Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

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Sabrar
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:01 am UTC

bessie wrote:Why did mpolo see me on N1? Shouldn’t I have been a ninja-tracker?
For mpolo's false-claim to work (getting the Sash from people who visit him) it is needed that he should be able to see the Sash-holder despite Ninja. One of the many exceptions in the interactions between roles.

Vicarin wrote:Yes, but if you've got the choice of doing something that decreases town's win chances from 90% to 80% while increasing your chances of a Sash win from 0% to 50% assuming Town wins, should you do it?
But you're in no situation to accurately assess those probabilities. As Town you are not sure who scum is, who holds the Sash, when game will end, etc.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:58 am UTC

Thanks for the game Madge and Sabrar. I had a lot of fun. I think the setup worked well, and I enjoyed the heist mechanic.

BoomFrog, you are the Ultimate Mammal (Amphibian?) Genius. That being said, I was very impressed in how spectacularly well Zen's message gambit N1 worked.

Thanks everyone else for playing too.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:57 am UTC

Congrats BoomFrog! To think you were that close to getting lynched D1.
I hope you like the avatar, I don't think I'll edit it but feel free to do so yourself :)

I feel the sash definitely added to the game. Sure, it influences the town-scum play, perhaps giving town a slight handicap. But balance in mafia isn't an exact science. Adding the sash is kind of like giving scum an extra power that confuses town. Not null, but not as strong as having an extra mafia member.

Congrats to the rest of town!

Especially Mark, saving and lynching right all game.

In order of disappearance:

mpolo: You got surprisingly close to victory given all the people that targeted you with messy powers, impressive!

Bessie: sorry we didn't get to play together for longer. I'm sure we'd have been able to talk things out :)

Zenii: You really play this game at another level. I could have never used that messaging power as well as you. The bulletproof claim was another touch of genius. On top of that, you figured out the game on D3.

Vicarin: I was impressed by the bussing play you and somi performed. Next time, don't leave Boomfrog and Zen alive too long.

somitomi: Nice bussing, you had BoomFrog fooled for a while.

LaserGuy: Thanks for taking that second look at Vicarin. Solid game! (Why didn't you copy paste my line, though? :wink: )

jimbob: the other mislynch, I guess our similarity now extends beyond our reasoning :D
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby mpolo » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:07 am UTC

I was amazed to have survived that long. If bessie hadn't blocked me, I would have won, I think. With an awkward Day 5 and 6 where neither of us can do anything, of course.

Sorry for the real-life things keeping me out so much.

I should have realized that Zenii was sending the silly messages because of the visit information. But both messages ended in "woof", so I was convinced that it was either bessie or BoomFrog (but I had already primed Bessie N1).

And I really wanted to see the flavor from my "ignite". Apparently a dance troupe was going to come and knock bessie, Mark and Zenii out with their wild moves.

Thanks for the game, Sabrar and Madge.

Congrats to town. With the three left standing at the end, even if I hadn't tried to find my "partner", I was pretty much cooked.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby somitomi » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:31 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:Oh yeah, Mafia chat is here I guess (I'm assuming somitomi's ok with this being shared, will remove instantly otherwise) https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/rtUM4UMHmPe

I'm fine with it, you can show the world how you did all the work even in the Mafia chat.
plytho wrote:somitomi: Nice bussing, you had BoomFrog fooled for a while.

That was the one thing I did right and it was a lucky mistake of miscounting the votes. Otherwise I was pretty useless and made it worse with some idiotic mistakes.
Of course bessie saw through me the moment she entered the game...

Editet at typo, hope that's okay
Last edited by somitomi on Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:11 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby wam » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:15 pm UTC

Somi sorry you had to replace in as scum day1! Already under suspicion.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby Madge » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:23 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:And I really wanted to see the flavor from my "ignite". Apparently a dance troupe was going to come and knock bessie, Mark and Zenii out with their wild moves.


I'm so glad you did it! The Halloween Heist episodes often have a bunch of people in identical costumes (once was pizza delivery people, once was "royal baby" costumes) enter the bullpen, create a diversion, and perform a crucial function. It seemed like a natural fit for a dance troupe to do, so flavour-wise we gave the Arsonist to Gina.

You played so well, mpolo! I was on the edge of my seat doing the calculations in gojoe trying to work out if you had a shot.

The Ali G costumes were purely for the pun that plytho suggested. :wink:

Actually, I should quickly go into the flavour justification for each role, since although alignment wasn't flavour-determined (really no reason for Jake and Terry to work together), we made the roles (mostly) flavour-justified (as long as you squint like a lot).

