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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:28 pm UTC
by plytho
Hi Mark, anything to claim?

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:29 pm UTC
by Mark_Cangila
Sorry I am on vacation. I am re reading wam rn. I'm gonna go ahead and claim before deadline.

I am Vanilla Town. No power roles at all.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:56 pm UTC
by BoomFrog
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:BoomFrog (?) made an interesting point about No Lynch, since that is the usual course of action in MYLO. I think this is only a reasonable course of action if we're pretty confident Mark is town and is going to be modkill. I'm not confident on either point.

I thought this was plytho's point. Anyway, if Mark will 100% be modkilled we can just lynch him since lynching him and modkill+NoLynch are the same thing, and we won't have to mess around with last minute votes as much. However, if Mark is not going to be modkilled we should lynch who we think is scum. Since we don't know, I'd rather just play the game and lynch who we think is scum. If mark and our lynch target are both town, I feel comfortable with the loss, and will congratulate scum on a well played game.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:58 pm UTC
by BoomFrog
But seriously, why are we supporting the lynch that wam and moody both support, when most people agree those two are the second and third scummiest?

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:08 pm UTC
by Mark_Cangila
Based only on D1 I like Wam's D1 vote. He stayed with SDK and even though SDK was town he didn't go to Vic to further push the mislynch, which would be best play for scum. D2 really made him scummy. After the very start and after the wagon started on SDK Wam stops mentioning him, leaving him out of his reads list, promising to post later, and forgetting. His D3 seems very OMGUS and not great. He is mildly scummy to me. Can someone sum up the points against moody? I won't have time to read them before deadline. Also if I missed any Wam points please tell me.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:14 pm UTC
by wam
BoomFrog wrote:But seriously, why are we supporting the lynch that wam and moody both support, when most people agree those two are the second and third scummiest?


It's my 2nd choice.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:27 pm UTC
by wam
Fyi We have 30 minutes to deadline.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:35 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
wam wrote:Fyi We have 30 minutes to deadline.
I was about to deny this, but nope, you're right :shock: Time to do that promised speedy analysis.

@BoomFrog, prior to doing said analysis, I feel like scum would have decided to bus by now, and Mark would be an obvious candidate. If the scum team is, as I believe, among {moody, Mark, mpolo, wam}, they need to find a way to dig themselves out of the hole they're in. A solid bit of bussing the entire day may be just enough to do that.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:39 pm UTC
by mpolo
No time left. Mark is claiming VT, which negates my possible town reading of him (that he was a vendor). However, I am going back and forth on whether he is newbie town or scum.

I won't vote Mark now (hammer), but will try to check again in 15 minutes. I would be willing to vote moody or wam as well, though those are process of elimination leads.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:48 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
Analysis of Mark buddies, looking at Mark's posts first:

Madge - very unlikely given his and Madge's early discussion. I doubt the two of them would have staged things the way they did. I also think scum!bessie-Madge would not have tunnelled one of their own buddies. There's similar pressure and suspicion on her throughout the game.

analyses a few people (me, mpolo, moody, LaserGuy), at Sabrar's requests, but only really finds moody suspicious, and there's not a huge amount of commitment there. He certainly never follows it up with a vote. Indeed, he says he prefers SDK and didn't find moody's recent content scummy towards the end of D2.

His D3 reads post has 3 people alive, and definitively labels 2 town, with no conclusion on LaserGuy (although it looks like he has no issues with him either).

That's all really where he posts concrete thoughts on still-living players, so aside from Madge, I don't think there's much to rule him out as a buddy from this angle. I'm going to take a quick skim of votes on him now.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:50 pm UTC
by Mark_Cangila
If no one can sum the points against moody, Wam looks pretty scumWam
Vote: Wam

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:51 pm UTC
by Mark_Cangila
Ebwop: scummy not scumWam
Sorry about that. My phone does that.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:54 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
@Mark - I recommend you take a quick look back at the reads lists posted by people like myself and LaserGuy, where we post our thoughts on different players, including moody. I'm not going to link them, for time's sake, but they aren't too many pages back.

