Matrix6 Newbie: Game Over - Town Win

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Suzaku
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Matrix6 Newbie: Game Over - Town Win

Postby Suzaku » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:48 pm UTC

Matrix6 Newbie Game


Mod: Suzaku
Size: 9
Complexity: Low
Setup: Open
Barstardry: None
Speed: 5-day days, 2.5-day nights. Weekends count as half time, accommodations made for holidays etc.
Flavour: Maybe :)

Standard Rules:
Spoiler:
Posting rules:
  1. No posting in this thread unless you are playing in it.
  2. No talking about this game except in this thread or in an appropriately titled spoiler in the discussion thread.
  3. No player may read discussion spoilers about this game unless they are dead. There are no spoiler reading roles.
  4. No editing your posts. For any reason. At any time.
  5. Do not lurk! One post per real-life day is the recommended minimum. (If you're going to be unable to post for any period of time, please let the mod(s) know ahead of time). Consideration will be given for weekends.
  6. Players lurking excessively will be replaced or, if replacement is not possible, modkilled.
  7. Any player who is modkilled will have their role retconned to ‘Survivor’ meaning they will automatically lose.
  8. You may post in thread during the day phase but not the night phase. It is night when the mod posts a day-end post (this will not be before the official deadline, but won't be much after it, either), or a hammer vote is cast, in which case it is automatically night, whether or not the mod has made a day-end post. Note that this means you may not post content after a hammer vote.
  9. You may not post, nor quote directly from, any PM from a mod. Paraphrasing is fine.
  10. You may not play to lose, or act in a way that is clearly against your win condition.
  11. You may not use encryption systems in order to communicate privately or circumvent these rules.
  12. This is a game; it’s meant to be fun. Personal attacks or other offensive behavior towards other players will not be tolerated.

Deadlines:
  1. In general, days will last for 5 RL days and nights for 2.5 RL days. Weekends will count as half time.
  2. Adjustments will be made to accommodate holidays, or for other reasons if the mod deems it necessary.
  3. In-thread deadline announcements from the mod override these rules.
  4. Requests for extensions will be considered, but you’d better have a good reason. “We need more general discussion,” is not a good reason.

Voting rules:
  1. Votes and questions for the mod must be posted in bold and on a new line, like this:
    Vote: Suzaku

    You do NOT have to unvote to change votes, but it makes things easier and will be very much appreciated if you do. You can unvote in bold and on a new line, like this:
    Unvote (Suzaku)
    Vote: Ukazus

  2. When someone gains a majority of the votes (that is, more than half the number of living players), they are automatically lynched and it becomes night, as above. Posting content after the hammer vote is not allowed, even if the hammer vote was accidental.
  3. If the deadline is reached and no player has been hammered, then the person with the most votes at the deadline will be lynched.
  4. If the votals are tied, then random.org will randomly select one of the tied players to be lynched, unless all players are voting solely for the tied players, in which case there will be no lynch..
  5. You can vote not to lynch anyone by casting a vote for "NL" or “No Lynch”. “No Lynch” will be treated exactly the same as any other player for determining votal results.

Death rules:
  1. You’re alive until you are hammered in a lynch, or a mod tells you that you're dead, by PM or in thread.
  2. Once you die, you may no longer post content in this thread. You may post death flavour or a ‘Bah! You killed me,’ post that reveals no information.
  3. On the other hand, once you are dead you may read the spoilers in the discussion thread.

Private Message rules:
  1. You must include the mod in any PM you send related to this game.
  2. You can ask the mod questions by PM (at any time) if you'd rather not ask in thread.
  3. No PMing other players concerning this game unless your role specifically allows it.
  4. Any night actions must be sent by PM before the night deadline. If sent as part of a factional chat, please indicate the action in bold on a new line, as with voting. If you don’t do this and I miss your action, tough.
  5. If everyone with a night action and/or chat is ready to start the next day before the deadline for night is reached, the next day will begin early.


Game Setup:
Spoiler:
This is an open set up.
This means that I will tell you what the setup is, honestly, and will answer any questions about the setup the best I can.

