Shakespeare Mafia III - Curtain Call

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LaserGuy
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby LaserGuy » Wed May 24, 2017 4:40 pm UTC

bessie wrote:This is role playing/post restriction. I told you I’m over it. Or are you trying to distract me into a discussion of Macbeth so I waste my time not scum hunting? Ok, Macbeth Act V Scene 5 for those that wish to follow along. What does the imagery of this passage tell us about Macbeth’s mental state? Do you believe Macbeth feels any remorse for his wife’s death? What does this tell us about Macbeth’s philosophy of life and death?


I understand that it's a role playing/post restriction. Does that mean it isn't content? Why is it that as soon as someone started to analyze those quotes, you reacted so strongly? I'm not asking you to analyze the plays. You are obviously very familiar with the flavor, far more than I. Familiar enough that I assume you must know the context in which those quotations are set. I'm not interested in MacBeth's mental state in Act V Scene 5, I'm interested in your mental state on May 14 and May 20.

Here's my questions again.
LaserGuy wrote:In that quoted post from Hamlet, what did you mean when you were saying that you couldn't play against your wincon? Why did you choose the soliloquy where Hamlet was contemplating suicide?

LaserGuy wrote:MacBeth gives this speech in response to hearing about the suicide of his wife and co-conspirator. I think she went mad and jumped out off a balcony. Why was this what came to mind upon DethStalker's demise?


Still waiting for answers.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby LaserGuy » Wed May 24, 2017 5:01 pm UTC

plytho wrote:This is false, the post you link to is on page 3, while DethStalker shows up here on page 2.


Thanks. I've been working in list-by-author mostly for the past few days and have been getting the timestamps confused constantly.

Madge wrote:I'm not planning on voting today so this is mostly so I can be helpful(???? you be the judge) / generate random content.


@Madge and everyone else not voting. That's plytho, dimochka, kalira, Bard and Madge. You should be voting in D2. If most of you are townies, you are giving scum control over the lynch by not voting. It doesn't matter if you aren't certain. A townie voting their best read is still better than scum voting for a townie. Vote, or at least tell us who you want to vote for. No weaseling out. Give us a single name.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby dimochka » Wed May 24, 2017 5:10 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@Madge and everyone else not voting. That's plytho, dimochka, kalira, Bard and Madge. You should be voting in D2. If most of you are townies, you are giving scum control over the lynch by not voting. It doesn't matter if you aren't certain. A townie voting their best read is still better than scum voting for a townie. Vote, or at least tell us who you want to vote for. No weaseling out. Give us a single name.

Yes, I will (as I mentioned in my last post). With all else equal it's Yolo but I didn't want to put a vote down yet because I haven't gone through his D2 responses that happened over the last 24 hours.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby SDK » Wed May 24, 2017 6:57 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Also backcountry camping sounds cool, enjoy your trip!

Thanks, it was fun! Weather was beautiful, so though there was snow on the ground when we hiked in and set up camp, it was mostly melted by the second day. That snow reflected sunlight like crazy though, so we all ended up sunburnt. I feel like a bad parent - my son has a pretty big blister on his cheek from his sunburn. We were wearing hats, but the reflection was enough to cook us well. Overall, a great trip though!

LaserGuy wrote:
mpolo wrote:Votals:
Gopher of Pern (1): bessie


Noted for posterity.

LaserGuy, this is from your first post of Day 2. Why did you think this was important?

Gopher of Pern wrote:We are also assuming that supernatural means scum. It may be possible that an indy or town may be supernatural. I doubt it (as that would essentially make one a miller), but its worth considering.

Supernatural doesn't mean human with magical abilities. From conversation with mpolo, it sounds like they're monsters, or at least non-human. Pretty sure that any town would have investigated as not supernatural unless they were a monster themselves somehow.

BoomFrog wrote:SDK, if this is a part of your puzzle
Speak it now or forever hold your peace.

I am town, not independent.

BoomFrog wrote:
- I am on the townie side of neutral despite being referred to as "a man of low character". Throughout the Day, I continually slide further and further towards scum while it seems others generally agree that I am becoming more townie if anything (as is my usual course, I suppose).
I recall a recent story where,
a man such as you was proclaimed King of town,
at last he was the wickedest of all.
It is my charge then to remember,
And ensure history's cycle is not too swift,
to bring us to that same cursed fate.

That doesn't really follow with your actions later. It sounds like you're saying you were just scared I might be scum, but then came up with pretty bad reasons for thinking so at the time.

BoomFrog wrote:
Overall, I see a lot of reasons to believe BoomFrog is scum, and nothing to make me believe he is town. Someone mentioned that he's being more helpful this game, but I don't even see that - he's being less direct and less earnest in his scumhunting, and that's the key here. Maybe I should have pushed this yesterday instead of Madge. In any case, I do believe DethStalker is likely town, especially if BoomFrog is scum, so I'd rather do this. I realize deadline is in an hour, but if you like this case, make your vote. Since a tie just initiates an extension, there is no risk.


In light of day DethStalker is revealed,
If the horse stumbles the wagon follows,
If the wagon pulls is the horse born back?

Perhaps being direct doesn't suit
an enthusiastic fool.

In addition to the masterful prose, I liked this post for the most part, though you didn't answer my other questions. There have been a few along the way that you've ignored.


SirGabriel feels okay.


Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:You? Shut up? Now that's surprising.
You know what? You're completely right. It's incredibly boring when everyone leaves for the weekend, and with me being in a different timezone we'll have precious little time to talk when you return.

1. Why did you have YOLOSWAG as townie here? What is your opinion of him right now?
2. You've tried twice to shift the lynch away from DethStalker. Did you think his content would improve?
3. Your case on BoomFrog depends multiple times on his reads being inconsistent when considering scum-teams. However this is completely off-base if we have 2 of those which was already heavily discussed by that time. Why did you not take that into account?

