Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 3 - An Unexpected Twist)

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:47 am UTC

wam wrote:As attacking the player who is building the case against your buddy is pretty blatant scum behaviour. Therefore scum.bpom wouldn't do it. Town boom who doesn't know the alignments would.
It's only blatant if your buddy flips. At that point bessie was one of many competing wagons. In fact, looking at it now, BoomFrogs voting is a bit weird. He starts with wam. That doesn't get any followers, then he tries Sabrar but after moody votes bessie (and zen votes wam) he moves back to wam. Maybe he didn't want to be voting Sabrar when bessie flipped? At the time boom voted Sabrar the play may have been to eliminate Sabrar to take the pressure off bessie by D2. Hmm, I guess I'm talking BoomFrog down my list.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:27 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:So let me get this right...

BoomFrog: is town because he attacks the person building the case against bessie.

Vicarin: is scum because he argues the meta read of bessie is incorrect.

Or is there something I'm missing?


Different players different reads from the same action.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:29 am UTC

plytho wrote:
wam wrote:As attacking the player who is building the case against your buddy is pretty blatant scum behaviour. Therefore scum.bpom wouldn't do it. Town boom who doesn't know the alignments would.
It's only blatant if your buddy flips. At that point bessie was one of many competing wagons. In fact, looking at it now, BoomFrogs voting is a bit weird. He starts with wam. That doesn't get any followers, then he tries Sabrar but after moody votes bessie (and zen votes wam) he moves back to wam. Maybe he didn't want to be voting Sabrar when bessie flipped? At the time boom voted Sabrar the play may have been to eliminate Sabrar to take the pressure off bessie by D2. Hmm, I guess I'm talking BoomFrog down my list.


I iso read It so I missed the timings. In that look its not as strong as i thought. So yeah will slide him down a bit too.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:34 am UTC

Madge wrote:@Mark: how will my claiming suit help you feel more sure of my alignment? Draw yourself a random non-spade card from here - say I claimed to be whatever that suit is. What would that tell you about my alignment? Just the lack of a counterclaim?

It wouldn't confirm your alignment. But, it would allow any vigs to counterclaim. On that note, I am against vig claims until Madge claims a suit.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:35 am UTC

Also, What is evaluated first, Vig kill or NK?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:39 am UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:Also, What is evaluated first, Vig kill or NK?

According to the op (second post actually) at the same time.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:03 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:
Madge wrote:@Mark: how will my claiming suit help you feel more sure of my alignment? Draw yourself a random non-spade card from here - say I claimed to be whatever that suit is. What would that tell you about my alignment? Just the lack of a counterclaim?

It wouldn't confirm your alignment. But, it would allow any vigs to counterclaim. On that note, I am against vig claims until Madge claims a suit.


I'd say any later vig claim would be less likely to be town than Madge atm, so I think she should keep her suit secret until someone else claims a particular King. If Madge is scum and tries to counterclaim a town Vig after brazenly claiming D2, we still come out way ahead, and if she doesn't while being scum, she'd have to guess there was a Vig out there that would eventually claim, or else her Vig claim just gets her killed after several no-shot days.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby mpolo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:56 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Vicarin wrote:Isn't wam just after me in his reads list?

You're right. I missed it twice.

mpolo wrote:wam - vote on bessie came late, and the wagon was pretty much decided. Keeps pressure against plytho.

This summery sounds like all scummyness. Why does this warrant a position above me and Zenii?


I said that the reads were not ordered within the groups. I spent like two hours taking notes and had no time left to fine-tune. Now it seems like you're not reading completely. (Which I was guilty of on your post earlier…)
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby mpolo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:59 pm UTC

Also, Mark's last push to get Madge's suit feels wrong. He does say that he's not asking for vig counter-claims, but the likelihood that there would be a counterclaim for her suit are so low, that the whole suit claim seems more useful for scum than for town.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:10 pm UTC

I think I'd like claims from Mark, moody, SuperJedi, and wam, seeing as they're looking decently likely to be lynched or shot by Madge, and losing a PR without a claim would be a waste...

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:17 pm UTC

Unofficial Votals:

Vicarin (3): SuperJedi, moody, wam
SuperJedi (1): Vicarin
moody (1): Zen
Mark_cangila (1): boomfrog
Boomfrog (1): Mark_Cangila

Not voting: Madge, , mpolo, plytho

Given the above Vic shouldn't you claim....
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:18 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:I think I'd like claims from Mark, moody, SuperJedi, and wam, seeing as they're looking decently likely to be lynched or shot by Madge, and losing a PR without a claim would be a waste...