The roles for this game shall be determined in the following manner based on this matrix:

Code: Select all

┌────────┬────────────────────┬────────────────┬──────────────┐
│ Number │          1         │        2       │       3      │
├────────┼────────────────────┼────────────────┼──────────────┤
│   4    │ Town Jailkeeper    │ Vanilla Townie │ Mafia Goon   │
├────────┼────────────────────┼────────────────┼──────────────┤
│   5    │ Mafia Roleblocker  │ Town Cop       │ Town Doctor  │
├────────┼────────────────────┼────────────────┼──────────────┤
│   6    │ Bulletproof Townie │ Mafia Goon     │ Town Tracker │
└────────┴────────────────────┴────────────────┴──────────────┘


A number from 1 to 6 will be chosen randomly by random.org and the roles in the row or column corresponding to that number will be selected to be in the game. Following this, Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons will be added to bring the total number of roles to 7 town and 2 Mafia.

For example, if the number 5 is chosen, the roles will be Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Town Doctor, and 5 Vanilla Townies.

The exact setup that is selected will NOT be revealed.

Notes:
The Bulletproof ability is one-shot only, and does not protect from lynches.
The Mafia Roleblocker is able to use the Roleblock ability and perform the Mafia kill on the same night.
The Bulletproof ability is reflexive and cannot be Roleblocked.
The Mafia Roleblock resolves before the Town Jailkeep.

Players will be assigned to roles randomly, and you will receive a role PM explaining your role.

Winning and losing:
  • Town win when all Mafia are dead.
  • Mafia win either when they have an absolute majority of players (i.e. can control the lynch), or when nothing can prevent this from happening.
  • If this is unclear, please ask and I will attempt to clarify further.

Reveals:
  • Dead players’ roles will be fully revealed the morning after they die.


Role PMs:
Spoiler:
VT:
Hey, don’t shoot me! I didn’t see nothing, I swear!

Your Role: Vanilla Townie
<name>, you are a Vanilla Townie. During the day you try to protect yourself from the Mafia by voting on who should be lynched. At night, you cower in your bed hoping they don’t come after you.

Abilities:
  • You have no special abilities, and have to rely on your wits, your cunning and your vote.

Win condition:
You win when all Mafia are eliminated.


Goon:
So what’s up, boss? You need me to rub somebody out?

Your Role: Mafia Goon
<name> you are a Mafia goon. During the day you pretend to be a law-abiding townie, but at night you gather with <player> to plot and plan your takeover of the town.

Abilities:
  • Mafia Chat - During the night phases (only) you may communicate with <player> via PMs. Please include me in all PMs.
  • Mafia Kill - Once per night you may choose a hapless townie to shoot. Whoever submits the kill, by posting Kill: [Target] bolded on a new line in the chat, will carry it out.

Win condition:
You win when you have an absolute majority of living players, or when nothing can prevent that from happening.


Notes for Newbies
Spoiler:
Welcome, newbies, to the XKCD forum Mafia community. Here are a few notes that might be of use to you.

First, you may wish to familiarise yourselves, if you’re not already, with the somewhat esoteric jargon and multifarious abbreviations used. You can see many fine examples of these at the Rules and Noob Guide. thread.

Then, in the interests of politeness to your fellow players of the game, you may wish to visit the Gender pronouns for our players! thread. You may, in fact, care to add your own preferences to the list.

More in depth articles about the origins, history, strategy, etc. of our great game can be found at Mafia Scum as well as at other locations in cyberspace that should be revealed to you by the search engine of your choice.

Please feel free to ask me questions at any point, either in-thread or by PM. The experienced players will also be willing to help out (Experienced players: this is not a suggestion)

Most of all, have fun :)


Player list:
Alive:
  1. kalira
  2. sco
  3. bessie
  4. Adam H
  5. wam

Dead:
  1. Xenomortis - Lynched D1 - Vanilla Town
  2. lynx - Lynched D2 - Mafia Roleblocker
  3. Madge - Killed N2 - Vanilla Town
  4. firesoul31 - Lynched D3 - Mafia Goon

PMs will be going out soon have been sent. Please post a confirmation once you receive yours. Please do not post game content before the game starts. Questions about the setup, or about Mafia in general are fine.
Last edited by Suzaku on Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:43 am UTC, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby Xenomortis » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:07 pm UTC

Confirmed.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby wam » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:17 pm UTC

Confirm
Come join us playing mafia signup here

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Adam H
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby Adam H » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:43 pm UTC

Yupyupyup I'm playing the game!
-Adam

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kalira
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby kalira » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:00 pm UTC

Confirmed. (Will be out of town and possibly out of internet this weekend... Hoping I don't miss too much.)
plytho wrote:Isn't bowling just a subcategory of pottery?

