Hangafia - Game over - Perfect Town win.

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Minestrone
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Minestrone » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:01 am UTC

I don't like the way Van is talking about mass claiming on the assumption that roles will keep changing without recognizing that a) the room has stopped spinning and b) there's no way the roles can just keep changing if this game is going to work at all. I do agree with Madge/Conman that former scum claiming their roles is helpful. A lot of former scum have claimed already. I guess the way this set up works is that we now potentially have a lot of information about the roles involved but at the cost of any previous behavioral/voting tells. Other than Van's suggestion (and more scummily, their continuing to push it for a couple posts instead of dropping it) I haven't noticed anything standing out as scummy in today's discussion.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:07 am UTC

@ElectricHaze: The problem people have is with the double layer of bastardry, not with the complexity or closedness. We have been lied to (all games where win conditions change are bastard, because one plays with some expectations and gets others - i.e. it may turn out you just decreased incredibly your chances of winning because of your ignorance of what was going to happen. New versions of Vox's rules include specifically "you must play to win" for this reason, because you're not supposed to get a mafia role and out your buddies first day to lose, you're supposed to pretend you're town and help your buddies win, which is impossible when you lynch the guy that was supposed to be your scumbuddy after the role switch, which might have happened with Nebu's buddies. Also, I think this parenthesis has gone on for way too long and hope it ends soon. Here it comes), and it was hidden that we could be lied to (there's nothing wrong with bastard games when they're advertized as such, but it's not that complexity gets so high bastardry is inevitable, there can be open bastard, closed bastard, simple bastard and complex bastard games, and there are players, like Sungura, that wouldn't have joined if they knew the game was going to be bastard.)

So I'm pretty sure nobody would be complaining if the game was advertized as bastard, or said something similar to video game trailers "Not actual gameplay win conditions". But then the whole role switching isn't a surprise, which was the whole point, and without precedent.

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ElectricHaze
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby ElectricHaze » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:52 am UTC

I disagree. Unless the mod is taking an active hand to change the outcome of the game it doesn't qualify as bastard to me. If he was changing roles out of hand to mess up the game and favor one faction over another then I would have a problem. Otherwise it is simply a closed mechanic that created a lot of discussion on day1 for town and a lot of confusion to balance it. I realize I seem to be in the minority here, but I think it is just silly to bash this game over it instead of looking at all this good information we have. Not to mention entirely unfair to the person who set it up.

This setup doesn't seem out of line with what I experianced in asylumafia and everyone was warned before hand that the game would have similar levels and types of weird mechanics so I don't see where the complaints come in after experiencing the craziness of that game...
Who has never killed an hour? Not casually or without thought, but carefully: a premeditated murder of minutes.

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Dr Ug
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Dr Ug » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:38 am UTC

All of a sudden, mid complaint of whiney sadness that the world was too complicated, and that wah wah wah, etc, a lightning bolt suddenly struck (which is weird seeing as it's indoors) and MasterOfAll dropped dead mid sook.

MasterOfAll has been Modkilled

MasterOfAll was Black Doug, roleblocker, member of Marshall's Mob (mafia, scum)
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:22 am UTC

Heh, I'm not surprised if it turns out MoA quit because he used to have a nice role and was forced to join Marshall's Mob midnight after Nebu dropped dead.

I therefore invite other members of Marshall's gang to drop from the game and be modkilled. Hey, it's worth a try!

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby VectorZero » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:50 am UTC

vote: van

Advocating anti town strategies (pushing for mass claims), posting faulty supposition to mislead town ("if the room is still spinning") and claimed mason with a confirmed scum.

Assuming the protagonists to be town, we already have at least one role confirmed to be hunting town role names. Dr ugh builds in anti claim tech. Role name claims are bad.

We have three dead players without past role claims. There's still room for false claims to hide in.
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby VectorZero » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:21 am UTC

EBWOP: Dr Ug, not ugh. Thanks, autocorrect.
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:45 am UTC

Votals:

SPACKlick - 2 (Vytron, ConMan)
Van - 2 (RoadieRich, VectorZero)

Unless activity picks up soon, I will set a deadline for Day 2
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:47 am UTC

Deadlines are good, sometimes activity only happens after deadlines...

