle, technically, but not one of the group. So they kicked him out and replaced him with me.

I'm not saying that they are going to hate you or dislike you, but there will probably be a kind of otherization with you. The idea that you don't belong. And yeah, that will put some pressure on you.

And just so everyone else understands, I doubt the OP thinks he's better than these people, but he will probably feel a lot of discomfort being around them, simply because he's a different person than they are. I'm the same way; I go to college, and I have never drank any alcohol, and I just feel really uncomfortable when everyone else does, because I feel like an outsider. And just the fact of being around people with a different morality is just really, really disconcerting. Plus, I find drunk people really annoying.

Personally, I hate frats, despite having little experience with them. Anything that makes you embarrass yourself to feel accepted is a horrible organization. There are frats at my school, however, that don't do that, I think.
There are ways to look like you're drinking without actually doing it, though. If you get muscled into bellying up at the keg, pretend to sip it for 10 minutes, then go to the bathroom and dump your cup in the sink, etc.
This is lying though. I doubt that will make him feel better, or will fool his fraternity brothers (even if he doesn't live with them)
They're in engineering, so they're not your stereotypical doofhead "CHUG CHUG!" frat boys.
You do realize that this is a stereotype in itself?

EDIT: Advice? Test my hypothesis. See if your not drinking and being around heavy drinkers will create friction or incredibly discomfort with you.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Velict » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:06 am UTC

sje46 wrote:And just so everyone else understands, I doubt the OP thinks he's better than these people, but he will probably feel a lot of discomfort being around them, simply because he's a different person than they are. I'm the same way; I go to college, and I have never drank any alcohol, and I just feel really uncomfortable when everyone else does, because I feel like an outsider. And just the fact of being around people with a different morality is just really, really disconcerting. Plus, I find drunk people really annoying.


You're constructing a strong dichotomy where there simply isn't one. If you drink alcohol, you aren't necessarily a raging alcoholic; you can drink in moderation, and in fact should. Drinking alcohol is not immoral by any means. And not all people who drink alcohol get drunk whenever they do so.

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Re: Fraternities

Postby sje46 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:12 am UTC

Velict wrote:
sje46 wrote:And just so everyone else understands, I doubt the OP thinks he's better than these people, but he will probably feel a lot of discomfort being around them, simply because he's a different person than they are. I'm the same way; I go to college, and I have never drank any alcohol, and I just feel really uncomfortable when everyone else does, because I feel like an outsider. And just the fact of being around people with a different morality is just really, really disconcerting. Plus, I find drunk people really annoying.


You're constructing a strong dichotomy where there simply isn't one. If you drink alcohol, you aren't necessarily a raging alcoholic; you can drink in moderation, and in fact should. Drinking alcohol is not immoral by any means. And not all people who drink alcohol get drunk whenever they do so.
He said they drank a lot, and the people in college who drink a lot tend to value drinking highly. I'm not saying college is just one big party for them, but that how much they value partying with alcohol will probably create friction. Heck, my friends probably drink once a month, and I can't stand being around them when they do.

Drinking alcohol is immoral to some people.

I'm not saying the frat members are to blame, that they are bad people or anything...just that they may simply be incompatible, and thus, conflict.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Kaldra » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:42 am UTC

I don't have a problem with being around drunk people, or around alcohol. I find it kinda fun, TBH. Dunk people are interesting. I'm going into this open minded. I've been around all kinds of people. From those who don't drink at all, to those who are nearly always drunk. I don't care if they're drunk, that's their decision. So obviously I'm not going to moralize anyone. I have my morals, and other people have theirs. If it doesn't affect me, then I'm not going to try to change it. I've made it clear already to a couple people that I don't drink much, if any at all. They weren't supportive, but they weren't really pressuring me to change either. So that's why I figure I'll see how it goes and decide later. If I feel uncomfortable at some point, I leave. Simple as that.