Basic summary from the general feel on the thread is that he's not been all that committal on anybody.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:01 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
First four pages reviewing references to Mark, shows no strong pushes, except for from Madge (with a vote, admitted as her D1 tunnel), and to a lesser extent, moody, who had him as one of his top two scummiest. He follows it up later with a vote, which makes moody/Mark less likely as a scum team, since there weren't any clear wagons at this point. I'm not familiar with scum!moody strategy and whether he is someone who will bus a buddy early, without a good reason to.

Will continue posting what I can until deadline comes.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:16 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
On page 7, moody decided to unvote, which could be an indication he was bussing, and was deliberately taking a slight risk that nobody else would join in before another wagon formed. Until now, nobody else has viewed Mark as scummy, apart from me. And lots have him as townie.

Madge reviews her opinion on Mark a bit later, but still rules him as scummy. I really don't see her as a possible Mark-buddy.

By page 12, moody has completely swung away from his suspicions of Mark, now labelling him as town. By page 14, Mark is back to votable in his opinion. Not sure about that...

There's a bit of discussion on Mark on page 15 between plytho and BoomFrog as a possible SDK buddy, but nothing that really marks him as a possible buddy, given that scum would know SDK not to be scum.

That's it up to page 15 of solid suspicions or pushes on Mark, away from my own posts. Will try to get the remaining pages done before mods come online.

---

By the way, fruit vendor should probably still follow the plan I proposed on D2.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:20 pm UTC
by mpolo
Hmm... I made it back, but there isn't enough movement that I can change anything one way or the other. I guess I'm going to bed. (My computer is limping at the moment because of an ill-advised graphic file that I was trying to convert…)

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:24 pm UTC
by plytho
I've become increasingly suspicious of Wam. I don't like his progress on mark and he was a little too enthusiastic to doubt his read on me.

Jimbob pushed me on my logic, but wam's doubt is based purely on the 'slip' without even thinking.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:36 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
Page 16, BoomFrog votes Mark as an attempt at a non-SDK lynch, viewing him as generally scummy, but later switches to moody, along with SDK and me. Less likely to be buddy than the average person from this, but not definitive.

Hmm... by D3, I think it's pretty clear that scum might have decided to bus Mark, so I'm not sure there's much point in continuing this, but I'll see what I can manage...

plytho puts Mark in the suspicious pile, but later backs off a bit, and then back again..., before eventually voting him. wam thinks scum are lying low and promises to look at Mark again, but that hardly rules him out as suspicious. Moody labels him as an acceptable lynch target, and later votes him. mpolo labels him as an "IMPORTANT TO REVIEW" person, later pre-review saying he was inclined to vote him, before voting after the review. Later, he admits to being unsure on who his buddies are, and eventually unvotes him for this reason, although still marking him as a possible scum candidate. wam wants to lynch him mostly as a lurker, later voting him. BoomFrog throws him into the suspicious pile, but rules him out due to lack of buddies. LaserGuy, who has been viewing Mark as townie offers him up as a compromise choice, eventually voting him as "trusting plytho".

plytho's recent comments about Mark and mod-kills seems unlikely to come from a buddy of Mark.

So, I don't see plytho or Madge as Mark buddies, and moody is somewhat unlikely. That still leaves a possible wam/mpolo/Mark team, so I'm not too bothered by a Mark lynch. If he isn't scum, then I'll review the wam/mpolo/moody team.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Three

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:45 pm UTC
by Diemo
It was a cool, cloudless night. The gathering on Diemo’s back porch was lively, and overlooked the brightly lit neighborhood park. But it was getting late, and soon the park lights would dim for the night. The friends raised their voices so they could be heard over the noises of the busy street beyond the far wall, and as the discussion became more animated, so that they could be heard over each other.

