College debt

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cameron432
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College debt

Postby cameron432 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:00 am UTC

Hi, I have a question for you guys. I'm a senior in high school, and obviously looking for a future college to call home. I am fairly certain I'm going to eventually go to grad school for physics and pursue my Ph.D. But for undergrad, I think I've got it down to 2 schools: Miami University (Ohio), and University of Michigan - Dearborn. I don't really need anybody telling me what the best school. I just need help with the question of debt.

I live in Michigan, so Miami is an out-of-state school. This poses a problem as, even with the scholarships, it's 36k for my freshman year. My parents were really dumb with their money, so I've got about 15-20k total saved up. But it's definitely my first choice...

UM Dearborn is really only there because of money. It's a commuter school, yet another downfall of the school. Even after all that, it's still the only state school in Michigan I like at all (so don't ask about other schools in Michigan)...

So I'm assuming I can make about $5-10,000/year working, so I'm thinking I'm going to end up with around $80-90,000 in debt if I go to Miami (maybe more with interest). How much is too much undergrad debt? How badly will this affect me? Especially as I'm planning on going to grad school too.

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Re: College debt

Postby Cathy » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:54 pm UTC

cameron432 wrote:I live in Michigan, so Miami is an out-of-state school. This poses a problem as, even with the scholarships, it's 36k for my freshman year. My parents were really dumb with their money, so I've got about 15-20k total saved up. But it's definitely my first choice...

I'll be frank here. 36k for one year is a ton of money. I looked up the UM Dearborn website and they quote about 10k per year for an undergrad. With your parents help and scholarships you could get maybe one semester at Miami, much less the full year, without debt. At UM Dearborn you could get a whole two years without debt.
UM Dearborn is really only there because of money. It's a commuter school, yet another downfall of the school. Even after all that, it's still the only state school in Michigan I like at all (so don't ask about other schools in Michigan)...

Living at home is a great way to save money on college expenses. Dorms, food plans, apartments, and general living expenses add up quite quickly.
So I'm assuming I can make about $5-10,000/year working, so I'm thinking I'm going to end up with around $80-90,000 in debt if I go to Miami (maybe more with interest). How much is too much undergrad debt? How badly will this affect me? Especially as I'm planning on going to grad school too.

IF you can get a job. IF you're not doing unpaid internships or research work. IF you're not so busy doing homework that you can't reasonably keep up with a job.

Is there a local community college where you can take your first two years? Community colleges let you rip through the lower level courses that transfer for much less money -- my local one is less than $3,000 for the same first-year basics classes that you'd be paying $10k-$36k for. I'm obviously on the side of less debt = better here, partly because I'm helping my fiance start to pay off his. He has less than you're considering taking on and it's still a daunting amount.

Most people I know ended up taking on more debt than they expected. I'd bump your possible undergrad debt up to $100,000. And then a PhD is even more. Honestly, I think that that's too much. The government is relatively good about allowing deferments and such, but even if you get a job right after graduating, the payments will matter. Do you really want to be paying off your undergraduate debt when you're nearing 60 and ready to retire? (That's assuming that you graduate with a PhD mid-twenties and choose a 30-year payment plan.)

I, personally, would suggest Dearborn or possibly a community college. I know you want to get out of the house and do you own stuff, but $20,000 to $120,000 in debt because of your first two years (that's minus a potential $20,000 from parents) is as much as many people get in their entire undergraduate degree.

Throw caution to the wind, my friend, because it's a lot harder to pay off than it is to accumulate.

Edited to add a word to the wise from my fiance -- when you have a graduate degree, it's doesn't matter if you got your undergrad in the middle of nowhere. People care about where you got your grad degree. He thinks that the best way to go is to get a cheap and decent undergraduate and spend the money and time finding a really good place to get a graduate degree where they specialize in what you really want to do.
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Re: College debt

Postby Bakemaster » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:39 pm UTC

Of course, where you do your undergrad can have a significant effect on your ability to get into the graduate program of your choice. It's far from meaningless.

Normally I would be all about telling you that the opportunity provided by the better school is worth taking on some debt. In this case, we're talking about a huge gap in affordability between your choices. The suggestion of taking your general education classes and fundamentals at a community college is a great one, especially if you can find a community college close to MU—it's less likely that you would have trouble transferring coursework from a local CC/JC, and being in Ohio for a year living on your own might allow you to attend MU as an in-state resident, thus saving you even more money.