1. He felt like regular old YOLOSWAG. Wasn't a strong read, but stronger than my pile of neutrals there. I didn't like his content at the opening of Day 2, and now he's disappeared (for real reasons), though it seems he's very disconnected from the game. I think you later state that he doesn't seem to care much who we lynch, and I can see that in his posting as well (which mirrors his play in the last game). Him being scum is believable, though I'll want to check it out in more detail myself.
2. Whether or not his content improved, I'm not interested in lynching townies. It was pure luck that he flipped scum and his wagon left us flopping Day 2 because it wasn't as helpful as it could have been. Part of the reason I fight back against wagons like that is because even if they do end up lynched, at least I get to see how people react to my posts (and you get to ask me this question because I didn't follow the blind lynch).
3. I didn't think there were two scum teams, I thought it was more likely there was an SK. I'm still not 100% convinced we have two teams.


I'm conflicted on LaserGuy vs. Bessie. This looks like scum-style tunneling, but it's true that Bessie is acting weird (especially here). I'll get back to that in a minute...


plytho feels... wrong somehow. I can't put words to it yet, just his writing style. Like here. Need to do a player readthrough. This doesn't feel like he's trying to read BoomFrog, more that he's trying to defend YOLO.

DGames | Bard wrote:BoomFrog seems to be a popular topic as well, but I don't really have a strong opinion on him. If I have time, I'll do a quick reread of some of the other slots to see what I can find.

Was that "I don't really have a strong opinion on him" based on a reread of BoomFrog? You make no comment on him at all here, which is strange.


I have no idea why people are reading Gopher of Pern as scummy. I mean, he's made some mistakes (or as BoomFrog puts it later, "out-loud musing"), but this is town Gopher talking here. Should reread to confirm that, but I'm pretty certain.

Sabrar2.0 is almost certainly town as well.

I like LaserGuy a little more now that he's picking on plytho. That exchange leaves him looking pretty good and plytho a little worse.

Gopher of Pern wrote:YOLO strikes me as the kind of person who would totally bus the hell out of an unhelpful teammate.

Yes, he happily trades teammates for town cred, which is usually not a good trade in my experience. YOLO nightkilled a teammate in a previous game just so he could claim vig.

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:However, this post is quite foul. SDK, are you SURE bessie is town?

I do not know that for a fact, but I strongly strongly suspect that she has a win condition that is in line with the town win condition. It's possible she's neutral, but not something like an SK. Based on my role PM, she can at least win with town (which I therefore read as likely town).


Yeah, YOLO seems a good choice. I'll confirm that before I vote, but that actually makes my life a lot easier.

bessie wrote:
LaserGuy wrote: And? Why does Town!bessie care about whether or not you're at the top of everyone's list? How does this entire tangent help town? If people are correctly reading you as town, that's a good thing, and not something you should be worried about.
I think you have that backwards. Scum!Bessie would be very happy to sit back and let everyone rubber stamp her townie and put her at the top of their town lists based on meta and an unquestioned claim. Town!Bessie should be quite suspicious of some people's motivations.

And I guess town!bessie would bother explaining all this too? You guys are arguing over WIFOM.

bessie wrote:
SDK wrote:Are you asking this because bessie is town? Because she is. Good to know that someone else got that confirmation in their role PM too.
He could have later claimed that this was one of his antics, but he didn’t. He doubled down.

Did you intentionally wait to comment on it until after I had doubled down? Why?

Bessie, do you think LaserGuy is scum?


BoomFrog wrote:Can you post what you partially have? It's less than 24 hours to deadline after already extending. At this point it feels like you are avoiding posting for fear of making a mistake. Why not post bits and pieces as you think of them?

Sorry, almost done. I was contemplating claiming my role to clear up everything with Bessie, alongside solidifying my read of DGames and LaserGuy. I don't think that's necessary now.





TOWN

Gopher of Pern - This is town Gopher.
Znirk/Sabrar - This is town Sabrar.
Bessie - Mod "confirmed", but feeling different (not scummy, different).
dimochka - Feels town. Haven't given him much thought since mid-Day 1.
BoomFrog - Feels a lot better Day 2. Answer my questions.

SirGabriel - Not sure. He's got enough content that I should have a read here.
freezeblade/kalira - Hopefully kalira can finish catching up soon. No read yet.
DGames | Bard - Disengaged and a few ticks of active lurking here and there. Would like to see more involved. I should grill him at some point.
LaserGuy - Continues to have strings of scummy posts followed by strings of townie posts. Not sure how to read that.

Madge - Yeah, she can stay here until I see a good reason to budge.
plytho - If YOLOSWAG is scum, plytho is most likely buddy. Need to reread.
#HBC | YOLOSWAG - Seems likely. Reread incoming.

SCUM
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby plytho » Wed May 24, 2017 7:04 pm UTC

Spoilered for traffic talk.
Spoiler:
Madge wrote:So are you in the traffic biz????????? It's definitely a cool idea. During peak we have a few intersections that are all linked together, so it's the sort of thing you might try with them - but during peak you're probably not all going at full speed anyway and the phasing is still adaptive so yeah... And during, like, night-time when it's full-on off-peak, we have the primary phase on solid green so the speed you travel is irrelevant.

Good for systems where it works no doubt.
I am in the traffic biz, well, I'm on the government side of it. Mostly into highway technology.

LaserGuy wrote:Thanks. I've been working in list-by-author mostly for the past few days and have been getting the timestamps confused constantly.

Thank you! I wasn't aware of list-by-author until I clicked one of your links. I'd been ctrl-effing everyone page by page :| .