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Re: Fraternities

Postby sje46 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:21 am UTC

Kaldra wrote:I don't have a problem with being around drunk people, or around alcohol. I find it kinda fun, TBH. Dunk people are interesting. I'm going into this open minded. I've been around all kinds of people. From those who don't drink at all, to those who are nearly always drunk. I don't care if they're drunk, that's their decision. So obviously I'm not going to moralize anyone. I have my morals, and other people have theirs. If it doesn't affect me, then I'm not going to try to change it. I've made it clear already to a couple people that I don't drink much, if any at all. They weren't supportive, but they weren't really pressuring me to change either. So that's why I figure I'll see how it goes and decide later. If I feel uncomfortable at some point, I leave. Simple as that.

So if you like being around them, what's the problem?
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ian
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Re: Fraternities

Postby ian » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:41 am UTC

That they might try and pressure him into drinking, and that could be annoying, I guess.

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Re: Fraternities

Postby Kizyr » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:28 pm UTC

Kaldra wrote:I've made it clear already to a couple people that I don't drink much, if any at all. They weren't supportive, but they weren't really pressuring me to change either. So that's why I figure I'll see how it goes and decide later. If I feel uncomfortable at some point, I leave. Simple as that.

I don't think you really need anyone's help. You seem to have a pretty good plan as is, and a set standard (which I also think is pretty good) for balancing your own values with interacting with people who don't share the same values. Just, follow through on what you've decided, and don't let folks pressure you into compromising on something you're uncomfortable with--which it sounds like you're already intent on doing. It's definitely good that you got that stated up-front at the beginning; it always adds onto complications when it's something you bring up instead, say, in the middle of a party when half the people around you are wasted.

By the way, not everyone in college necessarily drinks. Half of my friends in college, like me, didn't drink at all; the other half of my friends rarely drank, and even then only at specific social situations; none of my friends ever binge-drank. (Funnily enough, one of my friends who was my roommate for two years didn't know until last year that I didn't drink, just because it was a subject that'd never come up.)

The way college is, you're very likely to run into people who are similar to you. So, while it tends to be a time for changing and maybe reinventing yourself, there's no reason why it shouldn't be entirely on your terms that you do so. KF
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Lord Aurora » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:28 am UTC

Half my frat doesn't drink. The other half very much enjoys it. You know what the drinkers all have in common?

We're not assholes to people who don't drink. That's your choice, it's cool, it's probably more healthy, whatever man. No problem.

If they give you shit for not drinking, or if they try to get you to drink (other than just offering you beer and allowing you to refuse), then drop out of pledging. The problem wouldn't be that they drink. It'd be that they're assholes.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:30 am UTC

Oh another one of these?

Here's a wild idea: Why don't you just talk to the brothers? Say, "Hey guys, you seem cool, but I don't drink and don't want to be pressured to do so, is that cool?"
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Re: Fraternities

Postby gereffi » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:45 am UTC

If you can't associate with drinkers, you'll have a hard time meeting people in the future.

Just hang out with them, and let them know that you don't party that way. If they can accept you for who you are, then stick with it.

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Re: Fraternities

Postby philsov » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:34 pm UTC

Even if you don't drink, always have a drink (dixie cup of water, woo) in hand at social gatherings/parties. That way you come off less elitist/condescending. It's surprisingly effective.

Either way, a good portion of all this is in your head. If the guys are cool, go with it. But if they're not your type they're not your type, don't force yourself into a poor social situation.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:31 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:Heck, my friends probably drink once a month, and I can't stand being around them when they do.


You sound pretty damned immature right now!



sje46 wrote:Drinking alcohol is immoral to some people.


Now that makes you sound more like a pillock than immature.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby sje46 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:37 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:
sje46 wrote:Heck, my friends probably drink once a month, and I can't stand being around them when they do.


You sound pretty damned immature right now!



sje46 wrote:Drinking alcohol is immoral to some people.


Now that makes you sound more like a pillock than immature.