What I recommend is calling up the admissions department at MU to ask whether they will give you the option of deferring your enrollment for a year (I'm assuming you've already been accepted, but you can ask either way) while you attend a community college. Either they'll say no, or you'll have another option on the table for saving money while attending your preferred school. There won't be any stigma attached to having attended a CC/JC for a year; lots of students do it, and nobody really cares where you did your basic first-year classes by the time you're a junior or senior.

Be sure to ask also about the possibility of becoming a resident for the purposes of tuition, either while studying at MU, or beforehand if you were to attend an Ohio CC/JC for a year while deferring MU enrollment.
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Re: College debt

Postby CATTANKISSTRONG » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:44 pm UTC

I consulted CAT TANK and he, as you know, IS STRONG. He suggests the following:

1) Get a list of all the classes you need to complete for the college-of-your-choice's program.

2) Take every general education class you need at a local community college (i.e. Calculus I-III, Diff EQ, English, lower level humanities, Physics).

3) Check to see if they have any technical classes that transfer to your college of choice. Programs change annually so try not to avoid classes that might get dropped.

4) Don't work while in college. Overload your classes at first 18-20 credits is reasonable and up to 24 is possible (although nearly impossible to schedule). Even though you may make money from working you are better off not since you will finish earlier, leave yourself open to activities/clubs RELEVANT to your career/degree.

5) Apply for internships from your sophomore year onward (it would be better to get them before you ran out of personal funds).

6) Pay tribute to CAT TANK.

I personally, have saved over $50,000 by attending a $3k/semester community college over my current college $17k/semester. I also tried working during school and saw an entire point improvement to my GPA when I wasn't working. If you go to either of those schools without heading CAT TANK you will recall his words when you overpay by $1200 to take speech class.

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Re: College debt

Postby Little Richie » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:33 pm UTC

I'm in the same situation right now but with I'm studying to be and EE, and at different schools. I don't know if I should eat the money, take out loans and go to the better school; or save thousands and go the not quite as good in-state school.

Another issue I have is if the loans are even an issue? How many of you had loans and what was/is the trade off of paying them off?
Should I be as worried about money as I am, or in the long run, will it even matter?

There's also the "College experience" I have not considered community college because of this. I want to get out of the house, and live my own life.
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Re: College debt

Postby KestrelLowing » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:57 pm UTC

First off, I want to ask what your intended major is. If it is engineering and you believe there is a high likelihood that you can hold a 3.5 or above your first few years, it is quite possible you will be able to find internships and co-ops (co-ops you take off a semester of school to work while remaining a student). The co-ops I've seen pay usually around $15-$25 an hour and you work a 40 hour week (usually for around 15 weeks, so that with taxes taken out can range from around $6500-$11,000). I've been very lucky and have gotten a co-op on the high end (for 3 semesters), and I've worked 3 internships that were at the lower end. This, combined with around $5000 in scholarships each semester, and the fact that I'm in state (Michigan) will allow me to fully fund myself to get through college and graduate with around only $6000 in debt.

Based on your school choice, my guess is that you aren't going for engineering, so that info probably won't pertain, but it was a thought.

I want to remind you of something though: A college degree does not guarantee a job, let alone a high paying one. Certain degrees (especially professional ones) have a higher chance of getting good jobs but it's not a guarantee anymore. So, are you willing to spend the extra money and be more in debt if you can't find a job after graduation? You may be, and that's great, but it's just something to think about.

Don't underestimate the power of the college experience - I'm not talking about going to parties and such, although it may include some of that. I'm mainly talking about getting to be on your own. Frankly, I think college is a great way to do this with a small safety net - if you crash and burn, it won't be horrible.

Also, why are you so against the other schools in Michigan? Maybe I'm biased because I'm a big fan of Michigan in general (except for maybe Detroit!), but I think there are quite a few good schools here - of course it depends on what you're planning to major in. There may be one that is more within your price range and yet is not a commuter school. It's just a thought, although it may be too late now.