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby lynx » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:41 pm UTC

Confirming. Hello new players!

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Madge
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby Madge » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:44 pm UTC

Hello everybody!!!!!!!! I am ready for action!
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby firesoul31 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:18 pm UTC

Confirm
Pronouns: she/her/hers or they/them please.

sco
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby sco » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:17 am UTC

confirmed

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby bessie » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:29 am UTC

Confirm.

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Suzaku
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby Suzaku » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:44 am UTC

All players having confirmed, the game may now commence.

9 alive, 5 to hammer. Deadline in 7 days from now.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby firesoul31 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:55 am UTC

1) Which setup is most favorable to town? To scum?
2) Should any power-roles claim? When?
3) Do you prefer town or mafia?
4) Lynch active lurkers, or not?
5) On day 1, would you rather lynch someone looking scummy but providing good content, or someone looking townie but providing almost no content? On later days?
6) If you were scum, who would you like to be your scum-mate?

Just some questions for discussion.
Pronouns: she/her/hers or they/them please.

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby firesoul31 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:27 am UTC

firesoul31 wrote:1) Which setup is most favorable to town? To scum?
2) Should any power-roles claim? When?
3) Do you prefer town or mafia?
4) Lynch active lurkers, or not?
5) On day 1, would you rather lynch someone looking scummy but providing good content, or someone looking townie but providing almost no content? On later days?
6) If you were scum, who would you like to be your scum-mate?

Just some questions for discussion.


1) I'm fond of 1 myself - lots of kill-protection. In 3, though, the tracker doesn't really help, since the doctor and the mafia should be targeting the same person. (They both want to get the towniest person.) Plus, it could be mistaken with 6.
2) Cops with a scum result, jail keeper that prevents a kill, bulletproof townie if shot, tracker if they can make a good case (rarely).
3) I'm not allowed to talk about active games... let it suffice to say that I have no clue. I think mafia would be fun though (if we're talking about vanilla, at least).
4) Only if there's nothing else to go on.
5) I would say that, on day 1, it's more important to lynch the low-contributing people (unless they have a valid excuse). Later, scumhunting takes precedence.
6) Lataro. But in this game, Adam H. He did very well as scum in Resistance, and that's really the only recent game I've followed.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby firesoul31 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:38 am UTC

By the way, Adam H, Lynx, wam, and I prefer male pronouns. Madge prefers either female pronouns or they/their/them, and everyone else isn't on the pronoun list.
Pronouns: she/her/hers or they/them please.

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby sco » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:48 am UTC

I think 3 would be interesting to play, or maybe 1. I'd agree with your assessment of who should claim, although I'd think that that might tend to get them killed. I've never played this before but in this sort of game I've always had fun with the sneakier roles. Always lynch the scummiest looking person I'd say but I'm not sure how to determine this in the first day or two, I guess we'll see. well, that's all for now.

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby Xenomortis » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:13 am UTC

1) Which setup is most favorable to town? To scum?
1 and 5 are the only two that include a power role for scum, 5 and 3 have a Doctor, 5 and 2 have the Cop.
Despite the power role, I think I'd go with 5 as the most town biased, due to Town having both a Cop and Doctor.
I'd toss between 2 and 3 being the best for scum.

2) Should any power-roles claim? When?
Well if you're about to be lynched its obviously a good time. I think it'd be a good idea to counter-claim too; at least claim a row or column if it would counter someone's claim.

3) Do you prefer town or mafia?
Both get pretty stressful by the end. No real preference.

4) Lynch active lurkers, or not?
Only so far as it's a scum-tell.

5) On day 1, would you rather lynch someone looking scummy but providing good content, or someone looking townie but providing almost no content? On later days?
Those aren't oxymorons?

6) If you were scum, who would you like to be your scum-mate?
Adam.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby kalira » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:15 pm UTC

I've been trying to follow Salem a bit to get an idea for how this goes, but I guess it's really just something you have to experience to get.

1) Which setup is most favorable to town? To scum?
Setup 1 seems most favorable to scum. Gives them a power role which can't be taken away by the Jailkeeper's role-blocking, and there is nobody to discover anything about them during the night. I'd say 3 or 6 is most favorable to town. Two power roles to scum's zero,

2) Should any power-roles claim? When?
I have to assume no, especially on the first day. Seems like it would only make them quick and easy targets for night kill. I guess if and when they are given information that outs scum, they'll have to make the decision from there whether to potentially sacrifice themselves for the greater good.

