Adam Runs Dethy - Game Over: Scum Win

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Adam H
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Adam Runs Dethy - Game Over: Scum Win

Postby Adam H » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:45 pm UTC

Adam’s Standard RulesTM:
Spoiler:
  1. You cannot post in this thread unless you are alive and included in the player list.
  2. You cannot talk about this game outside of this thread, unless in an appropriately titled spoiler in the discussion thread.
  3. You cannot edit your posts or PMs.
  4. You cannot quote private messages from the mod.
  5. You cannot lurk.
  6. You cannot ruin the game for other players.
  7. You cannot say, imply, or pretend that a hammer vote has been cast unless it is obvious from counting the public votes in the thread.
  8. If you break any of these rules, you will lose, be removed from the game, and shame will be heaped on you.

Game Specific Rules:
Spoiler:
  1. You can unvote before changing votes, but you don’t have to. Only your most recent vote will count.
  2. Once a player has received the majority of votes (“hammer”), that player is dead. The day ends immediately and players cannot talk or change votes.
  3. Every player has a single vote and there are no vote-rigging mechanics of any kind.
  4. In the case of a tie, there will be No Lynch.
  5. Votes will reset if there is a modkill. A deadline extension would be given as needed.
  6. The mod will give the players a deadline for the end of each day. Once the deadline has been reached, players may still post and change votes (unless hammer has been reached). However, once the mod announces the end of day, all votes are finalized and players may not post.

Setup is the same as this game

1. There is no cop head-start, the first investigation will be N1.
2. In order to keep the game moving, scum will have daychat. There will only be a brief twilight for actions to be sent in, they are encouraged to do their discussion during the day phase so as to keep the nights short.
3. Sanity is not revealed on death. Cop Analyst is not revealed on death. Death reveal will consist entirely of "Cop" or "Scum"
4. The Cop Analyst will function like a normal cop, but their results will be "Sane" "Insane" "Paranoid" and "Naive". They will get "Sane" on the Sane Cop and Scum.
5. Sane cops will get a "Cop" result on other cops, and a "Scum" result on scum. Insane cops will get their results inverted. Naive will always get "Cop" regardless of target's alignment, and Paranoid will get "Scum" results likewise.
6. The mafia wins when they control the lynch and cannot be stopped from killing everyone else. The cops win when the mafia is eliminated.
7. Cops (including the cop analyst) cannot target dead players or themselves. A cop will receive a valid result even if their target is NKed on the same night.

Setup:
1 Sane Cop
1 Insane Cop
1 Naive Cop
1 Paranoid Cop
1 Cop Analyst
2 Scum

Players:
1. wam/dimochka - Scum
2. Diemo - Cop Analyst - Killed N1
3. bessie - Sane Cop - Lynched D3
4. Djehutynakht - Scum
5. lynx/Madge - Insane Cop - Killed N2
6. Lataro - Naive Cop
7. Suzaku - Paranoid Cop


Sending out role PMs ASAP, day will start after I post all PMs are sent. The PM system is broken, so it might take a while...

All Role PMs have been sent.
Last edited by Adam H on Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:00 pm UTC, edited 7 times in total.
-Adam

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - Pregame

Postby Adam H » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:37 pm UTC

All role PMs have been sent, so we're ready to begin!

D1: Day 1

Adam leans back in his chair, satisfied at having completed the hard work of writing 6 role PMs and then waiting on the semi-broken xkcd forum server to send them all.

"I sure hope the scum will be able to chat with each other! If not, the game would be negatively affected," He thinks to himself.


Hours later, the players are able to look at their role PMs and discover whether they are a Cop, Cop Analyst, or Scum. And then, the posts are written - not just one post per player, but many!

This thread is truly a game of Mafia.


Deadline in 15 days. 7 alive, 4 to hammer.
-Adam

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Suzaku » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:25 am UTC

Confirming and egoposting.

I'll have something meaningful later today.
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Diemo » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:43 am UTC

Egopost. Id forgotten about this game (and it's like 2am) so more tomorrow

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby bessie » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:18 am UTC

Confirming.

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Djehutynakht » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:02 am UTC

Confirming.

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Lataro » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:09 am UTC

Right, so Day One, we no lynch. This is an absolute given. No ifs ands or buts about it.

We need to perform cop stuff tonight, and we need to have a system of who checks who in place so that we can get meaningful results.