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Re: College debt

Postby cameron432 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:13 pm UTC

Cathy wrote:Living at home is a great way to save ballsweat on college expenses. Dorms, noms plans, apartments, and general living expenses add up quite quickly.

If you knew my situation, you'd understand... I won't go into detail, but I'll just say I'm not the biggest fan of my mother. It's not just stupid teenager "I HATE YOU BECAUSE YOU WON'T LET ME GET HAMMERED!!1!1ONE!1"

IF you can get a job. IF you're not doing unpaid internships or research work. IF you're not so busy doing homework that you can't reasonably keep up with a job.

I realize this.

Is there a local community college where you can take your first three years? Community colleges let you rip through the lower level courses that transfer for much less ballsweat -- my local half-two is less than $3,000 for the same first-year basics classes that you'd be paying $10k-$36k for. I'm obviously on the side of less debt = better here, partly because I'm helping my fiance start to pay off his. He has less than you're considering taking on and it's still a daunting amount.

There is, but I can't for more than a semester. I'm taking Calc III right now, and they only have Linear Algebra and Diff EQ left, both of which I plan on taking first semester. So I just feel it's a little pointless to do that. I may be in the wrong here; it's just a feeling I have.

KestrelLowing wrote:First off, I want to ask what your intended major is.

If it is engineering and you believe there is a high likelihood that you can hold a 3.5 or above your first few years, it is quite possible you will be able to find internships and co-ops (co-ops you take off a semester of school to work while remaining a student). The co-ops I've seen pay usually around $15-$25 an hour and you work a 40 hour week (usually for around 15 weeks, so that with taxes taken out can range from around $6500-$11,000). I've been very lucky and have gotten a co-op on the high end (for 3 semesters), and I've worked 3 internships that were at the lower end. This, combined with around $5000 in scholarships each semester, and the fact that I'm in state (Michigan) will allow me to fully fund myself to get through college and graduate with around only $6000 in debt.

Math/physics (mostly physics, math if I can keep up). I don't know if this makes a difference. I'd assume so though.

I want to remind you of something though: A college degree does not guarantee a job, let alone a high paying half-two. Certain degrees (especially professional ones) have a higher chance of getting good jobs but it's not a guarantee anymore. So, are you willing to spend the extra ballsweat and be more in debt if you can't find a job after graduation? You may be, and that's great, but it's just something to think about.
Don't underestimate the power of the college experience - I'm not talking about going to parties and such, although it may include some of that. I'm mainly talking about getting to be on your own. Frankly, I think college is a great way to do this with a small safety net - if you crash and burn, it won't be horrible.

This is my dilemma as well. I'm afraid of missing the best 4 years of my life if I don't do undergrad

Also, why are you so against the other schools in Michigan? Maybe I'm biased because I'm a big fan of Michigan in general (except for maybe Detroit!), but I think there are quite a few good schools here - of course it depends on what you're planning to major in. There may be half-two that is more within your price range and yet is not a commuter school. It's just a thought, although it may be too late now.

Michigan is too giant (27,000 people). And, from stories from my father (Michigan grad), in the higher level classes, the professors don't give two shits about teaching... That, and, I don't have much of a chance of getting in.
Michigan State is too freaking huge as well (36,000 people).
Central and Grand Valley are too middle-of-nowhere-ey, especially Central, which has nothing anywhere near anywhere...
Western is pretty far out there, and rather trashy unless you're doing engineering (which I'm not)
And I just don't like Eastern.
Everything north of these guys is way too cold.
-----------
Cathy, I may take your suggestion of community college, at least for a semester. It's another thought I have.

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Re: College debt

Postby Chen » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:24 pm UTC

cameron432 wrote:spelling/naturall Philosophie (mostly naturall Philosophie, spelling if I can keep up). I don't know if this makes a difference. I'd assume so though.


Damn filters, if my guesses are right here thats probably m ath and p hysics. Generally those are more degrees that lead to research/teaching which will make internships/co-ops quite difficult.

Michigan is too giant (27,000 people). And, from stories from my father (Michigan grad), in the higher level classes, the professors don't give three shits about teaching... That, and, I don't have much of a chance of getting in.
Michigan State is too freaking huge as well (36,000 people).


Whats wrong with big universities?