My read on Gopher hasn’t changed.

vote: Gopher of Pern

Now to read that post by SDK.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby plytho » Wed May 24, 2017 7:33 pm UTC

I really like SDK's post. The only thing I disagree with are his reads on me and Gopher :)
I think I'm going to drop my indie read on him, he's probably town.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby kalira » Wed May 24, 2017 7:49 pm UTC

Okay, on with second half of D1:
Bard seems to be playing it safe D1 if YOLO’s description of him is accurate. RE: that description, I find it interesting that GoP (“You could be telling the truth, and they are scum hiding behind their newness to these forums, or you could be scum, trying to get a townie lynched due to your knowledge of them as a player.”) seems to ignore the possibility that YOLO is telling the truth and Bard is also townie cautious because new to these forums. If either/both of GoP and YOLO are scum, I don’t think they are on the same team. Their interactions are just off.

Bessie wrote: What I find interesting is those who so easily accepted SDK’s claim that I am town as truth, but would still label SDK scum.

If SDK is scum, and you are not on his team, chances are it is far more likely that you are town than not (especially as it had not been mostly confirmed that there was a second scum faction at that point). If you flip town, he could get townie points (though admittedly less likely due to everyone being super careful about reading into that claim, possibly due to other recent games). If you flip scum, he has now covered down on his losses by changing that claim to “my role PM *implies* she’s town.” So scum!SDK could successfully distance himself from that flip and end up not losing any face. I’m not saying I believe it or not, but I can see where people are coming from on it.

BoomFrog mentions that (Znirk and) Dethstalker should be the mod’s business, and that they should be replaced. Znirk was definitely in the lurker category, but BF should well know that a mod is not going to replace a player who is participating -- caveats probably always apply, but pretty much, if they’re playing, whether good, bad, or indifferent, no replacement. Hell, we’ve even had at least one game where a player was participating one Day only in that he talked to the mod through PM to say he was still around and posted pretty much nothing in thread, and he wasn’t modkilled (I can’t remember who or which game, but it sticks in my memory).
Ditto Madge and LaserGuy’s list, though LG has less history here to know such things.

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote: I understand the hesitation because he is new, but he HAS given us something to work with: active refusal to contribute. Perhaps he doesn't want to say anything that could incriminate himself or potential scumbuddies.

Scum-ping. To me, that last sentence sounds more like scumbuddy coaching than what bessie was doing.

SDK wrote: Also, in my opinion, vig shots are just as powerful as the lynch. Like the lynch, they shouldn't be used to shoot lurkers unless there's no better choice available.

Agreed. Town has the numbers advantage, but that also means there is more of a chance that a lurker will be town just based on the numbers. Vigs shouldn’t shoot willy-nilly unless they actually think they’re targeting scum, especially on N1.

Cliffhangers (things I want to make sure I check in D2) –
  • BoomFrog wrote: If LaserGuy is scum I suspect DethStalker is too. Especially with how angry LaserGuy's later interaction with Dethstalker is.

    (From this post) I’m interested in what you think of LaserGuy after DS’s scumflip. Will come back to this once I’m caught up.
  • Does Bard ever explain his “verrrrrry good reasons” not to lynch LaserGuy?
  • Did Bard ever respond to Sabrar’s question here? If not, I second this question.
  • SDK claims one-sided information about bessie; Bard seems to claim (one-sided?) information about LaserGuy. LaserGuy does not post during the rest of D1. Does LaserGuy respond D2 to this claim? Is LaserGuy in this situation asked why he doesn't respond to this early after it was claimed?
  • Sabrar(V2.0) – I am curious whether you explain your former self with regards to Sabrar(V1.0)’s having placed your former self in such scummy settings on his list.

Must admit my suspicions were aroused a bit on dim, BF, Madge when reading late D1 given their placement of SabrarV1.0 at the absolute top of their town reads. (No offense intended, Sabrar, but) I feel like nobody should be that unsuspicious of Sabrar, esp on a D1. He plays much the same as scum as he does when he is town, so it is intensely difficult to determine where his allegiances lie D1 (unless of course, one is scum and knows that Sabrar is not on your team and therefore likely town). Of course, the fact that SabrarV1.0 ended up flipping town should have no bearing on this read, as town![dim,BF,Madge] theoretically would not know that SabrarV1.0 would flip as such.

LaserGuy (RE: Unvote Znirk): Ah, I guess I was interested in your vote mechanic after all. Thank you for the explanation. I didn’t make that connection. (I see you explained it later in D1 as well, so thanks also for repeating it.)

Skimmed and saw your question, so answering here.
Sabrar, RE: Dethstalker’s hated vote also being attention-grabbing – TBH, I saw it as less attention-grabbing than bessie’s autovote. Obv bessie’s vote automatically brings the attention of the person she’s voting for, and it would have been a fairly obvious stepping stone for conversation (Did you choose who your vote was going to be on before the game started? Why did you choose them? etc.). IDK why, but Dethstalker’s hated vote just felt different to me. It felt more as if they were someone who had been aggrieved by another player anonymously (less likely to me) or by the mod mechanically, so I guess the difference is more that bessie’s could be seen as aggressive whereas DS’s seemed kind of part of the background info. If I’m honest, though, I probably would have also given DS a slight pass as town on the basis of the hated vote at the beginning, but I have the benefit of their flip now. For the record, I don’t believe I said I believe bessie is town based on that autovote, just that the mechanic seems less likely to be given to a scum player, so I was leaning a little town on her at the beginning based on that.

Immediately jumping into D2 in depth.

Final D1 thoughts: I didn't like LG early on; if I had to vote based only on the first 4 pages, it very likely would have been him. His posts got more townie-seeming later in D1, but he feels like he's moving back and forth between scummy seeming and townie seeming for me. GoP and BF seeming a bit on the scummier side to me, and I'm not finding YOLO too likeable atm.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 24, 2017 8:10 pm UTC

SDK wrote:YOLO nightkilled a teammate in a previous game just so he could claim vig.
Was this a different game from Smalltown where YOLO's vig ability was known to everyone? Want to be clear before using info.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Wed May 24, 2017 8:12 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:FOS Madge
...
Bard and bessie for their obviously scummy posts I quoted, though Bard in particular has been acting like scum for a while now that I think about it.