The world is wide open for the young, something to investigate and explore, before the reality and responsibilities of life set in. At the age when they still believe they know everything, young people are determined not to make the stupid mistakes they made as children. But growing up is never easy, or straight forward, and all too often adults are fated to repeat the errors of their youth.


bessie: Well I think it has been so exciting, seeing so many of our old friends tonight! [speaks to Labrador Retriever] We will have to tell Sabrar all about it when we visit him next week.
Dog: Woof!
jimbobmacdoodle: Oh, err, bessie still visits Sabrar, at umm, that place?
Madge: It’s part of her therapy.
mpolo: What do they talk about, after all this time?
Madge: I’m pretty sure bessie does all the talking.
Dog: Woof!
LaserGuy: Hey my drink is empty.
plytho: I’ll go and grab another bottle. [goes inside house]
moody7277: Ok, so who did we decide is scum?
BoomFrog: I’m pretty sure it’s wam. I mean, he’s sort of always been sort of scummy.
wam: Yeah right like you’re always so innocent.
plytho: [returns to back porch] Jeez Diemo, what a stash! Did you knock over a liquor store?
Diemo: I like to be prepared.
jimbobmacdoodle: [shouts across the yard to Mark, who is having a heated arguement with someone on his phone] So Mark, are you going to join the discussion or not?
Mark_Cangila: [snaps back] I’ll be there in a bit. I’m busy.
BoomFrog: Well hurry up, the pizza should be here soon.
plytho: Let’s just vote for Mark, and then he can just sit in the corner and argue with his girlfriend all night.
moody7277: [sneering] Don’t you mean his ex-girlfriend.
Mark_Cangila: [furiously typing on his phone] I said I would be there in a bit. Leave me alone.
wam: Forget it Mark you’re getting voted out next away.
Mark_Cangila: [returns to the group] Ok well, fine. I’ve been putting up with your crap since we were kids. [shoves wam]
mpolo: [sternly] That behavior is totally uncalled for. You’re getting voted out of the game, just sit back and cool off.
Mark_Cangila: I don’t need to stay here and listen to this. I don’t need to put up with your crap any more.

[Mark picks up a whisky bottle and flings it at wam, missing his head by inches. The bottle shatters as it hits the ground and whisky spills out onto the concrete. Mark runs through the gate for his car, and drives off into the night without looking back.]

Madge: [chasing after him] Mark come back here, what are you thinking?
Diemo: [surveying the remains of the bottle] Yeah that was almost a full one! Next time grab an empty!

Official Votals:
moody7277 (2) : BoomFrog, jimbobmacdoodle
Mark_Cangila (4) : moody7277, plytho, wam, LaserGuy
wam(1): Mark_Cangila

Not Voting (2) : Madge, mpolo


Mark has been lynched. Deadline is Friday morning 10AM GMT +2, but I will adjudicate early if everyone agrees

Oops

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:37 pm UTC
by Diemo
Totes didn't hit the wrong button. Totes I say :shock: :roll:

Re: Meta Mafia II:Night Three

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:12 am UTC
by wam
Is that meant to be gmt + 2?

Re: Meta Mafia II:Night Three

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:24 am UTC
by Diemo
It was a cool, clear night. Winter was fast approaching. A small group of former childhood companions, some of them visiting the old neighborhood that they had left years before, gathered at their friend Diemo’s house. Since the air was cool, but not cold, the gathering moved to the back porch, overlooking the little neighborhood park at the end of the street. Sometimes gathering with old friends was an exhilarating experience, an evening of fun and good conversation. But sometimes meeting old friends stirred up old memories and feelings that are better left burried.

