Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - Endgame - Apocalypse

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:42 pm UTC

@Freezeblade: what's the difference between a lurk read and a scum read?
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby freezeblade » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:01 pm UTC

plytho wrote:@Freezeblade: what's the difference between a lurk read and a scum read?


For me at least, a "lurk read" just means that a player is so heavily lurking that any read on their content is heavily influenced by the shadow of said lurking. When I was a more active player on here there was loads of discussion about what to do about Lurkers, with about half of the players saying that it's a complete non-tell, and that it is up to the mod to take care of inactive players. This clashed with the other half, and the general mod consensus that it was up to players to self-police against lurkers, lynching them when necessary, as scum generally like to hide in the lurkers, hoping to go mostly unnoticed.

Meaning I can't really assess lurker content without the specter of their lurking looming in the way, making everything look scummier as a result. I differentiate this because I didn't really have much a of read on EGW, beyond the lurking, but the lurking is so egregious that puts them on the scum short-list.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:03 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:
plytho wrote:@Freezeblade: what's the difference between a lurk read and a scum read?


For me at least, a "lurk read" just means that a player is so heavily lurking that any read on their content is heavily influenced by the shadow of said lurking. When I was a more active player on here there was loads of discussion about what to do about Lurkers, with about half of the players saying that it's a complete non-tell, and that it is up to the mod to take care of inactive players. This clashed with the other half, and the general mod consensus that it was up to players to self-police against lurkers, lynching them when necessary, as scum generally like to hide in the lurkers, hoping to go mostly unnoticed.

Meaning I can't really assess lurker content without the specter of their lurking looming in the way, making everything look scummier as a result. I differentiate this because I didn't really have much a of read on EGW, beyond the lurking, but the lurking is so egregious that puts them on the scum short-list.
You said there probably wasn't anything George could say that would change your read. So if he started posting content, you still would have voted him? How does this make sense if you didn't really have a read on him.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:06 pm UTC

For reference:
freezeblade wrote:*Lurk read. at this point almost nothing they would post would convince me that their lynch isn't justified.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:11 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Honestly I would prefer to lynch plytho so we can clear Zen for PoE but I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who thinks that way.
Otherwise we should probably NL or lynch Madge to clear freezeblade but I'm against that one as well.


Where are you on somitomi?

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:17 pm UTC

Right, I don't think anyone's getting lynched anymore today. Town wants flips and scum wants to NK.

Bessie, this is what I meant when I talked about twilight earlier. We have over 24h to talk now with no new information.

I think I'd prefer to keep talking until deadline.

My position on Zen, Sabrar and wam won't change (all very likely town, pending flips)

My read on everyone else remains pretty uncertain and I'm not sure I'll be wiser tomorrow.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby freezeblade » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:19 pm UTC

Zenii wrote:You said there probably wasn't anything George could say that would change your read. So if he started posting content, you still would have voted him? How does this make sense if you didn't really have a read on him.


The fact that they all of a sudden (hypothetical here) post a bunch of content after being called out for lurking doesn't forgive their earlier lurking. There was a reason they were lurking, and the all of a sudden popping in after being called out doesn't magically clear them.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby wam » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:21 pm UTC

Plytho I agree. Also as I'm impatient I don't see what 24 hours more discussion gets us so

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:34 pm UTC

Is that hammer? I have one more thing to say if not.

o:

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby freezeblade » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:37 pm UTC

Unofficial votal D2:3 (Day 2: possible lynchvote 3)
Lights Out (2) - Sabrar, wam
Zenii (1) - Madge
Freezeblade (1) - Laserguy
Bessie (1) - Zenii

10 Alive, 6 to lynch/call day
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:37 pm UTC

Far from it, talk away.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:38 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:
Zenii wrote:You said there probably wasn't anything George could say that would change your read. So if he started posting content, you still would have voted him? How does this make sense if you didn't really have a read on him.


The fact that they all of a sudden (hypothetical here) post a bunch of content after being called out for lurking doesn't forgive their earlier lurking. There was a reason they were lurking, and the all of a sudden popping in after being called out doesn't magically clear them.