Cheddar - Loudener - Sabrar came up with the loudener role at the last minute, we were tossing up between including Cheddar or Bill (Boyle's body double who sells MLM products) as the 10th character, loudener fit better with a dog, so Cheddar was born.

Amy - Seraph Knight/Messenger - Amy focuses a lot on things, is a bit stubborn (but in a good way?), so Seraph Knight, who only protects one person all game, seemed a good fit. Messenger was due to her obsession with stationary.

Boyle - Baby Sitter - This is where Baby Sitter fit, though Boyle does have a young son, so it kinda fits?

Scully - Singing Cop - Scully can sing opera. As he's a very 1D character we settled on this right away.

Hitchcock - Roleblocker - Hitchcock is always taking his shirt off, which is distracting. nuff said.

Holt - Backup/tracker - Commander should be able to do any sub-role?

Rosa - Vig - She has lots of weapons, so natural vig. One-shot to nerf. Female-only to encourage her to be careful with her single shot; also kept Gina immune while still hitting both Mafia, just worked out that way.

Jake - Framer/Follower - Jake is always making up fake aliases for him and his colleagues when they "go undercover", so it seemed to fit. This was why he became scum.

Terry - Strongman/JAOT - Terry is literally a strong man. This is why he became scum.

Gina - Arsonist / Self watcher - as discussed, she's involved in dance troupes so would feasibly be able to get some people to dance (okay, Floorgasm did break up, but let's not get into that). Self-watcher because she's obsessed with herself. We also suggested to mpolo that if he thought the self-watcher looked too weak in claiming, he could claim that he can one-shot kill someone who has never visited him (since that would make sense as a flavour thing). He obviously went a different track after he was tracked twice.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:17 pm UTC

Shout outs:

zenii - Always good to have you around. You played an epic game.

Vicarin - Very nicely played. You guys had some bad luck with blocked kills (thanks Mark!) but you played very solidly and just managed to keep yourself from being under too much suspicion by too many players for most of the game. I think you could have easily won this one if things had rolled a bit differently.
Biggest regret this game: not having somitomi do a Strongman kill N1 (though that would have been risky). Also, had been considering going for killing bessie and framing LaserGuy N1 which would have worked out a loooooot better in retrospect (oh, your cop result was given to the NK? How convenient for you...).


Well, framing me could have produced some hilarious results if you hadn't killed my target since I would have ended up with a mafia result on mpolo. Would have simplified things a lot :)

moody - Hope to see you again soon.

bessie - I feel like we were kind of working in different directions this game so never really got to interact with you, but I really enjoyed your play this game. You also did a really admirable job of replacing in late and getting right into the game. No hard feelings about stealing the sash N1, right? :D

wam - Be careful of those spoilers :P

somitomi - It was a shame you didn't have time to play more, but FWIW I thought you were Town until I died.

plytho - Sorry you were lynched N1. You were on the right track from the start and never let up. I need to learn to read you better, apparently :P

Mpolo - I'm a little alarmed to learn that your scum game looks just like your Town game. You had this won except for the mechanics of Zen's Seraph Knight that you had no control over. Very well done.

Jimbobmacdoodle - Somehow you always get voted off as Town and never get voted off as scum and I don't understand it :P

Boomfrog - All Hail the Ultimate Mammal Genius! You deserve the double win, you played really fantastically this game.

Mark_Cangila - Thanks for saving me N1 :) You played very solid this game.

Sabrar and Madge: Thanks for hosting! The flavor was great and the roles and mechanics were very interesting and creative.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby moody7277 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:37 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:moody - Hope to see you again soon.


Already signed up for Christmas. All hail the Ultimate Mammal Genius!
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby Mark_Cangila » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:57 pm UTC

Good job UMG! This was a great game. The last daty was surprisingly fast. If Mpolo hadn't voted for me I probably would've voted boom.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:36 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:I think my issue with the Sash wincon is that can allow some very, very stupid endgame situations if people are being really selfish. Not that she ever would, but if bessie had tried to block BoomFrog on N4 and I was playing as Town, I'd be very, very unimpressed with her play (compared to blocking mpolo) even if there was the excuse of trying to go for the Sash.

I think with the uncertainty of the situation Bessie played perfectly. Only zenii, plytho and me had powers that could be used for sash hunting without hurting town too much. And even I should only do it if I'm sure it's the last night (which I messed up). I liked the added dynamic that the sash added to the game. And ultimately all mafia mechanics should have the goal of "something interesting to discuss D1" which the sash did perfectly.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby Vicarin » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:28 pm UTC

Oh yeah, also found it amusing that people thought I wanted the Sash. I was trying to avoid it like the plague, random NKs for a mafia member is not what you want. Also easily traceable if the Sash wearer gets NKed, which we had to do N2...