LaserGuy: Why is this class reunion being held so late this year? Why wasn’t it held in August or something?
moody7277: The reunion committee was exceptionally disorganized, as usual.
LaserGuy: I wasn’t really interested in going, but hey someone called and asked me.
wam: Oh it doesn’t matter we’re here now and after the reunion tomorrow night some of us will go off and it may be years before we get together again!
mpolo: Madge, you look great. I swear you haven’t aged a day. Neither has bessie.
bessie: Oh that’s silly! Of course we have! Especially Madge.
Madge: [ignoring bessie] Thanks mpolo! It seems the old neighborhood hasn’t changed much either. I see they still haven’t widened the bike lanes by the grade school. I should bring that up to the planning commission.
bessie: Yes, that crosswalk is dangerous too! We almost got hit the other day by a car making a right hand turn.
Dog: Woof!
moody7277: Coming back here to me is always like visiting the past. bessie always has the same dog. bessie, why do all your dogs look alike?
bessie: What are you talking about? I only have one dog.
moody7277: I mean you always get the same kind of dog. The dog you have now looks just like the dog you had when we were kids, and like the ones you had when we were teenagers, and in college.
bessie: It’s the same dog.
LaserGuy: There is no way that is the same dog.
bessie: Of course it’s the same dog.
LaserGuy: Dogs don’t live for three dozen-odd years.
bessie: This one has. I take good care of her, like SDK told me to. I feed her premium dog food. I stay current with her shots.
BoomFrog: [laughing uncomfortably] Haha, I think bessie is having issues with her memory!
Madge: [mumbling] I think bessie is having issues with reality.
mpolo: [quickly changing the subject] So jimbob, how’s your work? Still banging out code all day?
jimbobmacdoodle: Meh, same as usual. Where is plytho anyway? He said he was coming.
Diemo: He couldn’t make it. His flight was canceled.
mpolo: Why didn’t the airline just reschedule him on the next available flight?
Diemo: It seems that there was a problem with the plane's engine, and several planes were grounded, so he wasn’t able to get another flight. There were no other available flights.
Madge: Hmm, I wonder if there are any parts that bessie designed in that engine.
bessie: Oh, that would be a funny coincidence, wouldn’t it?
jimbobmacdoodle: Yeah, a funny coincidence! Uh, bessie, your job sounds fascinating! What airplanes have you made parts for? Do you have a list?
wam: I would be interested in that list too I fly a lot for work.
BoomFrog: Hey, Diemo, why is my wine glass empty? So, any ideas for something interesting to talk about? [leans over and whispers to Diemo] Like, something else?
Diemo: I have an idea. First of all, does everyone have a full glass? Now, remember that game we used to play when we were kids…

Flavor inspiration


Mark_Cangila has driven off into the night. He was a vanilla townie.

plytho's plane was grounded. He was the town even-night tracker.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:33 am UTC
by wam
Right so lylo.

I stand by what I said in gojoe overnight. With Mark it would have been very easy for scum to push a mis lynch. So whilst losing another townie is bad at least we did it before lylo.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:33 am UTC
by Diemo
Oh yeah. LYLO

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:40 am UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
Very well, I guess that means we're in LYLO. Plytho as the kill isn't really a surprise, but him also being our tracker is unfortunate, since it would have been useful for us to have an additional confirmed townie at this point. Also, I believe his flip definitively confirms our setup (no more messing about worrying whether Madge lied...). Contrary to perhaps popular wisdom, I'm inclined to think that it might be better for the fruit vendor to NOT claim at this point, until there is a clear statement of intention from one(?) or more people to vote them. Otherwise, if we succeed in voting scum, they'll just die tonight.

Anyway, I don't think those flips make any difference to my opinion that scum is likely {wam, moody, mpolo}, so I think I need to start doing a team analysis of them.

Just as an FYI, I am away camping with family over the weekend, so I don't know how much, if any, time I'll get to post.

@ninja-wam - I feel like you are not looking to be in a great position yourself...

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:45 am UTC
by wam
Yeah I know but don't waste your time on that he analysis.

I'm the fruit vendor.

I agree with your point about avoiding claiming if possible, but I am undoubtedly going to be a prime suspect today and want to focus players on actual scum.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:49 am UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
Okay, could you claim your targets, please, and what you gave Madge.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:56 am UTC
by wam
I gave Madge a pineapple.

The rest of the targets I'm going to sit on in case anyone counter claims.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:04 am UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
wam wrote:The rest of the targets I'm going to sit on in case anyone counter claims.
I'm not sure I get how this helps? I assume you followed the plan I suggested on D2?

Also, assuming you are the fruit vendor, I apologise for coming up with the plan instead of you as I imagine that would allow Madge to have known you were town otherwise. :D

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:10 am UTC
by wam
May or may not have. Even if I did follow plans any potential scum counter claim doesn't know my targets.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
Also, assuming you are the fruit vendor, I apologise for coming up with the plan instead of you as I imagine that would allow Madge to have known you were town otherwise. :D


That was my plan.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:20 am UTC
by Madge
Confirm pineapple. I breadcrumbed in my first post yesterday, only I used the Thai word for pineapple to be mysterious. Will show and proper post when I get to a computer tomorrow.

