Unlikely Superheroes (Day 5)

For your simulated organized crime needs.

Moderators: jestingrabbit, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby bessie » Fri May 24, 2019 3:13 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
bessie wrote:I’m so annoyed at being so wrong about the setup. Or maybe I’m just annoyed because BoomFrog isn’t dying of love for me me me.
Some of us aren't surprised in the slightest... :roll:
I shall console myself that I got this correct when others doubted me:
bessie wrote:What are you not understanding? I don’t think there’s an actual cult. I think wam may just be an ordinary roleblocker that leaves evidence that he has visited someone (by labeling them as Church of Moo). Many have theorized about weak powers, or negative aspects. I think this is just a clever variation of Loud.


somitomi wrote:Did anyone say "told you so" yet? :P
Oh wait, Jimbob did, never mind.
Why somitomi, I didn’t realize you had such strong doubts about my setup spec. I know you were suspicious of my confidence in my better than average track record, but I wasn’t aware that you had decided on a two scum team setup. Perhaps it was because of your comment here?
somitomi wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
somitomi wrote:I'm struggling with the fact that SuicideJunkie is also quite suspicious to me and I'm not sure I can reconcile the two.
Why can't you reconcile it in a potential multiball setup?

Well yes, but it's not surely multiball and I can get hung up on apparent inconsistencies within my reads.

So somitomi, a couple questions:
1. What exactly do you think the problem with my setup spec presented in this post (bessie’s detailed setup spec, not the backup guess), that made you sure it wasn’t the actual setup, sure enough to join in jimbob’s gloat?
2. When did you switch to thinking that the setup was likely multiball? There is no indication in the thread as to when you may have made this decision.

No one else answer.


Sabrar wrote:I think bessie's attention to detail is townie.
I think it’s NAI.

SuicideJunkie wrote:1) In the case of a tied vote, I get lynched. (Yep, Bessie. It could even be FIVE less votes required to lynch me early on, not just one or two, although admittedly town would try to avoid NLish things)
Please clarify. Is it a tied vote between you and someone else, or between any two players? I can see you having a weak concern over the second option, but you should be familiar enough with this forum to know that a tie is almost never going to happen. If it is the first option, town!you should have been totally unconcerned because you would still need to tie with someone scummy, which meant that you were being scummy yourself.

And why are you so concerned about living anyway? If you are town, it is not your job to survive to endgame. It is your job to catch scum in whatever way you can, and saving yourself by trying to look townie isn’t one of them. Did I already reference SDK in Meta Mafia? See this post.

SuicideJunkie wrote: 3) My true actions are stealthed, so you'll only ever see me with dead people or idle, never doing innocent things.
Even if I give town!you #2 as your real disadvantage (which probably isn’t going to happen), #3 is so anti-town, I just can’t see it being given to a townie. I know, doesn't mean it can't happen. So let’s say you are telling the truth and were dealt a rather weak power and three very strong disadvantages. Why resign yourself so early on D1 to an unjust and certain easy demise? So what, town!you dies before D2, why let it ruin what could have been a spectacular D1?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:For example, if we were to lynch town!SuicideJunkie we'd finally know what his role is and confirm his No Result. That could make bessie look bad, for example, because it might mean she's a rolestopper and is lying about getting a result on dimochka etc.
Go ahead, make me look bad. I am totally completely unworried about it.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: The above suggested bessie-rolestopper (in contrast to a reflexive rolestopper) would fit that (cue bessie being unsurprised I bring this up), but I'm sure there are others.
I was totally about to go on about a bessie-BoomFrog rolestopping vengeful sibling scum pair but I read ahead and saw this.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: What is your guess about BoomFrog's buddy's power?
I’m thinking about it. Agree with you that YinYang is a consideration.

Because at least half this group is probably going to disappear over the weekend, I will claim that I targeted moody, and that my action would have no effect on wam’s action.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 24, 2019 5:14 am UTC

I have no ability that would mess with others' abilities.