1. wam
2. Diemo
3. bessie
4. Djehutynakht
5. lynx
6. Lataro
7. Suzaku

We have the player list, it is impartial and simple. Everyone should cop the person below them Night One.

We'll get results and a NK. We should then claim truthfully Day Two what our results are. We can play make the logic table and see who can be what type of cop/scum/ect based on their results.

Unless we have a cop analyst result of insane with that person getting a cop result on their target, we NL again. Unless by pure logic alone and only be pure logic we know someone else is scum, we NL. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

We then remove the dead person from the above list, and check someone systematically again, decided D2 based on the info we have.

We then are at LYLO. We go over the logic, and more likely than not, we have confirmed town and confirmed scum from the truthful reporting of results. We lynch based on that, and go into N3 with whatever approach works best at that time.

If not immediately logically deducible, we flip a coin and win or lose. If deducible, we win.

This is how Dethy is played.

We on the same page people?
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Suzaku » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:33 pm UTC

Lataro wrote:Right, so Day One, we no lynch. This is an absolute given. No ifs ands or buts about it.
I can agree with that.

We need to perform cop stuff tonight, and we need to have a system of who checks who in place so that we can get meaningful results.

1. wam
2. Diemo
3. bessie
4. Djehutynakht
5. lynx
6. Lataro
7. Suzaku

We have the player list, it is impartial and simple. Everyone should cop the person below them Night One.
This seems reasonable.
The alternative is for everyone to target one person, agreed in advance, which is what happened last game. Hopefully I'll have some time to go through both options in detail (or, better yet, someone else will :) ), but I suspect on the face of it that it's a wash. Bear in mind that two people will be making up results.

We'll get results and a NK. We should then claim truthfully Day Two what our results are. We can play make the logic table and see who can be what type of cop/scum/ect based on their results.
I assume this means that the CA is to claim xyr CA result truthfully as well. This, I might need some convincing of.

Unless we have a cop analyst result of insane with that person getting a cop result on their target, we NL again. Unless by pure logic alone and only be pure logic we know someone else is scum, we NL. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Agree that NL is most likely to be the best option again D2.

We then remove the dead person from the above list, and check someone systematically again, decided D2 based on the info we have.

We then are at LYLO. We go over the logic, and more likely than not, we have confirmed town and confirmed scum from the truthful reporting of results. We lynch based on that, and go into N3 with whatever approach works best at that time.

If not immediately logically deducible, we flip a coin and win or lose. If deducible, we win.

This is how Dethy is played.

We on the same page people?
Pretty much, yes.

Things that need discussion, I think, are:
  • Should the CA claim D2 regardless of xyr result, as in Lataro's plan, or should xe sit on it if it is inconclusive?
  • Is there a benefit to some other system of determining who checks who compared to 'person below you on the player list'?
  • Is there anything (including in the above two points) that would make this strategy flawed, indicating that Lataro is likely scum trying to lead down straight down the garden path?

That last point is important, because Lataro is very good at leading town, even (or maybe especially) when he's scum. He's a great town strategist, but his strategy still needs to be checked, not swallowed whole.
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Diemo » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:43 pm UTC

Lataro wrote:Right, so Day One, we no lynch. This is an absolute given. No ifs ands or buts about it.


Sure, IF you want to use SENSE and LOGIC about it, But what if you dont?!!!!! Also, but, hehe.



Ok, Lataro makes some good points.

Now, there is a possibility that Lataro is scum, but his idea of using the player list is a good one. I'm going to suggest that everyone cop the person above them instead of the person below them. But we need a consensus! The only reason not to use the player below is because Lataro might be scum, and this is pretty unlikely (not only would Lataro have to be scum but so would Suzaku for it to matter at all)

I personally think that the CA should sit out unless he has a def result on someone as either sane/insane. It could be helpful to cut out the paranoid cop and stuff though so CA claiming could be a good idea but think that it will be too little gain for too much loss. How about we dop a IIWAC for the CA? That way we have all the benifits without the downsides?

Bear in mind that two people will be making up results.


3 people, as the CA will be making up results as well
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Lataro » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:20 pm UTC

CA flips as a cop, not as a CA. Them lying about their results (making up a non-truthful result) will destroy any attempt to use logic to find scum in their lies. Thus, they should be completely truthful. The other benefit is if we get two confirmed town Day 2, we'll have at least one confirmed town D3 to help lead us.

