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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:52 pm UTC

Frozenflame, give me a final reads list.

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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:55 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I don't get it. I think you'd be a lot easier to lynch if you were town.


Why is that?

Because scum would be reluctantly ready to accept my case like they did with JimBob. The fact that FF hasn't sided with me on plytho yet but plytho is willing to switch to FF is really interesting.


Your case on me is pretty bad though and FF has had a strong town read on me all game.

I'm so annoyed by your 'case' on me. I really want to think you're town trying to find scum but that's just bad.

You go from saying this:
BoomFrog wrote:I started this post with the intention of proving EGW was forced back onto the moody wagon, but he barely was. Sabrar did pressure him, but not that much. Sabrar and EGW do loook really good here. Plytho only moves after it's obvious that moody is going down.
To your next post saying:
BoomFrog wrote:Buddies are [EGW] and Sabrar, but on an individual level I'm most confident in him out of you three. Laser and mpolo are possibilities, with a very small chance of Sabrar+Madge.


Pretending like it's new insight that I only voted moody once it was obvious he was going to be the lynch means you haven't been paying attention since I've been very open about not caring whom of {moody, Red Ryu, Gamma Emerald} would be lynched as long as it was one of them.

BoomFrog wrote:Plytho talks about moody being scummy but doesn't move his vote off Red here.
That's me answering maven's question why people are finding moody scummy.

I get that it's hard to find scum but I expect better from you, BoomFrog.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:56 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Holy shit dude, this sauce is so weak it can't get out bed in the morning. You know bessie is virtually confirmed town right? And this EGW stuff is actually evidence that EGW is town.


Not trying to push bessie here. Like I said, I'm just trying to throw out my observations so that people can have some townie perspective on older content involving known scums to think about once I flip. I understand bessie is likely confirmed town but she's certainly not a full clear and it doesn't hurt to point out this kind of stuff incase it becomes evident that bessie is a godfather or some other similar basis for doubting the current basis for her clear.

Also I agree with you that the EGW/H_A interactions can also be interpreted to make EGW look better. Again, my H_A focused posts wasn't meant to revolutionize people's reads or be the start of a wagon on EGW/bessie/sabrar right before deadline. Just pointing out shit that seemed odd to me, thats all

FrozenFlame wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:I'm all for reading subtle intent into off-hand comments, and I agree with the conclusion you're implying here. H_a wouldn't be bold enough to prop two scumbuddies together, and his propping of EGW is more blatant, and he also slides in that subtle seed of doubt on EGW. How did you get from here to EGW and H_A being mates?

Also, what's your read of plytho? You do realize with less then 12 hours to deadline the lynch is going to be me, you or plytho right?
See this is the kind of discussion/feedback I was hoping to provoke. I don't have the meta knowledge to know if H_A would be bold enough to do blatant double scummate propping up so early in the game. I haven't in any way concluded definitively that H_A and EGW are mates. Just pointing out that in a world where H_A is so bold, this would be a great connection to make given the limited content of the slot. I tend to agree thought that the more likely scenario is that EGW and H_A are not mates and he was as you say, planting a seed a paranoia for anyone who may be town reading EGW.

As for my read on plytho, I thought the slot was pretty townie for most of the game but I feel like I may have been town reading him more based on the fact that I agreed with a lot of what he was saying and his playstyle more than anything. Basically with both plytho and sabrar I feel like I've given them a town pass all game just for being generally productive slots that have been actively involved and offering understandable content. They both are beginning to remind me of SDK from Dark Tower who I gave a free town pass all game just for being an overall solid player, and I'm afraid I've been doing the same here. Zen's flip also pushed sabrar more into scummy territory for me because a lot of the Sabrar/Zen head butting gave me really strong TvS vibes and though originally I thought Zen leaned scummier, his town flip leaves Sabrar holding the bag for that TvS feel I had.

Basically plytho and sabrar have been town leans I've had all game that have been slowly degrading over time for me toward neutral/scummy territory while your slot has kind of done the opposite. Your recent content has been trending townie for me which is why Im both frustrated and resigned at this point seeing everyone's lynchpool is basically you/me/RR which at this point Im inclined to believe is a completely town pool...

Evil George Washington wrote:I do think Red Ryu is scum upon Frozen Flame scum.