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weiyaoli
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:10 am UTC

I don't really have too much to add to the discussion yet - I was hoping some of the other lurkers would have something to post.

wrt SPACKlick and Van, I found the mass-claim suggestion more scummy of the two since I'm fairly sure that randomly claiming the cop hoping for the roles to swap again to protect him (without really any information from the mod to suggest this might happen) is a bit fishy. I don't really understand why people are voting for SPACKlick, given that in the end he did still have his "mason" chat with infina and Dr Ug has now cleared up once and for all whether the role swapping was a mistake.

@ConMan and Vytron:
Can you explain again why you are voting for SPACKlick?
And you thought I was crazy...

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:02 pm UTC

I don't remember. This is a honest answer because it was so long ago I'd need to check what I said. But anybody else can do the same so it's not the answer you're looking for.

Unvote

I do agree Van doesn't seem to be town. However, I believe they're independent, we'd better hunt for scum...

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Van » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:02 pm UTC

Please feel free to sanity check this table against your memories, trying to put this together was pesky.

Code: Select all

00 Player.........    Initial Role............................................    after swap 1............................................    after swap 2/N1...............
01 Nebuduck.......    Black Doug/Marshall's Mafia.............................    Lyncher, same power,Died:Marshall/Godfather.............    ..............................
02 Aardvarki......    ........................................................    ........................................................    ..............................
03 ThinkSweet.....    ........................................................    SK......................................................    Role changed..................
04 Frogman........    ........................................................    Flavor cop..............................................    Role changed..................
05 _infina_.......    ........................................................    Officer.................................................    Role changed..................
06 Jar'O'Jam......    ........................................................    ........................................................    ..............................
07 weiyaoli.......    Wedding singer..........................................    .......................................................    Role changed..................
08 cycoden........    Marshall's Mafia - claimed by Nebuduck.................    ........................................................    ..............................
09 Minestrone.....    ........................................................    ........................................................    ..............................
10 Carlington.....    Marshall (Scum - claimed by Nebuduck)...................    Died: Mike Tyson's tiger/town vig.......................    ..............................
11 Van............    Fat Tazer Kid...........................................    ........................................................    Role changed..................
12 quintopia......    ........................................................    Died: Fat Tazer Kid, town roleblocker/lyncher...........    ..............................
13 madge..........    breadcrumbed RoleblockerSilent Monk, Scum..............    .......................................................    Role changed..................
14 maj/SDK........    ........................................................    ........................................................    ..............................
15 Freezeblade....    The Smoking MonkeyKingsley's Gang w Vytron&madge.......    Role changed at some point..............................    ..............................
16 Azrael001......    ........................................................    ........................................................    ..............................
17 moody7277......    ........................................................    ........................................................    Role changed..................
18 sungura/Murrin.    ........................................................    ........................................................    ..............................
19 kalira.........    ........................................................    ........................................................    ..............................
20 ElectricHaze...    Marshall's Mafia - claimed by Nebuduck..................    ........................................................    ..............................
21 RoadieRich.....    1/day Daychat...........................................    ........................................................    ..............................
22 ConMan.........    Phil....................................................    ........................................................    ..............................
23 VectorZero.....    ........................................................    ........................................................    ..............................
24 MasterOfAll....    ........................................................    ........................................................    Died: Black Doug, rb/Marshall.
25 SPACKlick......    mason Cop, lynch-related secondary.....................    New role had flavor names,power;still mason, not Cop..    ..............................
26 mega/Vytron....    Kingsley................................................    Chat with VZ............................................    Gained nightchat..............


Thoughts and analysis to follow in next post in about 2 hours. Brief thoughts:
mysql rpad > phpbb's lack of tables. sort of.
frequent lying makes this difficult. I tried to remove lies where people admitted they had lied (looking at you Vytron/Nebuduck)
people who claim no role changes are suspicious (Minestrone)
much anger at people who are parroting "the spinning is over!" when like 1/3rd of the game's roles changed after the spinning allegedly stopped
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Van » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:03 pm UTC

That is not what it looked like in the preview at all. Why, phpbb. Is it kosher to make a post elsewhere (maybe discussion?) and edit that repeatedly until I get the formatting sane?
Oregonaut wrote:You are a fucking idiot. (Insult.)
You say that you disapprove of sex before marriage, but you are fucking that idiot. (Ad hominem.)
You say that you disapprove of sex outside of marriage, but you are fucking your mom. (Ad mominem.)

