The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:10 pm UTC

Meta Mafia 2:
Spoiler:
BF wrote:
fb wrote:If I'm not set to be replaced by EOD, and I'm leading in the votes as a result, I will happily full-claim to help out, as mentioned before, lynching me would be bad for town.


@jimbob: Look at this, he is not actually claiming PR. He's just claiming town. There is wiggle room here for him to say D3, I'm just VT trying to attract the NK. You can't assume he is town based on this.
This comment had me terrified until plytho checked, because I thought I'd "assumed" in thread that freezeblade was being truthful with his soft claim. Of course, I'm 99% certain he is (specifically the jailkeeper), but I can't reveal this - this is going to be an interesting little bit of cautious writing required.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Diemo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:41 am UTC

I'm looking for another replacement for MetaMafia if anyone hasn't read spoilers.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Liri » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:52 pm UTC

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Spoiler:
Poor SDK. :(
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:48 pm UTC

Meta Mafia 2
Spoiler:
LaserGuy wrote:BoomFrog: Neutral. Is BoomFrog.
This makes me so happy. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:11 pm UTC

Meta Mafia 2
Spoiler:
I started the anti-SDK push just so we'd have some counter wagons to analyze. I was very unsure about SDK and planned to likely change my vote back to him to make sure he got lynched in the end. However, I really am convinced now that wam is scum and SDK is town. If I am right about SDK then I claim redemption for losing to him in dark tower. If SDK is scum this time I will wallow in shame for eternity.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Liri » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:05 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
goddamn SDK is a good player
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby moody7277 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:42 pm UTC

Meta Mafia 2

Spoiler:
Saved by the bell. Of course, once SDK flips town start of D3, I'm done for. Going to give LaserGuy and jimbob the official go ahead in chat, and then try to have some fun. May see if the wind really is blowing that way first, but I'm pretty sure.

Once more I did something, have no idea what, that turned me from being slightly on the side of townie to vote-du-jour. Maybe it was a straw that broke the camel's back thing. Obviously if I knew for certain, I wouldn't do it and be a mafia playing god.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SDK » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:52 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
Suicide? Well, sure, I guess I was a bit suicidal at the end there.

Time to see how wrong I was!
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:18 pm UTC

Meta Mafia
Spoiler:
I predict:

95% SDK is town,
60% freezeblade is scum.
80% Wam is scum
70% moody is scum
50% mark is scum

70% I am NKed
60% wam or moody are lynched D3.
If freezeblade is modkilled I'd say 75% town wins the game. I think we are in a pretty good position unless LaserGuy, plytho or jimbob are scum.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Liri » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:26 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
BF wrote:I think we are in a pretty good position unless LaserGuy, plytho or jimbob are scum.

:lol:

Good luck guys!!!!!
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SDK » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:40 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
So we've got LaserGuy, moody and... jimbob!? Damnit, I knew I had something wrong. At least I was right about Mark and wam. With that team, it seems unlikely that town is going to pull this one off. At least moody should get lynched with the quick wagon at end of day being clearly town motivated.

And I was wrong about freezeblade, which is a shame. Thought I had him pegged. Good game played by scum so far, and a bad game for my reads in general. At least he's the jailkeeper, which is great news for any wagon that might get started on him (though he might just die tonight instead?).

moody7277 wrote:In other news, how the chirp did fb!Snark end up putting all three scum in Team Orange?

Haha, that's funny!

Madge wrote:Laserguy is, of course, showing what Madge could be if she was actually good at mafia :lol:

Both you and LaserGuy have been doing a spectacular job this game! I wish I could have role played more, but I'm just too set in my ways. Tried to throw in a few minor things here and there, though I'm not sure if anyone caught them. -- Oh, Bessie did! :D

threetwoone wrote:whoops, accidentally spoiled myself.
NOTE TO SELF: SPOILER TAGS SOMETHINES DON’T WORK WHEN READING POSTS BY A USER

That sucks. Good of you to tell the truth about it, anyway.

Madge wrote:And probably very obvious to SDK I received the fruit because that guy's clever

Seriously!? Some of you guys have WAY too high an opinion of me. :P

BoomFrog wrote:I started the anti-SDK push just so we'd have some counter wagons to analyze. I was very unsure about SDK and planned to likely change my vote back to him to make sure he got lynched in the end. However, I really am convinced now that wam is scum and SDK is town. If I am right about SDK then I claim redemption for losing to him in dark tower. If SDK is scum this time I will wallow in shame for eternity.