Here's who you don't lynch: GoP, LaserGuy, BoomFrog, dimochka, SDK, plytho, SirG in order of innocence in my opinion.

Why would you say to lynch Bessie but not SDK? Have you paid any attention to the thread at all? SDK stands by his claim that Bessie is almost certainly town. Do you think SDK is making a mistake but is still town?
Why is SDK standing by a bessie town claim scummy in and of itself?

Bessie looks bad today. However, LaserGuy's overconfidence reminds me of his push on me last game. If Bessie is innocent, I'd slap LG on the scumlist.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby SDK » Wed May 24, 2017 8:21 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:YOLO nightkilled a teammate in a previous game just so he could claim vig.
Was this a different game from Smalltown where YOLO's vig ability was known to everyone? Want to be clear before using info.

No, same one. Forgot it was public.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 24, 2017 8:27 pm UTC

Oh well.

Liking kalira's post, also SDK reminds me of his townie games, have to re-read Dark Tower to see if he was capable of the same there.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Wed May 24, 2017 8:32 pm UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Vote: freezeblade

He's got a scummy D1 meta and will be suspected anyway. Let's just skip the formalities and lynch him now. Besides, I'd prefer being a widow.

On a more serious note our scum team is most definitely jimbob+YOLOSWAG+SirGabriel who coordinated in scum chat before confirming.

On a really serious note I'm eagerly awaiting bessie's analysis on DGames, LaserGuy, SDK, YOLOSWAG and Znirk.
The fair Madam Sabrar hath suggested that I am both scum and need to be analyzed in this opening act, yet has elected to vote the notorious Blade of Ice instead. She is clearly torn as to where her affection lies.

Sabrar, thou doth break my heart.

Interesting how there's such a disconnect in interest in the game as time progresses. YOLO was super gung-ho to start.

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Also bessie's confirmed town? Cool, though I would have preferred a player who's less obviously innocent when town, heh.

When YOLO first posted this, I thought he was taking it at face value to see how people reacted to that. As we've progressed, that is clearly not the case. He accepted this very easily and continued accepting it even when things went sour elsewhere. He talks about the possibility that I was joking, but never questions my motives for bringing this up in the first place (it is unusual that I should be voicing this so soon - normal town behavior would be to wait until Bessie was in danger, both to avoid her getting nightkilled and to get the most information possible from interactions prior to the reveal).

The way YOLOSWAG talks about DethStalker re: day chat and re: replacements has me wondering if YOLO's feeling a bit unfaired upon this game. Not that that swings the read either way, but I can definitely see the argument for him being DethStalker's buddy.

The DethStalker lynch went down with YOLO being one of the only ones pushing it, but he was happy to move to LaserGuy or Madge up until the end. Day 2 is actually more convicted than I had the impression of while reading all the posts together. He's pretty all over the place though, and what questions he does ask seem spurious since he never really revisits them, and ends up chasing shadows somewhere else next time he posts. He seems strangely consistent in his reads of Gopher and me (he seemed to start the Day following my reads as well), and almost completely ignores dimochka, plytho and SirGabriel. Otherwise, most everyone came under fire today, but in too scattershot a way to really call it scum hunting, and too inconsistently to be coming from town as well. "Scattershot" can kinda describe YOLO's town meta as well, but this case feels more like YOLO's become frantic after getting some attention.




Checking interaction, YOLOSWAG hits plytho in his confirmation post. The only other interaction is YOLO thanking plytho for reminding him that freezeblade was replaced by kalira.

On the flip side, plytho first interacts with YOLOSWAG in the beginning of Day 2 asking him two questions that went unanswered. plytho did not follow up, and this doesn't seem to have changed plytho's read - plytho calls him town based on Day 1 content (though Day 1 plytho called YOLO "hard to read", which got upgraded Day 2 to "active scumhunting"). That was walked back almost immediately when Sabrar questioned him on it, though later he defends his Day 1 town read against LaserGuy. plytho shouldn't even have a town read anymore - YOLO is neutral at best.

Despite all this, plytho does not get involved with discussion on YOLO at all, except when he comes to defend him. Interaction alone points strongly to these two being buddies.



As for plytho himself, he focuses on some interesting things Day 1. He talks briefly about my confirmation of Bessie, saying that it's weird for me to assuming Sabrar had the same thing in his role PM, but then never mentions it again. What he does talk a lot about is DethStalker's hated vote. That's basically it - plytho does zero hunting between his first post right up until asking for an extension. It's interesting that he's so focused on that vote, that particular mechanical discussion. Is this our three-man mafia team?

First real post near end-of-Day is fine. Not much scummy, not much townie. Either avoids or doesn't have reads on some people he should (for example, me). I'm also not a fan of his response when Sabrar points out that some of his reads seem inconsistent.

No time to properly finish this. Overall, plytho's been feeling much more disengaged with the game than I'm used to, especially in Day 2 where I first picked up on it (that was the weird thing I was trying to put words to). There's also the weird way he treated bessie (and me by extension). Either way, I'm comfortable enough with my read on him that proving out this team with a YOLOSWAG lynch seems the thing to do.

Vote YOLOSWAG.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Wed May 24, 2017 8:32 pm UTC

I'm a roleblocker and targeted jimbob by the way.

If you guys lynch me, remember my list.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby LaserGuy » Wed May 24, 2017 8:41 pm UTC

Unofficial totals for reference. Hope this is right:

Gopher of Pern (2): SirGabriel, plytho
Sabrar (1): #HBC | YOLOSWAG
SDK (1): LaserGuy
#HBC | YOLOSWAG (3): Sabrar, BoomFrog, SDK
BoomFrog (1): Gopher of Pern

Not voting: bessie, dimochka, Madge, kalira, Bard

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby DGames | Bard » Wed May 24, 2017 8:57 pm UTC

Hey guys, just doing quick hits at the moment.