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:34 pm UTC

I have a theory regarding why my role only changed at the start of N1. I think it's a fairly obvious conclusion, but since we didn't really get too many claims it's difficult to see if it's true.
And you thought I was crazy...

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Van » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:38 pm UTC

Alright. Let's do round two. First, a revised table, hopefully this works better (sorry I didn't spoiler the first one!):
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

                                               Initial Role                            after swap 1               after swap 2/N1
Nebuduck                        Black Doug/Marshall's Mafia  Lyncher, same power,Died:Marshall/Godf                             
Aardvarki                                                                                                                       
Thinksweet                                                                                       SK                  Role changed
Frogman                                                                                  Flavor cop                  Role changed
_infina_                                                                                    Officer                  Role changed
Jar'O'Jam                                                                                                                       
weiyaoli                                     Wedding Singer                                                          Role changed
cycoden                      Marshall's Mafia - by Nebuduck                                                                     
Minestrone                                                                                                                       
Carlington                    Marshall (Scum - by Nebuduck)       Died: Mike Tyson's tiger/town vig                             
Van                                           Fat Tazer Kid                                                          Role changed
quintopia                                                      Died: Fat Tazer Kid, town rb/lyncher                             
madge                     breadcrumbed RB Silent Monk, Scum                                                          Role changed
maj/SDK                                                                                                                         
Freezeblade    Smoking MonkeyKingsley's Gang w Vytron&madge              Role changed at some point                             
Azrael001                                                                                                                       
moody7277                                                                                                            Role changed
sungura/Murrin                                                                                                                   
kalira                                                                                                                           
ElectricHaze                 Marshall's Mafia - by Nebuduck                                                                     
RoadieRich                                    1/day Daychat                                                                     
ConMan                                                 Phil                                                                     
VectorZero                                                                                                                       
MasterOfAll                                                                                         Died: Black Doug, rb/Marshall
SPACKlick                mason Cop, lynch-related wincon      given rolenames, power, still mason                                         
mega/Vytron                                        Kingsley                            Chat with VZ              Gained nightchat
I'd like to apologize in advance if this post seems grumpy - that is on me, not on Dr Ug, or any of my fellow players. With that said, I have several major thoughts here.

1. At this point, people who have not yet claimed any sort of role change are extremely suspicious to me. I do not believe that anyone should still be untouched at this point. People who have not claimed any sort of change are:
Aardvarki, Jar'o'Jam, Minestrone, SDK, Murrin, VectorZero
Unrelated to claiming role names, would you few please confirm or deny that your roles are the same as given at the start of D1?

2. Role thoughts, assuming no roles have been removed from the game:
We're facing 2 scum groups, led by Kingsley and Marshall. Marshall's group is actually rather weak: they've lost 2 people already.
A "semi-SK" Chow
An amazingly high number of role blockers (at least 3 so far). I'm pretty sure no one is vanilla town :P

If we can trust the D1 start mafia count (4, 3?), we should have 5 mafia (2, 3) and a "semi-SK" at the least. If there are more scum roles, I am willing to bet they are independents.

3. "The spinning is over". Yes, the room stopped spinning almost a month ago. At the end of N1, which was maybe 3 or 4 days ago, at least 8/26 people had their roles change. I can't speak for the rest of the changees, but my PM specifically mentioned the room spinning. In the title. Unless you believe that more than 1/3rd of the players in the game are complicit in the same lie, it's pretty obvious the room spinning is not over, despite what Dr Ug said. Since Dr Ug specifically said this is not BM, I'm not sure how to interpret this contradiction.
a) perhaps some people are recovering from the hangover faster than others
b) player/s in control of role swapping
c) role swaps were started by the spinning, and will continue until the end of game (when we "piece together" everything that happened during our blackout? That seems to parallel the plot of the wikipedia summary?)