If bessie had claimed N1 I'd just steer clear of trying to target her the entire game.

Maybe someone will finally believe me when I say I'm suspicious of mpolo :P.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:17 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:Maybe someone will finally believe me when I say I'm suspicious of mpolo :P.

Oh, everyone was super suspicious of mpolo. But we thought he could be roleblocked.

@mpolo: Did you not prime me because of the messaging thing or because you thought I'd get lynched?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby mpolo » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:16 am UTC

Because of the message thing. I also was pretty sure you didn't have a kill, so if we had ended up with just the two of us, I should have won (after 2 days of pointlessness).
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:26 pm UTC

That makes sense.

I hearby declare Zenii the second greatest mammal genius. But I think we all already knew that. Thanks for the assist. ;)
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby Zenii » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:40 pm UTC

Madge/Sabrar: Great setup. These Halloween games have been some of my favorites. The sash mechanic was interesting and challenging. The main thing I would have changed is that there were too many hidden variables regarding the transfer mechanism. Although I figured it was distributed randomly if multiple people targeted it, I think making that known would have been more fair. I don't think mpolo's safe claim was too weak, I thought it was excellent. You had made it known that there were other ways of getting the sash, so I'm pretty sure everyone saw his claim as NAI.

You definitely have to play differently with the mechanic. I'm not certain why Vic is claiming that to be a bad thing though. It's just extremely challenging, and requires you to do dirty things. Sabrar, the reason why I didn't outright reveal my message is because my play wasn't optimized toward winning, it was optimized toward winning with the sash. I wanted my message ability to remain obscure if possible so that if I ended up stealing the sash from someone, they wouldn't be able to trace it to me.

The mafia roles were particularly well done, especially somi's. I 100% agree with giving mafia strong roles. I think mafia tends to be pretty weak in general. They should be given ways to play strategically against town PRs. I also very much enjoyed my role. It's one of my favorite that I've been. The night action flavor was also a nice touch!


Vicarin: Ever the elusive one. Great job at maintaining yourself under pressure.

moody7277: I was looking forward to playing with you and was sorry to see you go. This would have been our first time on the same side!

bessie: Thanks a ton for replacing in and that epic catch up D1! I was incredibly paranoid about your alignment D2 and on. Mainly I was surprised by how willing you were to claim.

wam: dat meta

somitomi: Thanks for replacing in and keeping the role alive despite being so busy!

plytho: I've come away from this game still not knowing how to read you! I did feel like it was going to be a mislynch in the end and I was considering switching to Boom, but I decided against it as I felt bad blindsiding him. Furthermore, I considered you a threat regardless of your alignment. The reason why I made my proposal to give the sash to indy was to fish out which players were playing toward the second wincon. I felt that you and Boom were the most likely to be playing in this manner, so I felt that executing you was a win-win.

LaserGuy: Your in-depth read lists are a thing of beauty :). Hearing what you have to say is always highly anticipated. Sorry I detracted from the Vic lynch in the end D2. I think we'd benefit from talking out our reads in the future. I think you could have convinced me on plytho town and I think we both could have came to lynching either mpolo or somi D1.

Mpolo: I was delighted to see that both bessie and Boom targeted you N1! I do think you could have still won had you not given up. Mark was convinced that you were town before your vote.

Jimbobmacdoodle: I thought your silliness at the end of D2 was scumJim who was cutting his losses. I was expecting townJim to be more disgruntled. In hindsight, this is exactly what I was looking for. I'd like to think that if I had the time, I would have picked up on it, but probably not. You're a tough one to iron out.

Boomfrog: Your talent for picking out nuance is insane. From crossover I thought your lack of ignorance was due to being scum, but you really are a mind reader. Looking through your Gojoe posts, it's hilarious to me how (benevolently) manipulative you are.

Mark_Cangila: Excellent moves all game. I feel you were the most stable town component this game. Without your laser save, things probably would have gone quite differently. What were your speculating my role was? A recruiter who died if they targeted scum? My actual intention of claiming that I'd die if mpolo did was to make him a target for scum. I was hoping that scum would either block me and kill you two or just gamble for mpolo kill directly. Unfortunately, this backfired and ended up saving him :|

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby Mark_Cangila » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:07 pm UTC

Zenii wrote:.

