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Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:30 pm UTC
by emlightened
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
emlightened wrote:flicky1991 -... No (recent) experience.
@emlightened - Did I miss something? Is flicky not completely new?
I think flicky once said (not in this subforum) that he's played mafia elsewhere a few years back.


(Was going to vote for Dj, but see ninja)

He seems slightly scummier than Madge to me, probably due to the weird scum reads. Both players have been lurky throughout the game so far, but I do expect (and hope) that Madge will likely start posting more after D1.

Nnja'd by Sabrar:
@[anyone online]: I'm not sure if I should move my vote (to Dj), to stop one of Sabrar or dimo forcing who gets lynched by making the alternative a NL. Help/thoughts?

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:33 pm UTC
by Sabrar
I don't want to force anything. As explained earlier I don't feel comfortable about my reads so want to abstain from the whole Dj-vs-Madge thing altogether. Thought I had a good read, as usual I was wrong. Will be online for ~30 minutes if anyone has any great ideas.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:36 pm UTC
by Djehutynakht
Sabrar wrote: If you're Jester just admit it and we'll let you win.


*Thinks back to Smalltown* Oh how the tables have turned...

But no. Really. Not a Jester (also, in my experience most Jesters on this forum tend to be hestitant, with a D2 or later restriction. If a Jester does exist here, that does not necessarily mean theyd be hesitant, but I'd assume it would be more likely than an unrestricted one).

Ive been posting from my phone, so it may be showing me as logged in. I've been busy all day.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:39 pm UTC
by flicky1991
emlightened wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
emlightened wrote:flicky1991 -... No (recent) experience.
@emlightened - Did I miss something? Is flicky not completely new?
I think flicky once said (not in this subforum) that he's played mafia elsewhere a few years back.
Apologies if I gave anyone the impression I'd never played any mafia games. The only comment I've made on my own newness was (emphasis added):
flicky1991 wrote:In terms of speculating what characters may or may not exist in this game, those of you who've played here in the past will probably know better than me what to expect.
I've played on other forums but not for almost five years.


I don't see why Dj would be denying Jester-hood if he was one, but he's still the most suspicious person from my point of view. I'm leaving my vote where it is.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:45 pm UTC
by moody7277
If DJ were a jester, he would be getting an inordinate amount of practice in that role. The game size does not support it IMO. Re voting shenanigans, I don't fault defensive votes, so neutral on DJ there, emlightened not voting to re-tie it is a point in her favor. Weirdest was mpolo putting it at a 3-3 tie between Madge and DJ while, as Sabrar pointed out, explicitly mentioning avoiding ties. As of right now, I am willing to take the most charitable explanation of lack of recent votals to judge by.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:52 pm UTC
by dimochka
emlightened wrote:@[anyone online]: I'm not sure if I should move my vote (to Dj), to stop one of Sabrar or dimo forcing who gets lynched by making the alternative a NL. Help/thoughts?

That sounds to me like you're automatically positioning one of us to be blamed for lynches later on. I'm not sure what exactly prompted you to expect that we would suddenly vote in such a way as to block one option completely. That actually pings me a lot.

vote emlightened

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:56 pm UTC
by Sabrar
dimochka has a good point actually. Time to commit myself to my original idea:

Vote: emlightened

Good night everybody!

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:57 pm UTC
by emlightened
I assumed that, were this to happen, it would be as likely from a mistake in counting votals as a scummy move made to look innocent. (I want to FoS, but that would be mostly OMGUS.)

But, considering now you won't be voting on either of them, I'll vote Dj and let Sabrar (sorry, Sabrar) be the decider.

Vote: Djehutynakht

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:59 pm UTC
by emlightened
Yay, ninja :roll:

Night, Sabrar. We'll let random.org decide who dies, because nobody online has a clue who to vote for.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:01 pm UTC
by emlightened
And I probably just gave myself another reason to be voted on, but this was all a case of me trying to be cautious and cause a tie and potential for scum to take control of the lynch.

Sweet dreams.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:01 pm UTC
by emlightened
(I swear, each of these posts is probably burying me into a deeper hole. F**k. Oh well.)

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:19 pm UTC
by Djehutynakht
Uh... what?