3) Do you prefer town or mafia?
I have no experience either way, so I'll have to abstain from this one.

4) Lynch active lurkers, or not?
I am torn here. I like the idea, given that they will have contributed theoretically little to the game, but I have a tendency to lurk, sooooo I obviously don't want myself to get lynched. So, I suppose, in general yes, but in practice don't lynch me? :)

5) On day 1, would you rather lynch someone looking scummy but providing good content, or someone looking townie but providing almost no content? On later days?
I'm not even sure how one would look scummy on day 1... would seem kind of silly for scum to do anything that would actively draw attention to themselves as scum quite so early, especially given they are really outnumbered on day 1. As for later days, I'll just have to wait and see what happens this game.

6) If you were scum, who would you like to be your scum-mate?
Erm, I suppose I should probably choose someone with experience playing as scum, but I will buck the trend and say sco. Ya know, keep your friends close and your MtG opponents closer. Wait, what do you mean that's not how the saying goes?


Side note: I am female, and prefer feminine pronouns, but will not get offended if you accidentally use male ones.

Newbie questions: Am I misreading, or (given the note that Mafia Roleblocker would resolve before Jailkeeper), isn't the Jailkeeper really just a Doctor in scenario 1 or 4? If I'm wrong, could someone explain a little more?

Does one know if they have been targeted by a power role (e.g., the Doctor protected you/the Cop investigated you/the Roleblocker prevented your night action)? I know the Cop/Tracker gets information (unless roleblocked), but do the protective roles know whether their night moves (*starts singing*) are successful other than the fact that the person they protected is still alive in the morning? Does the Roleblocker know if he/she prevented a night action (this would seem like it would give out too much information, IMO, but still asking just in case I'm wrong)?
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby Xenomortis » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:25 pm UTC

kalira wrote:Newbie questions: Am I misreading, or (given the note that Mafia Roleblocker would resolve before Jailkeeper), isn't the Jailkeeper really just a Doctor in scenario 1 or 4? If I'm wrong, could someone explain a little more?

If the Jailkeeper targets the mafia selected to carry out the night kill, the night kill won't happen.
In the two setups where the Jailkeeper can appear, he's a more versatile Doctor.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby sco » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:56 pm UTC

kalira wrote:6) If you were scum, who would you like to be your scum-mate?
Erm, I suppose I should probably choose someone with experience playing as scum, but I will buck the trend and say sco. Ya know, keep your friends close and your MtG opponents closer. Wait, what do you mean that's not how the saying goes?


Thanks, I think? wish I could oblige but I'm not scum this time. of course, what else would I say? Far better ending to that quote in my book.

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby Adam H » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:22 pm UTC

firesoul31 wrote:1) Which setup is most favorable to town? To scum?
2) Should any power-roles claim? When?
3) Do you prefer town or mafia?
4) Lynch active lurkers, or not?
5) On day 1, would you rather lynch someone looking scummy but providing good content, or someone looking townie but providing almost no content? On later days?
6) If you were scum, who would you like to be your scum-mate?

Just some questions for discussion.

1. They're all pretty balanced, but I think 4 is the best for town. Jailkeepers are awesome, and scum wouldn't have a power role. 3 or 6 is probably worst for town. But I really have no idea. They're so well balanced that they'd all be decided by the skill of the players more than anything.

2. Generally, power roles should claim before they get lynched. Also, they should counterclaim another player's claim if they know it to be false. On top of that, a cop should probably claim iff we're about to lynch a player they know is townie, or if they got a scum result the previous night. A tracker should claim if they tracked someone to a player who was killed the previous night. A jailkeeper should probably just never claim (except before getting lynched and to counterclaim a cop/tracker/doctor claim).

3. I prefer mafia, probably. I'm going through a phase as town where I feel like I never have any idea who scum is and if I'm right then it's complete luck. So that's kind of discouraging... But as mafia I always know who scum is. :)

4. I'm a fan of lynching lurkers. Talkative players are generally town. "Active Lurker", by the way, is a player that posts but doesn't really say anything. As opposed to a "passive lurker", who just doesn't post (so it's usually a real life problem instead of a sign of scumminess).

5. Related to #4, I would much rather lynch someone who has provided no content. If you're giving good content, I'm going to think you are a town. On later days this could change if we have voting records or power role claims to base our votes on, but generally I still tend to reward content.