Why is somitomi so high up on your reads list? Or Madge? Both have comparable amounts of content to EGW. somitomi is lurking so hard that you forgot to include him at all.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby freezeblade » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:38 pm UTC

Corrected: forgot to add my own vote

Unofficial votal D2:3
Lights Out (3) - Sabrar, wam, Freezeblade
Zenii (1) - Madge
Freezeblade (1) - Laserguy
Bessie (1) - Zenii
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby wam » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:44 pm UTC

Zenii wrote:Is that hammer? I have one more thing to say if not.

o:


You worried me for a second! I didn't think we had enough to hammer. Say away!
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:50 pm UTC

wam wrote:Say away!

say away, say away, say away
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:57 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Where are you on somitomi?
It depends on my actual mood, so putting him at neutral (@bessie: :wink: )

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby freezeblade » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:03 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Why is somitomi so high up on your reads list? Or Madge? Both have comparable amounts of content to EGW. somitomi is lurking so hard that you forgot to include him at all.


Madge and somitomi I feel are at least trying to contribute, their lurking not quite as egregious as EGW. I do think I had both of them pretty near the neutral zone of my read list.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:15 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:Also, sorry, I did kind of skip over that post, I'll reread it. If you've got any more stuff to say about wam though that'd be great.


Just for you, here's some detailed analysis on wam.

Post 3

wam wrote:1) Nights benefit scum, the exact level of by how much depends on what powers town have and how strong they are.


I have been trying to decide whether there is something in this line or not. wam says night benefits scum here, but notes that how much it does depends on what powers Town has. I can't decide if this is scum POV (he already knows what powers scum have) or Town POV (he thinking about Town's powers because he's Town). My feeling is this feels slightly more likely to be the former, but it isn't a strong ping.

3) The comment above of “No comment” to alignment changing roles means we could have a cult. Thinking this over this game is more likely to have one as it is easier to balance – assuming a night recruit we can actually get ahead of them with multiple lynches.


I had a ping on this as well as the other early cult comments in the game, but if we do indeed have an SK and a killing mafia, then I don't think we have a cult.

Post 4

I like the early scum hunting in this post.

There are a bunch of subsequent posts here that I feel are mostly strategy talk that I don't feel are super alignment indicative, beyond that I see wam as being fairly engaged. wam tends to actually have a fairly scummy meta, but I don't get that vibe from him this game. I've only seen him play as Town though, so maybe he's scummy Town and townie scum :P

D1 reads

This looks okay for Page 4 reads. I feel like there are things that he's giving points for here that are not necessarily strongly alignment indicative (e.g. I think his read on me is a little strong for what he's giving me credit for).

D2 reads (1st set)

Technically these are from end of D1 that didn't get posted IIRC.

Some of his reads still feel a bit fluffy to me (e.g. his example of Vic pushing a point is based on a question about flavor). For the most part, though, there is a very deliberate and natural progression to his reads though, indicating where and why people are shifting positions in his ranking. I believe I had similar impressions at the end of day (except Zen, though I see where that comes from).

This post

wam actually goes through and reads a bunch of Crossover to get a meta read on Zen, and even shows his work! This feels townie, and I have a hard time believing scum!wam would bother doing this. Noting he's kind of softclaiming his cop counterclaim here.

Here's his claim

I find it a little weird that wam was going to save this result till endgame. If he's a one-shot cop with no other powers, there isn't a lot of reason to withhold this, especially if he didn't crumb it. Thinking about this has also got me thinking more about Madge's claim. Is it weird for Madge to have two one-shot powers? Especially when one of them is pretty strong? Relevant, this post.

This exchange with plytho is interesting since plytho did think Zen was scum at day start. While I feel this is consistent with what I think plytho will claim, it's interesting that neither player noticed this.