I'm currently leaning towards Gopher, but will compromise to Yolo if we need the votes. I think Gopher is the better play though.
Vote: Gopher of Pern

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 24, 2017 9:16 pm UTC

@YOLOSWAG: based on a quick search you never seem to mention jimbob D1. Why did you decide to block him?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Wed May 24, 2017 9:23 pm UTC

Because besides him, I had a bunch of nulls whose powers could at least help point to their alignment and I didn't want to deprive town of info. Of the active people, jimbob looked the worst.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Wed May 24, 2017 9:27 pm UTC

That said, I'm going to point out that I wouldn't have roleblocked AND killed jimbob.

Yeah, I could be part of the other team, but I want to note that disconnect. I can prove my power if y'all leave me be.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Wed May 24, 2017 9:41 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
On the flip side, plytho first interacts with YOLOSWAG in the beginning of Day 2 asking him two questions that went unanswered. plytho did not follow up, and this doesn't seem to have changed plytho's read - plytho calls him town based on Day 1 content (though Day 1 plytho called YOLO "hard to read", which got upgraded Day 2 to "active scumhunting").
False, YOLOSWAG did answer those questions in his next post, here.


SDK wrote:Despite all this, plytho does not get involved with discussion on YOLO at all, except when he comes to defend him. Interaction alone points strongly to these two being buddies.
I was not defending YOLOSWAG in that post. I was trying to figure out BoomFrog's reasoning. At that point he had a reads list without scum, which I was concerned about. Then he voted for yolo seemingly based on Sabrar's comments on him, so I asked him about it.

SDK wrote:As for plytho himself, he focuses on some interesting things Day 1. He talks briefly about my confirmation of Bessie, saying that it's weird for me to assuming Sabrar had the same thing in his role PM, but then never mentions it again. What he does talk a lot about is DethStalker's hated vote. That's basically it - plytho does zero hunting between his first post right up until asking for an extension. It's interesting that he's so focused on that vote, that particular mechanical discussion. Is this our three-man mafia team?

Well, I was quite busy the first couple of days and that vote (the nature of it and Sabrar's policy lynch proposal) was something I could talk about without doing any deep thinking. When I asked for an extension I was writing my reads post (which does require deep thinking, at least for me).
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby LaserGuy » Wed May 24, 2017 11:00 pm UTC

SDK wrote:LaserGuy, this is from your first post of Day 2. Why did you think this was important?


I wasn't sure if it was, but I wanted to highlight it in case it became important later. At this point, I think on the whole it's probably unimportant.

SDK wrote:Supernatural doesn't mean human with magical abilities. From conversation with mpolo, it sounds like they're monsters, or at least non-human. Pretty sure that any town would have investigated as not supernatural unless they were a monster themselves somehow.


Was this via PM? I don't remember this coming up at all.

SDK wrote:3. I didn't think there were two scum teams, I thought it was more likely there was an SK. I'm still not 100% convinced we have two teams.


What do you think the setup looks like then? Above, you're talking about monsters, in the plural, and believe that they're scum-aligned in some way. DethStalker's role PM indicates that he had nightchat with one or more people.

DGames | Bard wrote:I'm currently leaning towards Gopher, but will compromise to Yolo if we need the votes. I think Gopher is the better play though.
Vote: Gopher of Pern


Not surprised about this. I think dimochka asked you this before, but I feel it needs reiterating. Is Gopher of Pern also mentioned in your role PM?

DGames | Bard wrote:I really want Yoloswag to come clean and explain himself a bit more, as well as answer my earlier question.


What do you think of YOLO's explanations and his roleclaim?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby DGames | Bard » Thu May 25, 2017 12:06 am UTC

@Laserguy - My King! I'm not really a fan of Sir Yoloswag's play style; I can't say I get his suspicions of me this game because he hasn't really explained them to me. He kinda asserts himself in a way that isn't very transparent with his intentions, i.e. he says my posts are "disgusting," but he doesn't say what is "disgusting" about them. Another example that comes to mind is when he says I should be in the lynch pool, but doesn't really go in depth with the why. I'm not sure how he expects me to trust him in this type of situation. On that note, I wonder how he feels about me going for Gopher as a priority before putting him further on the chopping block.

Anyway, the roleblocker claim is interesting (I don't necessarily feel Jim was a bad target? I'm not sure who I would've picked to roleblock in his position). With many 1-shot claims (i.e. doctor), two killing factions, and perhaps more, a roleblocker seems like it might fit in this set up, fairly strong. I won't speculate too much though considering the crux of mafia falls on reads and the like!

Oh yeah, and Gopher isn't mentioned in my PM; only you are mentioned in my PM!

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu May 25, 2017 12:20 am UTC

Yay! SDK is back!

I was expecting for him to come in, and for me to disagree with his points, but there is very little I can find fault with. Thus, I will trust him regarding bessie, although I still don't think she is town. Town aligned indy, probably.

I'm still not convinved about Boomfrog. Still misses things, and I think they are going after YOLO for the wrong reasons. They haven't responded to reasons why YOLO might be guild-scum as opposed to ghost-scum, and this in particular:
BoomFrog wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:FOS Madge
...
Bard and bessie for their obviously scummy posts I quoted, though Bard in particular has been acting like scum for a while now that I think about it.

Here's who you don't lynch: GoP, LaserGuy, BoomFrog, dimochka, SDK, plytho, SirG in order of innocence in my opinion.

Why would you say to lynch Bessie but not SDK? Have you paid any attention to the thread at all? SDK stands by his claim that Bessie is almost certainly town. Do you think SDK is making a mistake but is still town?


I had already pointed out in thread that SDK had pulled back a bit on the confirmation, so there was wiggle room there (I think it's cleared up now). I feel like this is pot calling the kettle black, as Boomfrog is not paying attention to some things.