Dude cmon how are you still on this koolaid? I could totally understand if you were convinced one of us was scum and the other was getting the wool pulled over his eyes by the scum player but smfh if you legitimately believe RR and I could be buddies. We would deserve an award for how shitty our scum play has been if that were the case. There is absolutely no chance both of us make it to endgame, and that would HAVE to be our strategy for an all in chainsaw defend each other as buddies till the end strategy to work. If we're buddies we're throwing the fucking game dude. You've played with both of us more than enough to know that we aren't both scum at minimum. You're either just being lazy and WANT to believe we're both scum because you can figure out who else is by PoE or you're being insanely dense. Or you're just scum which I think isn't particularly likely but it's shit like this that makes me seriously doubt your towniness

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby mpolo » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:00 pm UTC

This is my last post in this day cycle -- unless I get insomnia or something. I haven't seen a lot of major change here. My power switches two people's positions, thus meaning that actions targeted at one hit the other. I think everyone understood that, but just to make assurance double sure…
Image <-- Evil experiment

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:01 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:1.) Can you point me to another player who you somewhat contemporaneously asked for a reads with but with similar limiting language i.e. "you don't have to provide a full list" or something similar that peels back the weight of your request? I'm not saying there was NO reason for you to acknowledge that a full reads list might have been a big ask for so early in the game. What I am saying is that this looks like special treatment toward H_A, EVEN IF there was reason for it. That reasoning, though valid, could have been a convenient cover for said special treatment. Show me that you treated others similarly in that same period of the game and then my observation here obviously carries less weight.

2.) Re: the prose, I'm not saying that this is "forced" or "unnatural" language for you as I'm sure you're more than capable of writing in more flowery prose. My observation here is that I haven't seen you martial that type of writing style anywhere else in this game, which made it stand out to me. But again, I've been terrible this game in plenty of ways, reading with superb attention to detail being one of those, so it's very possible I've missed you doing this at another point this game. Again, point me to it and I'll readily accept that I'm exceptionalizing what is actually unexceptional content

Evil George Washington wrote:Frozen Flame:

1. At the top of my head I don't think so.
2. Don't remember if I did anywhere else.


Doesn't this kind of prove my point that these are exceptional instances that I'm pointing out? You can explain away why you might have chosen to interact in this way but the fact remains that this really is pretty clear special treatment for H_A that no one else in the game received

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:05 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:I'm all for reading subtle intent into off-hand comments, and I agree with the conclusion you're implying here. H_a wouldn't be bold enough to prop two scumbuddies together, and his propping of EGW is more blatant, and he also slides in that subtle seed of doubt on EGW. How did you get from here to EGW and H_A being mates?

Also, what's your read of plytho? You do realize with less then 12 hours to deadline the lynch is going to be me, you or plytho right?

See this is the kind of discussion/feedback I was hoping to provoke. I don't have the meta knowledge to know if H_A would be bold enough to do blatant double scummate propping up so early in the game. I haven't in any way concluded definitively that H_A and EGW are mates. Just pointing out that in a world where H_A is so bold, this would be a great connection to make given the limited content of the slot. I tend to agree thought that the more likely scenario is that EGW and H_A are not mates and he was as you say, planting a seed a paranoia for anyone who may be town reading EGW.

As for my read on plytho, I thought the slot was pretty townie for most of the game but I feel like I may have been town reading him more based on the fact that I agreed with a lot of what he was saying and his playstyle more than anything. Basically with both plytho and sabrar I feel like I've given them a town pass all game just for being generally productive slots that have been actively involved and offering understandable content. They both are beginning to remind me of SDK from Dark Tower who I gave a free town pass all game just for being an overall solid player, and I'm afraid I've been doing the same here. Zen's flip also pushed sabrar more into scummy territory for me because a lot of the Sabrar/Zen head butting gave me really strong TvS vibes and though originally I thought Zen leaned scummier, his town flip leaves Sabrar holding the bag for that TvS feel I had.

Basically plytho and sabrar have been town leans I've had all game that have been slowly degrading over time for me toward neutral/scummy territory while your slot has kind of done the opposite. Your recent content has been trending townie for me which is why Im both frustrated and resigned at this point seeing everyone's lynchpool is basically you/me/RR which at this point Im inclined to believe is a completely town pool...


^^^^^^ This was my intended response to boomfrogs earlier post @ me, fucked up the formatting in previous post and put my new content in quote accidentally

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:10 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:Doesn't this kind of prove my point that these are exceptional instances that I'm pointing out? You can explain away why you might have chosen to interact in this way but the fact remains that this really is pretty clear special treatment for H_A that no one else in the game received


I find the artistic prose point null. What I did with HA was pro-town because it shifted conversation about voting to reads. He was neutral to me at that point, so I had no reason to act aggressively towards him. It was as you said, a spontaneous conversation that he initiated.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:16 pm UTC