I don't agree with wam trying to clear Vic based on his name claim here, and find it a bit ironic that wam is claiming that Vic's claim matches perfectly with his name, whereas earlier Vic was claiming that you couldn't deduce his power from his claim. I don't see how Marine Seargant -> bodyguard, though actually. I get a bit of a buddy vibe from this sequence.


tl;dr: I feel like wam is active and engaged with the game, and putting a lot of thought into both strategy and trying to develop reads. His claim is believable. There are a few posts that give me big townie pings (e.g. Crossover meta dive). There are a few things that seem a bit dubious to me, but nothing that really stands out as definitely coming from scum rather than Town. Excluding his claim, I'd probably have him as Town lean. In the unlikely event that heury flips Town cop, then wam is probably scum. Otherwise, I don't really see any reason to doubt his claim.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:35 pm UTC

Addendum:

Actually, there is one thing that does bother me a bit about wam's claim. He didn't know what result he would get for a non-UNE target (see here and my post just above). I have a hard time figuring out how his role PM could be phrased ambiguously enough that he wouldn't know this information, or why he wouldn't ask about it if it were that unclear.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:21 pm UTC

Zenii wrote:Is that hammer? I have one more thing to say if not.

o:
what is the thing??
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:31 pm UTC

I'm a little vexed that the second lynch has apparently sapped all of the momentum out of the game. Too many people have been coasting through the last half of this day phase.

We need one more lynch.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Vicarin » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:19 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Addendum:

Actually, there is one thing that does bother me a bit about wam's claim. He didn't know what result he would get for a non-UNE target (see here and my post just above). I have a hard time figuring out how his role PM could be phrased ambiguously enough that he wouldn't know this information, or why he wouldn't ask about it if it were that unclear.


On this note, I've been wondering how the cop flavour would be done this game, especially with regards to whether scum has false claims or not. If wam could say how his cop works in flavour that would possibly help but he might think it gives away too much about his role. I mean, he's already said he's a marine, but I'm not sure if anything beyond that.

Unfortunately PW's role doesn't help narrow it down as psionic powers would be effective against any sort of disguise the scum has.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:26 am UTC

Cop results generally ignore safeclaims.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Vicarin » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:38 am UTC

I know that, duh. I'm just wondering how it's done in flavour. If a cop in this involves looking at a registry of people meant to be on the ship (hmmm says here EGW is a killbot maybe we should do something) then safeclaims from scum infiltrating the command structure would actually be 'stronger' than than that, as they're supposed to be on the ship in that case. So I'd think either the cop is 'stronger' in flavour than that, or scum doesn't have good fake claims. Alternatively, there could be just a godfather with a good fake claim by one scum who's infiltrated further, and the rest have worse ones.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Madge » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:38 am UTC

Right i should do a claim table:

Laserguy
Freezeblade - roleblocker
sabrar
Zenii - day-stopper
plytho
Vicarin
Somitomi
Bessie
wam - cop(? any caveats)
Madge - one shot vig + one other super secret power

Those are the claims I remember, let me know if i missed anything / help me maintain the data
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:43 am UTC

Vic has claimed bodyguard; somitomi has claimed day ends when he is lynched.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Vicarin » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:04 am UTC

Freezeblade claimed his roleblock was 1 shot and I think wam claimed his cop was 1 shot.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:04 am UTC

plytho wrote:
Zenii wrote:Is that hammer? I have one more thing to say if not.

o:
what is the thing??
I still think we should be proceeding pyramidal fashion. I think one more person should be lynched today and that we should only lynch one person a day from then on out.*

I don't think the confidence that at least one of George or heury will flip mafia is warranted, especially knowing that Sabrar's buddy-reasoning is incorrect. Another thing I recently thought of: this is pure speculation and I have no reason to think it other than it would be interesting, but it is possible scum have a janitor, the opposite of PW's role. If that is the case, we may be in a situation tomorrow of just having an indy flip. I'm assuming if the role did exist, then it would be 1-shot or limited to just 1 of the previous day's lynches. If George and heury are not both mafia, and one of them is, then their jan!bud could use jan to hide their alignment, leaving us with only the other's flip.