I know I can come across as a bit scummy, but I refuse to believe that 3 town players would pick me as scum. So I'm looking at SirGabriel, plytho and Bard. From my feelings, I do feel Bard is a bit misguided, but they have tunnelled hard on me. I have a theory regarding them, but I would prefer to share it the next day, as revealing it now would be counter-productive. SirGabriel and plytho I'm less sure about. They've posted enough to get by, but they have been fairly quiet. I'm going to have to look more into them.

YOLO, I'm still not sure whether they are guild-scum or town (possibly indy). I still doubt they are ghost-scum, as they wouldn't have the confusing at the beginning of the day. Regarding the roleblock claim, that really doesn't point either way. It's a common role for both sides, and his choice of target is convenient.

Madge, needs to post more, but sometimes RL gets in the way.

Sabrar, is still on the townie side, but much less so than day 1.

Kalira is doing a decent job at catching up. Some things do stand out though. Why didn't you put me in the same camp as dimochka, Boomfrog, and Madge, when I had Sabrar at the top of my town list as well?

Laserguy I'm still alright with, but they may be tunnelling a bit too hard on bessie now.

Dimochka I feel needs to post more. I keep seeing 'promise to post' posts, but little content.

TOWN
GopherofPern
Kalira
Laserguy
Sabrar
SDK
bessie
Dimochka
Madge
Bard
YOLO
SirGabriel
plytho
Boomfrog
SCUM

Unvote
Vote: YOLO


A lot of those positions are teetering. I'll have to go through SirG and plytho, to see where they really should lie.

I'd rather remove Boomfrog today, but YOLO should be ok. I would be shocked if they turned out to be ghost-scum. Guild-scum is quite believeable.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby BoomFrog » Thu May 25, 2017 3:59 am UTC

SDK wrote: though you didn't answer my other questions. There have been a few along the way that you've ignored.

I don't recall ignoring any of your questions in purpose. The only question I've intentionally ignored are question about why I find some certain people scummy or townie. Between RL pressure and spending too much time on my posting restriction I've probably ignored more questions then I intended to. Do you mind repeating the questions you feel I didn't answer?

The one thing I'm intentionally not answering is about why there are three people in the "secret townie club".
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Thu May 25, 2017 5:23 am UTC

We usually don't majority lynch someone before deadline, right?

I want to reread the game then make a post. So please don't hammer me before then.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Thu May 25, 2017 5:24 am UTC

I should have time in the morning but it will be cutting it close to deadline. I think I can do it though.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby BoomFrog » Thu May 25, 2017 5:47 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote: I'm still not convinved about Boomfrog. Still misses things, and I think they are going after YOLO for the wrong reasons. They haven't responded to reasons why YOLO might be guild-scum as opposed to ghost-scum, and this in particular:
BoomFrog wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:FOS Madge
...
Bard and bessie for their obviously scummy posts I quoted, though Bard in particular has been acting like scum for a while now that I think about it.

Here's who you don't lynch: GoP, LaserGuy, BoomFrog, dimochka, SDK, plytho, SirG in order of innocence in my opinion.

Why would you say to lynch Bessie but not SDK? Have you paid any attention to the thread at all? SDK stands by his claim that Bessie is almost certainly town. Do you think SDK is making a mistake but is still town?


I had already pointed out in thread that SDK had pulled back a bit on the confirmation, so there was wiggle room there (I think it's cleared up now). I feel like this is pot calling the kettle black, as Boomfrog is not paying attention to some things.
At the time SDK has said he was still fairly certain Bessie was town. He's back peddled more since then which really pings me, but that's a separate topic. At the time and really even now I think it's ridiculous to consider lynching Bessie before SDK.

Unfortunately, I agree with you that I voted YOLO for the wrong reasons. I was going for one of those classic BoomFrog style, pick wagon to push and see if I can catch any scum jumping on. I agree YOLO's probably not ghost faction, but it really doesn't make sense for him to make that mistake as guild mafia either. If he's in a 3-man and now two-man mafia he's got to be well aware that there is a second faction. If he was indy he would have claimed indy. It's possible he is ghost SK and forgot that people were still assuming a second faction instead of SK. Okay, I'm going to try and channel YOLOness here:

town!YOLO: Shakespeare is fun, thee thou forthwith! blah blah blah, swag vote for pressure. Wow dude's crumbling. SDK presents madge, sounds ligit, but I like my gut read better. Dude's scum. D2, blah blah too much flavor. Shakespear's confusing. Lynch flipped scum lets lynch the off-wagoners. Oh right there's two scum teams, whatever. Blah blah, I'm not reading all that. OH shit I'm on the block, YOLO mode activated.

Guild!YOLO: Shakespeare is fun, thee thou forthwith! ugg, I'm mates with plytho and dethstalker, w/e I can win this solo. SWAG vote stalker, put some distance between us. Wow, dude's crumbling, w/e better just let it ride. SDK proposes madge, no I can't lose my credit here. Dude just roll over and die for me. Night chat: plytho just do what your doing we got this. Kill sabrar because they'll focus JimBob. D2 alright, JimBob's dead, go after the off-wagon. Oh right, the other scum team.

Okay yeah, that second scenario doesn't make sense. Guild YOLO would have noticed the second kill in flavor if he was killing sabrar to push the jimbob angle. YOLO clearly didn't read the D2 start flavor. Okay, actually, I just convinced myself back. YOLO didn't read the D2 start flavor but did know that dethstalker was scum. He was planning his reaction during the night and just posted that without wading through the shakespear flavor. I don't know why he killed Sabrar but his brain fart on the second scum team makes sense now.

Let it ride. Goodnight, it's past my bedtime, again.