@wam: do you receive any feedback? Would you know who was inducted to your church? Can you block the same person multiple times? From the flavor I figured that once they are a part of the church you can no longer target them, but that would require you to know if the ability succeeded and was not redirected.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 24, 2019 7:23 am UTC

Scenario 1: dimochka is lying about redirecting wam (or whatever he claims). Only reason to do so is to protect SuicideJunkie, so 6-3-2 (not likely) or 5-2-2-2 (really? not seeing this one either).
Scenario 2: wam is lying about targeting SuicideJunkie in the first place, dimochka has a redirection that depends on original target (e.g. player-list order) that maps SJ to moody. wam might have ended up targeting himself if no-one else claims Moo. Again this feels unlikely, wam's play is consistent. Moot if dimochka's redirect doesn't work that way.
Scenario 3: scum!moody might be lying about being Moo (only if wam receives no feedback). This is possible, in that case moody would likely be Vicarin's buddy seeing that we had a death tonight. Moot if moody's N2 action is verifiable.
Scenario 4: town!jimbob or town!somitomi messed with someone, in that case please claim something to clear this up. Moot if they don't.
Scenario 5: scum messed with someone (most likely scum!rb has priority over town!rb and they didn't want wam to block the kill)

On another topic: This is how you balance a role with drawbacks (look at Madge's C huck N orris pm). Giving out a weak ability (seeing as SJ has to find an investigative role first AND he doesn't even know who was targeted) and introducing 3 disadvantages where two of those could directly lead us to mislynch him is bad design. I think this is SJ overselling his role.

pre-post: good thing I previewed, didn't know about the C huck N orris filter.

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri May 24, 2019 7:45 am UTC

I was not the cause of any of the weirdness that happened last night either. Let me get this straight with regards to claims and other info about last night:
1) SuicideJunkie claims to not be Moo. Freezeblade's target visited SJ.
2) wam blocked SJ.
3) freezeblade was killed by somebody, and BoomFrog's buddy/buddies probably had a kill.
4) dimochka says that wam actually targeted moody.
5) moody is not Moo.
6) bessie targeted moody and it would have had no effect on wam.
7) Sabrar and I have no useful information in this area.

Somitomi, I believe you are the only one yet to comment on this.

Assuming everybody is being truthful, the only way this could all make sense is if a third-party used a redirect, roleblock etc to mess with one more of the above results. I'd like wam's input on the question he was going to ask the mod re. target knowing whether they were recruited or not.

Sabrar wrote:Right, I missed that. So we have no way to verify him. The only thing anyone can corroborate is dimochka not being an investigative role and someone visiting SJ (who was potentially investigated by freezeblade).
Why would freezeblade not check SuicideJunkie though?
Maybe freezeblade targeted SJ to get a cop result, but got a tracking result because SJ targeted somebody. SJ then would have gotten a tracking result on himself, which should have said (if SJ is telling the truth) that freezeblade's target targeted freezeblade, even with SuicideJunkie's supposed downsides. So maybe freezeblade's target was messed with or maybe SJ is lying and tried to make up a consistent result and got it wrong.

Barring other useful information, I'm willing to go with lynch SuicideJunkie as the plan. His Day 2 content at least is so weird and his claim seems too much as noted earlier.

Ninja'ed by Sabrar. I think I broadly agree with those scenarios, although thinking about it, I would say that his second and third downsides could be viewed as one big downside (he gets seen at the scene of the crime and only there).
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 24, 2019 8:58 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Maybe freezeblade targeted SJ to get a cop result, but got a tracking result because SJ targeted somebody. SJ then would have gotten a tracking result on himself, which should have said (if SJ is telling the truth) that freezeblade's target targeted freezeblade, even with SuicideJunkie's supposed downsides.
But that doesn't check out.
SuicideJunkie wrote:All I know is that whomever Freeze was investigating, that person was visiting me.

Suppose freezeblade checks SJ, SJ targets freezeblade, SJ is somehow telling the truth, nobody messes with either of them. freezeblade gets killed, so SJ appears to be targeting him (as it happened). Therefore freezeblade receives the result 'Your target visited freezeblade'. And that's what SJ should have gotten in that case but he claimed otherwise.

So if freezeblade was checking SJ then in the case where SJ is town there must have been another instance of someone messing with the results. That's the second one after the opposing claims from wam/dimochka/moody.

If freezeblade was checking someone else then in order for SJ to be telling the truth (without anyone messing with the results) that player must have targeted SJ with an action. The only player claiming to have done so is wam, however he was most likely redirected or blocked entirely. Scum might be lying about who they targeted but what ability would they have used on SJ? Can't be rb because SJ claimed a result, can't be standard Framer because Cop didn't work that way.

There are just too many holes here.

User avatar
wam
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:08 am UTC
Location: South England

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby wam » Fri May 24, 2019 9:44 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:I have no ability that would mess with others' abilities.

@wam: do you receive any feedback? Would you know who was inducted to your church? Can you block the same person multiple times? From the flavor I figured that once they are a part of the church you can no longer target them, but that would require you to know if the ability succeeded and was not redirected.