4. "Suggesting a mass claim is scummy." If you've said this, you're omitting a very important group of words: suggesting a mass claim in a normal game is scummy. This game may not be BM, but it's absolutely not a normal game in any sense. Claiming otherwise is absolutely going for low-hanging-bandwagon-fruit.

A large part of my irritation in this game revolves around my inability to predict what is going to happen. Typically, if someone makes a claim (RR, D1) they can follow through on it and prove or disprove its accuracy. Typically, if someone claims to have been scum on D1 (Vytron, madge, etc..), it is safe to lynch them. Typically, players are not so confused that we spend a week riling ourselves up against the mod before the mod has to step in and say "No, really, it's supposed to be like this." Typically, at the start of D2, we have at least some idea of who is scum and who isn't, and if not, we can re-read D1 and look for subtle links.

None of those things are true in this game. Why are you still holding yourselves to the well-trodden rules of normal mafia when you aren't playing normal mafia?

5. A mass claim is probably not a good idea. I'm willing to agree with this for today on the basis of lack of information (e.g. can we trust that they will continue?), but if role swaps happen later in the day (or in N2), I am going to push a mass claim so hard on D3.

Having said that, I think the trend (so far) of claiming previously owned scum role names and powers is an extremely good thing. If anyone else has previously anti-town roles, let's hear the details!

Minestrone wrote:I don't like the way Van is talking about mass claiming on the assumption that roles will keep changing without recognizing that a) the room has stopped spinning and b) there's no way the roles can just keep changing if this game is going to work at all. I do agree with Madge/Conman that former scum claiming their roles is helpful. A lot of former scum have claimed already. I guess the way this set up works is that we now potentially have a lot of information about the roles involved but at the cost of any previous behavioral/voting tells. Other than Van's suggestion (and more scummily, their continuing to push it for a couple posts instead of dropping it) I haven't noticed anything standing out as scummy in today's discussion.

My emphasis. Arguing in favor of something you believe in is hardly scummy, but more importantly, that's not even an accurate representation of what I've said. See this post where I literally said "not only are you right about it not being a good idea, but you're more right than you thought you were."

This is 100% a "me-too" bandwagon post. So, between this, point #3 above, and you never mentioning a role swap:
Vote: Minestrone

Finally, with Dr Ug's threat of a deadline, I don't want to risk losing our advantage here. I'm pretty sure RR can back me up on this, so..
I'm baby Carlos. I have a 1/day communicator ability, which I'm guessing means this used to be RR's role, and he can vouch for it being a town role.
Yes, I'm a lyncher for Alan (still, from Fat Tazer Kid), but I have to land the first vote on him and keep it there until he's lynched. As far as I'm concerned, that's so impossible that I'm willing to ignore it.
Rather ironically after D1, I tried to target Vytron after day start, and in the words of ConMan, my pm "didn't even get the dignity of a response." I don't know if my previous owner used it for this day/night cycle, or if I'm roleblocked, or perhaps it just is a lie and my power does absolutely nothing.
Oregonaut wrote:You are a fucking idiot. (Insult.)
You say that you disapprove of sex before marriage, but you are fucking that idiot. (Ad hominem.)
You say that you disapprove of sex outside of marriage, but you are fucking your mom. (Ad mominem.)

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:50 pm UTC

@Van:

Not trying to answer for Minestrone but:

Minestrone wrote:I don't really know what to do in this game anymore so I might as well do this. I think the more information we have public the better chance we have of town understanding this game well enough to play well. I was an SK yesterday but my role changed as night fell. I am town now, and I've lost my old kill but I still have "be the last one alive" as a secondary win condition, although I'm not sure how I'd go about achieving that now even if winning with town wasn't my primary concern.


In addition, the different timings I was trying to hint at, but my hypothesis was that people who had day actions, like I did yesterday role-swapped during N1, and people who only had night-actions swapped during D1. Can anyone provide a counterexample? (don't need a full claim, just do say if you did not fit this rule) My new role PM did reference the room spinning, but it said something to the effect of "as the room stopped spinning", so I'm not sure how much to read into that.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby _infina_ » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:03 pm UTC

Van wrote:infina, you said your result came back "different", do you believe that the new owner of your role has the cop-info you expected to get?