Given her recent trail of posts, I'd be happy to vote for emlightened provided that I can switch my vote from Madge safely.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:21 pm UTC
by emlightened
You probably can, moody's online.

(Basically, I got annoyed at how my post was perceived, and then posted exactly what came to mind, whilst being rather annoyed and tired. definitely not my best moment.)

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:35 pm UTC
by dimochka
Because I've done something similar several times in the past, I can empathize, at least until we get some more concrete information.

Unvote
I'm more tempted to vote DJ after his confirmation that he's not jester, especially because he then "agreed" with sabrar's opinion that he should've voted for madge and went for it. And for buddying me early on (I mean I am town OF COURSE but I did not think that he can just read me as town! That's reserved for Amy and Amy alone.)

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:40 pm UTC
by Djehutynakht
dimochka wrote:Unvote
I'm more tempted to vote DJ after his confirmation that he's not jester, especially because he then "agreed" with sabrar's opinion that he should've voted for madge and went for it. And for buddying me early on (I mean I am town OF COURSE but I did not think that he can just read me as town! That's reserved for Amy and Amy alone.)



Why wouldn't I have 'agreed' with Sabrar? He was absolutely right. I was at 4, Madge was at 3. It was a purely defensive vote. Of course I was going to vote that way. It was a defensive vote, meant, if not necessarily to save me, then to at least give me a 50% shot at survival.

I didn't 'buddy' you. I simply thought you were less scummy then the rest of the game.

Literally everybody who pinged me as town today has subsequently criticized me for pinging them as town. I'm honestly really confused.

And frankly, I'm kind of sick of this happening every single D1.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:50 pm UTC
by dimochka
I really don't like D1.

Ok question to DJ - if you were NOT voting in self-defense, whom would you vote for?

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:55 pm UTC
by Djehutynakht
dimochka wrote:I really don't like D1.

Ok question to DJ - if you were NOT voting in self-defense, whom would you vote for?



That's a good question.

Madge is honestly... not a horrible choice now. I don't have the time to go back and present textual evidence but she's started to ping me. Of course, that might just be a side-effect of our current stand-off to the death and so I admit I'm kind of biased.

Emlightened pings me also. That whole thing she just did strikes me as odd. I get your point that sometimes people just do that, but... I dunno. After an otherwise quiet day this outburst... confuses me. But as I mentioned yesterday, Emlightened is the one I've failed to examine today, so this may be uninformed.


Finally... Sabrar's whole thing about me being a jester, and that we should lynch me and 'let me win' as a Jester totally pinged me. But honestly I was saving that point for tomorrow because it's way too late in the day to wade into that can of worms.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:59 pm UTC
by Snark
Deadline in ~2 hours.

Votals
Madge - 4 - (jimbobmacdoodle, Carlington, mpolo, Djehutynakht)
Djehutynakht - 4 - (Madge, flicky1991, moody7277, emlightened)
emlightened - 1 - (Sabrar)

Not voting: dimochka

10 alive, 6 to lynch.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:00 pm UTC
by dimochka
I assume emlightened's vote didn't count because she didn't unvote first?

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:00 pm UTC
by Djehutynakht
...apparently I totally miscalculated the deadline.

Willing to give more info if needed.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:02 pm UTC
by dimochka
Djehutynakht wrote:...apparently I totally miscalculated the deadline.

Willing to give more info if needed.

I actually thought deadline was 2 minutes ago, but according to the last mod post it's not. Yes, please elaborate.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:05 pm UTC
by Snark
dimochka wrote:I assume emlightened's vote didn't count because she didn't unvote first?

I'm counting it. Unvoting is just a courtesy usually.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:07 pm UTC
by dimochka
Am I just blind, or was emlightened's last vote on DJ?

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:08 pm UTC
by Snark
dimochka wrote:Am I just blind, or was emlightened's last vote on DJ?

Thanks. Will fix.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:33 pm UTC
by Djehutynakht
...Dammit, Dimochka!
_______

Anyways, elaborating.


