The Mafia with the Golden Gun (Day 007 End & Epilogue)

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Sabrar
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:55 pm UTC

Current votables: freezeblade, Mark
Gentlemen, make your cases.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby moody7277 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:44 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Hey moody, why didn't you comment on the NL?


We all know how I feel about D1 NL, you've lampshaded it in a previous game (would have to search for exactly which), so I think at this point it'd be redundant.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby freezeblade » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:40 pm UTC

Make my case on what exactly?
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

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Sabrar
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:42 pm UTC

To not be lynched.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby freezeblade » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:50 pm UTC

How about you start with what makes me "votable" ?

It's the early part of D1 FFS, and there's nearly no content, let alone enough to be "votable"
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby plytho » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:22 pm UTC

I think I kind of see what wam meant with the NL. I myself was thinking a D0 might fit this game. The crucial difference between the two is the NK, which is an odd thing to ignore.
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bessie
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby bessie » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:57 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:bessie's opening is pretty standard, town until further notice.
Standard how? Because I covered most of the topics in your “bessie OP checklist”? You were suspicious of me in Secret Santa for “confirming my opening analysis to my [Sabrar’s] ‘expectations’” . Why was I suspicious for it before, but town now?

Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:Yeah I have read the rules twice and I'm not sure.
What are you not sure about? Why not ask?
wam wrote:The best strategies! Can't really ask the mod that one!!
Re your reply to Sabrar: Are you serious? You’re just putting down words, aren’t you?

FoS wam. Probably scum.

plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:Perhaps it’s not balanced for seven.
What do you mean?
Another guy that’s juat putting down words. You haven’t even read the content. Or you have, but it’s like you’re not trying analyze and figure things out. You’re just trying to survive, aren’t you?

Double FoS plytho. Probably indie.

Mark_Cangila wrote:Naturalness is NAI for me on things like setup spec.
And as I’ve mentioned in previous games, pretty soon it’s not going to be a safe place for you to hide any more.

somitomi wrote:How did my confirmation post earn me second place on the prestigious Woof-Grrr list?
Are you even reading or are you on autopilot? Your confirmation post had nothing to do with it.
bessie wrote:bessie’s standard Woof-Grrr based on no content whatsoever:
[for background see this post, second spoiler.]

The reason you’re so high on the list is that LaserGuy isn’t playing, so everyone else in this game is scummier than you by default. This game has one of the scummiest player lists of any game I’ve ever played. But I’m probably moving you down in the next list revision for your active lurking.

freezeblade wrote:It's the early part of D1 FFS, and there's nearly no content, let alone enough to be "votable"
I found quite a bit of votabale-worthy content right on the first page. And you know, if you think we need more content to make an informed decision, how about posting some content? How about some opinions or reads, or even better how about an ordered town-scum list before you disappear for the remainder of D1? You must have an opinion on something.

What's your opinion on this?

Vote: No Lynch

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Sabrar
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:01 am UTC

bessie wrote:Standard how? Because I covered most of the topics in your “bessie OP checklist”?
It has nothing to do with the checklist and you should know it (public tell meaning zilch going forward and all that). It's about the level of your aggression.

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SuicideJunkie
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:43 am UTC

Votals:
  • No Lynch <-(1)- Bessie

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plytho
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby plytho » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:09 am UTC

bessie wrote:You haven’t even read the content. Or you have, but it’s like you’re not trying analyze and figure things out.
I'm trying and failing. I'm having trouble getting baseline reads from my phone. Should be better when I get to a computer tonight.

I like what you and Sabrar are doing. Everyone else is murky so far.
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:59 am UTC

Vote: Mark_Cangila

Let's start with a lurker.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby wam » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:52 am UTC

To explain NL more

We have 8 players so 2 anti town mist likely. Given that we are likely to end up at mylo so would NL. Doing itearleir gives us more opportunity to use powers etc.

Other aspect was to hang it out there and see who jumped on it. As it's an easy D1 read for scum. So FOS freeze who jumped on it without even seeming to do sides it.
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:50 pm UTC

bessie wrote:
Mark_Cangila wrote:Naturalness is NAI for me on things like setup spec.
And as I’ve mentioned in previous games, pretty soon it’s not going to be a safe place for you to hide any more.


No, I mean I don't think that other being natural in setup spec is townie.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:55 pm UTC

I'm liking NL because of the points Wam mentioned. The setup is wild enough that waiting for powers is optimal.
Vote: NL

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Sabrar
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:11 pm UTC

As I've explained in the past early NL is correct mathematically if all of these conditions apply:
- there are an even number of players. Check.
- we are guaranteed of 1 kill / night. Not check. While I really doubt we have SK, there could be Vig or other mechanic.
- no weird indies screwing up math. Not check. Closed setup could mean a lot of things.