Ha! Nice! I read a fair bit into how your actions didn't really jive with the suspicion you harbored for me, and your eventual change of tone. I was trying to decide if scum!BoomFrog was inventing reads and leaving room to lynch me. I eventually decided you were doing exactly what you describe here, which contributed to my town read on you.

Here, have some redemption. It's a shame I had to die. We could have worked wonders together! :D

Liri wrote:goddamn SDK is a good player

But, but, but jimbob! Seriously!!
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Liri » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:05 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
SDK wrote:
Liri wrote:goddamn SDK is a good player

But, but, but jimbob! Seriously!!

I'm finding it hard to praise scum at the moment, but yeah, he is doing fantastically.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:59 am UTC

Meta mafia
Spoiler:
Even knowing that jimbob is scum, I'm still town reading him.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby wam » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:28 am UTC

Meta mafia

Spoiler:
really don't know which way SDK will.flip. I think it will give us a lot of information either way.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby plytho » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:01 am UTC

Meta mafia

Spoiler:
SDK wrote: I'm wondering if lynching me might just be the right play anyway. I'm not usually one to advocate an informational lynch, but even those reading me as town note that there's still a chance I'm scum. plytho is a decent player usually - allowing him to get his head outta his ass would be beneficial.
That was definitely a part of my reasoning. I wouldn't have been able to properly read the rest of the game with you in it.

Also, I really want to win this game. I haven't won a town game since my very first so I didn't want to take the risk of scum!you messing this up.
SDK wrote:Well that's good news. I'm pretty sure that would have only been the second time I've ever been lynched on this site (the first when I was copped mafia). Must be losing my touch. By which I mean, my mistakes this game show that I am losing my touch, or at least my memory!
This boast was another reason for me to hold my vote. You're saying you've never been caught as scum from your play, meaning you're extremely dangerous as scum so I need to hold on to any slip I see because you definitely won't slip twice. It also made me very eager to be part of the town that caught you without a cop.

Now, onto my decision: track freezeblade or someone else:

For my target selection I'm sort of working from a town!SDK perspective. Going all in on the scum!SDK scenario isn't necessary as I think we're ahead in that case and have a good chance of winning this game without my tracker result. If SDK is town we're in a tougher position and my tracker can help us out of there.

Not useful to track freezeblade if he's modkilled, nightkilled or town.
Moot if I'm nightkilled or jailed.
Useful if he's scum killer or rolecop.

If freezeblade survives N2 and isn't jailkeeper or fruit vendor he will be lynched. Tracking him and seeing nothing is not going to save him. The only added value of me tracking him is figuring out if he was the killer/rolecop, and since he knows he might be tracked odds are someone else will make the kill.

Hmm, there is some value in confirming jailkeeper!freezeblade's target in case he gets counterclaimed.

But I think I'm probably the quite likely to be jailed so I will be able to confirm I was jailed, but not who did it. So if freezeblade and someone else claim to have jailed me I'm no help.

So, value in:

-potentially gaining a little more info on scum!freezeblade.
-confirming jailkeeper!freezeblade's target
-Oh, and confirm no action if he claims an action, adding my townie weight to the other townie's counterclaim (or allowing that townie to stay quiet as the odds of me getting to use my tracker again aren't that great)

So I think freezeblade is a decent target for me.

I think I'm a rather likely target for the night kill unless scum!freezeblade is the strongman (in which case, due to the likelihood of me being jailed and freezeblade being tracked they may avoid the strongman kill and use a regular kill on another townie.)

SDK and freezeblade both being town would put us in a horrible position so let's hope SDK is scum.

There's one thing that may drive me to pick another target an that's the risk of freezeblade being modkilled. Tracking him would be a total waste in that case. Maybe moody would be a good alternative?
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Liri » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:57 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
My first game with jimbob (also my first game ever) he was mafia and town-read by everyone, so I'm continually suspicious of him now.

Plytho wrote: "SDK and freezeblade both being town would put us in a horrible position so let's hope SDK is scum."
tunneling.png
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:25 pm UTC

Meta mafia
Spoiler:
@plytho jimbob is boasting that he's never been lynched as town on this site. The only time he was lynched somebody copped him and he was mafia.

Not sure why people are talking about fb being modkilled. He saif he would still try to participate if no replacement was found.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SDK » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:34 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
plytho wrote:Also, I really want to win this game. I haven't won a town game since my very first so I didn't want to take the risk of scum!you messing this up.
...
This boast was another reason for me to hold my vote. You're saying you've never been caught as scum from your play, meaning you're extremely dangerous as scum so I need to hold on to any slip I see because you definitely won't slip twice. It also made me very eager to be part of the town that caught you without a cop.