I'm sorry, but can you explain why I am an immature idiot? Or are you just going to call me names for no reason at all? I fail to see how it makes me immature that I feel uncomfortable to be around people that drink. I fail to see how it makes me a fool that I said that people think it's immoral to drink. Please explain yourself.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:41 pm UTC

You could use more detail with what upsets you about those people. I drink frequently, and find my behavior while drunk to be almost mostly always perfectly reasonable/civilized. If you have an issue with your friends when they act rowdy, say that. Don't say "I don't like being around people who drink" because it's a rather sweeping statement that has little to do with drinking.
Furthermore, the excuse that 'some find it immoral' also doesn't hold much water.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby sje46 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:51 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:You could use more detail with what upsets you about those people. I drink frequently, and find my behavior while drunk to be almost mostly always perfectly reasonable/civilized. If you have an issue with your friends when they act rowdy, say that. Don't say "I don't like being around people who drink" because it's a rather sweeping statement that has little to do with drinking.
Furthermore, the excuse that 'some find it immoral' also doesn't hold much water.

Why don't you learn how to read by context? I said that it makes me uncomfortable when people drink. That's it. That's all. I didn't say anything else. Not that it matters anyways. I hardly see how that makes me immature. I said that to some people drinking is wrong. I'm one of those people...I have no idea why I get a sinking feeling in my guy when I see people drink, I just do. Is that really so hard to understand? I mean, can people be that dense?

Everybody is pissing me off today. I feel bad enough as it is that I don't fit in. I don't need to be told that my values make me immature and a fool.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:09 pm UTC

Usually I'd respond with equal levels of hostility/rudeness, but if you're having a bad day, I'll temper this response:

I'm not agreeing that you are immature or juvenile, and certainly not suggesting that you need to do as the popular kids do to be awesome, but your statement was fairly general, and you still neglected to describe what it is that made you uncomfortable. Does being around loud rowdy people bother you? Does being around intoxicating substances bother you? Does being around something illegal for your age bother you (are you under 21? Are your friends?)? I think Krikket was pointing out that one of the tenants of maturity, perhaps as he see's it, but I certainly agree, is the ability to deal with things that bother you in an adult like manner. Rather then say "People who wear red shirts piss me off", you could describe an attribute of red, or of shirts, or of what someone does when they wear red shirts, that pisses you off, because hey, I'm wearing a red shirt today and I didn't mean to piss you off.

If you had said "Drinking is immoral to me, I don't like the idea of losing control and thus don't drink" I think you'd find the utmost of respect for your sentiments. But you didn't. You said people who wear red are asshats. No biggie.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Mokele » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:32 pm UTC

but your statement was fairly general, and you still neglected to describe what it is that made you uncomfortable.


It's possible he doesn't know. Much of our learned behavior is the product of conditioning (classical or operant), much of which we aren't aware of. It's possible that a single bad experience or a few such experiences, strongly associated with early experiences of other people consuming alcohol, could result in an "uncomfortable" feeling.

Or maybe it's just something subtle, something he can't put his finger on about how the social dynamic changes once alcohol is involved. Not necessarily "booze = insta-asshat", but something about the way people interact that changes from something he's used to into something he's unfamiliar or uncomfortable with.

Frankly, you do not get to proclaim his feelings as valid or invalid, worth of respect or not, based on whether they meet your particular arbitrary criteria. Not everyone is comfortable around drinking, and not everyone can lay out a detailed reason for every behavioral tendency they have.

IMHO, sje46 has handled this in a very mature manner - he's identified a potential problem, recognized that he cannot fully explain it or suppress it, and will, if needed, take steps to deal with it in an adult manner, namely by avoiding what he finds uncomfortable. There's no reason why he needs to approve of your drinking, or even be able to tolerate it, and this is not the same as insulting you for it. Shocking as it may be, some of us simply don't like drinking.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Mr. Freeman » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:19 am UTC

Adalwolf wrote:How about you loosen up and just drink? Its fucking fun!

I'm sure there's worse advice on the internet, but this ain't far off.

If your only reason for joining a frat is easy access to homework help then go live in the dorms. They're quieter and you have an entire residence hall full of people taking the same classes you are.
There are plenty of "really cool guys" pretty much everywhere on campus. If you just want to meet cool people then you're probably better off going to some clubs that you think you'll enjoy and becoming friends with the other members.

Whether or not you like partying, think about this for a second, if you want to get serious work done and they're throwing a party every night, that's not going to go over very well.