Just because we are even doesn't mean that it's a good idea to NL immediately.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby moody7277 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:22 pm UTC

wam talking about it was enough to make me itchy, but bessie actually going through with it, and Mark following along? :roll:

btw, thanks Sabrar for codifying the usually implicit rules on no lynching

Vote: Mark_Cangila
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby plytho » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:51 pm UTC

Yeah, no-lynch is terrible.
There is no evidence for this:
wam wrote:we are likely to end up at mylo

because of what sabrar said + a whole bunch of powers that might block kills.

Bessie's vote looked more like a taunt, so I'm more ok with her vote than with mark's. Wam is kind of inbetween. Proposing a bad idea but not actually following it is kind of scummy, as is this
wam wrote:Other aspect was to hang it out there and see who jumped on it.
You can't say it was just a test and defend the idea at the same time.
The last line just confuses me. (the fos is pretty clear but the last words make no sense)
wam wrote:So FOS freeze who jumped on it without even seeming to do sides it.


I have no read on Freezeblade.

I like moody's vote. It feels quite direct for moody, especially this early (I know it's quite late already, the timing of this D1 is confusing.)

Somi is null.

Lot's of inattentive people so far, moody, Mark and me missing the fact that there are 8 players, somi missing that bessie's list was generic.

town
plytho
Sabrar
moody

Freezeblade
somitomi
bessie

wam
Mark
scum

Not going to vote mark just yet.
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:21 pm UTC

Votals (target = 4):
  • No-Lynch <--(2)
    • Bessie
    • Mark_Cangila
  • Mark_Cangila <--(2)
    • Sabrar
    • Moody7277

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:56 pm UTC

Yeah, as said above, NL is no good, just because there is an even number of players doesn't mean it's suddenly the best option.

vote: Mark_Cangila

Because a lurker lynch is better than NL.
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:38 pm UTC

I would at least argue holding back on me. L-1 is a bit too close for comfort. Also, I lurked for about 1 page, so I wouldn't exactly call it a lurker lynch.

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Mark_Cangila
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:45 pm UTC

Also, how am I a lurker? Sabrar called me that after 17 posts and 14 hours of no posting. That really isn't much.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:05 pm UTC

Isn't it L-2? we have 8 players, so 5 to lynch, you have 3 votes.
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plytho
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby plytho » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:05 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:Isn't it L-2? we have 8 players, so 5 to lynch, you have 3 votes.

SuicideJunkie wrote:Votals (target = 4):
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:11 pm UTC

Hey folks, I'm about to sign off from work for the weekend, as I'm moving this weekend! (spoiler for details)
Spoiler:
From East Oakland (the sketchy zone) to Berkeley Hills (Much nicer). So I'm super stoked, moving into a complex with family, what used to be the old commune, now split into apartments, should be a fun adventure, as I'm essentially taking up the role of "Uncle next door" to a 3 year old and a 4 year old.


I'll try my best to sign in and check from my phone at least once this weekend.

Ninja:plytho, oh. That's what happens when one assumes. I'm unsure if I should un-vote or not in that case, as I'm essentially gone until deadline, minus maybe one signin.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

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Sabrar
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:39 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:Also, how am I a lurker? Sabrar called me that after 17 posts and 14 hours of no posting. That really isn't much.
So what exactly did you contribute to finding scum? You can have plenty of posts but if you don't actually do anything then you're a lurker.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby somitomi » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:27 pm UTC

I'm against NL, Sabrar has explained quite nicely when it's actually viable.
bessie wrote:Are you even reading or are you on autopilot? Your confirmation post had nothing to do with it.

I should remember to clearly label my jokes as such...
plytho wrote:Bessie's vote looked more like a taunt, so I'm more ok with her vote than with mark's. Wam is kind of inbetween. Proposing a bad idea but not actually following it is kind of scummy, as is this
wam wrote:Other aspect was to hang it out there and see who jumped on it.
You can't say it was just a test and defend the idea at the same time.

I think proposing bad ideas or not following through with it after half the players go "are yu nuts!?" isn't alignment indicative. NL (and the ensuing argument) in particular seems to pop up on D1 quite often. Good point about defending the idea while calling it a test though.
Mark_Cangila wrote:Also, how am I a lurker? Sabrar called me that after 17 posts and 14 hours of no posting. That really isn't much.

