Alien Warfare Mafia (GAME OVER)

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LaserGuy
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 08, 2018 9:47 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:I'm gonna try to make a partial read now. However, I am totally lost. I don't know how you guys get reads so easily. The most important thing in my opinion is finding Illaman. We have to win with them and Mercora, so we need to know them before we can really plan.


Also, can you explain why you said you thought the most important thing here was finding Illaman?

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Sabrar
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 08, 2018 9:48 pm UTC

@Maven: spoken like a true Garatron.

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Mark_Cangila
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Tue May 08, 2018 10:16 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@Mark: Why bother redirecting me rather than doing something against SDK or Sabrar?

I didn't think they would have night abilities. I knew that town would have some night abilities, and thought it was a better bet. My mistake. :oops:
LaserGuy wrote:
Mark_Cangila wrote:I'm gonna try to make a partial read now. However, I am totally lost. I don't know how you guys get reads so easily. The most important thing in my opinion is finding Illaman. We have to win with them and Mercora, so we need to know them before we can really plan.


Also, can you explain why you said you thought the most important thing here was finding Illaman?

I was still trying to hide at that point. I also wanted to try to discover the other Illaman.

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Mark_Cangila
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Tue May 08, 2018 11:14 pm UTC

Maven89 wrote:Remember that the aliens are not on our side, two factions we can win with, but they're not with us. If they think it'd be easier to win with Gamatron they'd slaughter us. If the vote counts turn that way, it's possible they will and we'll find the town outvoted long before a normal game. Don't trust them please.

This is very suspicious. It reads exactly like a Garatron trying to redirect the focus onto us. I would be very suspicious of Maven. Also, Maven, what pronouns do you use? I didn't see you on the megathread.

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Vicarin
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 09, 2018 12:13 am UTC

Well, if Mercora is just going to be blatantly unhelpful then I guess we'll just have to try to ignore their shenanigans for the time being.

@Mark: both Mercora claimed having a Mercora cop ability that you could redirect and you didn't mess around with them?

The way this day is going I'd just say lynch freezeblade and be done with it: we're stuck in a loop of everyone saying that Garatron is the most important target and then not actually actively finding them. If Liri doesn't claim Illaman or Mercora then I guess they're fine to lynch too.

If anyone other than the 2 Mercora vote for Mark right now when he seems willing to co-operate they should probably get lynched.

@LaserGuy: anything else to share about your targeting me? Or you think enough info is out now?

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LaserGuy
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby LaserGuy » Wed May 09, 2018 2:06 am UTC

@Vic: Is there a read motivating this? Otherwise probably better to wait.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 09, 2018 2:08 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@Vic: Is there a read motivating this? Otherwise probably better to wait.


Nah, waiting is good. Just not much happening right now.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby LaserGuy » Wed May 09, 2018 3:02 am UTC

Okay, let's do freezeblade.

Vote: freezeblade

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Vicarin
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 09, 2018 3:23 am UTC

@LaserGuy: Wait, was your question with regards to my freezeblade vote or my question to you? Former probably makes more sense, was responding as if it was the latter...

Finding freezeblade pretty scummy because of the relatively low activity, and when there is some, it's usually just restating what others said (we should kill Garatron? No way!). In addition, claiming to have 3 alien factions named in his PM is majorly weird for town. I believe that the entire point of this setup was that no Human would know that Garatron existed directly at the start, so to claim to have 3 aliens named and then not be sure if there's more than 1 human faction is super duper weird.

@everyone who isn't claimed Mercora or Illaman: put out some reads for goodness sake we can't just sit around while time ticks away. We still need to find the rest of Garatron.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby LaserGuy » Wed May 09, 2018 3:32 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:@LaserGuy: Wait, was your question with regards to my freezeblade vote or my question to you? Former probably makes more sense, was responding as if it was the latter...


It was the latter, but I'm fine doing freezeblade as well. Him and Liri are basically the only people I really feel I need to sort at this point.

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bessie
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby bessie » Wed May 09, 2018 3:35 am UTC

SDK wrote:
bessie wrote:
SDK wrote:Seems reasonable. I think we should lynch bessie, personally, though Liri and jimbob are both good choices as far as I'm concerned.
Interesting. Any particular reason for preferring me me me?

I think you're most likely to be Illaman. :!:
And why? Do you actually have a read on me? Are you sure it’s not just OMGYS because I’ve been tunneling you and Sabrar?