Wait, did mpolo leave without voting?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:19 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:Dude cmon how are you still on this koolaid? I could totally understand if you were convinced one of us was scum and the other was getting the wool pulled over his eyes by the scum player but smfh if you legitimately believe RR and I could be buddies. We would deserve an award for how shitty our scum play has been if that were the case. There is absolutely no chance both of us make it to endgame, and that would HAVE to be our strategy for an all in chainsaw defend each other as buddies till the end strategy to work. If we're buddies we're throwing the fucking game dude. You've played with both of us more than enough to know that we aren't both scum at minimum. You're either just being lazy and WANT to believe we're both scum because you can figure out who else is by PoE or you're being insanely dense. Or you're just scum which I think isn't particularly likely but it's shit like this that makes me seriously doubt your towniness


That's true, I have played with both of you long enough. I don't know if you know, but I was scum with Ryu and Marshy in Circus Mafia. We were town reading each other while not really doing much. Eventually we were all POE'd out of there. In Mafia Sleep Over Finale you/Gheb were being very lurky and behind the scenes, kind of what you are doing here. I also agree with Laser that your play doesn't line up with your role. I have yet to see that aggressive town play. I also don't see you say anything about my play here mirroring that of our previous game. You haven't really stated a *read* on me at all, just the interaction between HA and myself, and you 'I want to believe you are town but get off this FF RYU stuff', that's it. Our previous game I felt some town vibes from you. You were pushing Tammy even though you were wrong.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:23 pm UTC

FrozenFlame you never answered why you thought I was in Dark Tower.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:27 pm UTC

Boom I want you to hammer when you have the latest opportunity to. I'd prefer to see more of Bessie's thoughts before we end him, but we'll have twilight as well to give us a cushion. Otherwise, I think we have had enough discussion and interactions around Frozen. He needs to give his final reads list.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:29 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I'm all for reading subtle intent into off-hand comments, and I agree with the conclusion you're implying here. H_a wouldn't be bold enough to prop two scumbuddies together, and his propping of EGW is more blatant, and he also slides in that subtle seed of doubt on EGW. How did you get from here to EGW and H_A being mates?

Also, what's your read of plytho? You do realize with less then 12 hours to deadline the lynch is going to be me, you or plytho right?

See this is the kind of discussion/feedback I was hoping to provoke. I don't have the meta knowledge to know if H_A would be bold enough to do blatant double scummate propping up so early in the game. I haven't in any way concluded definitively that H_A and EGW are mates. Just pointing out that in a world where H_A is so bold, this would be a great connection to make given the limited content of the slot. I tend to agree thought that the more likely scenario is that EGW and H_A are not mates and he was as you say, planting a seed a paranoia for anyone who may be town reading EGW.

As for my read on plytho, I thought the slot was pretty townie for most of the game but I feel like I may have been town reading him more based on the fact that I agreed with a lot of what he was saying and his playstyle more than anything. Basically with both plytho and sabrar I feel like I've given them a town pass all game just for being generally productive slots that have been actively involved and offering understandable content. They both are beginning to remind me of SDK from Dark Tower who I gave a free town pass all game just for being an overall solid player, and I'm afraid I've been doing the same here. Zen's flip also pushed sabrar more into scummy territory for me because a lot of the Sabrar/Zen head butting gave me really strong TvS vibes and though originally I thought Zen leaned scummier, his town flip leaves Sabrar holding the bag for that TvS feel I had.

Basically plytho and sabrar have been town leans I've had all game that have been slowly degrading over time for me toward neutral/scummy territory while your slot has kind of done the opposite. Your recent content has been trending townie for me which is why Im both frustrated and resigned at this point seeing everyone's lynchpool is basically you/me/RR which at this point Im inclined to believe is a completely town pool...


^^^^^^ This was my intended response to boomfrogs earlier post @ me, fucked up the formatting in previous post and put my new content in quote accidentally

Yes, yes, exactly this. To misquote the joker, "when everyone's townie, the towniest are the scum.". Vote plytho with me?

@EGW: I'll be on before deadline. I'll set an alarm. Deadline is 7.5 hours from now, correct? Ideally Bessie should ping me, since I won't have time to read up on the thread between now and then.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:33 pm UTC

That is correct.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:40 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Wait, did mpolo leave without voting?


Yes. I'm not sure if he's worried how hammering would look, or if he's not worried about securing a lynch on frozen. What do you think?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:43 pm UTC

Hammering would look terrible (if FrozenFlame flips town) but I think the best way for mpolo to act would be to ask someone who'll be online at deadline to unvote so he can take their place.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:59 pm UTC

Votals 4.3
Madge (2): Frozenflame, #HBC | Red Ryu
BoomFrog (1): Bessie
plytho (1): BoomFrog
Frozenflame (5): Madge, EGW, Sabrar, plytho, LaserGuy
Not Voting (1): mpolo

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch! Deadline is Monday, October 16 at 11:59:59 PM EST!