See if this was anyone other than Vic I would chalk until to nervous scum trying to hit pr tonight but given Vic pushes for claims as any alignment I view it as nai.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:58 pm UTC

I'm thinking I should wait to claim. There are two days left for D2.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:08 pm UTC

Zenii wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:Zen is both good at faking tone.
It makes me very happy that you think this, but I'm curious... what is your source?
We are kindred spirits, what is true if me is mostly true of you. You are clearly a power player. YOLO warned us and you concurred that you play an excellent scum game. And lastly, the ability to deeply read others tone also grants good self awareness of your own tone.

BoomFrog wrote:Also, I wanted to reply to this but never found a good time. I was actually ninja'd in between those two posts, I read the first, replied then read the second post by Sabrar and wrote the second half of the reply.
This isn't possible though because you made a post in between:
...
Am I missing something?
I often compose multiple posts simultaneously. My process is to catch up on the thread, quote all the things I want to reply to in new tabs. Then compose replies. I don't recall how it happened exactly in this example, but the first reply was composed before reading the second quote. I would guess I wasn't satisfied with my original analysis and wanted to get it right to impress Sabrar then when I came back to it I had more information so just added on.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:37 pm UTC

SuperJedi224 wrote:
plytho wrote:Why did you file [moody] under town in the first place?


Will try to answer this one later, don't have time right now.
How about now?
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:56 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
SuperJedi224 wrote:
plytho wrote:Why did you file [moody] under town in the first place?


Will try to answer this one later, don't have time right now.
How about now?


Moody went from slight town
to leaning further town

Was top town at the start of D2
because he was town before

I've asked you why after each of those posts, starting on page 9 and you still haven't answered.

Maybe this will help?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby SuperJedi224 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:05 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
SuperJedi224 wrote:
plytho wrote:Why did you file [moody] under town in the first place?


Will try to answer this one later, don't have time right now.
How about now?


Regarding the original slight town lean, most of what I had to go on at the time was this post and some of his earlier comments, although I'll admit that this post probably influenced my initial read somewhat.

Later there's this, particularly in light of the bessie/sabrar flip.

Admittedly, I'm now finding this a little bit suspicious. But I still think moody's probably town.

plytho wrote:Maybe this will help?

Vote: SuperJedi


Not really, no.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby SuperJedi224 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:07 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:SuperJedi is all over the place... some signs of making an ordered list "just to make us happy"


Admittedly, this isn't entirely inaccurate.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:10 pm UTC

SuperJedi224 wrote:Regarding the original slight town lean, most of what I had to go on at the time was this post and some of his earlier comments, although I'll admit that this post probably influenced my initial read somewhat.

Later there's this, particularly in light of the bessie/sabrar flip.

What about all those posts makes moody townie? Please be very specific.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Zenii » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:47 pm UTC

wam wrote:Formatting issues nothing more. As I started with the player list in op then moved to categories.
I believe you.
wam wrote:Why did you push me to claim and haven't pushed anyone else under suspicion?
The presupposition is actually wrong. I'm not asking you to claim because you're under suspicion. I'm asking you to claim because I want you to claim. I never expect for someone to give into my totalitarian demands, but I always figure its worth a try.

BoomFrog wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:Am I missing something?
I often compose multiple posts simultaneously. My process is to catch up on the thread, quote all the things I want to reply to in new tabs. Then compose replies.
Fair enough. (Also I think YOLO's point wasn't that I am a threat, but that I am a liability :P )

Moody is still my top pick for today. I'd compromise on Mark or Jedi. Though since moody probably wasn't in Madge's list, I'd prefer that route. We need to start settling though and get claims out if necessary. Regarding vig claims, I don't think it matters much one way or the other, but Vic's reasoning makes sense.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby moody7277 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:58 pm UTC

Re claims: I'm game for it early D3. I'd prefer the order chosen by plytho or Madge.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:11 pm UTC

I'd be happy to claim suits now in an order determined by plytho. We can claim PRs D3 maybe.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:19 pm UTC

My preferred suit claim order is the reverse of my sloppy reads list.