Dethy is all about catching scum in their lies.

As for the person above instead of below, I don't give a damn. As long as we all follow the same pattern, it could be the person four slots below you for all I care. The point is we need to be on the same page so we have a result on everyone.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Lataro » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:04 pm UTC

Right so... can't play by myself here...
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby wam » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:09 pm UTC

I'm back, I agree with lataro. No Lynch today, claim all results tomorrow.

The only suggestion I might make is that we all target the same person as that may give us more information. Thoughts? I haven't run the numbers myself.

More later.
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Suzaku » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:06 am UTC

Unsurprisingly slow here.

Two things I think need to be discussed, analysed and decided:

1. Do we each target a different person (above, below, whatever) or all target one person?
All targeting one player should make it easier to identify the cops' sanities, I think, but means we have fewer potentially useful results when we'll need them on D2/3. I suspect it's a wash, but I would like to hear others' opinions on that.

2. Is it really advantageous for the CA to claim unconditionally on D2?
I get that we don't want fake results muddying the waters, but I think that there's a big risk forcing the CA to claim. I can post what I think the risk is, but I'd prefer not to give scum any ideas they may not already have. I will try to expand on this point later, if I can do so without drenching the whole thing in wine,
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Lataro » Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:18 am UTC

1. Different targets. We'll be able to figure most of the sanities out D2, and we'll have tons of useful results. Targeting the same person is no where near a wash. If you target scum/scum(unlikely) or cop/cop(very likely) you've got nothing at all to really go on. I'm not going to give scum ideas here, but if you think about it just a little, they have a HUGE advantage with all targeting the same person.

2. Absolutely under no possible condition should the CA lie. Dethy is a game of logic. If the CA lies, then we have the problem of working sanities out down the road, and we mind as well as go lynching blindly.

I'm not sure how much you thought about those ideas before posting, but they give advantages to scum, so... :roll:
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Suzaku » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:54 pm UTC

Yes, I know where you stand on those issues, Lataro.

I want to hear what others think, so that (a) I can see arguments made from both sides, and (b) ensure that we don't just blindly follow scum!Lataro down the proverbial garden path.
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby bessie » Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:19 pm UTC

Hi everyone, newbie player here, this is my second game.

I agree with no lynch for day one. I don't yet have an opinion on whether we should all target the same person or different people, and I am reading through some old games. I would like to hear from wam and lynx; they both played Lataro's dethy game. Should we do any scum hunting? More later when I have read through everything.

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Diemo » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:01 pm UTC

Ok, so a post I made disappeared.

Upshot is I agree with Lataro.

Think we should target person under us.

Phone post
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Lataro » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:22 am UTC

Chirp...
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:24 am UTC

Well if Day 1 is going to be a No Lynch I'm guessing our objective here is to run out the clock. Unless of course we want to vote No-Lynch and just settle the issue now.

So... yeah. Chirp.

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby lynx » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:47 am UTC

Wow, it's been a while. This time of year is too much fun. Sorry Lataro, thanks for trying to drive discussion.

Vote: No Lynch

Everyone target the person below you on the list. Suzaku, target wam.

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby bessie » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:57 am UTC

Djehutynakht, I do not think we want to run out the clock yet. Most of us have agreed with no lynch, but we have not agreed on a strategy for investigations. What is your opinion? Do you think we should all investigate the same target, or should we investigate different targets using the player list, or should everyone just pick someone to investigate at random?

I agree with Lataro for N1, and we should all investigate a different target. I don't care what method we use to select the target but we need to agree on this before the deadline. And I think the CA should claim, even though they will probably be killed N2. At least we will have one CA result, if we're lucky it will be insane.

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Lataro » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:43 am UTC

umm... not that 15 days should have far and away been more than enough time, but... extension?

C'mon people!
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Adam H » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:45 pm UTC

Deadline extension granted: new deadline is exactly 6 days from now.

To keep the game moving, there will be no N1 (or "twilight"). You must have your N1 action submitted by the end of D1 deadline. D2 will begin immediately after the deadline.

If you don't submit a N1 action, you'll target a random player.
-Adam

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Diemo » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:53 pm UTC

Christmas is coming, the geese are getting fat, please put a penny. . .

Wait, I think I got confused there.

I'm pretty sure that there is not so much more to discuss. Everyone targets the person below them for the night.

Vote: No lynch
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Lataro » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:24 pm UTC

Guys, get something submitted ASAP, and post when it's in.