The only reason I'm speculating about this, is because the sentiment that tomorrow is going to be a bright new day is making me uneasy. I really think we need one more flip. Preferably, I'd like for this to be bessie, but I don't have much hope for convincing anyone. Regardless, I would at least like for everyone to make an explicit stance on bessie and my case before the day ends.

The Case in Summary


Hard Evidence

Point
bessie is not actually scumhunting, she is scumjustifying.

How this is exhibited:
She continued arguing a point off of invalid logic. This suggests an agenda mentality. When scum are disproven, they have to find a new way to frame or justify their position.

Posts in Question:
Spoiler:
Zenii wrote:
bessie wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:Sabrar, don’t you think Madge would have breadcrumbed a town role?
No relying on that one since it became public.
Ok you have a point that Madge’s meta comes up a lot and she’s made a conscious effort to change it recently, but still this would be one of the few games she didn’t breadcrumb as town, except Newbie New Year where she tried to false soft claim.
Scum logic. The fact that Madge has done it at least once should disprove this as a scum tell. And you're indicating here that she has done it a few times. You're not looking for scum, bessie, you're just pretending.

bessie wrote:Earlier when I did a quick check I only looked at games on the first page that I played and that Madge played from the beginning (not as a replacement), and three others where I distinctly remembered the breadcrumb. Madge then stated that she did not breadcrumb in Crossover, Newbie New Year, Shakespeare, or this game. I had somehow missed Shakespeare (but it turns out she did breadcrumb in that game) and Crossover, and I already said she wouldn’t have breadcrumbed in Newbie New Year because she soft claimed. So when I made my comment I was acknowledging that I missed at least one recent game (note: I didn’t play any games for about 7 months in 2016). I’m also acknowledging that Sabrar has a point that Madge’s meta has been a topic of discussion and that she has made a conscious effort to change it. I don’t see why you find it suspicious that I want to consider if I missed something. Typing this out now I remember Madge claimed in Crossover, she didn’t need to breadcrumb.
(elaboration miniaturized to easier read the main point)

zen wrote:bessie, I have no problem with the first line of the post,

It is the BUT line that is scummy. I don't think you are actually trying to find scum, because there's no reason you should be continuing on with this point. If Madge has played a town game before without breadcrumbing, then why are you still using it as a point?


Point
bessie is perception managing.

How this is exhibited:
I believe that bessie's voice of doubt about Vic was something she had made up in the moment. Vic misinterpreted her meaning of "scum", but despite clarifying that in her response, bessie added further justification for her wording. I believe that bessie was trying to specifically not look contradictory toward Vicarin and added this reasoning in appeasement to his question.

Posts in Question:
Spoiler:
Sabrar wrote:@bessie: are you laser-focused on Vicarin and Madge? Do you have any opinion on the rest of stuff that's been happening?
bessie wrote:Yes, I’m trying to get current with the thread and tomorrow I should have plenty of time to do a comprehensive reads list. If it appears I have been laser focused on Vicarin the past couple days it is because he is engaging me directly more than anyone else and I have been responding to him. And I believe he is scum. My scum reads in my last D1 post were Peaceful Whale, Vicarin, and Madge, see here. Early D2 it was heury. Madge hasn’t given me much on D2 to respond to, but Vicarin had given me a lot, and I only have about two hours a day on weekdays to put toward this.
Vicarin wrote:Also, by scum, you mean lyncher? Or aren't you sure anymore?
bessie wrote:I usually use scum for generic non-town. I still think you are indie with a target, but I'm wondering if perhaps the fact that you keep engaging with me on the points I find scummy in your content, and constantly causing me to justify my scum reads on you, thus reinforcing my scum reads on you, is causing me to tunnel.