No feedback but I cant block the same person more than once
Come join us playing mafia signup here

User avatar
somitomi
Posts: 743
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:21 pm UTC
Location: can be found in Hungary
Contact:

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby somitomi » Fri May 24, 2019 9:55 am UTC

Wow, SuicideJunkie's claim is pushing credibility somewhat. Even if there's some super-amazing "solve game in a snap" power out there I don't see any reason to pile all the drawbacks on a single, moderately useful power. Putting 2) and 3) together is especially cruel since not only will you show up at crime scenes, you can't even hope to clear your name by being seen in two places at the same time. The other issue I have with this is that I think town should claim something like 2) right at the start of D1 the same way a miller does.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I guessed 1).
2) and 3) seem way over the top.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I don't want to comment on whether there are many results to be found at this point, but I think No Lynching could just deny us a free mislynch, depending on how everything works out, and don't think it's the best plan right now. The lynch is our only real weapon. We get information from it even if we mislynch. For example, if we were to lynch town!SuicideJunkie we'd finally know what his role is and confirm his No Result. That could make bessie look bad, for example, because it might mean she's a rolestopper and is lying about getting a result on dimochka etc. Either that or we lynch town!dimochka and find out more about who he might have targeted/confirm that SuicideJunkie didn't get No Result based on dimochka's ability.

I definitely agree with this.
moody7277 wrote:
dimochka wrote:And there goes my not claiming. Wam, you actually targeted moody. And if you are what you say you are, I'm guessing moody can corroborate this.

This does not clear SJ from anything else that was discussed, but I thought it important to clear up this confusion early on.


Well that's weird, because I'm not Moo. Uncertain if this says anything about dimochka or wam, or some dickery with results or targeting.

What the hell's going on here?
bessie wrote:Why somitomi, I didn’t realize you had such strong doubts about my setup spec. I know you were suspicious of my confidence in my better than average track record, but I wasn’t aware that you had decided on a two scum team setup. Perhaps it was because of your comment here?

It wasn't really about my personal feelings and it wasn't a particularly serious comment. It was mostly a remark on how you were the only one to consider one powerful mafia more likely than multiball.
1) It was too detailed for the amount of information we had at the time, that's all. I don't see much point in trying to guess everyone's role based on a single flip.
2) I thought multiball was more likely for most of D2, but I keep doubting myself. I doubt you haven't noticed that.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I was not the cause of any of the weirdness that happened last night either.

Me neither. I need to think more about how the claims so far fit together.
Ninja edit:
wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I have no ability that would mess with others' abilities.

@wam: do you receive any feedback? Would you know who was inducted to your church? Can you block the same person multiple times? From the flavor I figured that once they are a part of the church you can no longer target them, but that would require you to know if the ability succeeded and was not redirected.


No feedback but I cant block the same person more than once

Are you notified that your block was unsuccessful?
Image
—◯-◯ FG Discord

User avatar
somitomi
Posts: 743
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:21 pm UTC
Location: can be found in Hungary
Contact:

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby somitomi » Fri May 24, 2019 9:57 am UTC

EBWOP: Ugh, I swear the post editor has it in for me.

Wow, SuicideJunkie's claim is pushing credibility somewhat. Even if there's some super-amazing "solve game in a snap" power out there I don't see any reason to pile all the drawbacks on a single, moderately useful power. Putting 2) and 3) together is especially cruel since not only will you show up at crime scenes, you can't even hope to clear your name by being seen in two places at the same time. The other issue I have with this is that I think town should claim something like 2) right at the start of D1 the same way a miller does.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I don't want to comment on whether there are many results to be found at this point, but I think No Lynching could just deny us a free mislynch, depending on how everything works out, and don't think it's the best plan right now. The lynch is our only real weapon. We get information from it even if we mislynch. For example, if we were to lynch town!SuicideJunkie we'd finally know what his role is and confirm his No Result. That could make bessie look bad, for example, because it might mean she's a rolestopper and is lying about getting a result on dimochka etc. Either that or we lynch town!dimochka and find out more about who he might have targeted/confirm that SuicideJunkie didn't get No Result based on dimochka's ability.

I definitely agree with this.
moody7277 wrote:
dimochka wrote:And there goes my not claiming. Wam, you actually targeted moody. And if you are what you say you are, I'm guessing moody can corroborate this.

This does not clear SJ from anything else that was discussed, but I thought it important to clear up this confusion early on.


Well that's weird, because I'm not Moo. Uncertain if this says anything about dimochka or wam, or some dickery with results or targeting.