Go with one below, since others have, and we need to be uniform in this, else the whole idea is cocked.

don't vote NL. Post here when your action is submitted.

Really, if we aren't all on the same page and getting this done properly, we mind as well as not be playing a dethy and with the piss poor activity here, playing it as vanilla mind as well as random.org lynch.

Mine is in.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby bessie » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:56 am UTC

Nothing really to discuss. Lataro, lynx, Diemo, and I all agreed to no lynch and investigate the person below, so this is what we should do today. Suzaku and wam have suggested targeting the same person but I think that at least for tonight it will be good if we get a result on everyone (well, we will be one short). Djehutynakht has not offered an opinion on anything. Everyone target the person below, and please don't let the clock run out!

I have submitted my action.

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Suzaku » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:12 am UTC

My action is in, targeting wam as the person 'below' me in the list.
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Diemo » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:44 am UTC

My action is in
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Adam H » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:51 pm UTC

wam has been replaced by dimochka.

lynx has been replaced by Madge.

Everyone targeting the replaced players will have their actions automatically adjusted to the replacing player, because I am not an evil asshole. No need to resend any actions. ;)

I can extend deadline iff a majority of players explicitly asks for it (or if another player needs a replacement, etc).
-Adam

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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Diemo » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:59 pm UTC

Madge, dimochka, I'd like you both to confirm that you are you know who to target.

Action submitted.
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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Madge » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:00 am UTC

I am targeting Lataro. Is that right?

Anyway I've submitted my action but trust Adam will let me change it if I screwed up.
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Madge » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:01 am UTC

EBWOP can you please adjust the first post so we can see our new names up in there? Will make it easier for people to know who to target and whatnot
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Diemo » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:02 am UTC

Yup
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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby dimochka » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:25 am UTC

Phone post. As I mentioned to adam in my pm, I will only be available at noon EST tomorrow. I will read the thread then and submit per the strategy agreed upon.
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Suzaku » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:55 am UTC

For the record, I'm still not 100% convinced about the CA claiming on D2, but I admit that Lataro's argument is a strong one and it seems like enough others agree that there's not a great deal of point trying to argue the point.

To throw more sand in the gears, do we want to fix the order in which people claim before the end of the day?
If I'm not mistaken, we would want scummy people to claim earlier than townie ones, so they can't base their false claims on town-provided info.
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Madge » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:00 am UTC

I think Suzaku makes a good point with setting the claiming order - at the VERY LEAST we should set it as something fixed (e.g. the player list order), it would be better than nothing.

As a new player, I would be happy to use an order proposed by Lataro (who I feel may well be the smartest of us) with the proviso that Lataro be the first to claim if we use his claiming order (so if he's scum he's got nowhere to hide).
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Madge » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:02 am UTC

EBWOP: possible alternate if we decide the CA should claim, - tomorrow CA claims first, if no CC, then CA sets order so we have guaranteed non-scum intervention there. Complication is if scum claims CA we don't have a confirmed town to set the order. That said, I think this would not be a problem for us, don't want to say why so as not to advise scum. (but it's obvious if you think about it)
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Lataro
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Lataro » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:20 am UTC

TBH order never mattered much, and in reality, if scum is halfway decent and puts thought in to their play, it doesn't matter.

For the sake of a decent game, and since I feel it is extremely obvious scum strat and thus saying it won't hurt us since it makes things perfectly clear...

Scum are going to pick one cop sanity type, and stick with it. If they don't then they are just plain terribad at the idea of how this game works. Order doesn't matter much, since they should be sticking to a preset sanity for the most part.

The caveat would be that the CA would ideally claim last. This can help catch scum lying, but I won't go in to those details.

For the most part, soon as you got a result, you should claim it. CA should make an effort to claim towards the end, but don't let the game die of inactivity waiting for one last person to claim.

For my part, if I see someone online, and they aren't posting their result, and don't claim CA later, I'd strongly consider them a prime scum candidate if it came down to a coin toss lynch due to 50/50 odds.
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Djehutynakht
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:06 pm UTC

Reporting. Considering. Still kinda off.

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dimochka
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Re: Adam Runs Dethy - D1: Day 1

Postby dimochka » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:13 pm UTC

I just re-read. This is my first dethy and i don't see any ideas that are better than lataro's, nor can i think of any. So my action is in.
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