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:11 pm UTC

FrozenFlame and Red Ryu, please pick a better target than Madge. She's in jail and can't perform the night kill. Lynch her buddies first.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:18 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:

Yes, yes, exactly this. To misquote the joker, "when everyone's townie, the towniest are the scum.". Vote plytho with me?

I'll be around for about two more hours. If you intend to lynch me please do it to my face :wink:
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:23 pm UTC

Current reads still pending what re-reading I want to try to do before we hit deadline:

Red Ryu: Town. Doubt he sticks his neck out the way his has been for me if he's scum, and I was right about this when I said the same about jimbob. I feel like we're in similar positions, both playing less than optimally, not so active, all around leaving a lot to be desired, but we're both getting it stuck to us and feel like that push is largely being stoked by scum influence. Maybe he's scum pulling wool over my eyes to get me as a staunch supporter or something, but I doubt the utility of that. My word hasn't counted for much in this game and he made himself look way worse by defending me than he will look for being right about me being town. Basically I just don't see any meaningful payoff for scumRyu white knighting me. On top of that he protected me N1 which is a very fitting move for a SWF player playing with me who thinks I could be town.

Evil George Washington: Town lean but have some doubts. You already know what bothers me about you this game EGW. But I think overall your play generally trends town and boomfrog makes some strong points about how your early interactions with H_A can actually paint you in a pretty strong light. I'm not quite so convinced theyre as townie indicative as BF might think but still, he has a point.

BoomFrog: Had a scum read on this slot most of the game until recently. His latest posts actually reflect some genuine scumhunting intent IMO. He's engaging with points he could probably ignore if he wanted to and someone else would probably get lynched over him. Maybe he's just a strong player under pressure but this slot is trending upward for me as of right now

Sabrar: Feels more and more to me like SDK from Dark Tower. Overall strong presence and performance all game but also nothing breathtakingly townie either. I get the vibe lately that Sabrar is more interested in debunking those who disagree with him and their credibility than actually hunting scum. He feels like he's pushing an agenda and only cares about shutting down opposition or anything that might undermine momentum that he favors. I'm probably feeling this particularly strongly because we've been butting heads this day phase quite a bit but still, I don't feel like he cares whether I'm town or not. He just wants to cut me down, get people to disregard what I'm saying, and come out with the "stronger" argument and every issue he engages with. Like he's more concerned with maintaining a pristine argumentative paper trail and defending his actions/perspectives than actually finding out who's good but misguided versus scummy and intentionally spreading FUD. As I've previously stated I think Sabrar v. Zen always felt TvS so given Zen townflip my gut is screaming at me to not trust Sabrar. But yeah generally I just feel like Sab has been more interested lately in finding something to hang his hat on and then move on then actually meaningfully engage with what those who disagree with him are saying.

Bessie: No substantial scum pings from her all game as far as I can tell but I'll admit that I struggle to read bessie. Wasn't able to do it in DT and haven't had any better luck here. Kind of glad she's pseudo confirmed to remove her as a substantial question mark but beyond that I don't have much to offer

LaserGuy: Deep down part of me wants to believe that scum team rolled largely apathetic players the generally low activity of the scum team demotivated multiple players from doing much of anything. Basically this leads me to believe that H_A and D_H were scumbuddies and H_A's falloff in activity was partly in response to DH literally not even playing and moody also not being a particularly high activity presence. Kind of a stretch but idk, that's just kind of what I feel. LaserGuy has had ups and downs IMO but I've definitely found myself wanting to lynch this slot more often than wanting to keep him in the non-plays list. Somewhat similarly to Sabrar, I feel like Laserguy often is more interested in pushing an agenda than actually scumhunting and trying to figure out if those who oppose his idea/reads are scummy or just townies interpreting things differently.

plytho: Been giving this slot a town pass pretty much all game for just having generally solid presence and making a lot of observations that I tended to agree with. Not really good reasons to give someone a town pass though as I've been bitten in the ass plenty for giving scummies passes just because theyre playing in a way that I like. I feel like if Sabrar is scum plytho is probably with him and vice versa. Definitely unsure on this slot though