If YOLO is town and I'm dead lynch SDK :wink:
If YOLO is scum then his mate(s) are among plytho, SirGabreal and Dimochka but probably not dim because dim is probably town.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Madge » Thu May 25, 2017 6:04 am UTC

Spoilered for traffic talk.
Spoiler:
Madge wrote:So are you in the traffic biz????????? It's definitely a cool idea. During peak we have a few intersections that are all linked together, so it's the sort of thing you might try with them - but during peak you're probably not all going at full speed anyway and the phasing is still adaptive so yeah... And during, like, night-time when it's full-on off-peak, we have the primary phase on solid green so the speed you travel is irrelevant.

Good for systems where it works no doubt.


plytho wrote:I am in the traffic biz, well, I'm on the government side of it. Mostly into highway technology.

I'm in the government too, project development (basically, scoping and preliminary investigations, project management for concept designs) for small projects ($1million-$10million).

I'm interested in technology - ITS and all that - but it is not my main area of expertise.


Fortunately I'm feeling about as bad as yesterday so there's no actual worry about my health - if I manage to not be dramatic about an illness that's a time to be worried for me.

In an attempt to be a townie with a vote on, here we go:

Vote: SirGabriel

YOLOSWAG is my second.

Also, I just realised: since I made a claim, I should probably mention I targeted SDK last night, so it may be the case that SDK is untargetable or was jailed last night. SDK, feel free to confirm, deny, or ignore.

I think if we trust SDK we shouldn't lynch bessie. Whether we trust SDK is debatable. If he claims that his trust of Bessie is PM-related and not read related - and it seems he does - we should trust that.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Madge » Thu May 25, 2017 6:08 am UTC

EBWOP

Just realised I said "we should trust that" which seems mighty.... "putting a lot of faith into SDK" - so to elaborate, what I mean by that is that I doubt SDK would explicitly lie as town about getting information from a PM when it was actually from a read. So the possibilities for SDK in my mind are {SDK saw something in his PM that gives bessie points} or {SDK is some flavour of scum and lying}. The "sdk is town lying" thing is not likely imo

Also upon reflection I think YOLO's claim is scummy AF. Roleblocker is very easy for scum to fake and targeting a dead townie is super convenient. Do you have a good explanation for why you chose jimbnob?

unvote

vote: yoloswag
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby LaserGuy » Thu May 25, 2017 7:07 am UTC

DGames | Bard wrote:@Laserguy - My King! I'm not really a fan of Sir Yoloswag's play style; I can't say I get his suspicions of me this game because he hasn't really explained them to me. He kinda asserts himself in a way that isn't very transparent with his intentions, i.e. he says my posts are "disgusting," but he doesn't say what is "disgusting" about them. Another example that comes to mind is when he says I should be in the lynch pool, but doesn't really go in depth with the why. I'm not sure how he expects me to trust him in this type of situation. On that note, I wonder how he feels about me going for Gopher as a priority before putting him further on the chopping block.


Who in your mind do you see as probable scummates for YOLO? What about Gopher?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby mpolo » Thu May 25, 2017 7:24 am UTC

Votals:

Gopher of Pern (3): SirGabriel, plytho, DGames | Bard
Sabrar (1): #HBC | YOLOSWAG
SDK (1): LaserGuy
#HBC | YOLOSWAG (5): Sabrar, BoomFrog, SDK, Gopher of Pern, Madge

Three people not voting (bessie, dimochka, kalira). I just found out that I won't be here at deadline. I could end the day one hour earlier, or 3-4 hours later than planned. So I guess 3-4 hours later. Remember that D1 posting is permitted up until I call the day. If you totally over-hammer somebody with 9 or 10 votes, you can assume that it's already night.
Last edited by mpolo on Thu May 25, 2017 7:46 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 25, 2017 7:38 am UTC

@LaserGuy: we have two wagons. Your vote on SDK won't tell us anything. Please switch to Gopher of Pern or YOLOSWAG or explain why you don't want to.

mpolo wrote:Four people not voting.
Is that correct? I count 3 (bessie, dimochka, kalira)

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby mpolo » Thu May 25, 2017 7:46 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:@LaserGuy: we have two wagons. Your vote on SDK won't tell us anything. Please switch to Gopher of Pern or YOLOSWAG or explain why you don't want to.

mpolo wrote:Four people not voting.
Is that correct? I count 3 (bessie, dimochka, kalira)

Corrected.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby LaserGuy » Thu May 25, 2017 7:47 am UTC

[quote="Sabrar"]@LaserGuy: we have two wagons. Your vote on SDK won't tell us anything. Please switch to Gopher of Pern or YOLOSWAG or explain why you don't want to.

Fine. One question for you first. Which scumteam do you think YOLO is on?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby bessie » Thu May 25, 2017 7:50 am UTC

@Madge, plytho (off topic)
Spoiler:
Madge I have a question for you about traffic lights but I don’t want to take up any time typing it out or take your time answering with deadline so close. If I die I’ll pm it to you or if plytho is interested in hearing it we’ll include him or move it to the Gojoe thread which we should probably just do anyway.

SDK wrote:
bessie wrote:
SDK wrote:Are you asking this because bessie is town? Because she is. Good to know that someone else got that confirmation in their role PM too.
He could have later claimed that this was one of his antics, but he didn’t. He doubled down.

Did you intentionally wait to comment on it until after I had doubled down? Why?
Why does this keep coming up? I already explained this here. Summary, all times are bessie (PDT) time:

5/11 Thursday, game starts earlier than I expected. Made courtesy post explaining I worked an 11 hour day and was on the way to the airport to pick up my mother-in-law. I was busy. I was tired. I was getting up at 5:30 am the next day.
5/12 Friday, worked another 11 hour day, reading to catch up, told DethStalker about the 5 posts, greeted Bard, addressed my vote on Gopher of Pern and accused him of role fishing, topics I could tackle quickly. I didn’t have a lot of time because guest wanted to go out to dinner. Put off addressing SDK’s claim because it would take a bit longer, but no worries, there would be plenty of time after dinner. Went out, drank too much, fell asleep. Sorry I thought I would be back but I wasn’t.
5/13 Saturday, first thing in the morning 8:00am, addressed SDK’s claim. Second post replied to Sabrar, thoughts on DethStalker. Went out, morning appointment. Came home. Made a few quick comments. Had to leave because taking house guest to Disneyland. Came home and after midnight made very long post and totally caught up on the entire thread.

So can we please put to rest this accusation that I was avoiding addressing SDK’s claim? I got to it in my fourth post, and my first comprehensive game post.

SDK wrote:Bessie, do you think LaserGuy is scum?
Yes.

kalira wrote:BoomFrog mentions that (Znirk and) Dethstalker should be the mod’s business, and that they should be replaced. Znirk was definitely in the lurker category, but BF should well know that a mod is not going to replace a player who is participating -- caveats probably always apply, but pretty much, if they’re playing, whether good, bad, or indifferent, no replacement. Hell, we’ve even had at least one game where a player was participating one Day only in that he talked to the mod through PM to say he was still around and posted pretty much nothing in thread, and he wasn’t modkilled (I can’t remember who or which game, but it sticks in my memory).
I want to say that was Djehytynakht but I can’t remember which game (Secret Santa 2015?). Maybe Deva will see this and put it in the Gojoe thread for us later. And yes, I agree, there was no justification for mpolo to replace DethStalker (I had been trying to dispute Madge on this here and here but we’re past that now).

town
bessie
SirGabriel
dimochka
BoomFrog
SDK
plytho
Sabrar
kalira
Madge
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
Gopher of Pern
DGames | Bard
LaserGuy
Scum

Ninja'd by Sabrar and LaserGuy. Why is it important that everyone be on one of the two wagons?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 25, 2017 7:58 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Fine. One question for you first. Which scumteam do you think YOLO is on?
I think he is buddies with DethStalker. Just a hunch.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 25, 2017 8:10 am UTC

bessie wrote:Why is it important that everyone be on one of the two wagons?
Because wagons will get analyzed to death later and it is convenient for scum to stay away from them.

Suppose Madge doesn't make that follow-up post. She votes for SirGabriel but notes that YOLOSWAG would be second. Things accomplished if she's scum:
- has a vote down at the end of the day
- no need to fret that SirGabriel will flip Town as he is probably not getting lynched today
- avoids building up wagon on scum-buddy, hoping that events will turn the tide. Can change to counter-wagon later if needed.
- in case YOLOSWAG is Town attention won't be on her

Of course all of the above became null with the EBWOP.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu May 25, 2017 8:28 am UTC

Still, Sabrar, if one does not think either player is scum, why should they vote for them? It's more important for the lurkers to pick a side, but laserguy has provided plenty, so I do not think they need to have a vote on one of the wagons. The main reason I'm voting for YOLO is to protect myself. The fact that a person is NOT on a wagon is still informative.

Bessie, your scummy reads seem to be a bit OMGUS. Do you actually believe myself and laserguy to be scummy? Why?

BoomFrog wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote: I'm still not convinved about Boomfrog. Still misses things, and I think they are going after YOLO for the wrong reasons. They haven't responded to reasons why YOLO might be guild-scum as opposed to ghost-scum, and this in particular:
BoomFrog wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:FOS Madge
...
Bard and bessie for their obviously scummy posts I quoted, though Bard in particular has been acting like scum for a while now that I think about it.

Here's who you don't lynch: GoP, LaserGuy, BoomFrog, dimochka, SDK, plytho, SirG in order of innocence in my opinion.

Why would you say to lynch Bessie but not SDK? Have you paid any attention to the thread at all? SDK stands by his claim that Bessie is almost certainly town. Do you think SDK is making a mistake but is still town?


I had already pointed out in thread that SDK had pulled back a bit on the confirmation, so there was wiggle room there (I think it's cleared up now). I feel like this is pot calling the kettle black, as Boomfrog is not paying attention to some things.
At the time SDK has said he was still fairly certain Bessie was town. He's back peddled more since then which really pings me, but that's a separate topic. At the time and really even now I think it's ridiculous to consider lynching Bessie before SDK.


I think it's a bit short sighted. According to your logic, if SDK is town, bessie is town. Hence, if bessie is scum, SDK must be scum.

So, if we lynch SDK, and SDK is scum, we have no idea about bessie, but if SDK is town, we know bessie is town.
If we lynch bessie, and bessie is town, we have no idea about SDK, but if bessie is scum, we know SDK is scum.

Why would lynching SDK be the better option? If he's scum, yay, but we have no additional information. If he's town, bessie is town, but likely gets killed off by scum, because she will be confirmed town. If we lynch bessie, and she is scum, we have another scum ready to lynch. If she is town, it's just a mislynch, but says nothing to SDK, so if he is town, he might still be alive to help us.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu May 25, 2017 8:31 am UTC

EBWOP - I hit submit instead of preview!

With that logic, it seems like we get more reward out of lynching bessie, and less drawbacks if its a mislynch, than lynching SDK.

I'm not a fan of Madge's claim, or her voting strategy. But, I'm not comfortable with lynching her today, due to RL issues, but all bets are off tomorrow.
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LaserGuy
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby LaserGuy » Thu May 25, 2017 8:32 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Fine. One question for you first. Which scumteam do you think YOLO is on?


I think he is buddies with DethStalker. Just a hunch.


And why do you think the roleblocker would be on the same team as the person with roleblock immunity?

@BoomFrog, same question.

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Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act II is going to need some adjustments

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 25, 2017 8:34 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:Still, Sabrar, if one does not think either player is scum, why should they vote for them?
Sabrar wrote:@LaserGuy: we have two wagons. Your vote on SDK won't tell us anything. Please switch to Gopher of Pern or YOLOSWAG or explain why you don't want to.


LaserGuy wrote:And why do you think the roleblocker would be on the same team as the person with roleblock immunity?
1. Because there are duplicate roles.
2. Because YOLOSWAG is lying about being RB.
Take your pick.


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