A good way to win the game is to work with players like me Day 1 and Day 2, then lynch me Day 3 if I'm somehow still alive and haven't achieved results. Day 2 is okay, I guess, though I'm of the opinion that a chance for glory (catching me as scum) should never come ahead of winning the game. I hope you pull it off, but not because I'm impressed with your play. The thing I'm most surprised about is that you managed to get so many town to follow you - only one of the three scum was on me. I wonder if they had similar unstated reasons. Maybe I shouldn't be so arrogant (says SDK as part of an extremely arrogant paragraph).

Anyway, it was an interesting game for me, though frustrating. I've never been tunneled so hard for so long, or under so much sustained suspicion from so many people, so a bit of a different experience. :o
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Madge » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:58 am UTC

Meta

Spoiler:
Great flavour, bravo bessie. that moody wagon is weird though!!!
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vicarin » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:23 am UTC

Meta Mafia

Spoiler:
Yeah, I think just treating jimbob with suspicion in general is a good idea after this game, ugh.

Still surprised everyone tunneled on me so damn hard D1, but oh well.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SDK » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:04 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
Vicarin wrote:Still surprised everyone tunneled on me so damn hard D1, but oh well.

If it's any consolation, I was surprised by that too. Day 1 though, there's always a lack of great options, so I'm not really surprised you were lynched, mostly just that certain people seemed to be pushing it more strongly than it really deserved.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:39 pm UTC

Meta Mafia
Spoiler:
Oh shit.... What if I'm NKed and have to zombie replace in for FreezeBlade?!? Vicarin and SDK appear to have already read spoilers. If wam is actually scum buddies with Moody and FreezeBlade this will be sooooo awkward.

It's unlikely that all those assumptions are all true though, so I'll probably have some wiggle room. Which will be pretty fun. Actually it'd be fun anyway.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Liri » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:23 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
So, they might re-wagon moody and catch him, but that's gonna inoculate jimbob to a hefty extent.

LG was already getting some suspicion, but if he can play it off as vacation-related and give a strong D3, he might make it. There might be suspiciously low interaction between LG and jimbob (and between LG and moody), but that's a lot to bank on.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SDK » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:05 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
Liri wrote:LG was already getting some suspicion, but if he can play it off as vacation-related and give a strong D3, he might make it. There might be suspiciously low interaction between LG and jimbob (and between LG and moody), but that's a lot to bank on.

Things are going to start getting tighter for the scum team at this point. They need to make extra sure their interactions are genuine because (don't forget) the town gets all of Day 3 to help them out as well, even if they mislynch here. I think you're absolutely right that the town's in rough shape, and if this was all they had to go off of they'd be screwed. We need to just hope that we get enough good stuff going forward to tie them all together. Once we have that, lynch one and we might be able to get them all.

I'm primarily counting on BoomFrog here, not because I don't think the others are good players, but BoomFrog is particularly good at getting people to reveal their connections. That is what we need if we're going to stand a chance.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby freezeblade » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:55 pm UTC

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Spoiler:
Holy Crap. How did I get all three mafia in Team Orange?! :shock: 8-) I just put the names into a RNG to place them into teams.

Bit of IRL stuff, for anyone that was concerned: Sorry that I couldn't be more helpful, town. Work is exploding on me right now, and I have officially put in my notice, so there's more work for the next two weeks as I prepare for the handoff to whoever is getting all my live projects (the poor soul).

Onwards and upwards!
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Liri » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:46 pm UTC

Spoilered for OT IRL bits @freezeblade
Spoiler:
I am moving to pretty nearish you (Novato) from North Carolina in a couple months for grad school. Do you have any advice or tidbits of knowledge to share before I get there? I've been to the Bay Area twice before, most recently this past January for interviews. I am super excited about moving.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby freezeblade » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:20 pm UTC

Spoilered for OT IRL bits @Liri
Spoiler:
Liri wrote:I am moving to pretty nearish you (Novato) from North Carolina in a couple months for grad school. Do you have any advice or tidbits of knowledge to share before I get there? I've been to the Bay Area twice before, most recently this past January for interviews. I am super excited about moving.
North Bay! very awesome. I'm not too familiar with north bay, it's pretty cut off from the rest of the bay (BART doesn't really run to north bay).