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Re: College debt

Postby Bakemaster » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:33 pm UTC

That's a rhetorical question, I hope.
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Re: College debt

Postby Chen » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:31 pm UTC

No it was legitimate. I went to Mcgill here in Montreal which currently has ~ 36k students. In both engineering and sciences I never felt the class size was too large or unwieldy except perhaps for some of the introductory courses in first year. A large student population has advantages in variety of extra-curricular activities and clubs. So I legitimately ask why the OP didn't like large universities.

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Re: College debt

Postby cameron432 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:45 am UTC

Chen wrote:Damn filters, if my guesses are right here thats probably m ath and p hysics. Generally those are more degrees that lead to research/teaching which will make internships/co-ops quite difficult.

That's true. And okay.

Chen wrote:Whats wrong with big universities?

Personal preference. I don't like the feeling of giant university. 26,000 people is just way too much for me. Miami's 15k is close to the upper limit for me.
------------------
I'm starting to think I may do community college for a semester. I'm going to try to defer my enrollment for Miami. The community college near me is $80/credit hr. So if I overload my schedule (20 credits or so), that's $1600. They also have a $750/semester "Trustee Scholarship" for those with a 3.0, which I have, so it's $950 for 20 credits. I may, however, hold off on any physics courses (I'll hopefully be a semester ahead anyways with AP credits) at community college, and just take my Comp, "Fine Arts," and life science credits (and some others probably), and also take Diff EQ and Linear Algebra. I mean, hey, (let's say with books...) $1200 for 20 credits? I'll take it.

But I still want the full college experience, and get in a real university.

Plus, I'm not the most talkative guy, so I feel like college with a dorm and such will help me make friends easier.

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Re: College debt

Postby Bakemaster » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:04 am UTC

Some community colleges have dorms. For whatever that's worth.

Let us know what the university people say about deferral.
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Re: College debt

Postby cameron432 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:58 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:Let us know what the university people say about deferral.

Well, I would... If I wasn't flagged as spam... I can't send an e-mail to this guy for some reason!

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Re: College debt

Postby Bakemaster » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:06 pm UTC

Look for a phone #. It's okay to use the general office # for the admissions department, this is a policy question that more than just the director of admissions will be trained to answer.
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Re: College debt

Postby Jacque » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:13 pm UTC

cameron432 wrote:
Chen wrote:
Chen wrote:Whats wrong with big universities?

Personal preference. I don't like the feeling o' giant university. 26,000 people is juſt way too much for me. Miami's 15k is close to the upper limit for me.


University of Michigan proper never really felt like 26,000 folk to me (in reality it's 41,000 when including post grads) because it's set in a decently urban environment with plentiful accessible nature stuff around (The Arb, Bot. Gardens, various parks, etc just within the campus vicinity) even though the heart of the campus is right in the middle of the city basically. Also, I've found that the majority of the professors do actually care about teaching, even the high-level (graduate-level) professors. There's a few that care more about their research and exploiting their grad students but if you're talking undergrad, you're not likely to ever encounter them.

Michigan State University has even more people with 36,000 undergrads and ~11,000 post grads, but since the campus is so spread out it feels very comfortable. The student dorms are spread out enough that you don't feel crowded ever, and there's TONS of open space (nice grassy quads and such).

Central's middle-of-nowhere'ness isn't really much of an issue since it's not like Mt. Pleasant is really the middle of nowhere; it's a big enough town with enough to do. You want real middle-of-nowhere, you got Hope, Ferris, Adrian, and Alma to fill that category.

There's Washtenaw Community College which you could always think about. A lot of University of Michigan faculty / former faculty end up teaching there so it's like getting the quality of a UM education at a CC price, and from there it's somewhat easy to transfer in to a more standard 4-year university. Plus, the proximity to Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti, and Detroit mean there's always something to do.

The CC -> 4-year route is definitely one that can save you a good portion of money.

/my Michigan-related 2¢
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Re: College debt

Postby cameron432 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:34 am UTC

Jacque wrote:University of Michigan proper never really felt like 26,000 folk to me (in reality it's 41,000 when including post grads) because it's set in a decently urban environment with plentiful accessible nature stuff around (The Arb, Bot. Gardens, various parks, etc just within the campus vicinity) even though the heart of the campus is right in the middle of the city basically. Also, I've found that the majority of the professors do actually care about teaching, even the high-level (graduate-level) professors. There's a few that care more about their research and exploiting their grad students but if you're talking undergrad, you're not likely to ever encounter them.