Sabrar’s been quiet today. He must be bored, watching everyone else puzzle it out and having to sit and watch. :P

Mark_Cangila, hi, I haven’t interacted with you much this game, very un-meta of me, but I didn’t see the need to give you my usual newbie treatment. I’m sorry about that. One reason is that others have been helping you out, another reason is that you have been doing very well for a new player, and you haven’t needed much help! And there may be another meta reason that is totally unrelated to my alignment. I see that you still are a little shaky on things like voting and FoS. An FoS and an IGMEOY are not like an official votes. They’re a way of signaling someone that you’re very suspicious of them, but not suspicious enough to vote for them, or can’t at this time vote for them (could be because you’re voting for someone else, or because the suspicious person is at L-1, or something like that). You can FoS/IGMEOY as many people as you want at a time. And because it’s not official, you don’t need to unFoS/unIGMEOY, the mod does not count it and it does not automatically turn in to an official vote. In Dollhouse Mafia, I did it to everyone in the game, including the mod. And umm, don’t do that, it has more effect if you use it sparingly, like this:

FoS: jimbobmacdoodle

Reason: Pushing for a mass claim, and providing questionable reasons.

And Mark, if you have any general gameplay questions, please feel free to ask in game and someone will answer truthfully. And always feel free to ask the mod anything, he will either answer or no comment as necessary.

SDK wrote:Why am I such a genocidal maniac anyway? Need some backstory to really get me into the role. :P


Mr. SDK finished grading the last of his papers and sat back in his chair. He felt it again. An odd sharp pain in the back of his head. A year and a half had passed since the terrifying events of Monstrous Masquerade Mafia II, and it had since been quiet and uneventful here at Munroe High School. They had started as three, and after they arrived they found this place and managed to blend in with the locals, as Principal Djehutynakht, as Mr. SDK the teacher, and as Vice Principal bessie’s old therapy dog. The others were gone, but he waited, patiently, and managed to keep his true nature hidden. And now he felt it, the odd sharp pain, and he knew what it meant. They were finally coming, and he needed to be ready when the mothership arrived...

Vicarin wrote:@LaserGuy: anything else to share about your targeting me? Or you think enough info is out now?
Another push on LaserGuy to claim? This is twice that I’ve had point out your fishing, and that LaserGuy would share when he was ready to do so.

LaserGuy wrote: @Vic: Is there a read motivating this? Otherwise probably better to wait.
I don’t think that’s his motivation.

So Vicarin, why freezeblade?

Ninja'd by Vicarin. Ok.

Working on a thorough read of D2 and a reread of D1.

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Vicarin
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 09, 2018 3:58 am UTC

@bessie: some day you'll realise that I just like asking questions as town :P

Also, is this reread going to have some Garatron lynch candidates? That would be great.

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Sabrar
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 4:01 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:Well, if Mercora is just going to be blatantly unhelpful then I guess we'll just have to try to ignore their shenanigans for the time being.
Explain. What would you do in my position? How can I help Town?

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Vicarin
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 09, 2018 4:10 am UTC

Give some actual reads lists? Put your vote somewhere useful? Keep copping and try to find a 3rd Mercora to help narrow down the lynch pool? Communicate any important information using your messaging capability?

Mainly want the first 2 at the moment really.

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Sabrar
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 4:13 am UTC

Already told you multiple times that my best bet for Garatron is jimbob and Maven. Read back.

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bessie
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby bessie » Wed May 09, 2018 4:14 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:@bessie: some day you'll realise that I just like asking questions as town :P

Also, is this reread going to have some Garatron lynch candidates? That would be great.

Or you just like asking questions. :P

I've been trying to reevaluate D1 now that we have some flips, and I'm already behind on D2. Weekdays are difficult for me, I have more time on weekends, unfortunately the timing in this game isn't working out for me so far.

Sabrar, don't you ever sleep? :D

Ninja'd.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 09, 2018 4:18 am UTC

@Sabrar: you got anyone that you strongly see as town?

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 4:21 am UTC

plytho and LaserGuy only.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 4:23 am UTC

bessie wrote:Sabrar, don't you ever sleep? :D
I'd love to. :(

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Vicarin
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 09, 2018 4:29 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:plytho and LaserGuy only.


:(

What's your opinion on bessie, Liri, and freezeblade?

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Sabrar
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 4:47 am UTC

bessie feels off, spends too much time looking up irrelevant details (something she already accused both jimbob and me). Also going by historical evidence she must be Illaman because we are destined to always be on opposite sides. :lol:

freezeblade is the quintessential lurker but his D1 meta is par for course and D2 he gave IRL reasons. HIs actual content is lacking but at least he can't be Mercora. He is unlikely to be Illaman as well so he's probably a good lynch-candidate for you guys.

Liri is also lurking but he's a newbie so I don't know if that's indicative. I haven't re-read him closely but I didn't get any scum-vibes from him so far.

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bessie
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby bessie » Wed May 09, 2018 7:07 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:Sabrar, don't you ever sleep? :D
I'd love to. :(
I have the same problem. I wish I had some super effective meditation technique or herbal remedy to share with you, but I don’t. I take pills. I’m sorry, Sabrar.