Advice and tidbits for driving in the bay (seeing as how you'll be taking public transit less, being in north bay), expect all freeways that go towards SF between 6am-10am to be completely jam packed, then the opposite direction from 3pm-6pm or so. There are exceptions: expect the 580/80 freeway to always be jam packed as it passes besides Berkley. This area beginning around the Albany Exit, though the Maze [leadup to the bay bridge], and where it joins in with a bunch of other freeway routes before it splits back up again. right around this area: (https://goo.gl/maps/neiPNppLq342).

Planning around traffic is a part of life here. Hit me up when you move! I'm slumming it up in Oakland, which is like the Brooklyn of the bay area, and am always up to catch coffee or chat mafia!
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Liri » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:41 pm UTC

@freezeblade
Spoiler:
I'm trying my darnedest not to drive (my two housemates will each have a car, and my commute will be bikeable, and we'll be going to USC's LA campus for the spring semester, then back to Novato), but I'll almost certainly get a car once we move back up from LA (I am dreading the LA semester). I did learn about the lack of BART. Very NIMBYish up there, it seems. I'm also coming from a place where I paid $330/month for my own room in a house in a nice neighborhood near my campus.

Defo down to grab a beverage when I get there!
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:16 pm UTC

Meta Mafia
Spoiler:
I am the righteous fire of towniness. Finding me scummy now is a sign of scumminess. Looking at you wam and moody. (Laserguy gets a pass, questioning is illegitimate, mud slinging is not.)

Actually, wam I'm not totally sure about. I don't remember him being this good of a scum player. His actions mostly fit a misguided townie. We'll see which of them turns on the other first, and how natural of a transition it is.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby threetwoone » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:17 am UTC

Meta Mafia 2
Spoiler:
i’m feeling more and more saddened by the mood :(
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby bessie » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:02 pm UTC

Meta Mafia II
Spoiler:
threetwoone wrote:i’m feeling more and more saddened by the mood :(

I’m really sorry you’re unhappy with the flavor, threetwoone, I don’t think you’re the only one (at least Madge is entertained). I know I blew it and should have written it differently, but I’m not a very good writer, and whenever I tried to write something with no death it was really dry and dull. And I’ve been having nightmares about what I wrote, that’s why I’ve been away and not posting this week. I know I’m not talented enough to flip the mood completely away from what I’ve already started, but I'm determined to do my best, and I’ve been trying on D3 to at least make it not as dark.


For the rest of you, I’m working on an entertaining Gojoe post!

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Liri » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:28 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
Thank goodness wam is the fruit vendor. I think that might catch out LaserGuy or moody, but we'll see. Making oneself out to be an easy lynch target for scum to wagon then throwing out the fruit card might have been a good strategy. From a more experienced player like wam though, with scum knowing he's Town, maybe they'll catch on.

Who got the second piece of fruit!? I'd bet plytho.


Edit
Spoiler:
ha! Looks like jimbob is taking the bait
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby bessie » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:55 pm UTC

Meta Mafia II

Spoiler:
Ok Gojoe, here’s some mostly stream of consciousness thoughts I was working on over the weekend. I keep forgetting that this is Gojoe so I don’t need to make coherent posts. I guess I’ll just post what I have now instead of cleaning this up so Sabrar has something to read even though he has abandoned me me me and hasn’t posted for 10 days.

Vicarin wrote:Still surprised everyone tunneled on me so damn hard D1, but oh well.
Vicarin, I’ve been trying to think of some helpful feedback for you, so that you can improve your game. I think the best advice I can give you is that when you’re town and you’re going to be lynched is to just accept it and don’t even try to save yourself. You should be totally spilling your guts and saying anything and everything you can, and don’t worry about looking scummy because you’re going to be lynched anyway, and don’t worry about being wrong because you’ll be generating content. For an example, look at my content D1 of Wheel of Time 2. It was such a sure thing that I was going lynched, so I just went all out, posted and prodded all weekend, scum read everyone, and went to work Monday morning without even submitting a night action (and held up the game when I wasn’t lynched and jimbob kindly allowed me to submit my night action late). For an even better example, look at what SDK did in this game. He never lost sight of the goal, and concentrated on scum hunting and not his personal survival when his lynch was forthcoming.