Someone needs to see if plytho crumbed target d3

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:18 am UTC
by wam
Madge wrote:.

Someone needs to see if plytho crumbed target d3


Had a quick look can't see anything

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:55 am UTC
by moody7277
Madge wrote:Confirm pineapple. I breadcrumbed in my first post yesterday, only I used the Thai word for pineapple to be mysterious. Will show and proper post when I get to a computer tomorrow.

Someone needs to see if plytho crumbed target d3


Not that this is an accusation, but you did point out (twice) that just because you definitely got a fruit and aren't lying about it doesn't mean you're not scum. It also appears to have done exactly what we had hoped for in terms of clearing wam.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:27 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
moody7277 wrote:
Madge wrote:Confirm pineapple. I breadcrumbed in my first post yesterday, only I used the Thai word for pineapple to be mysterious. Will show and proper post when I get to a computer tomorrow.

Someone needs to see if plytho crumbed target d3


Not that this is an accusation, but you did point out (twice) that just because you definitely got a fruit and aren't lying about it doesn't mean you're not scum.
What exactly are you getting at here then moody? I don't think even Madge claimed that this clears her as town. What's your opinion on Madge's confusion surrounding the setup table versus descriptions?

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:44 pm UTC
by mpolo
So, my reading of plytho was right, but I have wam in my scummy pile, which means I am incompetent here.

Madge revealing her fruit is essentially a null-tell, I think. It would be pretty risky for scum to sit on that information.

This weekend, I've got some re-reading to do.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:59 pm UTC
by Madge
moody7277 wrote:
Madge wrote:Confirm pineapple. I breadcrumbed in my first post yesterday, only I used the Thai word for pineapple to be mysterious. Will show and proper post when I get to a computer tomorrow.

Someone needs to see if plytho crumbed target d3


Not that this is an accusation, but you did point out (twice) that just because you definitely got a fruit and aren't lying about it doesn't mean you're not scum. It also appears to have done exactly what we had hoped for in terms of clearing wam.


I never claimed to be a good scum hunter but I can work out the obvious implications of powers. Something happening the way I said it would is because I am clever and lucky, nothing more.

It's frankly ridiculous you'd even bring it up?

If you don't trust my confirmation of wam even with a revealed breadcrumb then go for it.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:11 pm UTC
by moody7277
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:What's your opinion on Madge's confusion surrounding the setup table versus descriptions?


In my read through of her, I didn't make a big deal of it at the time. I am guessing that plytho figured that since Madge didn't automatically know which PR scum have, she couldn't be scum. I'm not sure it's as cut and dried as that; her confusion could be genuine even were she to be scum.

ninja'd by Madge: I'm not sure what you're driving at here. It was more than just you who said fruit vendor claiming at LYLO would be the plan. It worked even better since he was under suspicion D3. You being truthful about getting fruit from wam is not what I have an issue with, but it only gives us data on wam.

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:05 pm UTC
by BoomFrog
Wow, Mark is town, what a shock! Who could have possibly predicted that?!? Can we just lynch moody and want now? They are so blatantly sc...

wam wrote:I'm the fruit vendor.


Wait what? :shock:

I need to think about this. Hypothetical real fruit vendor should not counter claim. I'm pretty sure we can out or confirm wam without a counter claim. Although I'm 80% sure wam is telling the truth because that's a hard claim to fake.

@wam why did you choose Madge N1?

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:51 pm UTC
by BoomFrog
Huh... Having two listed might end up being helpful haha.

I think this reveals the minimum information to scum wam while also confirming town wam.

Is at least one other fruit recipient alive? Did you give them your signal fruit? (A tangerine or a lemon)

Re: Meta Mafia II: Day 4

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:52 pm UTC
by wam
BoomFrog wrote:
@wam why did you choose Madge N1?


Because I know Madge likes night results to analyse.