What the hell's going on here?
bessie wrote:Why somitomi, I didn’t realize you had such strong doubts about my setup spec. I know you were suspicious of my confidence in my better than average track record, but I wasn’t aware that you had decided on a two scum team setup. Perhaps it was because of your comment here?

It wasn't really about my personal feelings and it wasn't a particularly serious comment. It was mostly a remark on how you were the only one to consider one powerful mafia more likely than multiball.
1) It was too detailed for the amount of information we had at the time, that's all. I don't see much point in trying to guess everyone's role based on a single flip.
2) I thought multiball was more likely for most of D2, but I keep doubting myself. I doubt you haven't noticed that.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I was not the cause of any of the weirdness that happened last night either.

Me neither. I need to think more about how the claims so far fit together.
Ninja edit:
wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I have no ability that would mess with others' abilities.

@wam: do you receive any feedback? Would you know who was inducted to your church? Can you block the same person multiple times? From the flavor I figured that once they are a part of the church you can no longer target them, but that would require you to know if the ability succeeded and was not redirected.


No feedback but I cant block the same person more than once

Are you notified that your block was unsuccessful?
Image
—◯-◯ FG Discord

User avatar
wam
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:08 am UTC
Location: South England

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby wam » Fri May 24, 2019 10:30 am UTC

@somi no feedback at all.
Come join us playing mafia signup here

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri May 24, 2019 12:08 pm UTC

@somitomi - use the preview button to check your quoting!
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 24, 2019 1:17 pm UTC

@dimochka: why do you suspect wam to be non-town?

User avatar
SuicideJunkie
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:40 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Fri May 24, 2019 3:48 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Suppose freezeblade checks SJ, SJ targets freezeblade, SJ is somehow telling the truth, nobody messes with either of them. freezeblade gets killed, so SJ appears to be targeting him (as it happened). Therefore freezeblade receives the result 'Your target visited freezeblade'. And that's what SJ should have gotten in that case but he claimed otherwise.

So if freezeblade was checking SJ then in the case where SJ is town there must have been another instance of someone messing with the results. That's the second one after the opposing claims from wam/dimochka/moody.

If freezeblade was checking someone else then in order for SJ to be telling the truth (without anyone messing with the results) that player must have targeted SJ with an action. The only player claiming to have done so is wam, however he was most likely redirected or blocked entirely. Scum might be lying about who they targeted but what ability would they have used on SJ? Can't be rb because SJ claimed a result, can't be standard Framer because Cop didn't work that way.

There are just too many holes here.

That logic checks out according to my understanding.

I could perhaps have been redirected to a different tracker. Unlikely but possibly a limited-use multi-redirect could have shuffled everything. (Randy Ohm?)
The thing that's sure from my side is that somebody visited me, and somebody tracked my visitor. I probably visited the tracker in turn, since I don't think powered result-hijinks would result in something that looks so plausible as a result for me.

bessie wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote:1) In the case of a tied vote, I get lynched. (Yep, Bessie. It could even be FIVE less votes required to lynch me early on, not just one or two, although admittedly town would try to avoid NLish things)
Please clarify. Is it a tied vote between you and someone else, or between any two players? I can see you having a weak concern over the second option, but you should be familiar enough with this forum to know that a tie is almost never going to happen. If it is the first option, town!you should have been totally unconcerned because you would still need to tie with someone scummy, which meant that you were being scummy yourself.
I get lynched if votals are tied. I don't need any votes on me for that to happen.
Vote modifying powers are what would trigger it most likely.

bessie wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote: 3) My true actions are stealthed, so you'll only ever see me with dead people or idle, never doing innocent things.
Even if I give town!you #2 as your real disadvantage (which probably isn’t going to happen), #3 is so anti-town, I just can’t see it being given to a townie. I know, doesn't mean it can't happen. So let’s say you are telling the truth and were dealt a rather weak power and three very strong disadvantages. Why resign yourself so early on D1 to an unjust and certain easy demise? So what, town!you dies before D2, why let it ruin what could have been a spectacular D1?
#3 is a clarification on #2; if nobody dies, I'm seen as not visiting anyone. Thus, stealth.

Do you think if I hadn't said anything... D1 was going to be MORE of a spectacle than it turned out to be? Or did you just want to be center stage with Boomfrog for the spectacle?
Nobody else even came up with an origin story :(

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby LaserGuy » Fri May 24, 2019 4:58 pm UTC

Very sorry all. I have been super busy this week and just realized that one player had not received part of their night result. All night interactions were processed properly, I just didn't send the relevant PM. This has been fixed.