I didn't join a frat for the following reasons:
1. Didn't want to put up with the bullshit initiation rituals (hazing light), memorizing worthless shit about whoever invented the frat. It's not like the frat has anything to do with why it was founded 75+ years ago.
2. Lots of alcohol and parties are not the brightest idea when the campus police are honest to god actual police officers, not rent-a-cops, and the frats are 300 yards from campus.
3. I drink occasionally, frats drink a fucking lot. Engineering or no, if it's a fraternity and it has a house, then there's alcohol involved.
4. Frats drink pisswater cheap ass bear for the sole purpose of getting drunk. I drink beer because it tastes good, not because it has alcohol.
5. Parties in the house are a bad idea when you need to get serious work done.
6. I don't like pranks. Somehow, I think a frat wouldn't be good for someone who doesn't like pranks.
7. You have to deal with fewer drunk people in the dorms.

I made up my mind before I got to college not to join a frat, but absolutely nothing that's happened here has done anything to change my mind. Frat guys are constantly talking about how much shitty beer they drank the last night, how little they remember, and how much damage there was to the house in the morning. There was a guy that lived on my floor in the dorm that came home after drinking at a frat, passed out, puked, fell asleep in it, and could have died if he wasn't laying down in the position he was. (fortunately, he was alright.) The stupid fuckers at the frat let him drink way too much way too fast and then didn't even fucking watch him. I've never seen my RA so pissed off in my life. It was 3:00 AM, so there was no one he could complain to, but from what I hear he was livid the next morning talking to whoever was in charge of the whole fiasco.

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Re: Fraternities

Postby sje46 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:22 am UTC

Mokele wrote:
but your statement was fairly general, and you still neglected to describe what it is that made you uncomfortable.


It's possible he doesn't know. Much of our learned behavior is the product of conditioning (classical or operant), much of which we aren't aware of. It's possible that a single bad experience or a few such experiences, strongly associated with early experiences of other people consuming alcohol, could result in an "uncomfortable" feeling.

Or maybe it's just something subtle, something he can't put his finger on about how the social dynamic changes once alcohol is involved. Not necessarily "booze = insta-asshat", but something about the way people interact that changes from something he's used to into something he's unfamiliar or uncomfortable with.

Frankly, you do not get to proclaim his feelings as valid or invalid, worth of respect or not, based on whether they meet your particular arbitrary criteria. Not everyone is comfortable around drinking, and not everyone can lay out a detailed reason for every behavioral tendency they have.

IMHO, sje46 has handled this in a very mature manner - he's identified a potential problem, recognized that he cannot fully explain it or suppress it, and will, if needed, take steps to deal with it in an adult manner, namely by avoiding what he finds uncomfortable. There's no reason why he needs to approve of your drinking, or even be able to tolerate it, and this is not the same as insulting you for it. Shocking as it may be, some of us simply don't like drinking.
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I don't really subscribe to the whole unconscious-repressed-memories kinda thing. I'm not sure if that was what you were implying. And I certainly can't consciously recall any bad memories regarding alcohol..nothing /traumatic/, at least. But yeah, I simply don't know. I do know that I refuse to even try it because I think I have an addictive personality. Once I break the taboo, I won't stop. But that's not the reason (I think) I'm uncomfortable around other people drinking it. The illegality and party-boy attitude certainly don't help. But that second paragraph, the one I bolded...that is a good way of explaining how I feel. I haven't been to any nudist colonies or beaches, but I imagine my sense of uncomfortability around drinking to be similar to visiting a nude beach for the first time. I know intellectually it isn't wrong, but it still bugs me (until I become desensitized to it, at least).

But yeah, I agree mostly with Mr. Freeman. I'm not going to say all frats (the house type ones, at least) or frat boys are like that...but alcohol-driven partying does seem to be the point of it, as opposed to say, joining some club. It isn't a big deal to drink a little, but binge drinking at crazy parties, especially while underaged--it just always seemed like a pretty terrible idea. At least do it in some kinda controlled, police-free environment.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:23 pm UTC

Mokele wrote:Frankly, you do not get to proclaim his feelings as valid or invalid, worth of respect or not, based on whether they meet your particular arbitrary criteria. Not everyone is comfortable around drinking, and not everyone can lay out a detailed reason for every behavioral tendency they have.