Far be it from me to call anyone out for low content, but you haven't said much. You could reply to this question for example:
somitomi wrote:Why would indie!moody avoid mentioning indies though? Sooner or later someone will and they're not so rare that uttering "there might be an indie" automatically earns you a suspected indie badge.


Imrpessions right now:
TOWN
bessie
sabrar
plytho
moody
wam
mark
freezeblade
SCUM
Image
—◯‐◯ FG Discord

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:02 am UTC

I don't see any reason for Moody to mention it, and on the low chance he successfully convinces people, he is better off. I think he could successfully do it too. It doesn't make him not an indie.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:34 am UTC

Votals (target = 4):
  • Mark_Cangila <--(3)
    • Sabrar
    • Moody7277
    • Freezeblade
  • No-Lynch <--(2)
    • Bessie
    • Mark_Cangila

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby bessie » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:58 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:It has nothing to do with the checklist and you should know it (public tell meaning zilch going forward and all that). It's about the level of your aggression.
NAI. I can be agressive as any alignment. My level of aggression usually has more to do with how pissed off I am in RL than my alignment.

Sabrar wrote:Vote: Mark_Cangila

Let's start with a lurker.
Interesting. At the time you voted, how was Mark’s content more deserving of a lurker vote than wam?

plytho wrote: Not going to vote mark just yet.
If you do, are you going to give an actual reason, because you haven't said much about Mark other than he followed my NL vote, and then you moved on to what you didn't like about wam. Or is it for lurking?

freezeblade wrote:Yeah, as said above, NL is no good, just because there is an even number of players doesn't mean it's suddenly the best option.

vote: Mark_Cangila

Because a lurker lynch is better than NL.
So...your reason for voting for Mark is because he's lurking? I can understand moody’s vote for Mark, but FoS on all of you that are voting for Mark with the justification that it is a lurker lynch. If you are voting for a lurker, why not freezeblade, somitomi, or wam?

@freezeblade
Spoiler:
freezeblade wrote:From East Oakland (the sketchy zone) to Berkeley Hills (Much nicer). So I'm super stoked, moving into a complex with family, what used to be the old commune, now split into apartments, should be a fun adventure, as I'm essentially taking up the role of "Uncle next door" to a 3 year old and a 4 year old.
Sounds awesome! Have a great weekend setting up your new place!

somitomi wrote:I should remember to clearly label my jokes as such...
I’m missing what the joke was. . .

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:59 am UTC

bessie wrote:At the time you voted, how was Mark’s content more deserving of a lurker vote than wam?
It wasn't. But I read wam correctly in the last two games and the little voices in my head tell me he's not scum here.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby bessie » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:47 am UTC

Well if no one else wants to play, I guess it’s all up to me.

Woof

bessie – She’s usually townie on D1, and often lands in this spot by default, but I feel she has put forth the most effort of anyone in this game, and is doing the most to generate content and find scum.

Sabrar – I’m suspicious of his easy and continuing town read of me me me, even more suspicious of his town read of wam, and I find his lack of content disturbing. The only reason he’s so high on my list is that everyone else is scummier.

moody7277 – Lackluster content, but remarkably better than all but two other players in this game. You know something’s wrong when moody is one of the towniest players on D1. Everyone lower on this list than moody should be ashamed of themselves.

BoomFrog – I usually feel BoomFrog is purposely scummy, but not enough to be lynchable. I will never have a reliable read of him on D1. For this reason I have placed him as my neutral line.

somitomi – Finally made a second post, which still did nothing to drive the game forward. What’s suspicious is that he knows that he’s lurking, even points out his own lack of content, but still doesn’t seem concerned enough about it to like, make a reads list or anything like that. The only reason he’s not lower is that at least he made an ordered list. Oh, and that there are so many others that are scummier.

plytho - I'm really disappointed in plytho this game. I had him scheduled for my D1 tunnel and I feel he is purposely not cooperating with me on this. He started off with some helpfully scummy active lurking by using his first two posts to discuss a setup he hadn’t yet read and by asking questions he didn’t even think through just to get some words on the page. But this game thus far has been a lurker’s dream, and his content is actually reasonable in comparison to everyone else’s. Hopefully tomorrow he will do something blatantly scummy and give me some material with which to work.