Again, very sorry about this. I can extend the day phase an extra day or two if you would like.

User avatar
moody7277
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:06 pm UTC
Location: Extreme south Texas

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby moody7277 » Fri May 24, 2019 5:38 pm UTC

Explicitly what that means is that I have indeed joined the Church of Moo. Weirdness averted, wan is still town as far as I can tell.
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 24, 2019 6:21 pm UTC

Ok, that's good to hear.

User avatar
wam
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:08 am UTC
Location: South England

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby wam » Fri May 24, 2019 6:32 pm UTC

One thing I dont understand is why town dimochka would redirect me. Care to explain?
Come join us playing mafia signup here

User avatar
SuicideJunkie
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:40 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sat May 25, 2019 12:22 am UTC

I think I believe in Bessie having achieved her wish to be Mafia this game.
Pondering is still to be done on what the night results and claims mean, but for now...

Vote Bessie

PS:
I'll be mostly out of wifi range this weekend until Sunday night, and will catch up then.

User avatar
dimochka
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:25 pm UTC
Location: A few different places->NYC->LA->NYC. He/Him/His please.

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby dimochka » Sat May 25, 2019 3:10 am UTC

Wam - my role is not what you think. Can be more explicit if ya'll feel it's helpful.

I'm mostly away this weekend due to memorial day. I would be very supportive of an extension due to that.
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby Sabrar » Sat May 25, 2019 3:51 am UTC

Whatever your exact role is you used it in a non-town fashion, preventing wam from blocking SuicideJunkie. This was only reasonable if you think wam is non-town.

User avatar
moody7277
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:06 pm UTC
Location: Extreme south Texas

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby moody7277 » Sat May 25, 2019 3:57 am UTC

jimbob on Vicarin

Spoiler:
questions him about poking Bf re gambiting and his vote, wants him to expand his setup spec
questions his reads on dimochka and fb
reads him as slightly suspicious due to the gambit squelching issue and his read on SJ, wants him to expand his read on SJ
has him most scummy of the partial list of reads
votes for him (3rd vote broke a 2-2 tie with SJ)


Doesn't pay any more or less attention to him than anyone else. Broke a tie in favor of lynching him. Not Vicarin's teammate

jimbob on BF

Spoiler:
D1
curious about post wording and his waiting to give setup spec
satisfied with BF's explanation about "second most interesting thing"

D2
deeply concerned with read of him, would already be looking townie if he were, late vote also suspicious, conludes he's scum
decides busy!BF would look similar to scum!BF
analysis about BF after the Church of Moo revelation, most likely explanation is scum!BF with some other 3rd party possibilities, votes BF
asks BF why he didn't admit to Church of Moo
unvotes BF to consider wam's side of it
"slightly concerned that we are all focusing on BoomFrog so much", asks BF about his spec about mafia teams vis-a-vis Vicarin's flip
reread of BF leads to him being indie almost as likely as scum, BF lynch informative
would be voting BF but for L-2

At risk of contradicting my statement above, he actually seems to have less interaction with BF than average. his read post of BF was his first post of D2, could easily have already been composed before start of day, before the Church of Moo issue caused BF to be a dead man walking. vote-unvote early in the day plus the intent to vote looks proper, but I said in an earlier post that the way D2 went down, bussing could have started really early. Conclusion: maybe 15-20% chance of him being BF's partner
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

User avatar
somitomi
Posts: 743
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:21 pm UTC
Location: can be found in Hungary
Contact:

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby somitomi » Sat May 25, 2019 1:05 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@somitomi - use the preview button to check your quoting!

I know, I just keep forgetting to check (see also all my FaiD posts)
moody7277 wrote:Explicitly what that means is that I have indeed joined the Church of Moo. Weirdness averted, wan is still town as far as I can tell.

Well, some weirdness averted, my graph is still full of question marks, most important of which is "Who actually targeted SJ?" Trackers see who you actually visited, not who you intended to target, right? It's a shame Freezeblade never posted that T-S list, it's hard to guess at his target this way and nobody's owned up to targeting SJ.
SuicideJunkie wrote:I think I believe in Bessie having achieved her wish to be Mafia this game.
Pondering is still to be done on what the night results and claims mean, but for now...

What led you to that conclusion?
Image
—◯-◯ FG Discord

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby Sabrar » Sat May 25, 2019 2:40 pm UTC

Why do you assume that SJ's claim/result is genuine?