6. Madge is one cold hard bitch as scum and I'm calling it right now: if she's scum, we're gonna lose. :P

kalira wrote:Does one know if they have been targeted by a power role (e.g., the Doctor protected you/the Cop investigated you/the Roleblocker prevented your night action)? I know the Cop/Tracker gets information (unless roleblocked), but do the protective roles know whether their night moves (*starts singing*) are successful other than the fact that the person they protected is still alive in the morning? Does the Roleblocker know if he/she prevented a night action (this would seem like it would give out too much information, IMO, but still asking just in case I'm wrong)?
-Players aren't usually told whether they were targeted by doctor, cop, or tracker.
-Roleblockers and Jailkeepers aren't usually told whether their target attempted to take an action.
-Players may or may not be told whether they were roleblocked. This is a good question so I'll repeat it for the mod (sometimes mods only look at bold text):

Which roles are informed when they are roleblocked?
-Adam

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby Suzaku » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:39 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:Which roles are informed when they are roleblocked?
Any role that would normally receive a result (Cop or Tracker for this game) will receive "No Result" iff roleblocked. No other role will be informed, their action will simply not occur.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby bessie » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:01 pm UTC

Hi everyone, excited to be playing my first game! I have a couple newbie questions before I respond to firesoul31.

Does the town tracker actually block any actions, or does he just receive information?
Can the mafia roleblocker be used on another mafia member to block the jailkeep/cop/doctor/tracker, or just on townies?

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby Xenomortis » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:06 pm UTC

Roleblocker stops the target using any action; it doesn't prevent an action targeting them. The Mafia RB targeting another mafioso would be counterproductive.
Tracker has no effect on their target.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby wam » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:33 pm UTC

Should pre warn you all I am shattered and my brain isn't working.

firesoul31 wrote:1) Which setup is most favorable to town? To scum?
2) Should any power-roles claim? When?
3) Do you prefer town or mafia?
4) Lynch active lurkers, or not?
5) On day 1, would you rather lynch someone looking scummy but providing good content, or someone looking townie but providing almost no content? On later days?
6) If you were scum, who would you like to be your scum-mate?

Just some questions for discussion.


1) they all look pretty even to me, mafia scum as a website is very serious about balance.

2) When they have results, If a tracker follows some one to a guy who turns up dead let us all know ASAP. However, if you follow someone to someone who doesn't die don't claim as you will out the other power role. If no one dies keep following them till one of the above is true. If you JL someone and no one dies you should consider claiming but I would suggest tragetting them gain.

3) Mafia, I feel like I am in the same boat as adam with my recent reads not being great. Although my fav is SK which we don't have.

4) Yep lynch away

5) I agree that those are very unlikely to go together but I would judge each one on its merits.

6) I'm going to go with adam.

More actual anayliss tomorrow.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby Madge » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:20 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:6. Madge is one cold hard bitch as scum and I'm calling it right now: if she's scum, we're gonna lose. :P


Just want to say I'm flattered and bewildered by this statement! But rest assured I'm town, which is also bad news because I tend to have really, really poor scumdar as town. (Basically, I think scum tends to win when I'm playing). I think I need to go through some sort of town strategy boot camp, that might fix things.

Anyway, games like this are kind of terrifying because town is very limited in the amount of information they've got and are able to get from power roles (since we only have a maximum of two PRs if I'm reading this right?).

1) Which setup is most favorable to town? To scum?
I'm really not very good at gauging the level of balance in a setup, so I'm not sure beyond the obvious "the ones with investigative roles benefit us" sort of observations.

2) Should any power-roles claim? When?
Claim when you have information that will cause us to either lynch the right guy, or to avoid a mislynch. This includes claiming your power role when you think odds are good you're a lynch target (e.g. several players are calling you scummy), and when someone else claims your role or a role you know can't be in the game (if they claim your role, claim in full; if they claim a role you know is impossible - e.g. they claim doctor and you're a jailkeeper - then just counterclaim saying you are from a different row and column - don't give the one you're in as it will help mafia claim the right thing, and also give mafia information about the setup).

3) Do you prefer town or mafia?
Mafia, it's less stressful and I more or less know exactly what's going on. I have trouble detecting scum tells as town, whereas with mafia I can just pick a target and find things that they've posted that seem scummy and accuse them based on that. (That's what I did during the HPMoR game)

4) Lynch active lurkers, or not?
If we're in a situation where we have to resort to lynching active lurkers, then almost by definition we don't have any good scumtells to work from. If we have nothing better to go from then of course we should lynch active lurkers, because if they're not scum they're less useful town players than people providing content. (Also, the more content someone provides the easier it is to find contradictions).