Sabrar wrote: plytho and LaserGuy only.
Or not. Burn in ever-awake werewolf alien hell with SDK. :P

Sabrar wrote:bessie feels off, spends too much time looking up irrelevant details (something she already accused both jimbob and me). Also going by historical evidence she must be Illaman because we are destined to always be on opposite sides. :lol:
Hmm, and who was it on D1 that questioned me for my thoughts on minimal bastardry and prodded me when I didn’t answer directly, wanted my opinion on vote changing mechanics, used my reply to try to cast doubt on me, resulting in an attack from me, and baited me to take a dig at him knowing I would be unable to resist? :P And, uh, did it again just now I guess. :shock:

And we are most certainly on different sides in this game, as to how opposite those sides are, that is yet to be revealed.

Vicarin, I need a large block of time to do a thorough read. I’ve been posting my D2 content as I write it, because I’ve had scattered blocks of time in which to work. I’m trying to clear a few hours tomorrow night to work on this uninterrupted.

Some things I’m working on. bessie’s updated setup spec: 6/3/2/2 with three Garatron, because I don’t think two is enough. I think with two it would be too difficult for Garatron to get the support of one of the survivor factions. I need to reread D1 for possible teams, and might change my mind.

Latest town-scum list, gut reads. :?

Woof
mpolo
bessie
LaserGuy
plytho
Vicarin
Maven89
freezeblade
jimbobmacdoodle
Liri
Mark_Cangila - Illaman
Sabrar - Mercora
SDK - Mercora
wam - Garatron
Grrr

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed May 09, 2018 8:26 am UTC

Bessie wrote:FoS: jimbobmacdoodle

Reason: Pushing for a mass claim, and providing questionable reasons.
I stand by my reasons. Please explain why you find my reasons questionable.

@Vicarin, I don't think you ever replied to my comment on the Illaman claiming. Please do.

I hope to get some time to do a few brief reads this evening, but I can't promise it. This week's turning out to be busier than expected.

Current gut reads:
Human: LaserGuy, plytho(?), Vicarin, Maven(?)
Illaman: Mark, Liri(? Not town, could be Garatron)
Mercora: SDK, Sabrar
Garatron: freezeblade (bad perspective, low content), bessie (to be reviewed as mostly OMGUS, but feels a little off with her focus on me).
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed May 09, 2018 8:27 am UTC

Oh, also, saying I'm pushing for a mass claim is a misrepresentation, since that term usually refers to mass ability or role claims, which I'm certainly not pushing for.
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 09, 2018 8:44 am UTC

@jimbob: I'm not seeing any great reasons for them to not claim unless they think there's kills on opposing side that they need to watch out for, which seems unlikely given the powers Mercora apparently have.

Come to think of it, Mark's claimed ability does seem rather strong for breaking the symmetry if it can redirect the NK, makes it more likely that Mercora have something to make up for it.

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Sabrar
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 8:50 am UTC

Vicarin became very antagonistic towards Mercora during N1. If I didn't know that Illaman can't recruit it would be an obvious conclusion.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby LaserGuy » Wed May 09, 2018 8:55 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:@jimbob: I'm not seeing any great reasons for them to not claim unless they think there's kills on opposing side that they need to watch out for, which seems unlikely given the powers Mercora apparently have.

Come to think of it, Mark's claimed ability does seem rather strong for breaking the symmetry if it can redirect the NK, makes it more likely that Mercora have something to make up for it.


I think the double voter is intended to be the balance. As it stands right now, Mercora controls the lynch between themselves and Illaman, but Illaman has the opportunity to redirect kills onto Mercora. The dynamic is actually quite clever, I think.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 8:57 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:As it stands right now, Mercora controls the lynch between themselves and Illaman
This is untrue if Town decides to side with one of the factions.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 8:58 am UTC

Also would have appreciated if people don't start giving ideas to Illaman about how to kill us...

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed May 09, 2018 9:30 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Also would have appreciated if people don't start giving ideas to Illaman about how to kill us...
Why would we do that? NKs hitting you mean they're not hitting us humans... :P
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby plytho » Wed May 09, 2018 9:51 am UTC

@bessie: did you miss my question?

Everything from Mercora should be considered wine. Please everyone make an extra effort this game to make sure your reads are your own and not influenced by whatever SDK and Sabrar are saying. Actually, I'm almost tempted to foe Sabrar and SDK for the rest of the game :twisted:

The same goes for Illaman, but I don't think Mark is a threat on the same scale as Sabrar and SDK.
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Sabrar
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 10:12 am UTC

So one player calls us liars and unhelpful in contrary of the facts and the other says that whatever we do or say shouldn't be considered seriously anyway. Great prospects...