No, the result I got was a "Not <role I am looking for>". Same person that I targeted, but it appears that the role change occurred before my action took place.

I think there is a good chance that our win alignments didn't change, just some slightly different conditions on the win, based on the way my role change was worded and a gut feeling. So, because of this, I am going to test it on claimed "former scum".

Vote Madge
Spoiler:
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby VectorZero » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:28 pm UTC

My current role is not my original role.

van wrote:semi-sk chow
What does this mean and how do you know this?
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:35 am UTC

VectorZero wrote:What does this mean and how do you know this?
Because I posted it just the other day. Specifically, Chow wants Phil, Stu, Alan, and Doug dead, and is willing to kill people to make that happen.

The Bandwagon on Van seems odd, but I'll need to go over it again to make any real decisions about voting. I've only been able to pay attention to the game in tiny snips of time between doing other things, which makes dealing with a bunch of people I've never seen before, and trying to wrap my head around everything rather trying. One magical day in the hopefully near future, I'm going to do a reread, and see what I can come up with.
23111

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:56 am UTC

Van voting Minestrone? Ha, I agree with Minestrone and hadn't seen anything scummy about him.

Vote Van

What good does a player that has admitted to be a lyncher does to us? At least we know we're not lynching town. Van doesn't actually case if we lynch scum or town, he only cares about lynching Alan.

Unvote
Vote Van


(for emphasis)

Van wrote:Yes, I'm a lyncher for Alan (still, from Fat Tazer Kid), but I have to land the first vote on him and keep it there until he's lynched. As far as I'm concerned, that's so impossible that I'm willing to ignore it.


Interestingly, I know who Alan is. I wonder if this is a game where we're supposed to trade information or something (I want X so badly, and Van has/can do X, so we agree that if he X then I tell him who is Alan.) I don't even have a reason to hide who Alan is, given that my win condition is to win with town, so the only reason would be... ethics? (I was trusted with this info, so by outing it I'd be betraying that trust.)

_infina_ wrote:I think there is a good chance that our win alignments didn't change, just some slightly different conditions on the win, based on the way my role change was worded and a gut feeling. So, because of this, I am going to test it on claimed "former scum".

Vote Madge


Why Madge and not me? I know what's her new role, and I know it's a rule useful to town, so it's a mistake to lynch her.

On the other hand, if role changes are still a thing then I'd better die now to win win town, flip town and then everyone knows I've been truthful about everything, which should help town win.

Then again, with so many scum factions it's possible lynching randomly would hit scum. It's possible town has the minority right now, but to get rid of town all scum players would need to claim scum.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:01 am UTC

Vytron wrote: I don't even have a reason to hide who Alan is, given that my win condition is to win with town, so the only reason would be... ethics?


Oh, well, du'h. If I know who's Alan they probably know who am I, so the reason to keep it secret is so they don't reveal who am I :P

It'd go as follows:

-I reveal who is Alan
-Alan reveals who am I
-Our killers use their kills on us, proving it a stupid idea.

In the interest of this I'm going to claim:

Maybe I am Alan

Yeah, why not? The only reason I know who is Alan is because I am Alan, and it's the only person I know who is it. But maybe I'm not Alan and this is a trick. Remember that if I was Alan:

-I reveal I am Alan
-My killer use their kill on me, proving it a stupid idea.

So there's no way to know.

In other news, I just got private chat with Van. So I'm now in 3 different private chat groups. Darn.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby VectorZero » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:42 am UTC

Azrael001 wrote:
VectorZero wrote:What does this mean and how do you know this?
Because I posted it just the other day. Specifically, Chow wants Phil, Stu, Alan, and Doug dead, and is willing to kill people to make that happen.

Sorry, I must've missed that.

Did you submit a kill for N1, or had your role already changed? Is it a daily kill?