Madge: Shitty claim, generally unhelpful as far as scumhunting is concerned as hypocritical as that may sound, and generally not a slot I think has any business making it to end game. The whole recent outburst re: being referred to as a "slot" is so bizarre to me. The whole point of referring to players as "slots" is to serve as a reminder that when we're talking about each other in these games nothing we say is personal. Like, we ARE all just players in a game. We ARE our slots. Just because someone is scum doesn't mean they're a bad person. It's just that their slot is a bad one, so they have to be bad... Like all of our evaluations are IMPERSONAL hence referring to other players in an impersonal way as a way to signal that negative evaluations of a player go to that players in-game play and behavior, not who they are as a person. Kind of mindblowing to me that someone would interpret that as someone trying to dehumanize the player behind the forum account lol.... I honestly don't get it and it comes off extremely defensive and frankly as a bit insecure but that's not really relevant here I guess. Either way just more of a reason to not let this slot survive to be a decider in endgame because the slot presents as a serious liability in endgame if town and will be hard to read clearly and identify as scum if the slot is in fact scum

mpolo: Probably my truest neutral read of the entire game. Been coasting all game but everyone seems to be mostly ok with that because his early claim was so town telling? Idk, personally I've felt like this slot should've gone awhile ago. Definitely not a viable endgame contender. Slightly better contributions and content than madge but frankly not a whole lot to distinguish the slots IMO

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:25 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:

Yes, yes, exactly this. To misquote the joker, "when everyone's townie, the towniest are the scum.". Vote plytho with me?

I'll be around for about two more hours. If you intend to lynch me please do it to my face :wink:

I can't exactly vote you harder... :P
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:25 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Something that hasn’t been addressed but has me slightly worried: what kind of ability could a wraith have?


plytho, when did it occur to you that moody's power was both "Wraith" and "Know-It-All"?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:40 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:Something that hasn’t been addressed but has me slightly worried: what kind of ability could a wraith have?


plytho, when did it occur to you that moody's power was both "Wraith" and "Know-It-All"?


...and @Sabrar, why weren't you curious that plytho interpreted it this way when just about everyone else (AFAIK) believed that you had acquired know-it-all?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:50 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:Something that hasn’t been addressed but has me slightly worried: what kind of ability could a wraith have?


plytho, when did it occur to you that moody's power was both "Wraith" and "Know-It-All"?
Right about here. I can make a good guess at what a know-it-all does. I couldn't really imagine what kind of ability a wraith would have and I feared some power that would allow moody to continue playing after he died (by staying in scum chat for example).
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:52 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:Something that hasn’t been addressed but has me slightly worried: what kind of ability could a wraith have?


plytho, when did it occur to you that moody's power was both "Wraith" and "Know-It-All"?
Right about here. I can make a good guess at what a know-it-all does. I couldn't really imagine what kind of ability a wraith would have and I feared some power that would allow moody to continue playing after he died (by staying in scum chat for example).


Why did you think "Know-It-All" and "Wraith" were separate powers?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:52 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:

Yes, yes, exactly this. To misquote the joker, "when everyone's townie, the towniest are the scum.". Vote plytho with me?

I'll be around for about two more hours. If you intend to lynch me please do it to my face :wink:

I can't exactly vote you harder... :P
That's why I included FrozenFlame in the quote.

I had a great night's sleep last night but I fear this night will be pretty bad :(
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:55 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:Doesn't this kind of prove my point that these are exceptional instances that I'm pointing out? You can explain away why you might have chosen to interact in this way but the fact remains that this really is pretty clear special treatment for H_A that no one else in the game received


I find the artistic prose point null. What I did with HA was pro-town because it shifted conversation about voting to reads. He was neutral to me at that point, so I had no reason to act aggressively towards him. It was as you said, a spontaneous conversation that he initiated.
Why does it matter that he initiated the interaction? You're the one who chose to respond the way you did didn't you? And to even respond at all? The fact that both you AND sabrar have thrown this "He initiated it!" line back at me gives me serious chills

Evil George Washington wrote:FrozenFlame you never answered why you thought I was in Dark Tower.
I was in a rush making that post and literally just misremembered, don't know what else you want me to say. I played Dark Tower and the mafiascum game that we also played with SWF folks back to back and you being in the mafiscum game just got blended into my memories of the playlist from DT. Could have sworn I already answered this but if I actually forgot I apologize