5) On day 1, would you rather lynch someone looking scummy but providing good content, or someone looking townie but providing almost no content? On later days?
If someone's providing almost no content it's time to call them out on it, make them post more, and/or modkill them. However, it seems to me on day 1 that the person who looks the scummiest (particularly if they get into a "fight" with someone) is often just a passionate town player. After D1 though scummy play like that should not be looked upon so lightly.

6) If you were scum, who would you like to be your scum-mate?
Adam, because he gave me a compliment, also because he's very knowledgeable and experienced about the game and would be able to help me out.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby Suzaku » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:24 pm UTC

Current Votals:

None

Not Voting: Adam H, bessie, firesoul31, kalira, lynx, Madge, sco, wam, Xenomortis

Deadline is 2013/11/20 13:00 JST (04:00 UTC), in about 5 days and 15 hours.


Madge wrote:2) Should any power-roles claim? When?

No comment. :twisted:
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby Adam H » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:46 pm UTC

Madge wrote:
Adam H wrote:6. Madge is one cold hard bitch as scum and I'm calling it right now: if she's scum, we're gonna lose. :P
Just want to say I'm flattered and bewildered by this statement!

I just looked back at recent games to see if I'm misremembering, and I guess I'm just thinking of ice cream mafia when you wrapped me around your finger and made me do things that I'm horribly ashamed of. Curse you! :P

Vote: wam

I don't know, something about "more analysis tomorrow" in your first post seems scummy to me. Like you're worried we'll accuse you of active lurking or something.
-Adam

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby bessie » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:11 pm UTC

firesoul31 wrote:1) Which setup is most favorable to town? To scum?
2) Should any power-roles claim? When?
3) Do you prefer town or mafia?
4) Lynch active lurkers, or not?
5) On day 1, would you rather lynch someone looking scummy but providing good content, or someone looking townie but providing almost no content? On later days?
6) If you were scum, who would you like to be your scum-mate?

Just some questions for discussion.


1. I like setup 1 for town. Mafia needs to know who the jailkeeper is to block them, and if they target the bulletproof townie they waste a kill. Setup 2 looks best for mafia, the cop would need to claim and there is no doctor to protect the cop.
2. No one should claim until they need to claim to prevent a mislynch.
3. No opinion yet.
4. Sure, why not?
5. On day one, I would rather have someone who is providing good content even if they appear scummy, because they are moving the game along and hopefully getting everyone to talk. If they're still scummy by day two or three, lynch them.
6. Adam is a good scum player, but I'll go with lynx. He's a good scum hunter, and if I were scum I would want him on my team, not against me.

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby kalira » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:09 pm UTC

So what is "good content"? and how is there anything to analyze at this point? Maybe it's just me, but any analysis at this point seems to me like kind of a "Half-Life 3 confirmed" conversation. Or is that perhaps more in the territory of wine?
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: Pregame

Postby wam » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:16 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:
I don't know, something about "more analysis tomorrow" in your first post seems scummy to me. Like you're worried we'll accuse you of active lurking or something.


Actually it was to motivate myself to not lurk!

So far we ahve one vote by adam, which is weak but he gets townie points for puching conversation.

I also think the last post by Kalira comes across slightly more newbie scum than town, just the way it was phrased.

Firesouls questions are decent but very standard.

Everyone else is neutral.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby sco » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:16 pm UTC

yeah, I'd wondered that myself. I mean, if we keep everyone talking long enough someone might slip and say something to give themselves away but on the hole I'm not sure what we can analyse. Unless we go the full on conspiracy route, such as "kalira just suggested that analyzing is pointless to try to get us to stop analyzing so she must be scum!" but I'm not sure that's going to help us. please don't use this sort of alarmist, paranoid semi-logic to accuse me now that i've brought it up, if for no other reason than the fact that if I was scum I wouldn't have pointed it out.

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby sco » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:17 pm UTC

sorry, ninja'd, my previous post was in response to kalira, it's pretty obvious but I thought I should clarify.

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby kalira » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:22 pm UTC

I'm not saying we *shouldn't* analyze, I'm just curious *what* people analyze. I'm not scum, just curious/OCD/analytical with no real clue of what to analyze.