Given that Van has now claimed a town role which is open to two counter claims, pending anything further I shall

unvote

Although I still disagree with Van's tactics.
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:46 am UTC

My role had already changed before night fell. I did not submit a kill.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:47 am UTC

EBWOP: Also, it is a one a night kill. So I guess you could call it a daily kill, but that wouldn't be quite accurate.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:31 am UTC

VectorZero wrote:Given that Van has now claimed a town role


When did this happen?

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby VectorZero » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:56 am UTC

Van wrote:I'm baby Carlos. I have a 1/day communicator ability, which I'm guessing means this used to be RR's role, and he can vouch for it being a town role.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby RoadieRich » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:28 pm UTC

Van wrote:Finally, with Dr Ug's threat of a deadline, I don't want to risk losing our advantage here. I'm pretty sure RR can back me up on this, so..
I'm baby Carlos. I have a 1/day communicator ability, which I'm guessing means this used to be RR's role, and he can vouch for it being a town role.
Yes, I'm a lyncher for Alan (still, from Fat Tazer Kid), but I have to land the first vote on him and keep it there until he's lynched. As far as I'm concerned, that's so impossible that I'm willing to ignore it.
Rather ironically after D1, I tried to target Vytron after day start, and in the words of ConMan, my pm "didn't even get the dignity of a response." I don't know if my previous owner used it for this day/night cycle, or if I'm roleblocked, or perhaps it just is a lie and my power does absolutely nothing.


I can confirm that was my day one role.

I did try to target Van D1, but was told my ability failed. Not sure why Van's attempt to use the ability failed, unless there's a two day duration roleblock, maybe? Or Dr Ug is still a little over worked.

You're certainly correct that this isn't a normal game; the question is, just how abnormal is it?

Unvote

My role also changed as night fell, although the message specifically stated (although in flavour rather than WordOfMod™) that it happening as the room stopped spinning.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:33 pm UTC

VectorZero wrote:
Van wrote:I'm baby Carlos. I have a 1/day communicator ability, which I'm guessing means this used to be RR's role, and he can vouch for it being a town role.


Van can't be both a lyncher and town. I think he meant to say it was a protown ability, or at least, one that wouldn't hurt town.

I can confirn that it is true that this is his ability, but I still think he's a lyncher.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:39 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:
VectorZero wrote:
Van wrote:I'm baby Carlos. I have a 1/day communicator ability, which I'm guessing means this used to be RR's role, and he can vouch for it being a town role.


Van can't be both a lyncher and town. I think he meant to say it was a protown ability, or at least, one that wouldn't hurt town.

I can confirn that it is true that this is his ability, but I still think he's a lyncher.


12 quintopia - Night kill night 1 - Fat Taser kid, roleblocker, lyncher for Alan, town


Fairly sure people can be both a lyncher and town. I guess they can just get a bonus win for fulfilling their lyncher objective. Also I'm pretty sure Van's old role was a lyncher (i.e. the above role) and his new role is whatever he just claimed, so even if being a lyncher and town were mutually exclusive, it doesn't mean his new role cannot be town.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Vytron » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:55 pm UTC

Um, okay.

Unvote
Vote: _Infina_


They voted Madge for no other reason than to test. That's not a good reason for voting someone, so I'd rather lynch inf than Van.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Van » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:51 pm UTC

Regarding recent posts: it's she :P and Dr Ug had forgotten to reply to my PM, so Vytron and I are able to chat now.
weiyaoli wrote:In addition, the different timings I was trying to hint at, but my hypothesis was that people who had day actions, like I did yesterday role-swapped during N1, and people who only had night-actions swapped during D1. Can anyone provide a counterexample? (don't need a full claim, just do say if you did not fit this rule) My new role PM did reference the room spinning, but it said something to the effect of "as the room stopped spinning", so I'm not sure how much to read into that.

I can counterexample: Fat Tazer Kid's roleblock was night only, and I was swapped on N1.

Thank you for spotting Minestrone's claim, by the way. I'll post an updated table later today. Speaking of which, Minestrone, would you name your previous SK role?

Since there seems to be swirling confusion, I'd like to sort this out:
My first role, Fat Tazer Kid, was town with a secondary win condition of being the first vote on Alan (e.g. lynch leader)
My second role, Carlos, inherited the secondary win condition.