Subjective, but accurate, Meta Evidence:

Point
It was presented by Hari in NNY that town!bessie doesn't take the time to justify her town reads, but something was left out: she doesn't take the time to directly justify her reevaluations either. She does allude to her position, but that's it. Her Town reads post is NAI, since bessie's lack of tr justification was made public, and she is now apparently attempting to do what she was pushing PW for;

But her vic "reconsideration" post is AI, because she was not aware of this aspect.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Zenii » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 am UTC

*this needs to be reevaluated if there is indeed evidence of a janitor tomorrow


Alright, that's enough from me toDay. I need a break. I'll still be lurking in case my vote is needed or a specific question needs to be answered. I don't really expect anyone to be convinced on the bessie meta tell, but I think the hard discrepancies I pointed out in her play are strong. Again, I'd like everyone to comment and/or vote on this before the Day ends.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Madge » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:11 am UTC

claim table:

Laserguy
Freezeblade - roleblocker (1-shot)
sabrar
Zenii - day-stopper
plytho
Vicarin
Somitomi
Bessie
wam - cop (1-shot)
Madge - one shot vig + one other super secret power

Freezeblade and Wam haven't, AFAIK, claimed that they have no powers other than the single one-shot power. I am quite happy for that to be left mysterious as the less scum knows the better.

Also... who was the bodyguard?
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Vicarin » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:15 am UTC

I'd be reasonably happy with a bessie lynch too, I've found some aspects of her attacks rather strange, such as attacking my setup speculation despite liking doing it herself. That appeared to be appealing to what other people found scummy while driving for my lynch instead of what she found scummy.

I somewhat doubt we're going to get enough support for this Zenii, but this is where I stand.

Vote: bessie

I'm the bodyguard Madge.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Madge » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:23 am UTC

claim table:

Laserguy
Freezeblade - roleblocker (1-shot)
sabrar
Zenii - day-stopper
plytho
Vicarin - bodyguard
Somitomi
Bessie
wam - cop (1-shot)
Madge - one shot vig + one other super secret power

Freezeblade and Wam haven't, AFAIK, claimed that they have no powers other than the single one-shot power. I am quite happy for that to be left mysterious as the less scum knows the better.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:27 am UTC

Not my favorite choice lynch, but I'll help you guys out.

Vote: bessie

@Madge, plytho, somitomi: Would like opinions from you on Zen's case.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Vicarin » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:37 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Not my favorite choice lynch, but I'll help you guys out.

Vote: bessie

@Madge, plytho, somitomi: Would like opinions from you on Zen's case.


Wait, what? Your reads list on page 20 has bessie as "very likely town", why on earth are you happy to join me and Zenii? Was Zenii's case really that convincing for you?

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Madge
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Madge » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:45 am UTC

I think it makes sense, but I wouldn't use it to justify executing bessie. I'd rather execute Zenni for scummy past behaviour and scummy role and then if Zenni flips town look to Bessie.
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Vicarin
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Vicarin » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:03 am UTC

As much as I'd have loved to lynch Zenii earlier on, his content has vastly improved, and Plytho seems to think he can clear Zenii somewhat tomorrow, so I'd definitely prefer to wait until tomorrow to consider Zenii more.

(If Zenii turns out to be scum able to stop every 2nd day I'm gonna be really annoyed)

I've been wondering if EGW was culted N1 and stopped caring much about D2 because of that, but this wouldn't explain his terrible claim as he'd have just claimed his original role. Of course, if he does flip cult, any sort of confirmation of people is immediately out the window annoyingly, which mostly affects Sabrar.

Depending on the flips and whether a cult exists or not, we can well be heading into LYLO territory tomorrow so have to take that into account.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby Suzaku » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:26 am UTC

Current votals:

bessie - 3 (Zenii, Vicarin, LaserGuy)
Lights Out - 3 (Sabrar, freezeblade, wam)
Zenii - 1 (Madge)

Not voting: bessie, somitomi, plytho

With ten alive, six votes are required for execution.

Deadline is 11:00 on 2018/3/7 JST (=2018/3/7 02:00 UTC) this will not be extended further.
Note that an execution within 12 hours of deadline (i.e. after 3/6 14:00 UTC) ends the day automatically.
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:16 am UTC

@Vic: What are you comments on this? Why were you interested in my read on wam in particular?