(And now, I'm sure, come the "She immediately denied scumminess when accused! Clearly scum!" comments.)
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby wam » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:26 pm UTC

On a general note this is why D1 is the hardest day.

Basic strategies are

Random voting, by analysing how people react to votes on them and other people you can build up links.

Random questions, as we started with you can gain information and tells based on what we had.

Setup sepcification, this is part to help us get a picture but can also generate tells based on who knows too much. This is not really relevant as the setup is known.

Also I am guilty of this as well but I am intruiged by the denials of madge and adam's scum hunting ability, this looks to me like scummy players trying to get excuses for mis lynchs in early. As well given how madge was trying to down play her ability as scum I am going to

vote madge

@ Kalira I am hoping the above will help, I am also going to write up some more general non d1 hunting strategies.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby sco » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:31 pm UTC

No, my comment was supposed to be showing the dangers of basing these things on such small clues but from what I can see that's all we've got. I think we're going to need to put quite a few more together before we lynch someone but I imagine their less difficult to find than you'd expect. personally I'd watch language usage, people tend to be a lot more careful about what they say when they're trying to misdirect people, although the fact that this is on a forum and gives people time to think before submitting their comments might make it more difficult. I'd also tend to lean more towards people who did jump on small things as immediate reasons to lynch someone but, again, not enough on its own for me to put my vote in. For the more experienced players, has anyone tried using these criteria before and how did it work out? Obviously these would work best early on, when there are fewer other clues, later there'll obviously be other things to analyze.

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby wam » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:34 pm UTC

Basic Scumtells I look for

- Knowing more than other people, more obvious in closed games but in this could contain comments that assume a scum power
- Voting patterns, avoiding voting someone who comes up scum, piling onto someone who comes up town.
- being cautious with opinions/votes (this is hard to tell with a genearlly cautious player)
- Buddying, enternally defending someone who they know is town to look better
- Impaitence (this one I really display)
- A worry about how they come across
- overly defensive when accused
- meta differences (only applicable when you have played with others a lot) e.g. tim always knew when adam was scum, roband called me correctly in enders based on meta

Now of course with these written above scum (esp experienced ones) can avoid most of these.

Others can chime in with what they look for.

There are also two aspects to scum hunting, step 1 is finding tells, step 2 is convincing the others that your right. Step 2 is very frustrating when its an instinct based call.

@Sco, yeah small clues on there own are bad but a lot can be told to reactions. They can also pile up.

Also yeah on forums its a lot more detailed and yes you can think it through. But this can also work the other way and people putting to much thought into how they appear can look scummy. You have to be careful about jumping on players who jump on small things as they can just be trying to generate content.

Hope this all helps.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby sco » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:45 pm UTC

That all sounds pretty good, I'd agree that there's flaws if you use the suggestions I made on their own but they seemed like a good place to start.

also, just curious, if you think madge and Adam both seem scummy, why vote for madge when Adam's the one who voted for you (implying a mafia trying to drive initial suspicion onto a towny for a slightly strange choice of words)? Gut feeling is an ok explanation but I was just wondering if there was reasoning beyond that, given the slightly greater evidence for Adam?

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby wam » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:19 pm UTC

Because I think his vote was more an effort to drive content so he gained townie points for that, whilst madge hasn't done anything townieish.
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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby sco » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:22 pm UTC

sounds good, i guess that makes enough sense for this stage of the game, thanks.

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Re: Matrix6 Newbie: D1 - The game begins

Postby Adam H » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:31 pm UTC

sco wrote:please don't use this sort of alarmist, paranoid semi-logic to accuse me now that i've brought it up, if for no other reason than the fact that if I was scum I wouldn't have pointed it out.
kalira wrote:I'm not scum, just curious/OCD/analytical with no real clue of what to analyze. (And now, I'm sure, come the "She immediately denied scumminess when accused! Clearly scum!" comments.)
You're both scum, aren't you... :P

Some other fun scumtells:
-Talking to your scummate.
-Not talking to your scummate.
-Putting down the third vote on someone (classic :) ).
-Pointing out when you do something scummy.
-Acting weird with your first post after an especially good or especially bad night.
-Being too careful with what you say.

Well wam is definitely town. No scum would bother talking that much. (*opinion subject to change in a matter of minutes)

Unvote (wam)
Vote: Xenomortis


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