Stop assuming having a secondary win condition indicates non-towniness - the game is too complex for it to be that easy. I was in a ridiculously lucky spot because two people were able to confirm my claim, but future people probably won't be so lucky.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby SDK » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:02 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:Well, this just fits assuming an SK holding fire (*looks for SDK*)

Image

So... why aren't we doing a mass-previous-role claim? If we can identify all the roles in the game, we can narrow down the scum team every day just by doing another mass claim. Once we get all the roles nailed, I think it would be to our benefit to claim our actual roles. Assuming they keep changing, of course.

Okay, I should have kept reading. Apparently this is happening. I was Sid, a Commuter on every odd night.

_infina_ wrote:I think there is a good chance that our win alignments didn't change, just some slightly different conditions on the win, based on the way my role change was worded and a gut feeling. So, because of this, I am going to test it on claimed "former scum".

I doubt this very much. My alignment didn't change, I'm still town, but I gained an additional win condition as part of my new role. More importantly, the scum team claimed changing Day 1. They wouldn't do that unless their alignments changed.

Aaaand... I'm going to follow Vytron, 'cause why not?

Vote _infina_

pedit: Van, you kept your secondary condition? Does that imply that it's attached to you rather than to your role? That's odd considering I gained a secondary condition attached to my new role.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Van » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:17 pm UTC

Well, my original flavor talked about Alan, though in the context of tasing (tasing him the first time was fun, do it again), which I assumed was why I wanted to lynch him.

100% baseless hypothesis: if your new role doesn't have a secondary win condition, your original comes along. SDK and RR, did your original roles have secondary win conditions? If not, that's a possible explanation. If RR's role had one, then we'll know that my secondary overwrote his old one, which I guess means it is attached to me.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby RoadieRich » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:23 pm UTC

I didn't start with a secondary condition.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Minestrone » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:23 pm UTC

Van wrote:4. "Suggesting a mass claim is scummy." If you've said this, you're omitting a very important group of words: suggesting a mass claim in a normal game is scummy. This game may not be BM, but it's absolutely not a normal game in any sense. Claiming otherwise is absolutely going for low-hanging-bandwagon-fruit.

This may not be a normal game but as you yourself have even admitted by now it's still not a good idea to massclaim. So I don't see what your point is?

Van wrote:My emphasis. Arguing in favor of something you believe in is hardly scummy, but more importantly, that's not even an accurate representation of what I've said. See this post where I literally said "not only are you right about it not being a good idea, but you're more right than you thought you were."

That's not an accurate representation of what I said. I never said that you never admitted to being wrong, only that you stuck with the idea for a couple posts until it was clear everyone was against you, which you did.

Vote: Van

As for a more detailed explanation of my past role, I was Melissa, Stu's girlfriend, and along with the normal SK win condition I had a second (not secondary, just another way to win probably because winning as an SK in a game this big would be super hard) win condition of killing Stu. Killing Stu is no longer a win condition at all for me, probably because I don't even have a kill anymore.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby weiyaoli » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:59 pm UTC

So if Chow had a kill, with two mafia groups out there and Melissa having a kill, we should have had 4 people dead last night?
And you thought I was crazy...

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby Minestrone » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:02 pm UTC

I never got to use my kill, and it's possible whoever got my role didn't either depending on timing.

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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby SDK » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:07 pm UTC

Van wrote:100% baseless hypothesis: if your new role doesn't have a secondary win condition, your original comes along. SDK and RR, did your original roles have secondary win conditions? If not, that's a possible explanation. If RR's role had one, then we'll know that my secondary overwrote his old one, which I guess means it is attached to me.

I had no secondary win condition as Sid.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby RoadieRich » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:16 pm UTC

weiyaoli wrote:So if Chow had a kill, with two mafia groups out there and Melissa having a kill, we should have had 4 people dead last night?

Or someone got lucky with a doctor.
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Re: Hangafia - Day 2 - The Stable Room

Postby SDK » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:58 pm UTC

Or they targeted me since I was a Commuter? There are lots of possibilities. No real point digging into it at this point.
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