Evil George Washington wrote:That's true, I have played with both of you long enough. I don't know if you know, but I was scum with Ryu and Marshy in Circus Mafia. We were town reading each other while not really doing much. Eventually we were all POE'd out of there. In Mafia Sleep Over Finale you/Gheb were being very lurky and behind the scenes, kind of what you are doing here. I also agree with Laser that your play doesn't line up with your role. I have yet to see that aggressive town play. I also don't see you say anything about my play here mirroring that of our previous game. You haven't really stated a *read* on me at all, just the interaction between HA and myself, and you 'I want to believe you are town but get off this FF RYU stuff', that's it. Our previous game I felt some town vibes from you. You were pushing Tammy even though you were wrong.
Ok but just because you marshy and RR did a full townread all in strategy as scum doesn't mean that I would be incline to do something similar. But you're fair to point out that mutual town reading scum buddies isnt exactly out of the question in SWF meta. My point is more that the WAY RR and I are mutually town reading each other isn't subtle at all, nor is it likely to pay off. I'm sure you marshy and RR went into the mutual buddying strategy while none of you were under pressure and your mutual town reads had some appreciable payoff in keeping momentum off of each slot. Here, we're both drowning and grabbing on to one another to stay afloat which obviously doesn't have any promising payoff considering neither of us is likely to survive much longer. Its not JUST the buddying, but the TIMING and EXPECTED PAYOUT of that buddying in the context of the time in which that buddying emerged that is more illustrative here.

As for me being scum before and lurking, yeah I've absolutely done that. I could probably point you to many many more games where I've done it as town. Me being an inactive piece of shit is about as non alignment indicative as it gets.

I've also already admitted that I haven't been playing my role optimally at all. I literally said this in the same post that I claimed. I never claimed that my role claim was more likely to be true because I've been playing to my role so well. I haven't, I know this. I even explained why I softclaimed D3 to try to draw the NK by hinting at having a strong power that hadn't gone off yet by saying I was basically squandering my power.

With all this said, again, I'm not expecting you to townread me. Not by a long shot. What I am saying is that if part of your scum read on me is that you think RR and I are scumbuddies, you're just plain wrong. It's perfectly reasonable to think there's scum between us. But both of us being scum is absolutely ludicrous IMO. I'm perfectly willing to admit that RR may have been perfectly setting me up to white knight him so that he looks good when I flip town but there is literally no way that us chainsaw defending each other like this pays off in the longrun if we're scum.

plytho wrote:FrozenFlame and Red Ryu, please pick a better target than Madge. She's in jail and can't perform the night kill. Lynch her buddies first.
Do we know spak targetted madge or are we assuming sabrar is telling the truth re: picking up spaks ability but being unable to destroy the jail? If it's the latter I'd say this is far less certain than you may want to believe but your point still stands.

The question that remains is whether or not people will even consider going for anyone other than me? I could get behind a plytho/sabrar/mpolo push but I don't have much to back up any of those pushes other than what I've described in my reads post. Trying to review some stuff before deadline but idk what fruit that will bear

Unvote: Madge

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:56 pm UTC

I could get down with offing laserguy too tbh

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:56 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:Something that hasn’t been addressed but has me slightly worried: what kind of ability could a wraith have?


plytho, when did it occur to you that moody's power was both "Wraith" and "Know-It-All"?
Right about here. I can make a good guess at what a know-it-all does. I couldn't really imagine what kind of ability a wraith would have and I feared some power that would allow moody to continue playing after he died (by staying in scum chat for example).


Why did you think "Know-It-All" and "Wraith" were separate powers?
I don't know, it seems obvious. Until you asked this I hadn't considered it being a single power.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:59 pm UTC

Fuck it Vote: Plytho for now

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:08 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:
plytho wrote:FrozenFlame and Red Ryu, please pick a better target than Madge. She's in jail and can't perform the night kill. Lynch her buddies first.
Do we know spak targetted madge or are we assuming sabrar is telling the truth re: picking up spaks ability but being unable to destroy the jail? If it's the latter I'd say this is far less certain than you may want to believe but your point still stands.
Assuming Sabrar is telling the truth. The inability to destroy makes sense as megaman would be insanely powerful if he could keep every absorbed power (sorry bessie). And if you think Sabrar is scum with Madge it makes more sense to lynch him than Madge. Because him flipping scum tells you Madge is likely scum too and him flipping town tells you Madge is actually jailed.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:12 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:Fuck it Vote: Plytho for now
Ah, right in the face with what I almost read as "fuck Plytho" :D
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:23 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:Why does it matter that he initiated the interaction? You're the one who chose to respond the way you did didn't you? And to even respond at all? The fact that both you AND sabrar have thrown this "He initiated it!" line back at me gives me serious chills


If scum initiates, they can taint others and if they are weaker players, will try to buddy stronger town players to plant seeds of doubt. Town have the bliss of ignorance, so they have no real reason to refuse a response. It would be more of a problem if I ignored HA, because then it would show I wouldn't want to sort him. That is what I was doing with him.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:29 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:Ok but just because you marshy and RR did a full townread all in strategy as scum doesn't mean that I would be incline to do something similar. But you're fair to point out that mutual town reading scum buddies isnt exactly out of the question in SWF meta. My point is more that the WAY RR and I are mutually town reading each other isn't subtle at all, nor is it likely to pay off. I'm sure you marshy and RR went into the mutual buddying strategy while none of you were under pressure and your mutual town reads had some appreciable payoff in keeping momentum off of each slot. Here, we're both drowning and grabbing on to one another to stay afloat which obviously doesn't have any promising payoff considering neither of us is likely to survive much longer. Its not JUST the buddying, but the TIMING and EXPECTED PAYOUT of that buddying in the context of the time in which that buddying emerged that is more illustrative here.