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby bessie » Sat May 25, 2019 4:26 pm UTC

somitomi, re my question #1 and your response below:
bessie wrote:1. What exactly do you think the problem with my setup spec presented in this post (bessie’s detailed setup spec, not the backup guess), that made you sure it wasn’t the actual setup, sure enough to join in jimbob’s gloat?

somitomi wrote:It wasn't really about my personal feelings and it wasn't a particularly serious comment. It was mostly a remark on how you were the only one to consider one powerful mafia more likely than multiball.
1) It was too detailed for the amount of information we had at the time, that's all. I don't see much point in trying to guess everyone's role based on a single flip.
You didn’t answer the question. What element(s) was so ridiculous in my setup spec that made you certain I was incorrect? What, in your opinion, made my setup spec invalid?

SuicideJunkie wrote:I get lynched if votals are tied. I don't need any votes on me for that to happen.
Vote modifying powers are what would trigger it most likely.
I’m having difficulty believing you because of game specific rule #14, even considering rule #16 and that this is a moderate bastard game. But if anyone out there is seriously considering No Lynch, we should do this instead. SuicideJunkie and I vote for each other, and we see who is standing at end of day.


Out of time, back in a few hours.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby Sabrar » Sat May 25, 2019 7:39 pm UTC

@wam: can you ask the mod if moody would be a valid target for you N3? I'm curious.

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby bessie » Sat May 25, 2019 8:06 pm UTC

somitomi, are you going to reply to this post?

somitomi, in regards to this post I made on D1, which is it, BoomFrog or Vicarin?
bessie wrote:http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4452801#p4452801
Peaceful Whale wrote:@Sabrar @Vic,
how do you feel about boom frog having you two as most scummy?

@Boomfroggy, I'd say its a little to early to be making full scum lists. So I assume your's isn't. I am guessing its manly a "gut feeling" deal. But can you answer why you've chosen those three as most scummy? Dimochka hasn't said much. What has she said that pings you as scummy.
Gut feeling, if Peaceful Whale is scum, he is addressing at least one of his partners in this post.

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby bessie » Sat May 25, 2019 10:14 pm UTC

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4455187#p4455187
wam wrote:The Miller comment was because I come up church of moo only to all investigations. At least that's how I read my role PM.


http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4456061#p4456061
wam wrote:Yes role PM states I come up at church of moo. People I convert come up as alignment and church of moo.

Realised I havent stated this but reading between the lines that may also apply to watchers/trackers.

wam, can you explain what you meant by these comments? For example, if someone watches you, will they get a watcher result, and also be informed that you are a member of the church of moo, or do they just get Moo? Do all members of your church also get moo attached to the results of all investigations?


LaserGuy, any chance of getting the Night Action Resolution order?

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat May 25, 2019 10:54 pm UTC

As expected, I didn't get any time to do more than skim today's posts, and the way things are looking, I don't think anything will change for most of this week. I might have a decent amount of time on Thursday, but that'll be it for this week. If people have specific things they'd like my thoughts on, plus highlight them in some way. An extension won't really help me, but I'm not opposed to one of others want it.

I don't think much has changed in my overall thinking. I'm joining the group (possibly of size one) who wants to know why SuicideJunkie voted bessie. I know my own thoughts on bessie, but SuicideJunkie needs to post his own.

@SuicideJunkie, why did you keep giving only marginally useful info, at best? Why did you wait until D3 to explain the negative aspects of their role?

I could see the negative points 2 and 3 existing for SuicideJunkie's role in general terms, but I see no point in the tie breaker ability, given how games on here work. I also don't think 2 and 3 will exist in a game with a miller-like player too, so I'm coming to the conclusion that SJ is making up his role. His lynch would also allow us to focus on other players, even if he's town, and a scum flip would be very informative too, for buddy analysis etc.

FWIW, I currently am leaning to the setup being 7-2-2 with the Apps having the stronger abilities to counterbalance their night kill limitation, but 6-2-2-1 is an alternative outside stretch guess, with a townish indie. If the latter, I guess that wam is that indie.

I've spent far too long on this, and should go to bed.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby bessie » Sat May 25, 2019 11:17 pm UTC

I’ve been pondering SuicideJunkie’s claim all day, and I’m just not believing it. We now have three flips (and I have my own role pm) to compare to his claim, and his power doesn’t seem like a reasonable fit with the other flips, and no one else has had a separate disadvantage revealed (meaning that from what we have seen, any disadvantages are limitations of the power itself).