Vicarin wrote:Wait, what? Your reads list on page 20 has bessie as "very likely town", why on earth are you happy to join me and Zenii? Was Zenii's case really that convincing for you?


I have a few suspicions of bessie independent of Zen's case that have lowered my confidence in my read on her, and I have a lot of faith in Zen's instincts.

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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby wam » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:44 am UTC

Zen you make good points and I can see the argument. However, I am about half way through my 're read and have covered B for Bessie. It came out town. I can post the detail when I get home in 10 hours or so. So at the moment I am sticking to my town read. I also want to hear plythos basis for a zen town read before I fully trust Zen.
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bessie
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Re: Stellaris Mafia (Lights Out) - D2 - Awakening

Postby bessie » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:57 am UTC

Zenii wrote:It doesn't have a purpose other than perception management -- or, as Hari put it, "to show that you are 'thinking' about your read".
Re Hari. Yes, I remember what Hari’s said about me. I alluded to it here.
bessie wrote:And I tried to give a read on everyone, not just my scum reads. Hmm.
And it’s been in the back of my mind ever since Newbie New Year, as have been a number of other things related to my gameplay style and my meta. You read the game, and the Gojoe thread.

Zenii wrote:It's not selective. That's the only scum game you've had in a while.
Yes but it is selective. It’s a scum game.

Zenii wrote:If you can find a single example of you, as town, detailing the reconsideration of your read, I will retract my point. Of course you have reconsidered reads. It would be an amazing feat of stubbornness if you never did. What is suspicious here, as it was with your SS plytho read, is the detailing of it. It doesn't have a purpose other than perception management -- or, as Hari put it, "to show that you are 'thinking' about your read".
Hmm, the problem that I have with this is finding an example that fits your all your criteria. And this would not be an easy search, as I said before. It’s not just a keyword search, I would have to read and evaluate my content.

Zenii wrote:Am I misinterpreting?
Perhaps we are disagreeing with what constitutes a push.

Zenii wrote:It is the BUT line that is scummy. I don't think you are actually trying to find scum, because there's no reason you should be continuing on with this point. If Madge has played a town game before without breadcrumbing, then why are you still using it as a point?
You started questioning me on it, you’re continuing to question me on it. Who’s the one continuing on this point?

Zenii wrote:This made me think of something else too: If I recall, the only time you've used meta to justify a read is SS. Is that correct?
moody in Crossover?

Zenii wrote:You know, I just realized there may be something that is misunderstood about that whole situation: you guys do realize that the day would have continued had Madge not voted me, right? Since Suzaku wasn't online when heury voted and unvoted, I don't think my ability would have activated. This is why I was scum reading Madge so hard for her hammer. Even if I was lying about having a day ending ability, there was literally no reason not to save me for last. And Madge wanted to vote for me even before Sabrar pointed out that heury had already put me at L-3. Scum!Madge was put in a w/w situation. If I was telling the truth, the day would end. If I was lying, I'd be lynched for lying.
No I didn’t realize this. The way I understood your claim, the heury vote was going to count and the day would end even if Madge hadn’t voted. That’s why I said what I did about your power in my read. Why didn’t you clear this up before?

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:Why did Sabrar feel the need to justify these reads? He distanced himself from these reads later when he claimed he wrote them before the game even started,
How did you miss this? I justified my serious reads which happily coincided with my joke-list in a large decree.
I thought you were talking about the foolproof plan #1 lynch list because the middle part of that post was about the plan list.

Sabrar wrote:@bessie: you note a lot of things about my content but don't comment on them or draw any conclusion. What's up with that?
Thought I was going to be back last night with some conclusions.

Zenii wrote:Is that hammer? I have one more thing to say if not.
Interesting how you were so aware of the vote count when we were lynching heury. Even with the rapid fire voting and switching, you knew exactly when heury was hammered, and voted for freezeblade one minute later.

Sorry I need to lie down for a few minutes, back in a bit, I'm still replying to today's content.


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