Mark_Cangila – Has been trying to develop a hard to read, natural, everything-is-NAI meta, and keeps reminding us of it. Mark, you’re not a newbie, in fact you’re doing well as of late, and it’s time for you to evolve as a player. If we can’t tell your town game from your scum game you might end up getting policy lynched in future games, unless you start contributing more content.

freezeblade – His meta is that he hates D1. In the past I’ve accused him of using this well-known predisposition as an excuse for scummy lurking on D1. He is also known for being very against No Lynch on D1, and I’ve used this too in the past, as I did in this game, to bait him for content. Hmm, he was town in the linked example, and was lynched on D1, but that game was different because he did provide more content toward the end of day, something he didn’t do in this one.

wam – wam is lurking hard even for wam at his scummiest. And when he does post he’s active lurking. All he’s discussed is how he’s not sure about the setup and he’s not sure about NL. Oh and he threw some shade at freezeblade for doing exactly what freezeblade does every game where someone brings up NL. There is absolutely no reason for Sabrar to find anything about wam townie.

Grrr

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:09 am UTC

bessie wrote:There is absolutely no reason for Sabrar to find anything about wam townie.
I agree. There was nothing townie about him in Texas either but I had a hunch. I know you don't like my meta-reads but you just have to learn to live with them. :wink:

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby plytho » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:41 pm UTC

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote: Not going to vote mark just yet.
If you do, are you going to give an actual reason, because you haven't said much about Mark other than he followed my NL vote, and then you moved on to what you didn't like about wam. Or is it for lurking?

It's not for lurking. It's for his anti-town vote.

@mark: what do you like about wam's reasoning for NL and where do you disagree with Sabrar and others who pointed out why NL is a bad idea?

Bessie, I thought you voted NL to taunt Freezeblade, but the fact that you're still voting means you actually prefer no lynch. Please explain why. (after Mark if possible)
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby wam » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:42 pm UTC

I disagree with Bessie I think freeze jumping in there is scummy so their my 1st lynch choice.

RL rant

Why can no one drive in snow!
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby plytho » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:17 pm UTC

wam wrote:I disagree with Bessie I think freeze jumping in there is scummy so their my 1st lynch choice.

So why aren't you voting?
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby wam » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:54 pm UTC

vote freeze

As I was hesitant as stated earlier but then remembered how close to deadline we are
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:01 pm UTC

Votals (target = 4):
  • Mark_Cangila <--(3)
    • Sabrar
    • Moody7277
    • Freezeblade
  • No-Lynch <--(2)
    • Bessie
    • Mark_Cangila
  • Freezeblade <--(1)
    • Wam

    About 9 hours to go.

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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby plytho » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:23 pm UTC

I'll be asleep at deadline and I'm at a party with a dying phone. Still support the mark lynch.
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby somitomi » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:50 pm UTC

As usual I struggled a bit with my reads, but here goes.
TOWN
bessie: appears to be normal bessie turned up to eleven, she's noticeably more aggressive than usual. I'm not sure what to make of that, but she has the most solid content in the game so far.
plytho: started out with a little fluff, but his later posts are much better. I like his clearly stated intention regarding his (yet unplaced) vote although the value of it hinges on actually following up.
sabrar: he's been driving the game as usual and I haven't noted anything objectionable. I don't see his townread on wam, but it's usual for him to make calls like that.
mark: spent nearly half of his posts disputing the accusations of lurking, and the rest of his content is a bit active lurky.
moody: half his posts are setup speculation and the rest is about NL. He didn't give any reason for voting Mark over bessie albeit his reason seems to be Mark's no lynch vote.
Spoiler:
That reminds me
moody7277 wrote:We all know how I feel about D1 NL, you've lampshaded it in a previous game (would have to search for exactly which), so I think at this point it'd be redundant.

I didn't know your opinion on NL, and no signal should never be used as a signal anyway.

freezeblade: Didn't say much about other players beyond a FoS on wam, I woudl've liked a town-scum list from him. Plus I don't like his vote on Mark, picking the one available wagon for a reason that could apply to just about half of us feels fishy to me.
wam: the strongest point against him is defending an idea and saying it was a test at the same time. There's also a bit too much fluff and I especially don't like voting one person and saying zilch about anyone else.
SCUM
Vote: wam

Right, what else...
Mark_Cangila wrote:I don't see any reason for Moody to mention it, and on the low chance he successfully convinces people, he is better off. I think he could successfully do it too. It doesn't make him not an indie.

Maybe not, but I don't think there's a reasonable chance noone will think (or mention) there might be an indie. That's not something you could do with skill so I don't see any reason for indie!moody to pretend he hasn't thought of indies. Therefore I think that setup spec makes indie!moody just a little less likely.
wam wrote:I disagree with Bessie I think freeze jumping in there is scummy so their my 1st lynch choice.

What do you think of... well anyone else?
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somitomi
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Re: The Mafia with the Golden Gun (D1)

Postby somitomi » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:07 pm UTC

EBWOP:
I'll be up for another hour or so.
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