Everyone should claim a suit today except for Madge.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:26 pm UTC

Plytho
Madge
BoomFrog
Zen
Mpolo
Moody
Vicarin
Wam
SuperJedi
Mark
That means Mark should claim suit first. @plytho are you sure you want Vic that far down? (and me so far up? you seemed to feel I was moving down the list.) Also, I'd still like you to claim suit at the end.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:32 pm UTC

Vicarin is fine where he is, you should maybe go between moody and mpolo.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:43 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
SuperJedi224 wrote:Regarding the original slight town lean, most of what I had to go on at the time was this post and some of his earlier comments, although I'll admit that this post probably influenced my initial read somewhat.

Later there's this, particularly in light of the bessie/sabrar flip.

What about all those posts makes moody townie? Please be very specific.
And while you're at it, please also explain why you were voting for me D1.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:49 pm UTC

Also, because they are kind of lurky.
SuperJedi224 wrote: Hi

Mark_Cangila wrote:there

Mark, SuperJedi, your next post should include your suit claim. I don't care who goes first.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:58 pm UTC

I'd obviously prefer to be slightly further up in the list, but should be fine :P

I'm still kind of baffled that SuperJedi has been steadfastly refusing to explain WHY certain posts are scummy, despite several people explicitly asking for that information...

@wam: seeing as the main people on me probably include the scum bloc, I'm not feeling terribly inclined to claim first just because I'm leading the votals right now.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:00 pm UTC

Sounds good. Diamonds.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:34 pm UTC

wam wrote:
Vicarin wrote:I think I'd like claims from Mark, moody, SuperJedi, and wam, seeing as they're looking decently likely to be lynched or shot by Madge, and losing a PR without a claim would be a waste...


See if this was anyone other than Vic I would chalk until to nervous scum trying to hit pr tonight but given Vic pushes for claims as any alignment I view it as nai.


Clearly it would be sooooooo difficult to hit a PR tonight as scum without more claims as well /s

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:43 pm UTC

I'm baffled that SuperJedi, moody, wam and Mark all still think Vic is scummy. I really doubt Zen, plytho and I are all misreading him, but I also expected scum on the Vic train to have slinked off by now. Well SuperJedi and Mark are fairly understandable. I guess a lack of any town consensus has emboldened whichever of them are scum.

Vote wam

I'm happy to move back to Mark. I'm thinking about moody.

Zenii wrote:Moody is still my top pick for today. I'd compromise on Mark or Jedi.

Why not wam? Is it because I want wam?

Also, @Zenii and plytho: Who do you think Jedi's partner might be? Everyone's taken a shot at him.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:45 pm UTC

@Mark: Either Vic is scum or there's defiantly scum among wam, moody, and SuperJedi. Who do you think it is and why?
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Zenii » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:17 am UTC

I'm helpless. I really need to finish my work, but if I don't block mafia out entirely, it just consumes my thoughts.

@boom, regarding wam -- meta. From what I've seen of scum wam, he puts in a lot of effort toward perception management. He doesn't seem to care this game. I also like his non-apologetic response earlier. Thinking about it more though, this could just be demotivated wam. He also made a similar slip to his contradicting Vic read here... Yeah, actually.

Vote: wam

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Zenii » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:20 am UTC

I need to think everything over, but don't have the time right now. I'll be back tomorrow evening.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:23 am UTC

Well, hopefully the suit claim chain will have reached you by then...

Are you referring specifically to Stellaris when you say that about scum wam? Because I don't really remember him doing quite that in WoT3 or Alien (maybe I wasn't paying enough attention in WoT3)...

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:39 am UTC

Alright, I feel like Zen it's really not pushing any specific agenda. I'm going to bet solid town on them. I hearby rescind my proclamation of doom on Zen. I repeat, cancel my previous orders:
BoomFrog wrote: if we misslynch until LYLO and Zen is still alive, lynch Zen. I'm serious, if I'm dead and that situation comes up and I am ignored I will frown at everyone sternly from beyond the grave.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:49 am UTC

@boom convince me what is driving your town read on Vic?

@Zen I enjoy playing scum more so demotivated=Town!
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:50 am UTC

Oh and diamonds
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:00 am UTC

Kipp:
Security is milling about again. Something must be up.

François:
A few players are also very low on chips. I think we may see another all in very soon.


Votals:

Vicarin (3): SuperJedi, moody, wam
SuperJedi (2): Vicarin, plytho
BoomFrog (1): Mark_Cangila
wam (2): BoomFrog, Zenii

Not voting: mpolo, Madge

Deadline in about 36 hours

Please remember that you need to submit any night actions you may have before the end of the day.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:29 am UTC

Zenii wrote:From what I've seen of scum wam, he puts in a lot of effort toward perception management.


This is a really nice phrase I may steal!
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