It's not the crowdedness... It's the fact that I don't like just falling aside. Miami's an exception (and Dearborn, but only because it's cheap), but really, anything more than 5,000 students I considered out of the question.
And really, nothing about it positively stood out.
Also, being spread out isn't a good thing...

Michigan State University has even more people with 36,000 undergrads and ~11,000 post grads, but since the campus is so spread out it feels very comfortable. The student dorms are spread out enough that you don't feel crowded ever, and there's TONS of open space (nice grassy quads and such).

I don't really consider the bolded a good thing...


There's Washtenaw Community College which you could always think about. A lot of University of Michigan faculty / former faculty end up teaching there so it's like getting the quality of a UM education at a CC price, and from there it's somewhat easy to transfer in to a more standard 4-year university. Plus, the proximity to Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti, and Detroit mean there's always something to do.

If I go to a CC, it'll be Schoolcraft (which is like 2 miles away from my house), and I wouldn't for more than a semester.

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Re: College debt

Postby Cathy » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:31 am UTC

[[Sorry for disappearing from the topic! I'm back!]]

Honestly, I wouldn't discount big schools. It can seem like a lot but when you get into your chosen department it slims down a lot. My college (University of Texas at San Antonio or UTSA) has 30,000 students (not counting grad students and all that) but I've pretty much had all the same people in my classes after all the freshman that were just there for parties dropped out. Of course I'm in the Computer Science department which is smaller than, say, the Liberal Arts/Psychology area, but still. Plus I haven't had a class above 30 people (my average High School class size, actually) since freshman history!

As for ass professors, every school has a few I think, but I haven't encountered any since getting beyond freshman classes.

If you really must get away from parents (and I do understand, mine were abusive and I just had to get out sooner rather than later) then I suggest finding a roommate or three and getting a low-cost apartment near the school of your choice. Keep food costs down with ramen (joking!) and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (not joking). This is also a great way to get the on-your-own feeling without being too far away in reality. If everything goes to hell you can sleep at a friend's or eat ramen for a week or something. Having to pay my own rent was actually a very liberating feeling. In all honesty a lot of the "college experience" is getting smashed drunk and feeling like crap (if you drink) or watching people do absolutely idiotic stuff while drunk and waiting for them to gtfo of your dorm room (if you don't drink). It is very very easy to make friends on campus and hang out and stuff but I don't think you'll really miss out on that if you aren't there for that first semester or two.

As to community college -- are you sure you've gotten all those World Society and Psychology and such credits? I mean, I know it's good to save some of those for junior/senior crazy years (I wish I had!) Also if you have your heart set on Miami, send them emails and bug the shit out of them until they tell you exactly what CC credits WILL and WILL NOT transfer. Same with the AP classes and everything. Some places don't accept AP credits. :(
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Re: College debt

Postby Jacque » Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:45 pm UTC

cameron432 wrote:
Michigan State University has even more people with 36,000 undergrads and ~11,000 post grads, but since the campus is so spread out it feels very comfortable. The student dorms are spread out enough that you don't feel crowded ever, and there's TONS of open space (nice grassy quads and such).

I don't really consider the bolded a good thing...


Spread out in the sense that there is actually green space between the buildings. Yes, the campus is huge, but the fact of the matter is that having any individual major, you're classes are all located in one particular area of campus. Plus, the majority of buildings classes are held in are towards the center of campus.

And on the comment about "falling aside." That's really an up-to-you thing. Be prompt, be attentive, participate like a good student and you won't "fall aside." The only people that fall aside are the ones that don't give a shit about not getting their money's worth.

- - -

The thing I don't like about small schools is that they're like small towns. Everyone eventually knows everyone else and more importantly everyone else's business. And it's especially bad at small schools where your class and near-network of peers tends to be a even smaller subset of the school's general student population. I don't know about you, but I had enough of that growing up in a small town and it's so inane. But that's just my person opinional on the matter, your individual milage may vary.