Madge: Once again, I realize my views on Madge might be tainted due to my position. But my feeling is that (if Madge is scum) at a time when Madge herself was beginning to incur closer scrutiny, she saw in me a target to whom she could redirect attention and hopefully establish someone who might be a lynch alternative to herself. I have a pretty long history of getting myself into these sorts of messes on D1, and as has become evident to me recently, my non-conformist town-scum lists were a sticking point.

I still can't hold against her the lurking nature. But only going after a single player (I don't think she heaped significant suspicion on anyone else) with such determination on what I consider to be so flimsy nature seems to be a scum tactic to me. I don't know if Madge would be so obvious, but she was in the spotlight already.


Emlightened: Doing a quick read on her earlier posts: Not sure about her random vote and focus on lurkers. That's a standard tactic for anyone in this game, but I feel scum are prone to it a bit more because lurkers are easy to prey on and uncontroversial to go after. She admitted that she didn't really base her initial vote on anything in particular and said it probably wouldn't be her final vote... but it pretty much did end up being her final vote, until she found that voting for me in the me-Madge fiasco was more convenient.

Emlightened's final posts actually seem very odd to me; First of all, no justification was made for why she voted for me. Just that she wanted to...and then she said she was going to let Sabrar be the decider. After she realized she left, she decided she was going to let it go to random.org. So she was going to cause a random lynch without giving any specific reason as to why she thought a random lynch would be best or why she voted for me in the first place?

Emlightened created a lot of drama with no explicit explanation for it. I think she looks scummy and I would honestly be happy to look into voting for her if not fighting for my life.


Sabrar: I'm not entirely sure how to analyze the whole "Dj's probably a Jester, let's vote for him and let him win" thing. It's too fresh. I need to think about it. And I'm sure Sabrar might be able to come up with an explanation. But it's weird. First of all, as was reinforced in Smalltown, it is considered very Unorthodox to give in to a Jester. Anti-town, even. Why he would go this direction is beyond me. Also, as I pointed out, it's much more common for us to have hesitant Jesters (delayed till D2) than all-out regular Jesters on this forum. So suggesting that town help the Jester 'win' is also odd.

Then again, Sabrar has been shown to have ideas about gameplay that differ from many in the forum, such as his advocacy for NL. Ultimately, this is too fresh for me to make a decision on, and in all honesty he probably should speak on the matter first.


Therefore I think I'd have to go with Madge or Emlightened; I'm leaning a bit toward Emlightened because the more I look into her play the more it's really starting to get me suspicious.

I'd almost be willing to say that Madge and Emlightened were a scumteam (explaining Emlightened's no-explanation vote on me; the delay until the final moments to avoid appearances of buddying). But that's almost too good to be true. Part of me suspects Emlightened could be a malevolent independent; the gameplay sort of seems that way.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:35 am UTC
by Madge
At the moment with the votes the way they are, there's really not much I can do but pile on you, DJ. I'm sorry. As I've said in other games I'm sure this is probably a townie on townie rumble as I like to call them, which early tiffs like this tend to be.

I obviously don't want to be killed today so I'm quite happy to lynch anyone if that will save my skin, but deadline's in half an hour so I can't really change the target at this point.

If you and I both vote for emlightened then we can force a 3 way tie and let the RNG do it, but I'm worried that's a kind of prisoner's dilemma sort of thing. I'm on for the next half hour until deadline so if you want we can give it a shot, or if someone else would rather emlightened, then that's fine.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:43 am UTC
by Djehutynakht
unvote

vote: emlightened


If we three way tie with emlightened it lessens the risk for each of us by a third. If someone else wants to vote for emlightened and put her in the lead, Id be comfortable with that lynch.

If nothing moves, Ill have to switch my vote back to Madge.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:46 am UTC
by Madge
unvote

vote: emlightened


Prisoner's dilemma here we come!!!!!

Fortunately if you're scum, I trust you not to switch back because that's scummy AF and will likely lead to you being lynched or vigg'd, so I'm not too worried.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:48 am UTC
by Djehutynakht
And ditto here.

I think that the ultimate dilemma is a third party voting for one of us last minute.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:49 am UTC
by Madge
I am so scared, especially because there's no hard deadline, and emlightened can change her vote to me and well..... that won't be fun.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:50 am UTC
by Djehutynakht
There is a hard deadline, according to the rules, I think. Am I wrong?