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Vicarin
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 09, 2018 10:28 am UTC

I've already said what you can do to help and I'm sure you can come up with other ways. It'd be more useful than complaining about the situation at least.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 10:41 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:1. Give some actual reads lists?
2. Put your vote somewhere useful?
3. Keep copping and try to find a 3rd Mercora to help narrow down the lynch pool?
4. Communicate any important information using your messaging capability?

1. Already done. Am one of the few who actually expressed an opinion on multiple people. Irrelevant anyway if town just disregards it as wine.
2. Once there will 2 potential lynch-candidates I will make my choice but for now my vote means nothing.
3. Useless advice currently as it's a night-ability.
4. Useless advice currently as it's a night-ability.

You simply are unable to look at my pov and understand how inconsistent you are.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 09, 2018 11:03 am UTC

You tell me how your vote on Mark is currently useful then, and whether it could be more usefully applied (votes are only useful with 2 candidates? Damn, I've been playing Mafia all wrong!). I can see from your PoV perfectly fine, but you don't seem to understand how town views your actions.

Town has to interpret your reads very, very carefully due to the wine, but I think there's still plenty of worthwhile information you can give us. If you catch out scum on a factual inconsistency like how wam got caught D1 then it's not really a situation where wine is an issue.

I mean, how do you normally play if you're outed as a survivor? This game is unusual because there's 2 survivor teams, and the usual town strategy of just lynching survivor claims will take too long. If I was in your shoes, I'd be doing everything I could to make town like me, and encourage other people on my team to do the same. Unless, of course, you think scum is going to win in which case you can just interfere the entire game and trust that town doesn't have time to lynch you. Seems like a kind of bad idea with wam dead early, but whatever.

Convince me that you can help town. Pretend that you're human, and just act that way. If you do that for the rest of the game, then I'm happy sharing the victory with Mercora. If you can convince SDK to do the same, even better. In particular, be more helpful than Illaman. This setup does require some measure of trust between the different factions, so be trustworthy, and then maybe we can trust you.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby plytho » Wed May 09, 2018 11:09 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:Convince me that you can help town. Pretend that you're human, and just act that way. If you do that for the rest of the game, then I'm happy sharing the victory with Mercora.
The thing you're missing here, and the reason why we can't trust mercora, and the reason Sabrar is frustrated, is that we can't promise to share victory with mercora (at least not at this point). Think this through: what happens when we lynch the last Garatron?
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 11:12 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:so be trustworthy, and then maybe we can trust you.
Trust has to be earned. You don't accuse someone to be a liar and then ask him to make the first step to prove himself trustworthy when your accusation was completely bogus.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 09, 2018 11:32 am UTC

plytho wrote:
Vicarin wrote:Convince me that you can help town. Pretend that you're human, and just act that way. If you do that for the rest of the game, then I'm happy sharing the victory with Mercora.
The thing you're missing here, and the reason why we can't trust mercora, and the reason Sabrar is frustrated, is that we can't promise to share victory with mercora (at least not at this point). Think this through: what happens when we lynch the last Garatron?


I know we can't promise anything at this point, but that's not really how trust works. If we could promise it and we couldn't break it, they wouldn't have to trust in town, they'd just know we're telling the truth. I know it's frustrating for Sabrar, as it's rather frustrating for Town as well that we can't ensure that Illaman and Mercora won't try to help Garatron at any point, but if we try to win this without any help from either faction, it's almost certainly not going to go well for us.

When we lynch the last Garatron, I thought we're going to have to have a somewhat interesting conversation in Town about which side to lynch away, and the deciding factor is almost certainly going to be how each faction acted towards Town. Unless someone has a different method in mind?

Sabrar wrote:
Vicarin wrote:so be trustworthy, and then maybe we can trust you.
Trust has to be earned. You don't accuse someone to be a liar and then ask him to make the first step to prove himself trustworthy when your accusation was completely bogus.


If you want to keep arguing about semantics regarding lying by omission then I can just chalk you up as uncooperative and ask for Mark's help, if you want to side with Garatron. There was also the whole "I'm perfectly fine being lynched over this" statement that you flip-flopped on and all that.

I'm not particularly interested in continuing in this argument because I know that you'll never, ever, ever admit defeat (I still remember what happened in the Newbie Game :P) but if you still feel like winning this game, just show that you're more trustworthy than Illaman and I'll be happy to side with you once the last Garatron is dead.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 09, 2018 11:37 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:If you want to keep arguing about semantics regarding lying by omission
...
I'm not particularly interested in continuing in this argument
Seeing that you're literally the only player in this whole game who still considers that 'lying by omission' I'm not particularly interested to convince you either.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day Two)

Postby plytho » Wed May 09, 2018 11:52 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:I know we can't promise anything at this point, but that's not really how trust works. If we could promise it and we couldn't break it, they wouldn't have to trust in town, they'd just know we're telling the truth.


My point is we don't even have the power to make or break that promise.
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