More thoughts on the low utility/high liability of SuicideJunkie’s claimed role. I’ve been considering that not all roles must be created equal. For most games, there is a balance of powers between players. Most townies tend to have equalish power level roles, or simple powers and some vanillas, rarely is there one or two overpowered or overly disadvantaged townies (at least that is the intent of the mod). Same for mafia teams. But this is convention, not a rule. And I have argued about this in previous games.

I’m also considering that flips may not be complete. See here.
LaserMod wrote:Flips will always reveal true information, but it is possible that powers could limit what information is revealed.


Thoughts about the claim itself. As already noted, the disadvantages don’t relate to the power. Again, not a rule, but is it sloppy design? I can see #2, if it was the result of SuicideJunkie's power. See Lawrencelot’s role in Misnomer’s Smalltown PYP. #3 just makes no sense to me. Ninja is a scum power, not a town power. Town doesn’t need it, because town doesn’t need to prove they’re town by being seen places where there is no night kill. They don’t need to prove they’re town at all. SuicideJunkie's mindset with regards to this is non-town (see also somitomi here). Townies can be cleared by investigators, but they shouldn’t be actively trying to be cleared, and investigators shouldn’t be actively trying to clear town. Townies should be focusing on finding scum, with clearing town sort of a consolation prize for a wrong guess.

I think there must be some elements of truth in SuicideJunkie’s claims, if for no other reason than it’s easier to keep up the lie if there’s some truth in it. Vicarin’s power and win condition were related to votes and voting. SuicideJunkie has claimed a vote-related disadvantage, and has been focused on votes the entire game, I think he’s probably Vicarin’s partner, and has some vote related power.

SuicideJunkie wrote: Do you think if I hadn't said anything... D1 was going to be MORE of a spectacle than it turned out to be? Or did you just want to be center stage with Boomfrog for the spectacle?
Being center stage with BoomFrog is one of my goals in life <3. If only both BoomFrog and I had more time, one of us could have done a gambit, the other would have played it up, the whole thing would have snowballed into the most spectacular of all spectacles. Yes, that would have been the most ideal and awesome D1. And as a bonus Vicarin would have been super frustrated and annoyed. 8-) And it would have been NAI for all three of us. Sabrar’s level of participation may have been AI. :P

SuicideJunkie wrote:Nobody else even came up with an origin story :(
I wish I had the time, creativity, and that I had thought of it, but I didn’t this game. I really do appreciate you and others that have time to roleplay for what they add to the game experience, and I fully support all your efforts. It makes the game more enjoyable, at least for me.

SuicideJunkie, awwww, at least build a case on me!

jimbobmacdoodle, you were very insistent that SuicideJunkie claim on D2, and in your first post on D3. Now he has, and you haven’t had much to say about it. [pre-post edit, ninja’d by jimbob]

An extension won’t change my level of involvement. It is a holiday weekend in the US, so I have Monday off work and will be able to post more than usual. Deadline on Tuesday or Wednesday morning makes no difference for me, I will 100% for certain not be available after 6:00am PDT. I am not opposed to an extension if others want one.

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby LaserGuy » Sun May 26, 2019 1:23 am UTC

bessie wrote:LaserGuy, any chance of getting the Night Action Resolution order?


Very roughly, the order is reflexive, disruptive, protective, killing/recruiting, investigative. Can't comment further, but there should not be any surprises in terms of how things are processed.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby Sabrar » Sun May 26, 2019 6:43 am UTC

I basically stopped believing SuicideJunkie's claim when he said he wouldn't need any votes on him to be lynched in case of a tie. That is not moderate bastardry in my book.
I agree with bessie's points, also SJ not claiming anything here right after we clarified for PW that Millers should claim D1 right away is evidence imo that he didn't have his false-claim ready.
Finally a meta-point (with no disrespect intended either way). If I'm a mod and for some reason decide to introduce such a low utility and anti-town role in the game then I will definitely and deliberately assign it to an experienced player who can handle it and screw the random distribution.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:but 6-2-2-1 is an alternative outside stretch guess, with a townish indie. If the latter, I guess that wam is that indie.
What do you think wam's win-con is in that case?

@dimochka: why not answer my question?

Extension would be appreciated.

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun May 26, 2019 7:45 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:What do you think wam's win-con is in that case?
I'm assuming it would be either like someone suggested about trying to get recruits lynched, or to try to have all living players members of the Church. Almost certainly it would be something to do with the recruitment.