Mark_Cangila: Excellent moves all game. I feel you were the most stable town component this game. Without your laser save, things probably would have gone quite differently. What were your speculating my role was? A recruiter who died if they targeted scum? My actual intention of claiming that I'd die if mpolo did was to make him a target for scum. I was hoping that scum would either block me and kill you two or just gamble for mpolo kill directly. Unfortunately, this backfired and ended up saving him :|

I was sure you were a mentor of some sort.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby bessie » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:40 am UTC

Shout outs:

moody7277 – I should have played D1 as your meta but I thought about it too late. Too bad I could have saved plytho from the lynch. :wink:

plytho – It’s just not a game unless I get to tunnel on you. :P But yes, I think we could have worked everything out if we had another half hour.

jimbobmacdoodle – Hmm, I’m concerned that you and I are never going to work things out. We’re always in conflict, unless we’re scum together then we’re best buds in the world.

wam – I knew knew knew it from your confirmation post. Why didn’t you plan for me replacing? I was on the replacement list.

somitomi – Thanks for subbing in, I know you were trying to skip D1 and all, and I felt kinda bad that I wasn’t available earlier to take the mafia spot instead of you.
somitomi wrote:Of course bessie saw through me the moment she entered the game...
It wasn't you, I had already narrowed in on wam. Sorry for never really giving you a chance to convince me otherwise, but I’m secretly pleased you fell for my claiming gambit. 8-)

Mark_Cangila – You really played an amazing game, you picked the right targets, and your claims created just the right kind of confusion to enable town to win.

LaserGuy – Not sure why you think this:
LaserGuy wrote:I feel like we were kind of working in different directions this game
Hmm, I sorta feel the opposite. I “knew” it was you that sent me the cop result. Was it BoomFrog or someone else that said somewhere (Gojoe?) that I should have pretended the cop result was mine and tried to draw the NK, I totally would have done that but my little puppy brain didn’t think of it in time.

mpolo – Interesting, one of the reasons I targeted you N1 was that I thought no one else would (I thought everything was going to hit Zen and BoomFrog because, well, they are Is Zen and Is BoomFrog). Oops, it seems my secret fear of your considerable abilities has spread to others. Now if I could only get everyone to heed my warnings about the dangers of Madge. . .

Vicarin – You and I have a way to go before we find our understanding, but we’ll eventually get there. It took me and LaserGuy, hmmm, about a year and a half. :P

Zenii – Your remarkable content drew me in as I struggled to make it through my difficulties replacing on D1, and inspired me to do my best. I don’t always understand the magic of Zen, but that’s how it should be.

BoomDog – You will always be my woof. Unfortunately, you’ll also always be my woof woof. Perhaps, like Zen said, you can indeed read minds, but you don’t need to read my mind to know how I feel about playing with you, it’s written all over this forum. <3

Special thanks to Madge, the master of writing entertaining flavor quickly, and to Sabrar, the master of entertaining game design.


Some game notes.
Madge wrote: I'd also put the Sash win con in the role PM itself to stop any confusion. Can't believe I didn't think of "my precious" type flavour for the Sash as Bessie intimated there should have been. Maybe next year! :wink:
I think perhaps your mistake was that you thought the motivation for players would be obvious because of your familiarity with the TV show (guessing here because I’m flavor blind). I could see no motivation to actively try to posses the sash from the flavor in the thread or that I received privately.
BoomFrog wrote: Men [and labrador retrievers] cannot fathom the greed of dwarves [and corgis].
FIFY.

Sabrar wrote:Let's look at the Sash-related win-con in more detail. It states that you need to possess the Sash at the end of the game.
This probably should have been explicit for all players, not implied. Because there was no clearly defined sash win con, and no explicit flavor motivation to do so, I deduced that it must be part of the non-town win condition. The assumption for town is that the town win condition is the primary goal, anything else should be a bonus.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:39 pm UTC

Madge wrote:
Heist and other miscellaneous rules:
2. Possessing the Sash at the end of the game is an additional win equivalent to the standard goal, not just a secondary win-con

It was explicit. But as Madge said, could have been more explicit if it was in each role PM under win conditions. I think most people don't have flavor knowledge, it was about that one rule (and the D1 mod clarifications).

That said, how much it affects your behavior should be based on how confident one is that their action isn't otherwise needed for town to win. Which means almost never. The only reason things got cutthroat is that Zenii and I thought that a roleblock could keep the threat contained.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

Postby wam » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:02 pm UTC

bessie wrote:

wam – I knew knew knew it from your confirmation post. Why didn’t you plan for me replacing? I was on the replacement list.



Note to self don't even drunk confirmation post!
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