Liri wrote: goddamn SDK is a good player
SDK has the magic gift (something I’ve said about very very few players, maybe three ever), and it breaks my heart that he doesn’t play during the school year. You want to improve your game, SDK is a good player to try to emulate if you can, just be sure to look beyond the SDK-gambits. I can’t give you any further advice as to how, as I can’t think or play the way he does. I don’t do behavior analysis or meta reads, and I have a very unreliable gut. But one of my gratifying moments ever as a player was Matt’s read of me me me in this post.

freezeblade wrote:Holy Crap. How did I get all three mafia in Team Orange?! :shock: 8-) I just put the names into a RNG to place them into teams.
Wait, you mean you not only rolled town, but the RNG gave you the entire scum team in the same game? Perhaps the RNG has stopped hating you! Or perhaps not, it did make jim!you scum.

The rest when I get home from work.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby freezeblade » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:45 pm UTC

Meta Mafia II @ bessie

Spoiler:
bessie wrote:Wait, you mean you not only rolled town, but the RNG gave you the entire scum team in the same game? Perhaps the RNG has stopped hating you! Or perhaps not, it did make jim!you scum.
I think that the RNG got confused, and rolled Jimbob scum instead of me.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

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Sabrar
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrar » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:27 pm UTC

Meta Mafia
Spoiler:
bessie wrote:I guess I’ll just post what I have now instead of cleaning this up so Sabrar has something to read even though he has abandoned me me me and hasn’t posted for 10 days.
I'm just laying low, collecting data for the next game where I will lead Town to a crushing victory due to my new and improved meta-reads... :lol:

Actually I just lost my drive to post, it's been a while that I was NK-d and it sucks. I think scum has it in the bags, moody will get lynched at some point (possibly today after wam claims (pedit: and I just read LaserGuy's new thoughts where he confirms this)) but both jimbob and LaserGuy distanced themselves to a sufficient degree. Mark and Madge look like the best mislynches for them and wam/plytho for the NK regardless whether they guess that plytho is Tracker.

BTW LaserGuy seems to know jimbob's result even though they don't have day-chat. I assume they prepared a signal/code for communicating it, was this allowed because the cryptography rules are more relaxed than usually?

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SDK » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:07 pm UTC

Meta
Spoiler:
Sabrar wrote:BTW LaserGuy seems to know jimbob's result even though they don't have day-chat. I assume they prepared a signal/code for communicating it, was this allowed because the cryptography rules are more relaxed than usually?

The ban on cryptography is not so that people don't use signals at all. It's totally fine for the mafia to communicate during the day in little ways like "the first letter of my first post will be [this] if [whoever] is a power role". What's not fine is the mafia setting up an elaborate code to communicate in much much more detail (like if moody's about to by lynched, he can communicate in gibberish to the rest of his team before he dies).

The reason the no cryptography rule was created (by my understanding, at least) had nothing to do with the scum at all - it was to stop the town from breaking the game. If you force each player at the start of the game to develop a code and post their role, then no information is given to scum, but it locks the entire game into claims (hence the term "cryptoclaim"). That way when I want to claim doctor later, I can explain my code and everyone knows that's exactly what I wrote there Day 1. Not impossible for scum, but it basically makes fake claims completely impossible and makes the game less fun for everyone. (Maybe you already knew that, Sabrar, but I've always found that explanation interesting)

tl;dr: LaserGuy and jimbob are doing nothing wrong (in my opinion).


bessie wrote:You want to improve your game, SDK is a good player to try to emulate if you can, just be sure to look beyond the SDK-gambits.

You want to know my secret? Spend hours and hours and hours combing through every single post until you know exactly what the other player is thinking at every point along the game's progression. In order to help that, communicate with as many players as possible (you are confirmed town to you, so those interactions are the best thing to go off of Day 1) and get as many opinions stated in-thread as possible. I felt a bit rusty this game, it wasn't coming quite so easily as it used to, but the time commitment has never been easy, even in my prime.

PS: I miss you too, bessie. :)
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrar » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:43 am UTC

Meta Mafia
Spoiler:
SDK wrote:(Maybe you already knew that, Sabrar, but I've always found that explanation interesting)
I didn't but it makes sense. BTW it is possible to make a cypher that encodes multiple clear-texts so scum can later choose what to claim, though I doubt many players would make the effort.