Bessie, I have said a few things, but I've had other things to look at too. I was insistent because I was concerned that when scum!SJ did come around to full claiming that he would cherry pick the things he'd breadcrumbed according to the game state.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
moody7277
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:06 pm UTC
Location: Extreme south Texas

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby moody7277 » Sun May 26, 2019 12:40 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Bessie, I have said a few things, but I've had other things to look at too. I was insistent because I was concerned that when scum!SJ did come around to full claiming that he would cherry pick the things he'd breadcrumbed according to the game state.


You mean like how he summarized the claim with that cockamamie "Town Godfather" term?
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

User avatar
moody7277
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:06 pm UTC
Location: Extreme south Texas

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby moody7277 » Sun May 26, 2019 1:41 pm UTC

Have to do this piecewise due to subbing, but the way the lynches broke down, it makes it a little easier

PW on Vicarin
nothing whatsoever

PW on BoomFrog
copypasted BF's T->S list
scum read of BoomFrog, votes BF
unvotes close to day end

somi on BoomFrog

skeptical of two negative comments on BF
pinged by the read of the BF/Church issue, possible scum
T->S list has BF at bottom
registers intent to vote BF, not due to closeness to hammer

Conclusions: considering how weird PW was acting and the complete lack of interaction, it is entirely possible that PW/somi is Vic's partner. Almost certainly not BF's partner.
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby LaserGuy » Sun May 26, 2019 3:31 pm UTC

Votals

SuicideJunkie (2): jimbobmacdoodle, wam
bessie (1): SuicideJunkie

Not voting: Everyone else

I will extend deadline until Wednesday

[edit]Fixed votals
Last edited by LaserGuy on Sun May 26, 2019 8:02 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby Sabrar » Sun May 26, 2019 4:37 pm UTC

I appreciate moody's buddy-analysis and I hope he continues with it.

I've looked at Vicarin's content to have a perspective from the other side as well. Unfortunately he spent way too much time arguing with BoomFrog and me while also pushing SuicideJunkie to have extensive interactions with any other player. I'm quite certain (not 1000%) that wam simply can't be his buddy. bessie looks unlikely as well, though that part is easier to fake. Anyone else is fair game (from this pov).

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby bessie » Sun May 26, 2019 4:53 pm UTC

somitomi still hasn’t replied to my questions in this post. I’m not going to forget, and I’m not going to stop asking until I have an answer.

I’m also waiting for wam to reply to this post but he said he would have no internet access over the weekend.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'm assuming it would be either like someone suggested about trying to get recruits lynched, or to try to have all living players members of the Church.
The second is probably ruled out by his choice of targets.

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby bessie » Sun May 26, 2019 7:08 pm UTC

LaserGuy, are the votals correct?

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby LaserGuy » Sun May 26, 2019 8:00 pm UTC

bessie wrote:LaserGuy, are the votals correct?


Probably not. Let me check.
[edit]Fixed.

User avatar
somitomi
Posts: 743
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:21 pm UTC
Location: can be found in Hungary
Contact:

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby somitomi » Sun May 26, 2019 8:27 pm UTC

Sorry, I didn't have much time to read the thread since my last post. Oh, and I wouldn't mind an extension.

bessie wrote:somitomi still hasn’t replied to my questions in this post. I’m not going to forget, and I’m not going to stop asking until I have an answer.

Um, I would be okay with such a "reminder" if I had posted anything since you disapproved of my reply. But I didn't, I wasn't even away for that long, yet you have impatiently demanded an asnwer not once, but twice. What gives?
Sabrar wrote:Why do you assume that SJ's claim/result is genuine?

Because I'm dumb, apparently. Initially I tried to work things out with the assumption that all claims are true, but that's quite probably not the case and dismissing SJ's result resolves most of the questions.
bessie wrote:You didn’t answer the question. What element(s) was so ridiculous in my setup spec that made you certain I was incorrect? What, in your opinion, made my setup spec invalid?

Again, it wasn't the setup spec itself or any element of it (although that BoomFrog lover thing was a bit out there), but the amount of information it was based on. Yeah, semantically that might not be an answer to your question, but I think you're being unreasonable at this point.
bessie wrote:somitomi, in regards to this post I made on D1, which is it, BoomFrog or Vicarin?

Neither. Moody has done a nice job explaining why I'm not BoomFrog's buddy and I don't see any way to prove I'm not Vicarin's mate.
Image
—◯-◯ FG Discord

User avatar
somitomi
Posts: 743
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:21 pm UTC
Location: can be found in Hungary
Contact:

Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 3)

Postby somitomi » Sun May 26, 2019 8:28 pm UTC

EBWOP: ninja'd by LaserGuy
Image
—◯-◯ FG Discord


Return to “Mafia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests