Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Game Over, Sith Win)

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willwithskills
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby willwithskills » Fri May 07, 2010 9:24 pm UTC

So, based off that post, It actually could be a possible LYLO today, and we just wouldn't know. That would mean, however, that there are still two Sith left. As I have said previously, I really don't think that is the case, so I'm guessing today is not a possible LYLO. This gives us some breathing room to make our pick for today.

As for what I think on the current players, no one really jumps out at me. There's Asmodieus being lurky, but there isn't a whole lot there. One thing I would like to mention is that Dr. Ug said that he didn't provide an IRL reason for his lurkiness, when he actually did (AP test or some such). This seems like quite a slip-up on Dr. Ug's part, because it means that he either isn't reading carefully enough or is trying to heap suspicion on a possible innocent. I find this especially weird for Dr. Ug because it always seems like he puts together his posts extremely carefully, always making sure he gets his point across as clearly as possible. Just another thing to throw into the pile marked "reasons to find Dr. Ug suspicious."

Krong I trust completely at this point, which honestly scares me more than anyone else. The minute you start trusting someone for little reason is the minute you lose the ability to catch them acting like scum. He seems the most townie, but I'll still watch his posts carefully.

As for Darkname... I really am not quite sure what to think. His posts sure aren't easy to analyze. I have found some very shady things about him, though, like in the following post.
Darkname wrote:Well, Dr Ug , Me , and the lurker are probably the only people i would call any kind of scummy right now

At this point in the game, I don't think anybody actually accused him of anything except lurking, so being so quick to jump to your own defense or acknowledging the false suspicion on you is a bit of a scumtell.

That's all I have for now, no vote yet. I want to hear what Asmodieus has to say.
So it goes.

Dromtry wrote:
willwithskills wrote: I colored sufficiently large purpose on my tail end.

You have a large red hiney?

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Krong
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Krong » Sun May 09, 2010 2:01 am UTC

Hmm. I've seen Asmodieus online, but he hasn't posted. I want to hear his defense, but if he's just going to continue to lurk... bleh.
willwithskills wrote:Krong I trust completely at this point, which honestly scares me more than anyone else. The minute you start trusting someone for little reason is the minute you lose the ability to catch them acting like scum. He seems the most townie, but I'll still watch his posts carefully.

Heh, this seems like kind of a backhanded compliment. But definitely check into what I'm saying, because if I'm missing something or making an error in judgment, I'd want to know, too.
The answer to the question "What’s wrong with the world?" is just two words: "I am." -- G. K. Chesterton (attributed)

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Asmodieus » Sun May 09, 2010 2:21 am UTC

I was writing an analysis on Dr. Ug. I still have stuff to write.
OMGUS all you want, but he seems more scummy to me more than ever.

I gotta say, the reason I posted the analyses that I did was because I felt I wasnt posting enough and that I needed to get my foot in the door in regards to discussion.

And then I kept on forgetting about the fact that I was supposed to be participating in the game.

Also, about the "lying about having an AP test", would you like me to take a picture of the classes I'm taking so I can show you I'm taking AP Europen history along with the AP testing schedule?
Tillian wrote:Yeah, but the polar bears get more territorial during the summer, so we have to stay indoors.

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Asmodieus » Sun May 09, 2010 2:25 am UTC

But, he could also be a Hutt considering his claim early on in the game of having a minor power role.
Tillian wrote:Yeah, but the polar bears get more territorial during the summer, so we have to stay indoors.

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Asmodieus » Sun May 09, 2010 2:26 am UTC

EBWOP forget that, he said it was near-vanilla, and I doubt Hutt can be considered vanilla
Tillian wrote:Yeah, but the polar bears get more territorial during the summer, so we have to stay indoors.

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Krong » Sun May 09, 2010 4:02 am UTC

Asmodieus wrote:I was writing an analysis on Dr. Ug. I still have stuff to write.
OMGUS all you want, but he seems more scummy to me more than ever.

I gotta say, the reason I posted the analyses that I did was because I felt I wasnt posting enough and that I needed to get my foot in the door in regards to discussion.

And then I kept on forgetting about the fact that I was supposed to be participating in the game.

Also, about the "lying about having an AP test", would you like me to take a picture of the classes I'm taking so I can show you I'm taking AP Europen history along with the AP testing schedule?

I think he said you hadn't given a reason for lurking, not that you were lying about it. Either he missed it or he was trying to mislead us in that way, but no one said you were lying about having an AP test.

As for the rest, don't just say Dr Ug is scummy, tell us why. You're under some serious suspicion for active lurking, and you're just continuing to do so here.
The answer to the question "What’s wrong with the world?" is just two words: "I am." -- G. K. Chesterton (attributed)

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Krong » Sun May 09, 2010 4:05 am UTC

EBWOP: And by tell us why, I mean just say so in your post rather than promising an analysis for later. Even if it's something like "he keeps contradicting himself" without specifics until your later post, you should tell us just so we know what you're getting at.
The answer to the question "What’s wrong with the world?" is just two words: "I am." -- G. K. Chesterton (attributed)

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Dr Ug » Sun May 09, 2010 11:13 pm UTC

Asmodieus wrote:I was writing an analysis on Dr. Ug. I still have stuff to write.
OMGUS all you want, but he seems more scummy to me more than ever.

I gotta say, the reason I posted the analyses that I did was because I felt I wasnt posting enough and that I needed to get my foot in the door in regards to discussion.

And then I kept on forgetting about the fact that I was supposed to be participating in the game.

Also, about the "lying about having an AP test", would you like me to take a picture of the classes I'm taking so I can show you I'm taking AP Europen history along with the AP testing schedule?
I never said you were "lying about having an AP test" as you misquoted. I said:
Dr Ug wrote:It makes me think it was deliberate rather than RL concerns (especially as he has not made a RL excuse)
and admittedly I had missed the fact that you said you had an AP test. Still, please don't misquote me it just makes you even more scummy.

I would second Krong's request that you give more information about why I am scummy. So far you have failed to do that, and even in your defense posts you have next to no content (appart from lying about me - and yes this time I am claiming you lied, by misquoting me). My vote remains until you post some content, and probably even after that point.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Asmodieus » Sun May 09, 2010 11:44 pm UTC

I guess I misread your post and saw it as a deliberate ignoring of what I had said about the AP test.

Any way, at this point I'm pretty sure everyones convinced I'm scum and my analysis is just OMGUS, so this is a lost cause.

And about posting just a bit. I was just reposnding to Krong, because he thought I was lurking again. I was in the middle of writing and those posts are a "give me a second" I'm still writing sort of post.

Dr Ug wrote:
Asmodieus wrote:Dr_Ug. Nking him would be a problem, because he seems to be the one who has generated the most discussion in the game so far. So killing him would be bad since scum wouldn't be able to use his posts as a jumping off point to start an accusation or get suspicion on someone.
This post espeically I don't like. From my view (knowing I am town), this almost looks like scum setting up a link with me so that if he's lynched as scum, I look suspicious. I know there's oh so much wine in that last statement I made, but it's enough to make me want to:

Vote: Asmodieus

Also, if we could avoid hammering before Asmodieus gets a chance to at least respond that would be swell - something we've avoided doing with all lynches in this game thus far.

Two: I'm not really understanding how that post would work as me trying to set up some sort of link with you. I was simply trying to give explanations for why you, among other people were not lynched. I'm getting a strong feeling that you're the scum here.

Analysis of Dr. Ug.
Lets skip the pre-game crap and go to the actual gaming.

Role speculation. Towny, contributing, alls well.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:Role speculation time. I'm assuming given we're told it's episode VII that this is going to make sense from a continuity point of view (This could easily be wrong). Also I only know the movies, not the books etc. (which IIRC are considered canon). It's possible we have characters from the books.

Potential characters:

Explicitly stated in OP:

Luke (?Mason)
Leia (?Mason)
Han Solo (?mason)

Other likely characters:
R2D2 (?can control droids / control something)
C3PO (something diplomacy-y)
Chewbacca (?Vig)
Lando (unsure)
Jabba (?cult, likely independant anyway)
Boba Fett (?Lyncher)


Possible races / character types (either a known or unknown character): Ewoks, droids (including battle droids), stormtroopers, clones (?Cult), wookies)

Possible but less likely
Yoda (as a bluey)
Obiwan (as a bluey)
Qui-Gon (as a bluey)
Even less likely (as they're dead and not a bluey):
Dart Vader / Anakin
The Emporer / Palpatine
Amidala

Probable Scum:
Sith Lord (?Name - ?returned dead sith or new sith?)
Sith Apprentice

I'm going to have to do a bit of reading about the books to make myself familiar with what happens after the end of episode VI in the canon, as I have zero knowledge of this.


More role speculation, nothing much to say here.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:Regarding the Sith, there are always two. Always two. If one dies, they are replaced.

I think if we kill a sith they may get a recruit (Perhaps just a one-off to make it not unbalanced).

So much for my speculation if noone is canon...


Here, Dr. Ug claims that his role is on this list
Spoiler:
As far as the Roles go, without any canon characters, I imagine the cast will probably be a bit vauge. Probably things like
Jedi Master (With some power, maybe just masons)
Jedi Trainee (With some weaker power, maybe just masons)
Bounty Hunter (Serial Killer? Lyncher?)
Intergalactic Smuggler (Smuggles stuff... dunno. Probably Independent)
Galactic Senator (With some political power. Vote block?)
Galactic Citizen (Vanilla Town)
Holonet Reporter (Cop?)
Galactic Police (Cop?)
Sith Lord (GodFather? Some Extra Power? Can recruit a second sith person?)
Sith Non-Lord (Some Lower Level Scum thing)
Wookie Body Guard (Protects Someone? Lover with someone? Kills whoever targets person they protect?)
Astromech(something like that) Droid (Repairs things? Not sure how that works? Power of being generally awesome with jet packs?)
Protocol Droid (Translator..?)
Doctor Droid (Doctor).
. He claims that he has a power, but goes on to say that his power is minor, very vague, most likely to get rid of peoples suspicions. We can assume at this point that its only Sith and vanilla townies, so to lie about his role early in the game is quite suspicious. Apart from that, he then accuses BigNose, EXTREMELY early in the game, he then covers it by saying that it could just be a nooby mistake and that he'll remove the vote it BigNose responds properly. In retrospect, scummy. A ruse to make himself look protown and to start a possible bandwagon early on and to get someone lynched quick.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
BigNose wrote:
Weeks wrote:Well, I don't think it's 1 scum and 11 citizens, because Dr Ug already said his role's in that list, and I can confirm mine is too.
So that makes both you Galaxy Citizens? It fits, but doesn't help.
Um...
Dr Ug wrote:I very much think that most roles will be loosely based on canon characters as F_C has speculated, just without the names to make them canon. I confirm that my role is in the above list, and would also be relatively easy to correlate with a canon character, but the name was not mentioned in my PM.
Does that sound like I'm claiming galactic citizen?

Also considering Weeks said that his role, in conjunction with my claim, rules out 1 scum 11 citizens I don't think he's claiming galactic citizen either.

Given the near-vanillaness of my role, I'd say that most people have some minor power, as well as a few with true power roles.

I'm going to

Vote: Bignose

for trying to mislead town. (I'm not sure if you are new to the game, if so I will apologise and unvote to give you the benefit of the doubt)


Now here, Dr. Ug is suspicious of Brooklyn for voting the same way he did. Kinda funky.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:I'm happy with that, and (especially as you are a newbie), feel that was quite a town-like defense. I shall

Unvote: Bignose.

BXM has once again managed to ping my 'dar a little with his vote, as he completely ignored me and basically mirrored my vote, but for Will. Probably just BXM being BXM though. For the moment it's just a FoS: BXM while I await people to do something discussion-worthy.



Justifies his suspicions by saying that Brooklyn just always seems scummy to him. Sounds pretty weak to me.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:I like that you didn't react violently to my vote. Some newbies (but also scum sometimes) do this.

I still say your logic was flawed. I said that my role could easily have a name (from the movies) applied to it, and thus was not "galactic citizen".