Note that it wasn't our strategy per say, we just did it as our own thing. Marshy was very against it. Question is, why have you been lurking to this extent? Have you lost motivation, and if so, why? Why did you give an unprompted reads list in your game with LaserGuy, but it takes you this long to make one here? What do you think of Madge's recent vote? Why hint towards your role (lazy way to try to draw a nk) instead of trying to make up for it with content?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:29 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:Something that hasn’t been addressed but has me slightly worried: what kind of ability could a wraith have?


plytho, when did it occur to you that moody's power was both "Wraith" and "Know-It-All"?
Right about here. I can make a good guess at what a know-it-all does. I couldn't really imagine what kind of ability a wraith would have and I feared some power that would allow moody to continue playing after he died (by staying in scum chat for example).


Why did you think "Know-It-All" and "Wraith" were separate powers?
Why do you think it's one power and what kind of power do you think it is?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:38 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:Something that hasn’t been addressed but has me slightly worried: what kind of ability could a wraith have?


plytho, when did it occur to you that moody's power was both "Wraith" and "Know-It-All"?
Right about here. I can make a good guess at what a know-it-all does. I couldn't really imagine what kind of ability a wraith would have and I feared some power that would allow moody to continue playing after he died (by staying in scum chat for example).


Why did you think "Know-It-All" and "Wraith" were separate powers?
Why do you think it's one power and what kind of power do you think it is?


Oh, I think it's two powers, now. It had just never occurred to me that "Wraith" was a power in and of itself until Sabrar claimed.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:40 pm UTC

@FrozenFlame: you claimed you had a lot of detailed responses to the 'shit' I brought up here. You've presented none of that.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:42 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:...and @Sabrar, why weren't you curious that plytho interpreted it this way when just about everyone else (AFAIK) believed that you had acquired know-it-all?
Because I didn't see it in the context of plytho wondering what I absorbed, just him being curious about the ability itself.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:52 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:Fuck it Vote: Plytho for now
Ah, right in the face with what I almost read as "fuck Plytho" :D

Nah dude I'd never say something like that lol, I actually have really enjoyed playing with you and really like your style. That's the problem though, I think my favoring your style has basically made me townread you by halo effect and now I'm having serious doubts. I also have a feeling you and Sab are aligned, but I think a sabrar wagon would be impossible right now. Your flip would greatly inform my reads of boomfrog and sab minimally, as well as some quality exchanges you have with Laserguy

Evil George Washington wrote:Note that it wasn't our strategy per say, we just did it as our own thing. Marshy was very against it. Question is, why have you been lurking to this extent? Have you lost motivation, and if so, why? Why did you give an unprompted reads list in your game with LaserGuy, but it takes you this long to make one here? What do you think of Madge's recent vote? Why hint towards your role (lazy way to try to draw a nk) instead of trying to make up for it with content?
I haven't been lurking I'm just inactive because I've been busy and demotivated. This game moves at an insane pace, it's really difficult to keep up. Combo that with spending my whole day reading/writing complex legal documents at work, and you don't exactly have a FrozenFlame that's excited at the prospect of having missed sometimes literally hundreds of posts since the last time I opened the thread up and having to sit down and read and digest content for hours and then spend more hours composing super robust responses. Combo that with getting dumped near the end of the summer and you have an angry, bitter, frustrated FF who is prone to having that frustration carry over to the game and result in cloudy judgement and growing frustration at being unable to clarify and develop better reads because of the sheer overwhelming amount of content I'd have to review to do so. So yeah, this game is a ton of work and I'm not able to put in the necessary work to be the aggressive, town leading scum hunter you might expect from me from the old SWF days. I'm also just emotionally burned out generally and am easily distracted from this game. I'm also discouraged because of being unable to really sort people better as the game has progressed, which just makes me feel like a shittier player. And in a lot of ways I am a shittier player than I used to be. So yeah my motivation has been pretty shot and the only thing that's made me want to hang on is just to not be an absolutely garbage townie who did literally nothing to help and actively made the game harder for his town bros.

Obviously my soft claim was a lazy gimmick to try to draw the NK. What else was I supposed to do though? It was late D3, I had already squandered all of D1-2 not playing as aggressively as I should have been. I couldn't go back in time and change that to draw the NK the "right" way. So I just tried to do SOMETHING. I'm not going to deny that there were better ways to draw an NK and use my power. All I'm saying is that I tried to do SOMETHING and I didn't exactly have the option to revolutionize the scums opinion of me as a potential threat right before deadline after 3 days of play and me not really showcasing myself as a threat. I really don't believe there was any reasonable kind of content I could have posted in that time frame that would've had a better chance at pulling an NK as my softclaim tbh. That's not an excuse, you're right I should've been playing better all game, but it is I think a pretty fair explanation for why I did what I did.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:09 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@FrozenFlame: you claimed you had a lot of detailed responses to the 'shit' I brought up here. You've presented none of that.
Not that you would reasonably know since my tilt post was so vague but that wasn't the post I was referring to when I said I had point by point responses to what you were saying. And when I said "shit" I wasn't calling what you said shit, I was using "shit" as a vulgur colloquialism for "stuff." Just wanted to clarify since it seems like you're interpreting as a normative description of your content, which is wasn't meant to be

This is the post I had responded to line by line before I lost the big post

Sabrar wrote:
So let me get this straight. You thought that Ryu would claim to have protected me, his alleged scum buddy, on N1 and NOT follow up with me in private scum chat about whether or not his protections are confirmed to the target?
Nope, I thought he might have lied about him protecting you and you don't know what you should claim.

If Ryu and I were scum together, Ryu has every incentive to check out the full impact of his power by targeting a scum buddy to get confirmation as to what is communicated to the target.
Except if the power is harmful or he needs to perform some other action or you're untargetable, etc.

For this to be true, you must have believed that Ryu DIDN'T actually target me, his alleged scum buddy, on N1 and instead targeted a non-mafiat who couldn't provide any such confirmation. Why the fuck would he lie about targeting me had he targeted someone else when he didn't know whether or not his protects left a note for the target?
Search me, this is a closed setup with weird powers.

In his initial claim he even noted that the role PM indicated that investigative roles could uncover these protection artifacts, whatever form they were, despite the fact that he couldn't get mod clarification as to whether or not that took the form of a contemporaneous notification PM.
And what investigative roles have been claimed so far that would legitimately see these notes?

I find it very strange that you call this a "standard power" in your opening post. Absorbing 1-shot versions of other roles is "standard" to you? Really?
Really. Check Dark Tower and the Universal Backup role I gave to Carlington. Very similar to this one. To me absorb is simply a variant on Backup with the mechanical differences that I already noted.

Also, what the hell do you mean by you can "build" the jail but not "destroy" it? Is your jailed target jailed for the rest of the game (i.e. roleblocked AND protected from lethal actions?) This lack of completeness here is really concerning to me given how thorough of a player you've presented as for most of this game.
Building the jail is a primary power that I absorbed. Destroying it a secondary that I didn't. Yes, rest of the game. Was phone-posting from bed, hence the briefness but claim is still complete. You're just throwing aroung accusations without bothering to check any of the facts.

Wtf? What do commuters have to do with anything? Maybe I missed something but I legitimately have no idea where you got the idea we had a commuter, let alone why you would want to try to target a commuter on the day the slot would purportedly commute? Like isn't that just asking for your ability to fail?
Complete lack of interest in previous claims noted.


But frankly with what little time and energy I have remaining locking horns with you is just about the last thing I'm interested in doing considering you don't really have any genuine interest in reading me based on what I'm saying and are rather more focused on just trying to poke holes in everything I say. You're not a viable lynch candidate today so pushing the envelope on this is a waste of mine and everyone else's time at this juncture. Arguing with you about the merits of claim order, when to confirm/deny claimed actions of other players' claims, what constitutes a standard role, whether or not you all have been clear about your claims, and whether or not me missing what seems to have been a fake commuter claim constitutes "complete lack of interest" would just be a useless pissing contest. You can be as condescending as you want and hold my inactivity over my head all you please, I really don't fucking care at this point. Enjoy your W by forfeit in this exchange, I hope it brings you plenty of satisfaction.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:13 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:
plytho wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:Fuck it Vote: Plytho for now
Ah, right in the face with what I almost read as "fuck Plytho" :D

Nah dude I'd never say something like that lol, I actually have really enjoyed playing with you and really like your style. That's the problem though, I think my favoring your style has basically made me townread you by halo effect and now I'm having serious doubts.
Thanks, well, not for the doubts :D luckily those doubts will be cleared tonight (unless BoomFrog is somehow lynched)

Well I have to sleep now.

BoomFrog looks scummier than FrozenFlame.

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