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:53 am UTC
by Madge
You may post in thread during the day phase but not the twilight phase. If the deadline for a day passes, then it is automatically night, whether or not the mod has had time to make a day-end post.


Looks like. That's good. Ten minutes to run down the clock and hope there's no crazy voting happening behind the scenes.

I guess I'll change my avatar back to my old one.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:54 am UTC
by Madge
There's no strict count down timer that I can see though. My last post was at 8:53 and the day start post was at 8:32, and both of our vote changes happened after 8:32 a week later; so... depending on how Snark is interpreting the day end, we may have been breaking the rules by doing our votes when we did, and may further be breaking the rules now?

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [N1: Dear Diary]

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:55 am UTC
by Snark
As stated in D1 opening post, deadline was exactly 7 days from opening post. Deadline ended with the following votals:

Votals
Madge - 4 - (jimbobmacdoodle, Carlington, mpolo, Djehutynakht)
Djehutynakht - 4 - (Madge, flicky1991, moody7277, emlightened)
emlightened - 1 - (Sabrar)

Not voting: dimochka

10 alive, 6 to lynch.


random.org chooses Djehutynakht as lynch target out of 2-way tie.

Send in your night actions. Deadline for night is in exactly 3 days.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [N1: Dear Diary]

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:55 am UTC
by Djehutynakht
...

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:43 pm UTC
by Snark
Djehutynakht was lynched. Their role PM:
Snark wrote:You are mafia. You win when town and all rival anti-town factions are defeated.

You are a Role PM Cop. You may target one player each night to cop them. You will be given a partial copy of their role PM (which won't include the names of any team members or Pen Pals).

As long as your Pen Pal is alive, you are immune to and invisible to night actions.

Your Pen Pal PM will arrive shortly.


Deadline in 6 "days" and since weekends count down half, that actually means exactly 7 days.

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:02 pm UTC
by Sabrar
Quick reaction, detailed analysis to come later: If we have a Roleblocker, please don't claim immediately as we can't be sure that it was your ability that prevented the NK (e.g. we could have a Doctor). Obviously Doctor shouldn't claim just yet either for the same reasons.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D1: Dear John]

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:06 pm UTC
by Sabrar
Djehutynakht wrote:Also, to restate, I don't believe that quiet D1 = scum. In my experience it's been a totally false stereotype that just as often as not particularly talkative scum have utilized to get an easy mislynch D1.

Also, megalol.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:41 pm UTC
by dimochka
Glad about how N1 turned out, but lack of kill worries me. I honestly expected two kills, so to assume that both were blocked and/or saved by doctor is a little too unlikely. I can still potentially see two kills happening in one subsequent night.

I'm also somewhat glad I didn't get to vote because my vote would've been for Madge. And that doesn't mean that she's off the hook.

Will get to re-reads probably tomorrow, have a lot going on this weekend.

Re: Pen Pals Mafia [D2: Dear Abby]

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:53 pm UTC
by Sabrar
My main concern currently: is it possible that Dj was bussed or can we clear the players who voted for him? (of course they could be independent but apparently we have no SK so our main goal should be to find his scum-buddy first).

emlightened: I think she's only scum if Madge is one as well because if Madge is Town (or indie) then emlightened would have obviously not voted for Dj as that set up the tie.
flicky1991: voted early for Dj, had the opportunity to change it but stayed consistent. Unlikely to be scum.
Madge: very difficult to analyze due to post-deadline shenanigans, which (knowing Snark's adherence to rules) she could have anticipated not to count. Given her earlier interactions with Dj it is unlikely that she's Dj's buddy but theoretically they could have planned such a gambit in advance.
moody7277: voted for Madge originally, changed to Dj. Only scum if Madge is one as well.

There is still a very small chance that the remaining scum is running a gambit to appear townie, however I don't think that intentionally bussing your teammate when an easy alternative is available is something we need to worry about right now, especially given Dj's incredibly useful ability. Therefore as it currently stands I will not support any lynch today that targets one of the 4 players above (as I don't think we have 2 more scum to find).

More to come later.