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Re: College debt

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:49 pm UTC

For what it's worth Jacque, a happy middle is pretty important. I couldn't imagine continuing at a school/program where barcodes on my papers were necessary due to class size, and I was going crazy at the end of my undergrad where I couldn't get work done at the dining hall because everyone I knew was also there.
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Re: College debt

Postby Jacque » Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:54 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I couldn't imagine continuing at a school/program where barcodes on my papers were necessary due to class size, and I was going crazy at the end of my undergrad where I couldn't get work done at the dining hall because everyone I knew was also there.


Barcodes on papers due to class size? What school was this?

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Re: College debt

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:57 pm UTC

UVM, which isn't even a particularly large school. In every paper I turned in my first year, I wrote "Three Blind Mice, Three Blind Mice, la la la la I like cheese" (or something like that) somewhere, randomly in the thing, and only once was it noticed. Shitty TA's I guess.
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Re: College debt

Postby cameron432 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Cathy wrote:[[Sorry for disappearing from the topic! I'm back!]]

Honestly, I wouldn't discount big schools. It can seem like a lot but when you get into your chosen department it slims down a lot. My college (University of Texas at San Antonio or UTSA) has 30,000 students (not counting grad students and all that) but I've pretty much had all the same people in my classes after all the freshman that were just there for parties dropped out. Of course I'm in the Computer Science department which is smaller than, say, the Liberal Arts/Psychology area, but still. Plus I haven't had a class above 30 people (my average High School class size, actually) since freshman history!

Well, it really doesn't matter now... I can't apply to any of these schools...

If you really must get away from parents (and I do understand, mine were abusive and I just had to get out sooner rather than later) then I suggest finding a roommate or three and getting a low-cost apartment near the school of your choice. Keep food costs down with ramen (joking!) and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (not joking). This is also a great way to get the on-your-own feeling without being too far away in reality. If everything goes to hell you can sleep at a friend's or eat ramen for a week or something. Having to pay my own rent was actually a very liberating feeling. In all honesty a lot of the "college experience" is getting smashed drunk and feeling like crap (if you drink) or watching people do absolutely idiotic stuff while drunk and waiting for them to gtfo of your dorm room (if you don't drink). It is very very easy to make friends on campus and hang out and stuff but I don't think you'll really miss out on that if you aren't there for that first semester or two.

I was thinking about that maybe...

As to community college -- are you sure you've gotten all those World Society and Psychology and such credits? I mean, I know it's good to save some of those for junior/senior crazy years (I wish I had!) Also if you have your heart set on Miami, send them emails and bug the shit out of them until they tell you exactly what CC credits WILL and WILL NOT transfer. Same with the AP classes and everything. Some places don't accept AP credits. :(

I would... if I had some way of communicating with them! My e-mail is for some reason blocked by Miami...

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Cathy
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Re: College debt

Postby Cathy » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:14 pm UTC

cameron432 wrote:Well, it really doesn't matter now... I can't apply to any of these schools...

Well -- if you spend a year at CC you can! I think most schools also have an app process for people starting the school spring semester rather than fall.

I was thinking about that maybe...

See if you know anyone who's gonna be at either of these schools, check out online bulletin boards or real life ones. Craigslist is sometimes a good way to find roommates. Check out websites for apartments near the schools, make spreadsheets comparing dorms vs apartments by cost. Develop your argument for the parents for why this is a good idea (if they have a say in it) and for yourself (if they don't).

I would... if I had some way of communicating with them! My e-mail is for some reason blocked by Miami...

I can give you a gmail invitation if you'd like! I've never had a gmail that didn't go through, and also I love having myfullname @gmail.com as a more "official" looking email address. Send a PM my way if you want that. Also, with gmail you can make it so multiple email accounts all forward to that one gmail account, that way you only ever have to check one address. Very convenient.
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Re: College debt

Postby Bakemaster » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:16 am UTC

cameron432 wrote:I would... if I had some way of communicating with them! My e-mail is for some reason blocked by Miami...

Once you go off to college you're expected to be able to communicate with people over the phone, and to have the minimal research abilities required to find a phone number. That expectation begins as soon as you decide you want to apply. Stop using this as an excuse; it won't get you anywhere.
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