I didn't proclaim his feelings valid or invalid. I expressed disagreement and listed reasons. I don't expect everyone to eloquently describe their every whim, but it seems odd to hop into a thread about Frats, proclaim your distaste for anyone who touches the bottle, and then be surprised when people try and discuss it with you. The discussion, or defense of his stance, never went past "I just don't like drinking", and rather then YOU tell me off for talking about it, how about you let him speak for himself?

sje46 wrote:but alcohol-driven partying does seem to be the point of it, as opposed to say, joining some club.


Again, I have to disagree. While the majority of frats are excuses to get drunk and drunker with more and more people, you should recognize that 'some club' is exactly what you're joining here, and some club parties I've seen have been 10x rowdier then a frat party.

But still, if you don't want to drink, don't drink. My sentiment was never "Just give it a shot!", it was "Don't lump all alcohol-drinkers into the same category of people you hate and avoid", which I still think is perfectly reasonable.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Fledermen64 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:43 am UTC

Are you a freshman engineer or alternatively have you started taking any of your majors classes yet. After your sixth night in a row with 3 hours of HW for each class plus various projects you will begin to understand the mindset of drinking your troubles away. Even if you dont share it. As was allready said however just let them know if they pressure you tell them that you dont and shall'nt drink. They should be cool with that, at least most of them. Just make sure you dont come off as condescending. No person at a party is more hated than the dude or chick who acts superior because they don't drink.

And as a pointer. You are a scientist. How can you know you don't like something until you have experimented. I don't mean go get blind drunk. Try getting tipsy I find it enjoyable to break loose from my social awkwardness while still maintaining higher reasoning. Thats just my opinion on the matter though. Also never show fear. Frat bros feed on fear.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Ninjew » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:30 am UTC

I'd say talk it over with the people in the Fraternity. If you get along with them now, chances are that you'll get along with them fine once you're in, probably better. That goes for drinking as well. If you don't drink, and they aren't pressuring you to drink now, I don't see any reason why they would pressure you to do so once you joined. I don't drink, my personal choice, because of a couple of reasons. One, I don't prefer the taste of most alcohol, and two, I had a rather bad experience with jello shots. Sure, I'll drink on occasion maybe some wine or something, but I don't do anything more than a glass of wine every other month or so.

If I'm completely misinterpreting everything and you don't know the people in the fraternity, I would say to get to know them first. I got to know the people in my fraternity (Phi Mu Alpha), they became the people who I normally hung out with anyways, and I decided to join. Sure, a bunch of my friends are in it, but we do help out around the community, and we perform around the community as well. I'm just saying that not all fraternities are the same, and not all are the stereotypical fraternities.

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Re: Fraternities

Postby RockoTDF » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:47 am UTC

As an alumnus of a (geeky) social fraternity, I thought I'd throw in my two cents. (EDIT: Hey, I just realized that I'm wearing the letters in my avatar!)

First of all, even in my frat no one was *made* to drink. I can't think of anyone who *never* drank, but plenty of guys had a beer or two and that was it. If you (or anyone reading this) is a part of any greek organization, social or academic, that makes you drink, you need to get out. Even if you love getting shit faced too and can drink your new brothers/sisters under the table, you are walking into a world of bad decisions. The same goes with real hazing. When I say "real hazing" I mean forced drinking, hell weeks, physical abuse, whatever. Although wearing a pin and having to actually know something about the group you are trying to join is considered hazing by administrators, its not "real" hazing if you catch my drift.

However, if you choose not to drink don't be a dick about it. And don't feel like you must *always* be DD either, because then you are just being taken advantage of with regards to using your gas. You are a freshman now (I assume) and I know LOADS of people that came to college with a negative attitude about drinking, so I'm not going to assume that you are going to go your entire college career without a drink. If you join, you will probably become desensitized to the idea of drinking (especially in moderation/with a meal instead of at a party) and will likely indulge. The fraternity could be a good long term opportunity for you (especially since in this case its an academic frat) and it would be a bad idea to throw it away because of an opinion you hold now that will in all likelihood change a little over the next few years.
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Re: Fraternities

Postby Korandder » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:38 pm UTC

My school did not have fraternities but the engineers drank the most.
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