SDK wrote:It's totally fine for the mafia to communicate during the day in little ways like "the first letter of my first post will be [this] if [whoever] is a power role".
However I disagree here. No day-chat is clearly meant to prevent scum to privately communicate during the day so I don't think crumbing night-result should be allowed (not that it really matters here). But that's just my opinion, not based on anything substantial.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vicarin » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:49 am UTC

Meta Mafia part @ Sabrar

Spoiler:
While it's possible to have several clear texts for arbitrary encryptions, I think if town was going to employ this game breaking banned strategy, they'd require people to have decryption keys which don't look entirely random and the resulting message would probably have to be in a relatively standard format. Of course, then this makes it more likely that people would be able to decrypt the claims using this information... Ah well, it's banned anyway, and for good reason.

And yeah, totally fine with having little signals to indicate night results, totally not ok with scum sharing a 10,000 character 1 time pad in nightchat in case one of them needs to use it during the day. Mainly a matter of degree.

@Sabrar: one issue with not allowing that sort of communication is that it leads to some interesting situations. Say scum agree at night that they should try to push for A to be lynched, unless they get rolecopped as the fruit vendor, in which case B should be wagoned. Rolecop checks A, sees they are fruit vendor. Other scum look at what the rolecop does at the start of day, to know what to do. In this case, either the rolecop has to basically ignore their own result, or they have to possibly fall afoul of a no communication rule. Hard to ask people who have information to act as if they don't possess it (especially if you want people to play optimally :P).

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrar » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:56 am UTC

Meta Mafia
Spoiler:
Vicarin wrote:@Sabrar: one issue with not allowing that sort of communication is that it leads to some interesting situations. Say scum agree at night that they should try to push for A to be lynched, unless they get rolecopped as the fruit vendor, in which case B should be wagoned. Rolecop checks A, sees they are fruit vendor. Other scum look at what the rolecop does at the start of day, to know what to do. In this case, either the rolecop has to basically ignore their own result, or they have to possibly fall afoul of a no communication rule. Hard to ask people who have information to act as if they don't possess it (especially if you want people to play optimally :P).
Rolecop could just say 'follow my lead' in the chat during the night instead of crumbing a result during the day. That way there is no 'secret communication' but the others will still know what to do.
The line might be a thin one but it's there.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby bessie » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:10 am UTC

Meta Mafia II
Spoiler:
All right, where did I leave off?

Something I’ve been thinking about since D1, I really don’t understand all the fruit vendor discussion. Why shouldn’t the recipient claim? There is no disadvantage to scum, because it tells nothing about the recipient’s alignment. It does narrow the field as to who the fruit vendor is, and gives mafia a better shot at hitting the tracker. The fruit vendor may have to claim before the day is over anyway.

Liri wrote: Defo down to grab a beverage when I get there!
What about me me me? I’m in LA metro, and I like coffee too! :P

freezeblade wrote:Planning around traffic is a part of life here. Hit me up when you move! I'm slumming it up in Oakland, which is like the Brooklyn of the bay area, and am always up to catch coffee or chat mafia!
I might be in Oakland for a few days next month. I got invited to a party in Alameda. I probably won't go, but haven't ruled it out completely yet.

Sabrar wrote:Actually I just lost my drive to post, it's been a while that I was NK-d and it sucks.
Sabrar, you should feel quite proud that mafia considered you dangerous enough to kill you! It means they fear your supercomputer brain. Contrast that with how I almost never get night killed, even when I’m desperately trying to get killed, like in WoT2 and Newbie New Year. No one fears me; everyone must know my brain is only running a Pentium. :?

Sabrar wrote: BTW LaserGuy seems to know jimbob's result even though they don't have day-chat. I assume they prepared a signal/code for communicating it, was this allowed because the cryptography rules are more relaxed than usually?
I’ll hold off discussing specifics while the game is running, but in principle, what SDK said. It’s been discussed here before, see this page for one example, I’m sure there were other times but my search skills are not equal to Deva’s.

SDK wrote:It's totally fine for the mafia to communicate during the day in little ways like "the first letter of my first post will be [this] if [whoever] is a power role".
Which if I remember correctly, is very similar to what you and I did as masons in Diablo. I somehow gave you my watcher result in my first post of the day. :)

SDK wrote:You want to know my secret? Spend hours and hours and hours combing through every single post until you know exactly what the other player is thinking at every point along the game's progression.
Do you not understand what you are describing? :o I too read for hours and hours too and I am hardly aware of what I myself am thinking, let alone anyone else. :P Besides, your explanation doesn’t explain how you did this. Or this. Or even this. Nope, SDK is magic, and nothing will ever convince me otherwise. :mrgreen:

And happy Fathers Day SDK! (and BoomFrog, LaserGuy, Suzaku, and anyone else to which this applies) So with two kids you get twice as many gifts this year, right? :D


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