As for the mirroring, it was more the way he voted. (ie without much real reason, more to make a point and stimulate discussion - ie mirroring my vote on you). However given I'd already just done this I find it a little suspicious. But BXM does stuff I find suspicious all the time. Even when he's town.


Tells me to post content or get the vote. This is pretty town, trying to encourage discussion. Then, he has a change of heart about the whole FoS thing which will not be spoken of any further and votes for Brooklyn. If he voted for Bignose, why didnt he just vote for Brooklyn? Both justifications for suspicion were tenuous at best, so why not just vote on both cases?
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
Asmodieus wrote:Well, as of yet, I have nothing of substance to contribute to the thread, since it seems that role analysis has been taken as far as it can with the information we have so far.

But, I want to make my presence known. So I'll post a Star Wars related video
Strangely enough there is more to talk about than role spec. What do you think of bignose? Willwithskills? Me? BXM? Anyone else. All you're doing in this post is commencing an active lurking campaign which makes you look like scum. Post some content otr you get my vote.

As for BXM, I am coming round to Az's view on FOS's (why I voted bignose rather than FOS), and thusly I:

Vote: BXM


Nothing said here, just some banter.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
Weeks wrote:Why is Return of the Jedi not as good as the other two? I should re-watch them to remember I think...
All those damn townies. Oh, I mean Ewoks.


Follows VectorZeros vote on Weeks about the whole FoS thing. Feels like flawed logic to me, but theres not much to say about this besides that. Just bandwagonning.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
VectorZero wrote:
Weeks wrote:BTW, I don't understand why the talk about FoSing has become the center of attention. @VZ, I never said it was a rule, either, just a possible aid.

To look so deeply into something so useless as whether FoSing is good or not makes me think scum is trying to persuade us into not analyzing them. So I believe BigNose and VZ are appropriate lynch candidates.
Er, what? I said FoS are a personal thing and we should move on. You dragged the discussion back by claiming they were for sorting out ties!
Weeks, you're the one that started this conversation... (like VZ just said)..
Weeks wrote:About FoS'ing: I also used it for personal reference...But they're also used to sort out ties, the one with most FoSs gets lynched.


Unvote: BXM
Vote: Weeks


He justifies his erratic voting pattern, now and covers himself for later on in the game by saying he is taking up a new playing style. Suspicious as pointed out by a few of you. Then he votes CF for being lurky. Nothing here.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
Dr Ug tried to post this yesterday but failed to wrote:
Weeks wrote:
Dr Ug wrote:
VectorZero wrote:
Weeks wrote:BTW, I don't understand why the talk about FoSing has become the center of attention. @VZ, I never said it was a rule, either, just a possible aid.

To look so deeply into something so useless as whether FoSing is good or not makes me think scum is trying to persuade us into not analyzing them. So I believe BigNose and VZ are appropriate lynch candidates.
Er, what? I said FoS are a personal thing and we should move on. You dragged the discussion back by claiming they were for sorting out ties!
Weeks, you're the one that started this conversation... (like VZ just said)..
Weeks wrote:About FoS'ing: I also used it for personal reference...But they're also used to sort out ties, the one with most FoSs gets lynched.


Unvote: BXM
Vote: Weeks
Yeah, and you just jumped over, what, five, six posts of discussion about it to say I started it? And not only that, I only posted about a couple of lines on the whole topic, afterwards there a few more posts on it not by me. I don't feel like quoting everything exactly because you saw what happened on page 2.

I would be tempted to group you with BigNose and VZ.
When I said you started the discussion, I really meant that you made it last as long as it did by bringing up a rule from another forum about FoS's deciding draws. Admittedly this is an easy assumption to make if you've played a lot elsewhere. This made me recall your post more than the ones before it.

I'm also trying a different playstyle this game, in that I'm not holding back on votes at all. I'm expressing my current highest suspicion level by having a vote on someone pretty much all the time. This is because I'm tired of days dragging out with 0 votes until ~1-2 days before a deadline at which ~1/4 of the players will vote and a non-majority lynch happens. This is not good for town. As a result i plan on voting early, and probably changing my vote quite a bit.

In order to continue this I will:

Unvote: Weeks.

Now... CF seems to be posting relatively regularly, with very little content:
crucialityfactor wrote:I'm a Tauntaun.
This post annoyed me at the time he posted as it followed a few role specs, and just seemed to be wanting to post without risking anything. Still, joking early D1 is done by many people, including me so I can't really complain about it.
crucialityfactor wrote:I'm hoping that there's a Stormtrooper Serial Killer who has a 10% chance to kill each night, but can shoot at each target multiple times.

Cause we all know how Stormtroopers stuck at shooting things.
Another joke post. A joke post trying to look like role spec.
crucialityfactor wrote:I thought you've played quite a few games asmmod...
And that's it so far. A very low amount of content, and we all know what frequent, low content posting means. Active lurking, which now makes CF my number 1 suspect.

Vote: crucialityfactor
So this is the post I meant to post last night before leaving work, except that it was still open in a tab this morning when I went looking for it after not finding it in the thread... d'oh

Also I just noticed that BigNose posted a similar suspicion of CF ~2 days ago, but we are yet to see anything from CF. Time to turn the heat up.

Anyway I think it still applies, so I'm going to again,

Unvote: Weeks

Vote: crucialityfactor
for the reasons listed in my above failed post.


Suggests that we post our lists of players, ranking them from most town to most scummy. Very towny, as it gets people to put information out there. Alternatively, he could have used the list information to find out who people found most suspicious collectively to try and get a bandwagon set up.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
Azrael001 wrote:
BigNose wrote:This has given me an interesting idea. As a test, why don't we individually rank everyone playing in order of percieved scummyness(1,2,3...n-2,n-1,n) where 1 is most town and n is least town and n=#of players. Once everyone has their list ready, everyone posts them at the same time (or as close as possible to that). We then pick the person with the highest score and lynch them. Day one seems like the best time to do this, as (hopefully) the scum won't be able to collaborate.
This idea has some merit, on day 1 though I think it's likely to be heavily influenced by random.org. I think it may be worth a try though. Kinda forces scum to post information which they would tend to try to avoid on day 1. May be an issue getting everybody online at the same time to post them at the same time though, and this may let scum use it to get whoever they like lynched (by waiting to be last to post and then putting the highest ranked (to that point) townie number 1), but doing this would also be quite a big scumtell. (nothing like typing out my thoughts on something as I'm thinking them... man this post is getting a bit hard to read probably...)

I think we should do it.


More on the lists, agrees with Azrael on the whole not ranking yourself thing. Nothing here.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:Well, the only place anyone can (or would) rank themselves is the most towny to them. If they're town they *Know* that they are town and so by definition they're the most town. If they're scum, they want to appear town so will still rank themselves as the most town.

But yes, naot ranking yourself is probably better as ranking yourself gives no data.


Votes for Bignose for looking scummy. Its justified, since his post was pretty fishy.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
BigNose wrote:Personally I wouldn't want to throw out my perspective of all for public appraisal.
I prefer to throw out and seen thrown out, accusations and then look for responses. They are the most revealing.
By the end of the day, I must 'show my hand' by voting.
I certainly have a candidate for Scum, but I will keep my vote as-is for the day, unless we do actually get something from CF.
Well I can tell you who is at the scum end of my list. Bignose why are worried about keeping your hand to yourself, to continue your metaphor. If you are town, most of us are on your team, unless of course you are on the other team, which is what I'm thinking now.

Almost all information is good for town, so unless you have a good reason for this post, this likely to be permanent:

Unvote:crucialityfactor

Vote: bignose

I still want to hear from CF and I still think we should do Az's idea. I don't think the timing of posting our lists is that important, as Amy suggested.


Points out how scummy Bignose is looking because he doesnt say who he feels is scummy. Towny looking post
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
BigNose wrote:
VectorZero wrote:If night falls before you show your hand . . .
. . . if you have thoughts D1, SHARE THEM. Often we don't, and lynch randomly. I return to my earlier point: if you think someone is scum, lynch them!
I had assumed that the GameMod won't just slam shut Day into Night. I am expecting atleast 2 days notice and as you can see, I post most days, even multiple posts per day, so therefore assumed that I would be able to vote before Night.
As has already been stated, if a wagon gets rolling quickly (which it's going to if you keep acting like this), you may not get that chance.
BigNose wrote:Also, if I find that there are 5 or 6 votes for whom I suspect, then I would jump ship and vote for them.
So you'd be willing to share your suspicions as long as it's not risky... You do realise how scummy this looks right?
BigNose wrote:Regarding sharing my thoughts, I think that I have posted most often and most content (that's gut-feel rather than actual count) and carried out analysis and identified potential townie/scum.
This is just blatantly untrue. Especially in recent posts. Posts of "I know something but I'm not going to tell you what it is" is not content.
BigNose wrote:My thinking is that if we vote out a scum on the first night, then I have a candidate for the 2nd too. Even if we don't, they have been either voted out, (watch my vote), or a good candidate (in my eyes) for Night 2.
The problem with your reasoning here is what if you're not around day 2. You could easily be NK'd by the scum. Or (and this is looking more and more likely) you could get lynched. Then, assuming you are town, we would be deprived of your insight, including this "good candidate". Please give us some reason why you don't want to share other than "it's the way I play the game".
BigNose wrote:I'm trying to play the game my way. If you think my analysis is wrong, or my voting suspicious, then treat me as scum and vote me out.
You haven't posted your analysis. You've said you have done it but don't want to share it until day 2. This is what is suspicious (the not wanting to post your information). The reason this is scummy is because scum don't want to risk posting analysis / suspicions as it can catch them out later in the game.
BigNose wrote:I'll learn.
If you're town I'd prefer you learned before you get lynched, as this is better for town. I wont' answer the question to Hendu as he has already answered it.

Until you reveal your "analysis" and "lynch candidate", my vote stays on you.


Posts his list of suspicions like everyone was going to be expected to do.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:To get my list in before end of day:

Scummy:
1. BigNose
2. crucialityfactor
3. Asmodieus
4. Weeks
5. Brooklynxman
Semi-lurky / hard to read:
6. NaR
7. Vectorzero
8. willwithskills
Towny:
9. Flying_Cookie
10. Sungura
11. Azrael001


Pushes for everyone to get their list out, lest they be suspected of scummery. Another towny looking post as he's trying to get people to get information out there.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:EBWOP: Oh, and an FoS on those who (a) haven't got a list out yet, and (b) hammered BigNose before everyone had a list out and/or responded further to our request for his "highly suspected scum".


Is suspicious of Weeks and Brooklyn for rushing the lynch through. Votes and FoS's for them. Towny post because it did seem like they were rushing through the lynch. We later find out that they miscounted and that they were the Jedi.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:Ok, so people rushed the lynching of a townie, perhaps to stop people listing their suspicion lists. I think all those who didn't get in before night should still post their lists. Perhaps the rest of us should also repost our lists again.

In the meantime:

Vote: Weeks
FoS: BXM


for hammering BigNose before people could post their lists (as was the plan of the majority of the town). I await some form of explanation why they rushed the lynch through.


Asks for modprod on CF. He posts his new suspicions list. Arguement between Sungura and Dr. Ug. As said before, it could be a ploy to get suspicion off of him incase one of them gets lynched.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:We haven't heard from CF in ~11 days

Can we get a modprod on CF?
Sungura wrote:I think Dr Ug's quick vote for weeks for being the hammer vote is quick and actually unwarented, so that is quite unsettling, seems to me like he's trying to get an easy bandwagon starting.
You may think this, but I feel it is warranted. Weeks was 4th on my scummy list after BigNose (who we lynched) CF (who I feel is inactive rather than deliberately lurking), and Asmodieus. Given that the resolution of my list is not great, that final act on Day 1 (ie hammering BigNose before we could discuss more and everyone could get their lists in) is enough to make me vote.

I have already said I intend to have a vote on for most of the time in this game, partly as an experiment in a new playstyle. I don't think we should rush through a vote, and a single vote does not a bandwagon make. A much better way to start a wagon is to accuse someone, without voting, wait for someone to vote on them, and then vote on them. And oh look, Amy has accused me without voting. It'll be interesting to see what she does if someone else votes for me.

I would, however, be interested in why you find breaking the plan of town, which had been clearly expressed, and speed-hammering a townie does not warrant a vote. You are no longer on my "Townie" list.

Scummy:
1. Weeks
2. Brooklynxman
3. crucialityfactor (although possibly Absent is a better way of discribing him)
Semi-lurky / hard to read:
4. Asmodieus
5. NaR
6. Sungura
7. Vectorzero
8. willwithskills
Towny:
9. Flying_Cookie
10. Krong
[/quote]


Explains why he thinks that Weeks is scummy and says Sungura seems a bit scummy too... for uhh, not agreeing with him about Weeks I guess. He says Bignose pointed her out specifically, but he was pretty much on angry defensive once he had votes on him.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
Sungura wrote:Also, there was no "speed-hammer". BigNose was under suspicion from early on and the votes were pretty strung out, he got quite a few replies in to the charges brought against him and yet kept getting more votes from everyone. I think you missunderstand what a speed lynchin'/speed hammering is.Votes and times (AEST) on BigNose:

NaR: 12/4 3:51am
Dr Ug: 15/4 8:38pm
Amy: 15/4: 10:22pm
VZ: 16/4: 9:19am
F_C: 16/4: 9:58am
Az: 16/4: 10:21am
Weeks: 16/3: 11:04am Hammers
BXM: 16/4: 1:27pm Overhammers

So that's a huge 1 hr 45 minutes between votes 4 and 7 (ie going from less than half the to-lynch number to the hammer). Maybe I am using the wrong term here (maybe you're using it to mean scum all voting on a non-town at LYLO when a town votes for a town?) Ok not speed hammer then, just an ultra-fast hammer. Sure he got a lot of posts in between NaR and me, and then again between Amy and VZ, but he did not post again before the end of day. And the pressure of 3 votes to defend is a lot less than the pressure of 6.

This is why I think it's scummy:

BigNose had threatened that he had a good lynch candidate, but wanted to raise it tomorrow. We, as town, thought this meant he was scum. But perhaps the scum interpreted it as
Possible Scum Thinking wrote:he is a town power role, and has identified one of us, but luckily he's a newbie and he's slipped up by letting it out. He needs to die. And before he changes his mind (for instance when he's at hammer-1), and outs one of us, we should hammer him.
There was no deadline. There was no towny reason (at least that I can think of) to rush the lynch through. As you said we should have at least discussed the option of the lists more before ending day (the main reason I didn't post my list until after the hammer, but before day end). And we definitely should have let BigNose say something when he was closer to hammer than 3 / 7 votes when he posted this:
BigNose wrote:[spoiler]
VectorZero wrote:If night falls before you show your hand . . .
. . . if you have thoughts D1, SHARE THEM. Often we don't, and lynch randomly. I return to my earlier point: if you think someone is scum, lynch them!
I had assumed that the GameMod won't just slam shut Day into Night. I am expecting atleast 2 days notice and as you can see, I post most days, even multiple posts per day, so therefore assumed that I would be able to vote before Night.
Also, if I find that there are 5 or 6 votes for whom I suspect, then I would jump ship and vote for them.

Regarding sharing my thoughts, I think that I have posted most often and most content (that's gut-feel rather than actual count) and carried out analysis and identified potential townie/scum.
My thinking is that if we vote out a scum on the first night, then I have a candidate for the 2nd too. Even if we don't, they have been either voted out, (watch my vote), or a good candidate (in my eyes) for Night 2.

I'm trying to play the game my way. If you think my analysis is wrong, or my voting suspicious, then treat me as scum and vote me out.

I'll learn.

GameMod: Are you going to provide an indication of Nightfall (by days preferably), if the lynch vote remains below 11?
Which also seems to suggest he thought all 11 people needed to vote before the day ended, or that you need a 100% vote to be lynched (or at least some sort of confusion over when day ended). I think he thought he'd get a chance to tell us his suspicion before day end. And I think scum thought that too, and didn't want to let him.

My vote and FoS remain on Weeks and BXM respectively. "I didn't realise" is not an excuse that is going to stand in my book.

Also interesting to note that his second last post:
BigNose wrote:
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:Bignose why are worried about keeping your hand to yourself, to continue your metaphor. If you are town, most of us are on your team, unless of course you are on the other team, which is what I'm thinking now.
Almost all information is good for town, so unless you have a good reason for this post, . . .

On Day 1, my thoughts are that I would prefer to get rid of those who are not contributing to the game, let alone lurking. For this reason, my vote stays on CF. Yes, he could be town and until we get a response, we cant't tell, so it's a forcing vote.
On Day 2, all should have supplied some form of content, thus I can now produce my version of evidence against who I think is most scummiest at the moment, using content from Day 1 to back that up. I already see that others have a similar thought, so loss of 1 Townie (for non-contribution) is not good, but it's the way I want to play it at the moment.
TRUE. All info is good.
Sungura wrote:Between all of the stuff at the beginning with "lol I'm a newbie" to now not wanting to even discuss who he thinks is scum, I:
Vote: BigNose
No explanation, jumping on a possible bandwagon = possible scum. Without further review of posts, my conclusion/response is hasty, but info is info.
seemed to point a (qualified) finger at Amy. I'm begining to think that if Weeks / BXM are scum, Amy probably is too.


[/spoiler]

Guess he forgets about Sungura because he doesnt mention her as being scummy anymore and asks her what her opinion on the matter is.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
Sungura wrote:Thanks for explaining your reasoning, it makes more sense now. I understand what you mean by a speed hammer now.
However, I still don't think weeks is really that scummy, so while I follow your reasoning I don't agree with your conclusion.
I'm glad you didn't take that the wrong way, I thought you had misunderstood my point. If you don't think weeks is that scummy, what about BXM? He admittedly didn't realise that BigNose had already been hammered (or at least this is what he claims), and the reasoning for weeks applies also to BXM. And BXM was second on your list at end of day 1. Has something else changed to make you less suspicious of him?

The main reason I voted Weeks and FoS'd BXM was because I found weeks a bit more scummy D1. But only by one position, and as I stated a few posts ago, the resolution of my list is much bigger than 1 position. That and BXM used the same excuse as weeks. I really think at least one of them is scum.

Nija'd by EBWOP: Sure I agree that BigNose was always going to be lynched once he made his response to your and my votes. However, even though he was very unlikely to stop his lynching, he may have revealed his "big suspicion".



Sort of takes back what he said about Sungura, by saying that he's really just suspicious of BXM and Weeks, and that Sunguras post merely jumped out at him. Kind of contradictory since he said that if BXM and Weeks are scummy than so is Sungura. Then he mentions how he always tries to lead the town. Which is good if he's town, but is scary if he's scum and people trust him like they do now.
[spoiler]
Dr Ug wrote:I am not trying to push for anything on sungura (which is what you seem to be claiming). I merely mentioned that she was the last person to be accused as an aside. My main point (and only real point) is against weeks and BXM, and I thought that was fairly clear from my posting. I do not think BigNose was necessarily onto someone. I think he's unlikely to be a power role based on the death flavour. However given he was not scum, scum may have been worried that he was a power role, based on his claim of having a "good" lynch candidate, and being reluctant to talk about it.

I am not defending BigNose in any way, he played the first day badly as a townie. I also don't think he really had a good lynch target. That being said, I feel like scum may have thought he was, and tried to rush his lynch through.

The only reason I brought up his quote against sungura was because it jumped out at me (being the last person he accused, and her seeming to want to ignore the second half of the voting pattern).

Oh, and if you think me trying to
Krong wrote:[push] town a certain direction.
is unusual, refer to my sig.


Not much here.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:I'm interested to see that the last two people who have found me scummy, have also found weeks scummy for the same reason I did.


Is suspicious of Brooklyn. Suggests that the us is some sort of tell, showing that they are somehow allied. We later find out that they are both jedi. Reaffirms his suspicion of weeks for hammering and suggests that we all look at everyone in the game before we proceed.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
Brooklynxman wrote:You are keeping a vote on us because you won't accept our explanation, even though for me its pretty much guaranteed (why vote if its past the hammer) and there is no reason to disbelieve Weeks. If we agree Bignose was speed lynched then why not agree its possible someone didn't realize just how close it was to lynch due to the speed? I haven't been responding to avoid the OMGUS but this is getting ridiculous.
I have a vote on weeks, not you. I find it interesting that you consider yourselves an "us". So what exactly is your allegiance to weeks? I admit that overhammering would be a bit strange for scum to make. I think it's possible you did just miscount. It's also possible that weeks misread also, but it's also possible he's scum hammered to end day 1 ASAP with a townie lynch.

As for me not believing you both just misread, that is my opinion. You don't have to agree with me. I am not suggesting we need to lynch weeks, and especially not right now. I currently think he is the best candidate so far, however it is very early on day 2, so we have plenty of time to review weeks as well as everyone else who is playing (including me).


More reaffimation of his suspicion on Weeks. Brooklyn defends weeks, and as we find out later, it turns out that both of them were jedi.
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:
Brooklynxman wrote:You have consistently grouped me with weeks in this, and FOS'ed me and only didn't vote me because weeks was the hammer. If the case on me doesn't stand the case on Weeks is barely there.

Anyway, why would scum hammer when it was going so fast they could sit back and let a townie do it.
Because it forces the end of day. and you can always use this as an argument to defend.



Tries to clear his name by analyzing Sungura. Could be wine, but seems towny. I didnt put it up here, because it breaks my spoiler tags.

and then the few posts that came up these couple of days.


My hang ups are his erratic voting pattern, which he justifies by saying that he is just trying a new play style, which is strange in and of itself. Secondly, that claim early on in the game. And third, his debacle with Sungura which could be a ruse to get suspicion away from himself. Also, the fact that Weeks said that he had some evidence that they had a connection make me believe that Dr. Ug is scummy.

Also, sorry for the broken tags.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Dr Ug » Mon May 10, 2010 1:22 am UTC

Ah. Content at last.

Now that you've posted some analysis of me, could you also tell us what you think of the rest of us? It's currently likely that one of the two of us will be lynched today. If you get lynched and end up being town, I would like to know what you thought about the other 4 people, as that would put us at LYLO tomorrow. If you're scum it probably doesn't matter as (assuming we're correct in thinking we only had 2 scum) if you get lynched the game will be over (probably).

I'm not going to go through and defend your post point-by-point as I think that's fairly useless at this stage, as most of it does seem OMGUSy to me and therefore difficult for me to pick out the ones that aren't (which I'm sure there are). If someone else (or Asmodieus) wants me to defend against any of these points I will, but even if we are definitely going to lynch him or me, we need to discuss each of the other 4 players before the end of this day so that if we miss-lynch today we will have stuff to talk about at LYLO tomorrow.

In order to facilitate that I'm going to

Unvote: Asmodieus

with the proviso that if no content about players other than myself is forthcoming, the vote will return.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Krong » Mon May 10, 2010 1:33 am UTC

Asmodieus, thanks for going through all those posts of Dr Ug's. It sounds, though, like you've reached many of the same conclusions the rest of us have, which doesn't really put us anywhere new. It also doesn't explain any of the suspicions we have on you.

Obviously it could go either way: If you're town, you've been unfairly accused, and are just trying to help the town and maybe clear your name by contributing to the discussion. If you're scum, you're taking suspicions we already had, working out a really long post on the most likely alternative lynch target, and avoiding answering the questions about you (I had more issues than just your lurking, if you recall.)

So... I think your post is the best summary we have of Dr Ug yet, but it doesn't convince me one way or another about him or you.

In the meantime, though, Dr Ug's made a couple of "I agree with Krong" posts that just seem odd to me. I suppose I kind of set myself up for that by running with one of his suspicions... but still. He seems to be linking himself to me -- if not to make me seem like I'm a scumbuddy, then to make his statements seem like he's following someone rather than leading things as he usually does.

Unvote. I need to think about this a bit.

Annd.... ninja'd by Dr Ug unvoting first. Hmm... I would think if he were scum that he'd keep the pressure up against the kind of content Asmodieus posted.

Err... right after I accuse him of following me, I'm going to follow him and suggest we look at the other players.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby hendusoone » Mon May 10, 2010 4:27 am UTC

Votal:
No votes.

4 votes to feed someone to a swamp monster on Dagobah lynch.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby willwithskills » Mon May 10, 2010 12:38 pm UTC

At this point, Dr. Ug is pretty much right. Unless someone makes a huge slip-up, he or asmodieus is going to be lynched. I am certainly in favor of asmodieus posting his opinions on every player, including Dr. Ug, but I'm wondering why Dr. Ug didn't volunteer to do that himself. He is also a self-proclaimed lynch target, so if we do end up lynching him we should have a list of his opinions on everyone in this game.

Basically, before I come to a decision on where to place my vote, I want opinions from both of you on every player in this game for future reference.
So it goes.

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Dr Ug » Mon May 10, 2010 1:20 pm UTC

The main reason I asked Asmodieus to list his opinions of other players was that his analysis of me was the only content we have from him, which wouldn't make for much analysis in the event he (or someone else other than me for that case) is lynched. I didn't offer to spell out my opinions on people because I thought I had been fairly open with my opinions. However, seeing as it has been requested, I shall do so. I would like everyone (including Will) to do the same, however seeing as if we mislynch today it is LYLO tomorrow. I am going to bed now, so my opinion-detailing will have to wait until tomorrow.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Krong » Mon May 10, 2010 10:58 pm UTC

Well, as for me, I've given my opinions of Dr Ug and Asmodieus in great detail, largely because I don't have much to go on for the others. Without diving into post-by-post detail, I'd generally put NaR/mpolo at neutral to townie, WWS at neutral, and CF/Darkname at unreadable, due to CF's lurking and Darkname's somewhat bold posting style.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Dr Ug » Tue May 11, 2010 3:42 am UTC

Ok. Here are my thoughts on remaining players as requested (I have left off myself for obvious reasons).

NaR mpolo:
Spoiler:
So NaR did a bit of role spec early, including a bit of speculation on non-sith scum ("crime syndicates, etc"), which I guess could be scum trying to water-muddy, but really not much there. He voted for BigNose for the "I'm a Noob" excuse, which was brought up by two people (Sungura and Weeks) before hand. Could be scum trying to start a wagon on a player that attention was already on. Then asked for replacement - who was mpolo who started on day 2. Did not post an Az-list (but then, he asked for a replacement at the start of day 2)

Mpolo did a reread then posted a list of his suspicions. Amy was at the top of the town list (but then she was on most peoples' town lists). Had weeks on scummy list (but again so did most of us). I'm also on the scummy list (but again, this is mostly agreement with the general consensus). The other two on the scummy list were lurkers active or passive, ie CF and asmodieus. CF has since been replaced and Asmodieus has made at least one post. I'm begining to think that As is not scum, and CF we'll get to below. As I know I'm not scum I'm a little suspicious of mpolo at this point.

Thought Sungura (btw at some point I'm going to slip and call her Amy, so for people who don't know sungura = amy) had a good reason for not suspecting BXM. Voted sungura after Weeks' cop claim.

Expresses concern about a lurker lynch for Asmodieus, doesn't vote, then puts out some analysis about the possible breakdown of numbers, raises the possibility of a Hutt faction (as suggested by VZ's death flavour).

Summary:
The lack of much content beyond role spec from NaR does make this difficult (but then 3 of the remaining 6 are replacements and 1 a lurker which makes this very difficult). He did agree with Amy a little and put her as most towny on his list. Was 4th (3rd if Krong's failure to unvote counts) vote on the Amy wagon. Hasn't posted a huge amount of content today but had a RL excuse. He is definitely still a suspect, far from confirmed town in my opinion. I would like to hear his opinion on all 5 other players before I vote today.
Willwithskills:
Spoiler:
Will started with some role spec, thought <3 scum with a recruit. Suggested possible SK but cult unlikely, due to game size + flavour.

Surprised at amount of voting early on day 1. Notes that 3 of the people with votes are lurking (CF, asmo and F_C), one overplaying newbishness (BigNose) and one for a discussion on FoS (which he thinks is silly) - weeks. Expresses nervousness at the speed of voting, but likes the discussion that it has triggered (which was my main reason for starting the early voting), and thinks a quick wagon is unlikely to start as a result.

Short break for RL reasons for the rest of D1. Didn't post an Az-list (most likely due to not being around).

Unsure how to read roles from the flavour text for deaths.

Thinks the 'wagon on BigNose is difficult to interpret because he really did look scummy and didn't defend himself well (which is true IMO). Unsure how to read my gameplay change. Thinks the "us" link between BXM and Weeks wasn't real (I guess we'll have to wait until the end of the game to know if they were masons together or not). Thinks weeks' cop claim would be a bad strategy if he was scum and thus believes him. Votes Amy (5th on wagon (4th if Krong's unvote was needed)), and the actual hammer, even if it wasn't when he posted it (BXM being daykill brought the number needed to lynch down by 1) I think this post is a very town leaning post.

Day 3, after my analysis of Amy implicating myself. Though I was more towny for doing this analysis honestly (seriously there is so much wine there it's difficult to interpret I know). Thinks numbers of jedi and sith are probably equal. Reminds us that Sith may still have a recruit.

Acknowledges possibility of LYLO today given that Hendu isn't going to tell us. Same as before, thinks there were probably only 2 sith so we're probably not at LYLO. Picks up my missing Asmodieus's RL lurking excuse. Is scared that he trusts Krong so much. Finds Darkname difficult to read (I think I will probably feel the same when I get to him, as I really don't remember a strong feeling either way on him).

Is quick to agree that the possible Lynch targets are Me or Asmo. I find this one a little suspicious as at this stage of the game everyone should be considered for the lynch. Asks me to do the analysis that I am currently doing.

Summary: I think Will is feeling more town than mpolo. I really think the post I linked to 4 paragraphs up is a very towny post. I'm a little suspicious of his last post, especially is Asmo turns out to be town (as well as me). At potential LYLO, being blinded by a disagreement between two players into only considering them is a bad move. Still, at this point I think he is more likely town than not.
Azrael001 Krong:
Spoiler:
Az played his portion of the game much like he always does. Short posts, sometimes contentful, sometimes not, always appearing slightly scummy. He started with a bit of role spec, including the possibility the scum started as 1 + a recruit. After I FoS'd BXM, he voted (probably to make the point that FoS's are useless), but this could potentially be scum trying to start a 'wagon on someone who already had focus and suspicion on them, but he points this potential tactic out two posts later so I think that is unlikely.

Apologises for the FoS discussion dragging out. Feels that BigNose is playing like Newb scum, but doesn't want to lynch new players Day 1. Given that BigNose was town, i think this feels quite towny. Unvotes and votes Asmo for lurking, second to vote after Weeks. Again could be scum trying to start a wagon, especially if Asmo is town.

Az was analysed by F_C at this point who thought he was fairly neutral to slightly scummy, and asked him why he voted BXM. Az responded to this by saying it was because of BXM's reasoning behind his first vote for Will (which was that will said no scum, and BXM thought scum was possible). Not much here.

Responded to BigNose suggesting an analysis on a towny was a scumtell, by explaining the reasoning behind such an analysis. Then he suggests everyone posting a list of the players in order of suspicion. In retrospect I'm uncertain how useful this is (as Amy's list is so full of wine I'm feeling a bit tipsy just thinking about it). I think it's unlikely a scum would suggest such a list, however, as information is information, and information is good for town. Posts an Az-list:
Azrael001 wrote:I really hate lynching new players day one, but it seems likely that in this case it is justified.

11. BigNose
10. Asmodieus
9. Brooklynxman
8. Flying_Cookie
7. Sungura
6. Weeks
5. Dr Ug
4. crucialityfactor
3. willwithskills
2. Not A Raptor
1. VectorZero

I'm not even going to wait for the points to be tallied.

Vote: Big Nose
Amy is actually up the scummy end, and from a meta point of view (as pointed out by VZ IIRC) she was mostly posting responses to other people's thoughts rather than de novo analysis as is her usual play style. Also had weeks and BXM up towards scum (again, so did most of us). Interestingly, the 2nd through to 5th spots are filled with players who are still alive, and the only person more scummy on his list is asmodieus, presumably for lurking. Makes it difficult to read much into this list. Votes BigNose for his town-fail.

Accidentally reads a spoiler after the BigNose-hammer and asks for a replacement - Krong. In semi-summary I think Az was appearing relatively towny, however from a metagaming point of view I think Az tends to be scum when he appears to be town and town when he appears scummy. Onto Krong:

Krong jumps in with a greeting then asks Hendu if he will tell us the roles of the dead (which he didn't - although they're now both listed as "citizen" in the OP, so perhaps he changed his mind?).

Doesn't like my new playstyle (or perhaps the fact that I stated that I was doing it?). Sees it as a convenient smokescreen. Compares it to stating random voting, an analogy which I can see but I'm not certain I agree with. I'm still deciding whether this playstyle works or not. Votes for me to "get my attention", as he thinks I've been ignoring certain evidence in order to push my agenda. The evidence was that BigNose had accused almost everybody and I picked Sungura as his "Good lynch target". Whilst I can see this possibility, the fact that Amy turned out to be scum I would have thought negates this point. As an aside the main reason I picked his (BigNose's) final "target" was that he claimed he had a good reason to suspect someone, then after refusing to state who, and after we had put pressure on him, he accused Amy. I though perhaps this was his method to reveal his suspicion without actually stating it. I think it unlikely he really had evidence now, especially as the OP now states his role as "citizen", and Weeks didn't get his cop result until after BigNose was lynched (N1), so potential mason relationship between them wouldn't explain his "lynch candidate", even though it might have explained his reluctance to tell us about it.

Back to krong... (sorry if that ramble makes this difficult to read)... he then continued to disagree with my interpretation of weeks/bxm, and suggests that the argument about it has dragged on too long (like the FoS discussion) and we need to move on. After Weeks' cop claim asks if his sanity is in question.

Points out that a failed lynch means LYLO the next day. Now, this is an interesting statement. At this point we were down to 10 players. If we assume 2 scum, and only 1 NK (which is all we had evidence of at that point), the next day we would be at 8 players. 2-6 is not LYLO (the day after with a mislynch is 2-4 which is LYLO), 3-5 on the other hand is LYLO, and makes me suspicious that krong had knowledge about the number of scum that the rest of us were missing. Krong: can you explain why you said we would be at LYLO if we had mislynched D2?

Votes Amy, forgets to unvote first and corrects this for either the 3rd or 5th vote depending on which one you count.

Interprets N2 activities to say that we don;t have a doctor, we probably have a Hutt / bounty hunter faction and that [obviously] there is a Sith master around. Suggests that if Sith had a recruit, perhaps it was limited to Jedi. This would certainly make sense from a flavour point of view, but in the light of the (possible) slip above, maybe trying to cover for that?

Expresses concern (after I did the same) about the lurking occuring. Retracts some of his suspicion on me, partly because of my analysis of Amy and partly because I'm being active.

Jumps back on to an FoS on me after Darkname's Vote, for me trying to lead a bandwagon on the two Jedi (as has been pointed all well and good to make this point in hindsight). Thinks we shouldn't let day drag on due to fear of another daykill. Whilst this fear may be well founded, any remotely active scum would be able to make use of their power before the hammer, (and the chance of >1 private daykill for scum + night kill in a game this small is pretty low IMO). I'm a little concerned at the idea of rushing a day.

Tries to see if BXM breadcrumbed a cop result, but can't find much other than a (very subtle if a true breadcrumb) bit about me being town. I really think this is reading a bit much into the BXM posts.

Thinks the discussion about my scumminess is getting nowhere and we need to change topic - so he analyses Asmo: Thinks he is lurky, but scummy from the content that is there, and a bit contradictory, especially in this post (which I agree with), and votes for him. It was a fairly indepth analysis, so in and of itself fairly towny, but I can't shake this nagging suspicion...

Then a post about there probably being 2 Sith. Again this seems a bit contradictory with his post about possible LYLO on day 3 if a mislynch occured day 2. Asks for the OP to be updated with roles - which ended up being helpful in that we have now confirmed that D1/N1 deaths were both "citizen" (ie likely vanilla town).

Points out Amso's mistake when he said I said he lied about having an AP test. Asks for reasoning behind Asmo's finding me scummy, which he then does.

Thanks Asmo for posting content, notes conclusion is basically the same as ppl already thought (ie that I seem a bit scummy), but not enough to convince him that I am scum. Feels that I've made a few "I agree with Krong" statements, (one of which I've noticed on my rereading today). I must say this was not conscious, but just made when you wrote an analysis and I did in fact agree with your conclusions. Unvotes Asmo and is ninja'd by me (or so he claims). It was 11 minutes after I posted my unvote so definitely believable that it was a ninja, and quite a good ploy if he is scum and responded to my unvote. I think he really was ninja'd, and this makes me think he probably is town, as I agree that the town is being distracted by the argument between Asmo and myself.

When asked to give opinions of everybody gives a short post where he doesn't add much on the others (ie Will, mpolo and Darkname). I'd like a bit more in depth opinions.

Summary:I really don't like the suggestion that we would (not might be - would) be at LYLO on D3 if we mislynched D2, as we don't know how many scum there are. It could be a slip from a scum who knew there were 3 scum. However, the rest of his posting makes him seem towny. Az before him also appeared towny, but again Az appears towny when he is scum. Still definitely on my suspicious list, probably less suspicious than mpolo though.
Asmodieus:
Spoiler:
Asmodieus didn't give any role spec, instead posted a link to a video. I called him on this active lurking and he disputed this (despite then continuing to active lurk). Didn't think either I or BXM were scummy for our early votes. Gives his gameplay history pointing that he always lurks games.

Thought F_C was a bit scummy for perhaps padding out an analysis with not much conclusion. Thought weeks was a bit scummy for [active lurking], OMGUS reasons and trying to shift attention off himself and onto VZ/BigNose.

Clarified that he didn't mean "too long to read" [regarding F_C's analysis], but just trying "to create the illusion of a post that had alot to contribute". Agrees with BigNose's [incorrect] opinion that an anaysis of a probably townie is useless and thus scummy. 3 joke posts during night (perhaps to give the illusion of boredom due to not being able to PM?).

Day 2: Thinks FC was lynched due to his being likely to post analysis. Seems a bit of a stretch to me as we have several players in the game that post analysis regularly. Then tries to think like the scum and see why others weren't lynched. Thinks CF and he wouldn't be considered due to lurking; thinks I wasn't NK'd for the same reason he thinks FC was NK'd (this is the post where I suggested he was trying to create a link between me and him); thinks krong wasn't NK'd because he was a replacement; thinks Amy wasn't a real threat to scum. This is a bit of a contradictory post. FC was lynched because of analysis, but I wasn't because of analysis. He also plays down Amy's analysing (which is very much her playstyle, although as a relative newbie he could be forgiven for not knowing that).

No posts for ~ a fortnight after this, including end D2 and begining D3, then posts is RL excuse (which I missed earlier). Thinks darknames reasoning behind a vote for me was flimsy. Says that I pushed for Weeks and BXM to be lynched before N1 - this is incorrect - it was actually at the beginning of D2. He uses this to suggest that I wouldn't have had time to use a potential scum-rolecop on them to know they were Jedi. This could be another attempt to link the two of us, however at this point (if there are only 2 scum) there's not much point in doing that as if he was lynched as scum presumably the game would be over (unlike when he did it earlier on D2 before Amy was lynched). Despite this, he says he still thinks I'm more likely scum than town, and that my Amy analysis pointing out the link between us is WIFOM (as I have agreed many times, including in the original post). As for suggesting my activity is scummy, you need to read more games that I am in. I am always this active.

Next was a place holder for some analysis (basically a don't lynch me before I can post it post), although some people (myself included) misinterpreted it. Thinks I may be a Hutt then changes his mind due to my "near-vanilla" claim on D1 (which I still stick with).

Then finally is a very long and in depth analysis on me. Points out that it may be interpretted as OMGUS, which is possible, but as with any analysis (including my analysis of this post), we have to remember that it is definitely influenced by OMGUS at the least. Points out the placeholderness of this previous post. Asks how he could have been creating a link between him and me (see 2 paragraphs and 3 paragraphs up (mainly 3 paragraphs up)).

He didn't like my early D1 claim of a minor, near-vanilla role. My main reason for claiming this at that point was to aid with role spec. He also (falsely) claims that the game is filled with Sith and Vanilla town only, despite us having had 1 dead smuggler and 2 dead Jedi. Not sure what his point there was... (unless he was saying we should have assumed this? That is exactly why I was pointing this out - so that we didn't incorrectly assume that). Questions why I voted BXM for voting the same way I did. The reason was I voted with not much reason (but still some justification) to generate discussion. Why then did BXM do the same thing almost immediately after? It had already been done, and if it was to generate discussion, said discussion should have been generated by mine, thus removing the reason for him to vote, unless my vote randomly happened to be on a scumbuddy (which we now know was not the case). Agrees with the general consensus that my "playstyle change" is suspicious. Finds my next 3-4 posts or so towny. Agrees with my analysis that the argument between Amy and myself could be scum distancing / then backing up later on. He summarises my scumminess being: my erratic voting (I can't really say much here), my early role-claim (see above for my reasoning), the link/distancing/analysis re: Amy and me (There is a lot of wine here, I know) and Weeks statement of possible evidence of Amy and I being scumbuddies.

Summary: I really would like to hear his opinion (in as much detail as his analysis on me if at all possible), as he really hasn't said much about the other still-living players. As for whether he is scum, he is still a definite possibility, I am gradually shifting my view that he is a newbie town rather than a scum as a lot of my reasoning behind thinking he is scum would involve quite complex strategy, and thus (I hope) unlikely to be coming from a newbie. There are definitely some contradictions in his posting, but I think this may just be honest mistakes. Still, we definitely need to hear more.
crucialityfactor darkname:
Spoiler:
Crucialityfactor really didn't contribute much. Only posted in the first 4 RL days of the game, and all were basically one liners with zero content. The only remote content was a suggestion that Asmo was lying about being inexperienced (Asmo then listed the games he'd played - which was only really 1 beyond D1).

Darkname has not been much better (although he has only been playing for ~10 RL days). A post to volunteer to replace, then 3 "I'm still reading" posts. Votes for me for trying to get the Jedi's lynched. Says it's only a preliminary vote.

The next post is a bit strange:
Darkname wrote:Well, Dr Ug , Me , and the lurker are probaly the only people i would call any kind of scummy right now and since The lurker is well lurking! Its just Me and Dr Ug that will have any kind of response to get this started on and with an early vote this might bring out the scummyniess in some one still alive, Instead of us all just over analyzeing already looked at post's. Besides i hope i dont start a bandwagon with one vote so Dr Ug is safe from the Feeding to a rancor Lynching!

:D
Darkname wrote:EBWOP: Also if i die in the night it will no doubt make Dr Ug look very bad!
Noone had really accused him of anything except replacing an inactive lurker (who had gone inactive in multiple games). It's strange that he listed himself as scummy. Says his vote on me is a discussion vote (on day 3???) and that if he gets NK'd it would make me look scummy. I'm not quite sure on his logic there...

His final post was basically "I'm going to wait for some other people to analyse then bandwagon whoever appears scummy".

We really don't have any where near enough info on darkname. He really needs to post more content. Preferably a detailed analysis of each of the other 5 players.
So that's my opinion on everybody.

TL;DR Summary:

I think darkname is our worst lurker. He very much needs to post some analysis of all the other 5 players so we have something to work off. If he doesn't do this, we may need to lynch him on the hope that today is not LYLO and that we'll get a chance to decide from a group of players with content tomorrow.

I think Will is my most towny seeming person at the moment, with the other three all relatively equally possible scum. If I had to put them in order, it would be:

Most scummy
mpolo
Asmodieus
Krong
Most Towny

but I do find this ordering difficult.

I think it would be good to have detailed opinions (read actual analysis rather than just a 5-line post stating opinions on player) from everyone about each of the other 5 players. In the meantime, I will

Vote: darkname

as if he is still around tomorrow (almost certain LYLO if we miss scum today), there is no way we'll be able to tell if he's scum, unless he starts posting a large quantity of real content.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Dr Ug » Tue May 11, 2010 4:10 am UTC

EBWOP: Man, I think that's the longest post I've made so far... > 4000 words... Sorry for those who have to read it...
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Krong » Tue May 11, 2010 4:37 am UTC

Dr Ug wrote:Points out that a failed lynch means LYLO the next day. Now, this is an interesting statement. At this point we were down to 10 players. If we assume 2 scum, and only 1 NK (which is all we had evidence of at that point), the next day we would be at 8 players. 2-6 is not LYLO (the day after with a mislynch is 2-4 which is LYLO), 3-5 on the other hand is LYLO, and makes me suspicious that krong had knowledge about the number of scum that the rest of us were missing.

Hmm. Well, there's no way around that looking suspicious, and I'll definitely admit it was a mistake. Without specific memory of what I was thinking at that time, the only explanations I really can come up with are the following:

1. Weeks had made a post two above mine that probably got me thinking in terms of 3 scum:
Weeks wrote:That would leave us with another scum or anti-town player to defeat (assuming 3 anti-town).

At that point, I was pretty eager to follow a cop result of scum, so I might have been agreeing too much with Weeks.

2. In meta-game terms, Weeks and I had just started Mythology Mafia, and we had 3 scum players for a 12 player game; after a bit of research, that had seemed to be the most common setup.

I'll also respond to the point about your playstyle, since it seems like my earlier posts could use a bit more explanation.

My general feeling about it isn't that I have a problem with you having an aggressive playstyle, but that you were making some errors of judgment in your aggression and the "I'm playing differently this time" seemed a bit like excuse-making. If you said "I'm going to try something new this game" before roles were out, I'd tend to believe you more, but not once the game had started. I have no way to verify if you're actually experimenting this game, or if you're trying to cast scummy actions as experimental.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby mpolo » Tue May 11, 2010 10:23 am UTC

Hmm. Dr Ug rates me as "most scummy". I'm actually "most in the dark", it seems, in this game. I will try to put together the desired ranking of the remaining players. Fortunately, there aren't that many pages to reread.

Order on the Sungura bandwagon doesn't really mean much, because it was essentially a lightning lynch -- only time zones and personal schedules really determined the order there, I believe.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby willwithskills » Tue May 11, 2010 1:13 pm UTC

It's kind of hard to follow up an analysis post as thorough and huge as Dr. Ug's but I will try. I'll start with the two most likely to be lynched today, which are Dr. Ug and darkname.

Dr. Ug
Spoiler:
Starts with idle role speculation, not a whole lot to see there. Once we are told characters are non-canon, he says he is extremely sure that there are two Sith, with a recruit if one dies. Why is he so sure of this? Of course, A real Sith probably wouldn't go so out of his way to reveal information about himself, so leans towards townie instead. Next he says his role is in a speculated list, which I think is quite suspicious. There aren't many Sith-y roles in the list, but it's vague enough to make him seem more townie. Could be a ploy. Votes for BigNose for "misleading the town," but later unvotes due to inexperience.

He then FoS's BXM, which I find incredibly strange due to his policy of keeping a vote down. Claims to always find BXM suspicious, but then later votes for him anyway for active lurking. Soon flip-flops away from BXM and onto Weeks, our other Jedi. Next he votes for CF for extreme lurkage. Note how he has posted a new vote every single post, going all over the place with his suspicion. You get the idea that he's trying to put the heat on anyone else, anyone but him. Also, the reasons he has voted are fairly minuscule.

He posts about his support for the idea of everyone posting a list of their suspicion, and says not to rank yourself. Pretty obvious stuff. Changes his vote yet again to BigNose for withholding information, another fairly benign offense. Posts a long analysis on BigNose to explain his suspicions rationally. His list of who seems scummy, includes Weeks, BXM, and BigNose, all who have been revealed to be townie. Of course, pretty much all of us thought they were at least a little scummy at the time. He also had Sungura at the townie end, but could once again be a coincidence.

New day. Accuses Weeks and BXM for hammering BigNose before lists got out, even though he could've unvoted BigNose and waited until all lists are out to revote. Seems like he wanted BigNose lynched quickly, but in a way that would allow him to blame people later to seem townie. Posts another suspicion list, with one noticeable change. He moved Sungura from townie to neutral, possibly to separate himself from her before it was too late. Note that, even with a fairly reliable cop claim, he chooses not to vote for Sungura.

New day. Tries to remedy lack of posting with long analysis. A scum would probably let the game smolder, so this is good. Still as mentioned, the post is filled with wine about him voting for the Jedi and connection with Sungura. Tries to coax more posting out of asmodieus and darkname. Wants to get rid of asmodieus for his long history of lurkage. I think lynching anyone for lurking this late in the game is a bad idea, other leads should be explored first. Seems like he wants to rush a lynch. Continues on to unvote asmodieus, possibly realizing the lynch had no steam. Posts a HUGE analysis of every player left, lots of effort put in. Good read, certainly helps the town.

Summary: There are plenty of reasons to find Dr. Ug scummy, mostly through his scattershot voting and attempts to turn possible mistakes into wine. I probably find him the most suspicious right now.

Other players have already had analysis, so I will just post my own opinions on them:

Darkname: A conundrum. Everything about him makes me want to scream scum, but I just can't. His posts are slapped together and all over the place. It could all just be a clever ploy to seem so suspicious, it folds back on itself and becomes normal. To be honest, I might find him the most likely to be townie.

Krong: I've elaborated on him already, how scared I am that I trust him as much as I do.

asmodieus: The most lurky in the game, as has been mentioned, which certainly works against him. Needs far more content but does have an IRL excuse for lack of posting. Definitely leans towards scummy, but can't decide until he posts more.

mpolo: I have no read on mpolo, to be honest. I have gut feelings on every player in this game except him, and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because most of his posts have been extremely safe with no real suspicions cast.

Basically, if I had to vote for someone right now it would be Dr. Ug, but more people should post their opinions, especially asmodieus, until I come to a strong decision. Who knows, maybe I missed something important.
So it goes.

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Darkname » Tue May 11, 2010 2:30 pm UTC

Well its time for my defense on this thing!

Dr Ug wrote:Darkname has not been much better (although he has only been playing for ~10 RL days). A post to volunteer to replace, then 3 "I'm still reading" posts. Votes for me for trying to get the Jedi's lynched. Says it's only a preliminary vote.

The next post is a bit strange:
Darkname wrote:Well, Dr Ug , Me , and the lurker are probaly the only people i would call any kind of scummy right now and since The lurker is well lurking! Its just Me and Dr Ug that will have any kind of response to get this started on and with an early vote this might bring out the scummyniess in some one still alive, Instead of us all just over analyzeing already looked at post's. Besides i hope i dont start a bandwagon with one vote so Dr Ug is safe from the Feeding to a rancor Lynching!

:D
Darkname wrote:EBWOP: Also if i die in the night it will no doubt make Dr Ug look very bad!
Noone had really accused him of anything except replacing an inactive lurker (who had gone inactive in multiple games). It's strange that he listed himself as scummy. Says his vote on me is a discussion vote (on day 3???) and that if he gets NK'd it would make me look scummy. I'm not quite sure on his logic there...

His final post was basically "I'm going to wait for some other people to analyse then bandwagon whoever appears scummy".

We really don't have any where near enough info on darkname. He really needs to post more content. Preferably a detailed analysis of each of the other 5 players.[/spoiler]So that's my opinion on everybody.[quote]

Ok i have many points to make in the the defense and a minor scummy reason with the vote on me...

I only said Darkname,Dr Ug, and Asmodieus look scummy because up to my post- CF was a lurker and since i took over his role i might have adopted some of his lurker scummyness- Asmodieus has been lurking-and you have had some posts saying you were scummy and both innocent so this can go so many which ways!

I thought the part of me saying if i get NK you would look scummy would be much clearer to everyone in a small sense because i was pushing for you to be lynched and then i "Disappear" in the night that wouldnt make anyone Say Something?

But i agree with willwithskills we should not be looking to lynch any lurkers right now as we to low on people for a rushed decision.

So i think now we only have two people that seem scummy Me And Dr Ug, And as from earlier if i get lynched that would be very good for Dr Ug if he was scum as i have (or i like to think) started the push on him and a lynch would be better than a NK for any scum really.

Thats my slapped up 2cents
BLARG!!

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Darkname » Tue May 11, 2010 2:32 pm UTC

EBWOP: wow fail quote code

Ok ignore the werid things and try and make sense of that stuff!
BLARG!!

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Asmodieus » Tue May 11, 2010 8:38 pm UTC

Alright, so heres what I think about everyone else here.

Darkname: I mentioned that his vote for Dr. Ug was a bit strange, but I think (from his tone of posting) that he was just trying to contribute to the thread. My gut feeling is that he's harmless. The problem of course is that since Cruciality Factor hasnt posted in this game, there is no way of getting any useful information about what Darknames role could be.

Krong: Krong has been posty, and he to contributes to the thread, so he's leaning towards towny for me.

mpolo: Y'know, he seemed pretty towny to me, but re reading his posts I see that most of them are posting confirmations of someone elses opinion or a minor speculation. He could be trying to just slip under the radar by playing it safe. But, he says he has a lot of stuff going on in his life, so its more than likely that his posting pattern is more of an issue of not having enough time than him trying to avoid suspicion. So both things cancel out and he's neutral to me.

Willwithskills:When he does post, they are thorough and well thought out posts. So he seems leans towards town for me.


At this point, the people who are sort of suspicious to me (apart from Ug) are mpolo and Darkname.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Dr Ug » Wed May 12, 2010 3:18 am UTC

Darkname wrote:
Spoiler:
Well its time for my defense on this thing!

Dr Ug wrote:Darkname has not been much better (although he has only been playing for ~10 RL days). A post to volunteer to replace, then 3 "I'm still reading" posts. Votes for me for trying to get the Jedi's lynched. Says it's only a preliminary vote.

The next post is a bit strange:
Darkname wrote:Well, Dr Ug , Me , and the lurker are probaly the only people i would call any kind of scummy right now and since The lurker is well lurking! Its just Me and Dr Ug that will have any kind of response to get this started on and with an early vote this might bring out the scummyniess in some one still alive, Instead of us all just over analyzeing already looked at post's. Besides i hope i dont start a bandwagon with one vote so Dr Ug is safe from the Feeding to a rancor Lynching!

:D
Darkname wrote:EBWOP: Also if i die in the night it will no doubt make Dr Ug look very bad!
Noone had really accused him of anything except replacing an inactive lurker (who had gone inactive in multiple games). It's strange that he listed himself as scummy. Says his vote on me is a discussion vote (on day 3???) and that if he gets NK'd it would make me look scummy. I'm not quite sure on his logic there...

His final post was basically "I'm going to wait for some other people to analyse then bandwagon whoever appears scummy".

We really don't have any where near enough info on darkname. He really needs to post more content. Preferably a detailed analysis of each of the other 5 players.
So that's my opinion on everybody.

Ok i have many points to make in the the defense and a minor scummy reason with the vote on me...

I only said Darkname,Dr Ug, and Asmodieus look scummy because up to my post- CF was a lurker and since i took over his role i might have adopted some of his lurker scummyness- Asmodieus has been lurking-and you have had some posts saying you were scummy and both innocent so this can go so many which ways!

I thought the part of me saying if i get NK you would look scummy would be much clearer to everyone in a small sense because i was pushing for you to be lynched and then i "Disappear" in the night that wouldnt make anyone Say Something?

But i agree with willwithskills we should not be looking to lynch any lurkers right now as we to low on people for a rushed decision.

So i think now we only have two people that seem scummy Me And Dr Ug, And as from earlier if i get lynched that would be very good for Dr Ug if he was scum as i have (or i like to think) started the push on him and a lynch would be better than a NK for any scum really.

Thats my slapped up 2cents[/spoiler]


More please. You will recall the request is for your opinion on the other four players, not just me. It is not hard for you to just agree with the general consensus about me and say that I look scummy, if you are scum. If you get lynched today and are town, we need to know your opinion on other people. If I'm lynched today, I am town, so the fact that you thought I was scummy really doesn't help us find out if you are scum (as everybody thinks I'm scummy).

You need to catch up content wise because of CF's lurking, but please, please, please try and post some more content.

As for being against a lurker lynching today, I would also prefer to avoid that. The only way to really avoid it is by darkname not being a lurker anymore (and he does seem to be at least working towards that). However, if he does remain lurky (and only posts his opinion on me), and I get lynched, we will be at definite LYLO tomorrow. You will then have to choose between 4 people, one of whom will have no content to analyse, to pick one scum. He is not going to get NK'd (either because he is scum, or because he is a lurker and thus easy as a potential lynch target tomorrow). I would prefer to lynch a lurker at non-LYLO than LYLO, but given we don't know if it is LYLO today, a lurker lynch is not a great idea today.

Still, my vote stays on darkname at least until he gives us his opinion on each of the other four players, with a lot of evidence behind his opinion for each of them (ie an analysis of each of the other four players).
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Krong » Wed May 12, 2010 4:57 am UTC

I think one of the big problems in this game at this point isn't so much the lurking as the fact that so many people have been so safe with their opinions. Reading through willwithskills' posts, for instance, I don't really see anywhere where he said, "I think X is scum, and I'm voting unless I hear a good defense." Not to single him out, really, since there's a lot of that going on, but posting the same opinion as everyone else doesn't reveal that much.

It's made worse by the fact that both votes we had were such overwhelming bandwagons, so we can't even get much information from the ways people voted. (Well, maybe if we include intermediate votes... this might be a good next step for analysis.)

I was asked to go into a bit more detail on my feelings about each player, but the nonsense over at HP Mafia is kind of sapping my Mafia time/energy. At this point I'll just post a suspicious list:

Most townie to least townie

1. Darkname
Kind of an odd choice, yes, and it needs to be validated with more posting. However, he seems to be pretty focused on Dr Ug and not his own survival, bringing up getting lynched or nightkilled multiple times, and accusing Dr Ug repeatedly. This seems to me to indicate more of a newbie townie than anything... Darkname, how many games have you played on here?

2. mpolo
At this point, more based on NaR's posting than anything else. He's kind of up in this spot because it was the one I had left. There is one odd thing, which I point out below.
Default, default, default

3. Dr Ug
Discussed before ad nauseum. It's a bunch of little things about him at this point, but I think his continued insistence on getting lots of information out is quite townie, so he's moved up a spot in my list.

4. willwithskills
I'm not sure why everyone's so happy to lump him in as townie, exactly. All his posts are thoughtful and well-reasoned, but a scum player can write good posts, too. I feel like his posts are so well respected because there aren't very strong opinions present in them, but there's a lot we can all agree with. He also keeps saying he's scared that he trusts me so much, which is kind of an odd way of putting it. Maybe he can trust me less now that I'm suspicious of him :P

5. Asmodieus
Reasons given in detail before, and not mainly about lurking. He kept claiming nothing was going on when some things were, he contradicted himself as to whether he thought FC's posts were useful, and he made what I consider to be a quite odd suspicion thoughts post on D2.

One more thing which I found kind of interesting from NaR on Day 1:
NotARaptor wrote:Not that there's anything wrong with speculation. It's just that I think we should keep it in mind that none of it except that which may pretain to one's own role is confirmed until somebody is either dead or investigated.

Here is a hypothetical situation in which this is important: Two inexperienced players are masons with each other, and link themselves in the game too much. The rest of the game takes it for granted that there are only two people in the mafia. The mafia actively encourages this error, and suggests that that the inexperienced players could be scum. That leaves the masons with an awful situation. Either they claim and are exterminated by the mafia (assuming no intervention from doctors or roleblockers), or they hope that the evidence is insufficient to convince the town to lynch them and they remain difficult to trust through the remainder of the game.

Assume nothing until we get something concrete. (I'm not exactly sure who I'm speaking to, or if I'm speaking to anybody in particular at all.)

Interesting how dead on that hypothetical was. Possibly a bit suspicious, too, if you want to drink some wine.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby willwithskills » Wed May 12, 2010 7:33 am UTC

Krong wrote:Reading through willwithskills' posts, for instance, I don't really see anywhere where he said, "I think X is scum, and I'm voting unless I hear a good defense." Not to single him out, really, since there's a lot of that going on, but posting the same opinion as everyone else doesn't reveal that much.
...
4. willwithskills
I'm not sure why everyone's so happy to lump him in as townie, exactly. All his posts are thoughtful and well-reasoned, but a scum player can write good posts, too. I feel like his posts are so well respected because there aren't very strong opinions present in them, but there's a lot we can all agree with. He also keeps saying he's scared that he trusts me so much, which is kind of an odd way of putting it. Maybe he can trust me less now that I'm suspicious of him :P


Heh, I still trust you pretty well even after accusing me. Probably at the top of my townie list at least. You do make a very good point though. This game does suffer from a lack of strong opinions, and of course I contribute to this more than I really should. It's just that I want to make absolutely sure I make the right decision about who to lynch, and jumping to conclusions could doom the town. But yes, I think I have honestly collected enough evidence at this point to vote. If everyone read through my analysis of Dr. Ug, I picked up quite a few things to add to all the reasons to find Dr. Ug suspicious. While all the points individually are fairly small, I think they fit together to become something large. After all, Dr. Ug is a good player and would never drop a huge tell, but has dropped enough small ones to make me wary. All of this, combined with his eclectic voting on Day 1 and 2, makes me believe that this vote is completely justified and should spark some discussion.

Vote: Dr. Ug

Also, about mpolo. I got the same feeling Krong did about me, except more so. His posts have been even more safe and opinion free, as well as often very short. He needs to get more content and real opinions through, or he will be under scrutiny tomorrow.
So it goes.

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby mpolo » Wed May 12, 2010 10:33 am UTC

O.K. I've been mostly following because I am vanilla and vanilla means "not a lot of info" and "easily swayed". I am now attempting a full reread.

First page

Spoiler:
Lots of confirms.
A rule clarification.
Role speculation.

Dr Ug says his role is on F_C's list of generic roles, Weeks agrees.
BigNose assumes this means that they are claiming just Galaxy Citizens.


Analysis: In retrospect, BigNose kind of gave away that he knew for a fact there were Galaxy Citizens on account of being one.

Second page

Spoiler:
Dr Ug clarifies that he is claiming a role from the list that can be correlated with a canon character --> this is now somewhat significant, as several are dead
BigNose attacks this statement, saying that the very assumption that Dr Ug and Weeks might be different roles is scummy.
Some vote-play between Dr Ug, BigNose, will, and Brook.
Azrael votes Bxm for his attack on Will (because will was excluding cult)
begins crusade against FoS
will defends idea of a cult, but concedes that it is unlikely from canon, unless Sith can recruit.
Asmodieus checks in (no content)
Dr Ug asks Asmodieus for speculation about players, but he refuses to commit due to newbieness.
CF and VectorZero post oneliners
Weeks votes Asmodieus for lurkiness
Sungura finally checks in -- without content
movie talk.
BigNose with his "i'm a noob"


Analysis - page 2:
We know that Dr Ug is not Jedi Master/Apprentice, Sith Apprentice, or Smuggler and he basically ruled out "Galactic Citizen" --> he is essentially claiming Bounty Hunter, Sith Lord, Senator, or some sort of droid at this point. --> Perhaps he was the Hutts' Bounty Hunter, who killed VectorZero N2.

Asmodieus' lurkiness began way back here.

Page 3:
Spoiler:
BigNose points out Dr Ug's ambivalent nature.
Sungura: Tries to help BigNose get into the game.
Not A Raptor: calls for a hiatus on role-speculation, mentions the mason-bating technique that got highlighted a while back
Weeks: says he used BigNose's techniques in his first game as scum
Not A Raptor starts the bandwagon on BigNose
Dr Ug votes Weeks about a misunderstanding on FoS's
Az goes for the lurker vote: Asmodieus
VectorZero votes F_C for quietness
F_C promises analysis
Brook calls Weeks the only valid lynch candidate (apparently distancing himself from his Jedi buddy)
BigNose points out CF's heavy lurking and votes.
will posts a mini-analysis
F_C's promised analysis comes, looking at Az. Conclusion: mostly neutral
VZ unvotes F_C
Asmodieus finds Weeks a bit scummy because of jokey-accusals, finds F_Cs analysis a bit long, possibly trying to hide a lack of content
Weeks unvotes Asmodieus as a reward for coming back to the table
F_C calls for grounding our statements about lurkiness
Dr Ug unvotes Weeks, votes lurky-loo CF
F_C defends analysis
BigNose attacks analysing someone you were neutral to
VZ votes Weeks because of a poorly worded line (VZ and Dr Ug, which I have cast suspicion upon)
Weeks sees BigNose as acting weird, defends his stance on the FoS debate.


Analysis: All that, and I'm still on Day One. The ultimate lynch of BigNose started here, but hadn't picked up any steam at all.

I will try to do a couple more days later this afternoon, hopefully getting to a conclusion at the end.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Dr Ug » Wed May 12, 2010 12:04 pm UTC

I think we should not end day until mpolo finishes his analysi,s so I would ask that we hold off on voting any further (as I am currently L-3 and there are potentially 2 scum out there who - if there are 2 scum - could potentially speed hammer for the win). I want to hear everybody's complete opinion before the end of day (and a single more vote on me could potentially end day and the game for town).
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby willwithskills » Wed May 12, 2010 12:22 pm UTC

I'll just take off my vote until then.

Unvote: Dr. Ug
So it goes.

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby mpolo » Wed May 12, 2010 2:52 pm UTC

PART TWO (Just watch, George Lucas will come and change it to part V, I'm sure)

Page 4

Spoiler:
Asmodieus continues to lurk -- says yes, it was pointless for F_C to do his analysis.
Azrael says that this was in fact useful, and suggests that everyone rank everyone else.
Dr Ug agrees to try this, as does weeks. Sungura says not to worry about timing.
BigNose doesn't want to share, and the wagon starts a-rollin'. Dr Ug is in spot 2.
Sungura (scum) jumps onto the wagon.
VZ points out that BN says he has a scum candidate that he's not voting.
BN (in retrospect, correctly) points out that Sungura is pushing the bandwagon.
VZ points out that sharing is better.
BN points to his large amount of content.
Weeks is the first with a list. She has F_C (town) as a townie, Asmodieus, CF and BigNose (town) as scum. She was neutral on Sungura (scum) and BXM (Jedi buddy).
Dr Ug warns BN of the dangers of bandwagons.
VZ (indie) joins the wagon.
F_C wagons.
Az posts list and joins the wagon. His scum end has Asmodieus, BXM (Jedi), F_C (town), Sungura (Sith). #1 townie is VZ (indie). Broken scumdar...
F_C posts list. Has mostly lurkers on her scum end, except wws and BXM (Jedi). The Sith Apprentice is #1 townie. Broken scumdar...
Weeks joins the wagon.
Sungura posts her list. Her scum are BXM (jedi), Asmodieus, willwithskills, Weeks (Jedi). #1 townie is VZ (indie). From a scum point of view, pretty good picking out of the Jedi. Now, where did she stick her buddy?
Dr Ug posts list. He's got the lurkers, then Weeks(Jedi), BXM (Jedi), townies are Az, Sungura (scum) and F_C(town). Not so good at scum detection. But no one seems to be.
VZ posts list. He finds Jedi Weeks even scummier than BigNose, then Asmo, Dr Ug, BXM (also Jedi). Townie F_C (town), Az, NaR (me). He has done a better job of picking out vanilla town, but if he were president, we'd have lynched all our Jedi.
Az requests replacement.
BXM votes BN. Sees his partner as slightly scummy, and the Sith Apprentice as townie. Broken scumdar.
LYNCH
Krong replaces Az
Nighttime fun and games


That was the big bandwagon day. Basically all of the submitted suspicion lists were shown to be egregiously wrong. (I'm sure that when I get to my list, I'll find the same.) BigNose was the only person who publicly suspected the Sith Apprentice. (As a newbie, he didn't know that Amy is always town. Except that she wasn't.)

Day 5
Spoiler:
BigNose is shown to be vanilla town. Sith exterminates Flying_Cookie, also vanilla.
Dr Ug points fingers at speed-lynchers, voting the Jedi and FoSing the Apprentice.
flavor analysis
Weeks thought he wasn't hammering.
Sungura opines that the victims were vanilla. Plans new analysis. Doesn't like Dr Ug's vote.
Dr Ug says that when someone he pegged as scummy acts scummy, he votes. New list comes: Both Jedi are scum, together with CF (lurker), Krong is his only surviving townie. Announces the new play style.
Krong doesn't like this announcement.
Sungura defends Week's hammer.
BXM also miscounted the votes.
Dr Ug fears that the hammerers were trying to silence BN's scum revelation.
Sungura agrees that the hammer was quick, doesn't see Weeks as scum.
She also says that BigNose should have reacted faster.
Dr Ug pushes BXM as alternative to Weeks.
Sungura says that she is suspicious, but not because of his vote.
VZ wonders if Dr Ug is a Galactic Senator. Is undecided.
Krong votes Dr Ug, fears that he is pushing on Sungura.
Dr Ug says that he is always pushy. (Just testing whether you're reading this)
I join the game. Admit I would have voted in the bandwagon. I think that there is no real collusion in the rapid end. (In re-reading, there is also the fact that NaR's (my) vote was so early that it might have been overlooked.)


Day two begins. A few votes come around. Everybody still mistrusts the Jedi.

Page 6
Spoiler:
Weeks says that Dr Ug is paranoid. Stresses that hammer was a mistake. Says that Dr Ug's way of leading the town this time is more frantic than usual.
Krong feels that the Mafia probably wasn't so concerned about BigNose (accusations all over the board), so hammer is less meaningful, unless it is.
I post my list: In the town I have the Sith, Krong and F_C (like Dr Ug I included him after his death -- weird), my scum are lurkers, Dr Ug and Weeks (Jedi).
Asmodieus finally posts content. FC was killed to prevent analysis (as he was going alphabetically, this would point at CF). His scum Dr Ug and the two Jedi
Dr Ug notes that those who find him scummy use the same reason on weeks.
BXM tries to explain his position, slips an "us" to refer to him and Weeks, sealing the fate of the Jedi.
This leads Sungura to start an attack on BXM.
BXM tries to distance himself from Weeks.
Krong wants to move on to something else.
Weeks comes back with cop result. (Tries to distance from BXM.)
Bandwagon ensues.
Will slips in with the statement that Dr Ug is acting strangely, thinks the "us" slip from BXM is innocent.
Sungura points out that Weeks waited on his reveal. Writes in big bold letters that her Sith buddy should kill BXM. Groups herself with Dr Ug. (Calls Weeks stupid for grouping himself with BXM -- wine much?)
BXM is daykilled by the Sith, this effectively hammers Sungura.
Darkname replaces CF


As CF was AWOL for the whole day, Darkname may well be town. (My assumption here is that the Master has a daykill, not the Apprentice.)
As Dr Ug will point out later, Sungura was connecting herself to him. Which leaves him floating in a nice little lake of wine.

Two pages to go. Unfortunately, tomorrow is a holiday here, and I won't be online much. But maybe I can get a little time still tonight to finish what I've started.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Dr Ug » Thu May 13, 2010 1:58 am UTC

I have to say that is the best argument I've seen for darkname being town. I think the daykill does make sense for the master rather than the apprentice. If that is the reasoning behind everyone else who put him as towny, I apologise for missing that point.

And yes, I am always pushy ;)
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Krong » Thu May 13, 2010 2:45 am UTC

Um... I'd still lean quite heavily toward Sungura being the one who used the daykill, actually. My argument is the timing of it:

Krong posts 3:55pm with vote #5 (not the hammer at that time)
Sungura posts 6:44pm, mad about speedlynch
Sungura posts 6:49pm, gets last words in and throws wine all over the place
Sungura posts 6:50pm, says we should be suspicious of speedlynchers
hendusoone posts 7:03pm, votals
hendusoone posts 7:25pm (edited at 7:36), telling of the deaths, with flavor.

Given the timing, I think it's more likely that Amy gave up on escaping lynch and used her kill than that her ally saw her posts and sent in the kill, choosing not to post in thread. (It wouldn't have had to be a defense post, either... hammering her might have done the job just as well.)

mpolo still has a bit more to write, if he's still up for it, so we should all be pretty close on a vote, right? I'm asking because I'm struggling to think of additional sources of information at this point. We might be able to jump back into some role spec, and try to figure out who the Hutt is (I'll agree with mpolo that Dr Ug seems like a reasonable guess.) I kind of doubt we have any townie power roles left, but we might be nearing the time when listeners, etc. should claim. We could debate that for awhile...

... but really, this day has gone on fairly long for a mini game. We obviously need to be careful, since we're at so few players LYLO must be near, but we're nearing the point where the thread will be fully analyzed. I don't know if there's much more we can discuss.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Dr Ug » Thu May 13, 2010 2:49 am UTC

There is one more point I would like to make, but want to see mpolo's conclusion before this, so please don't hammer me before mpolo has made his conclusion and I have had a chance to post afterwards.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Krong » Thu May 13, 2010 4:00 am UTC

Dr Ug wrote:There is one more point I would like to make, but want to see mpolo's conclusion before this, so please don't hammer me before mpolo has made his conclusion and I have had a chance to post afterwards.

Heh, not much chance of that yet. I think we're at one vote for Darkname is all.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Darkname » Thu May 13, 2010 12:31 pm UTC

Krong wrote: This seems to me to indicate more of a newbie townie than anything... Darkname, how many games have you played on here?


Well erm you see i normally dont pay attetion to new games here and well i didnt Really think i would make it in so i guess ill have to admit this is indeed my first game. But i read earlier on and some one kept claming noobness and that wasnt so good so i woudnt want to do that again.

As for the Pushing of my opion of the other characters id have to really say that i read all their posts and the only reason i found Dr Ug Scummy is because he Got both our jedis killed? If only by accident i dont know..

But i dont find anyone very scummy and it is to small of a group for a random lynch Also because im pretty sure that if to much time passes and their is not a total i would not like to be the only one with a vote on me.

Vote: Dr Ug

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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby Dr Ug » Thu May 13, 2010 12:38 pm UTC

Sorry, but that doesn't cut it.

Give your opinion on the other four characters, or (if you are town) you are condemning us to loss. (or at least a lot lower chance of winning).
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby hendusoone » Thu May 13, 2010 2:02 pm UTC

Votals:

Darkname - 1 (Dr Ug)
Dr Ug - 1 (Darkname)

4 votes to leave someone in a wampa's cave lynch.
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby mpolo » Fri May 14, 2010 8:16 am UTC

STAR WARS III (or is it VI): Revenge Return of the Analysis

Page 7

Spoiler:
Darkname shows up as a replacement.
I see now that it is near certainty that Sungura killed BXM. That means Darkname is not cleared.
VectorZero was killed by the Hutts or their bounty hunter.
Weeks was killed by the Sith Lord.
Krong reasons that there is no doctor, there is a bounty hunter, there is a Sith master. Speculates about recruitment, thinks that perhaps with no Jedi, recruitment is impossible.
Krong points out that Weeks (Jedi) had suggested a connection with Dr Ug and Sungura.
Dr Ug posts his wine-lovers' guide. Er… analysis pointing out that he had led the charge against the Jedis and that Amy appears to be connected with him. He sees his own exchange with Sungura as being very like distancing from a scum-buddy.
Darkname has been quiet…
Krong accepts Dr Ug's distancing from Sungura for now.
Darkname votes Dr Ug for leading the charge on the Jedis.
Will says that Dr Ug's post tends to make him look trustworthyish, but warns of a daring double-bluff. Thinks 2 Jedi, 2 Sith is right.
Krong notices the attack on the Jedi from Dr Ug and FoSes him.
Dr Ug asks Darkname for opinions, berates Asmodieus' lurkiness. Wants to respond to any lynch attempts.
I am not ready to vote, don't have much to add.
Krong looks for breadcrumbs in BXM's posts. Finds none except a possible point in favor of Dr Ug.
Darkname sees himself, Dr Ug, and Asmodieus as scummy. Doesn't see any big danger in his one vote at the moment. Warns that if he dies in the night, Dr Ug will look bad.
Dr Ug asks for towniness reasons from Darkname, asks for prod for Asmodieus.
Asmodieus gives reason for lurkiness, finds voting reason of Darkname to be weak, tends to think that Dr Ug is the scum.
I worry about the wine in Dr Ug's wall of text, don't add to the conversation.
Krong turns to look at Asmodieus, who has had only a few longer posts. He sees some things that are off in the most recent longer post. And votes on it.
Dr Ug is convinced to move over to an Asmodieus vote. Points to a particularly strangely worded speculation of what scum might do if given the chance.
Dr Ug wonders about LYLO situation. Krong asks for frontpage update.
I have nothing worthwhile to say. (I really look horrible on this page.)
Darkname has a strangely worded post before unvoting for the weekend. But he seems to be anticipating a bandwagon.
I finally say something -- analysis of our odds.
Vote stands at Asmodieus 2.


An important page here. I was pretty much useless and apologize profusely.

Darkname is NOT cleared by the death of BXM during CF's access, as flavor indicated that Sungura had killed BXM.

Dr Ug is an enigma. Piles of wine. I was leaning toward making him the Hutt/Bounty Hunter, but that person presumably already won the game, so wouldn't be making such a mess of things, unless he reverted to town after success and is going for a double win.

Darkname seems to have been added during the night and seems to have taken a lot of time to get his bearings. The meta-gamey question would be if he had had time during the night to review everything and come to the (painfully obvious) decision that he should kill Weeks. I'm tending toward a negative answer there, so hesitantly edge Darkname toward the "neutral" category.

Page 8

Spoiler:
will says that nobody really stands out. Dr Ug said that Asmodieus' lurking was unexplained, when in fact there were a couple of posts (Internet problems, AP exam) explaining the reasons. He trusts Krong 100%. Finds Darkname hard to read, but with some possible scumtells.
Krong wants to hear from Asmodieus.
Asmodieus is working on a Dr UG analysis. Finds him scummy or Huttish, or maybe not.
Krong wants to know why Dr Ug is scummy.
Dr Ug echoes this.
Asmodieus thinks that defense is a lost cause, but starts analysing Dr Ug.
Dr Ug claims a power that is minor. Erratic voting. Relation with Sungura.
Dr Ug wants more analysis. Unvotes.
Krong unvotes. Dr Ug has some unusual "I agree with Krong" posts. Worries that he is setting up a relationship. Sees Dr Ug's unvote as non-scummy.
will says that it is a foregone conclusion that Dr Ug or Asmodieus will be the lynchee. Asks why Dr Ug doesn't analyse everybody.
Dr Ug agrees to do so.
Krong says there isn't much to go on. Town: Krong, mpolo; Neutral: will; CF/Darkname unreadable.
Dr Ug's analysis. I am too quiet (guilty!), tend town, but not confirmed. Will seems more town than I. Krong seemed townie when he was Az, had a statement about LYLO on day 3 that would only make sense with 3 scum -- something only a scum would know. Suspicious, but less suspicious than I. Asmodieus has relatively little content, some contradictions, tends town. Darkname lurks far too much. Of people who post, I am listed as most scummy of his three possible scums.
Dr Ug votes Darkname.
Krong says that the LYLO statement was a mistake. He's not sure why he said it.
I check in with little content -- Sungura bandwagon order is more or less meaningless.
Will says Dr Ug is most suspicious. Darkname is a conundrum -- seems scummy, feels townie. Krong is still trusted. Asmodieus is most lurky, leans scummy. No read on me, says I am playing too safe.
Darkname comes with a defense. (With fail quote tags). Says that only two people seem scummy -- himself and Dr Ugg. Rejects lynching a lurker. Strange comment about how a lynch of Darkname would be very welcome to a scummy Dr Ug. (True, in that any lynch that is not Dr Ug would be welcome to a scummy Dr Ug…)
Asmodieus' analysis: Darkname seems harmless; Krong seems towny; I seem neutral (too safe with posts); will has infrequent but well-thought out posts; Suspicions are Dr Ug, Darkname and myself.
Dr Ug wants more from Darkname. Would prefer to avoid a lurker lynch.
Krong complains about our being too safe in posting. Ranks from Townie to scummy: Darkname, me, Dr Ug, will, Asmodieus. Picks up a NaR comment from day one about masons being pushed by the scum, which could be wine-y.
Will still trusts Krong, votes Dr Ug for erratic voting and small tells. Sees me as too safe and opinion free.
I start the mega-post-of-death series.
Will unvotes Dr Ug to let me finish.
Part II.
Dr Ug makes the same mistake I did in thinking the Jedi Master must have killed BXM.
Krong corrects this, appealing to time postings.
Dr Ug has another point that he wants to make after my conclusion.
Darkname wants to have someone else with a vote, votes Ug.
Dr Ug is not convinced.


I will come back with thoughts about this very soon (20-30 minutes).
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby mpolo » Fri May 14, 2010 8:59 am UTC

And now. What does this all mean?

Players
--------
Dr Ug
Darkname
Krong
Asmodieus
willwithskills
mpolo

Probable roles
-----------------
Sith Lord
Hutt Bounty Hunter
Galactic Citizen (x4) -- possibly one of these is a Senator

Lurkers
---------
(all have improved dramatically)
Darkname
Asmodieus
mpolo

Back on that fateful day/night we lost our beloved Jedi and hated Sith, CF was totally absent, only to be replaced late in the night by Darkname. Asmodieus was also very lurky at that point, but Krong pointed out once that he had been online without posting -- and he appeared almost immediately to post. That's actually happened twice -- there was a call for a modprod, and before it could be answered, Asmodieus popped up.

This has me thinking that Asmodieus has been lying low and sniping in when the suspicion gets too high.

Dr Ug is being far too open (I think) to be our scum. With his "minor power", I'm tending to think Bounty Hunter or possibly Senator. This could be an elaborate ruse, but that's how I read it.

Darkname joined the game very late on the fateful night, and based on posting patterns after that, I have considerable doubt that he had time to sift through everything and come up with the debilitating attack that the Sith Master dished out to us. This is meta-gamey, but there you have it.

Like will, I am a little disturbed about how much I trust Krong at the moment.

Will is something of an enigma. He comes in with nice commentaries, but as others have said, they're "safe". If I'm wrong on this vote, I will certainly reconsider him.

I am a truly all-around great guy and not worthy of all the suspicion that has been heaped upon me. In truth, I have been contributing very much insufficiently to the discussion. I kept checking this one last, partially out of being a replacement, and partially because HP eats up time. And then I could only post a top-of-the-head comment, which was generally nonincisive. I hope to do better now.

So my Rank-o-Meter currently reads:
TOWN
Krong
Darkname
Willwithskills
Dr Ug
Asmodieus
SCUM

And so I

Vote: Asmodieus
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Re: Mini - Star Wars: A New Hope for Mafia (Day 3)

Postby willwithskills » Fri May 14, 2010 9:32 am UTC

You made some good points there mpolo. I don't think you've been as useless as you are considering yourself. You did a good job summarizing the game and have made me lean a bit more towards lynching asmodieus. Still, Dr. Ug said he has one more point to make and after he does that I will most likely reinstate my vote on him. In the interest of full disclosure:

TOWN
Krong
mpolo
darkname
asmodieus
Dr. Ug
MAFIA

At least that's how I see it right now.
So it goes.

Dromtry wrote:
willwithskills wrote: I colored sufficiently large purpose on my tail end.

You have a large red hiney?


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