Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Mafia A Wins, Bastadry Revealed!

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Not A Raptor
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Not A Raptor » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:16 am UTC

Well, it's been fun.

I mean...

UAGGGHHH *dead*
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby zerker2000 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:45 am UTC

Spoiler:
Ha, you wish, don't you. Now I, on the other hand, have all the spoilers my heart desires. Nyah-ha-ha-h-*blarg*
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby dedalus » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:53 am UTC

Wow... I go do some exams and look what happens...

Anyway between Weeks, Dr Ug and Ponderous there is one recruit:
Question for the mods: can someone confirm whether they've been recruited by the cult?

Given that Ponderous retains his original condition, there's no reason for him to go along with the cult if his win condition is indeed town. Also, I think it might have been some kind of invention that caused Ponderous to vote against Jayshu - given that Jayshu has confirmed him being the cryptic cop... This means there's a culted inventor, and right now that's more dangerous as far as I'm concerned then anyone else - besides that the cult is fairly neutralised.

Given my own role, I'm fairly sure just off statistics that BXM is cult. Which means that unless Weeks is trying to bus him straight off, Weeks is town, which means that Dr Ug is cult...

With four votes left, I think this is by far the best way to see what happens:
vote: Dr Ug.
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby MartinW » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:17 am UTC

Wow, I slept through the entire night.

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Dr Ug » Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:10 pm UTC

I have something to say about dedalus's post, but I am waiting for a response from the mod about whether what I want to post is a roleclaim or not.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Lataro » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:43 pm UTC

Any explanation on that vote there Weeks?
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Silknor » Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:00 pm UTC

dedalus wrote:Question for the mods: can someone confirm whether they've been recruited by the cult?


Sure, but only if they all imply that they have a strong desire to consume terran flesh when they do so (have to stay in character!).
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Weeks » Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:22 pm UTC

Lataro wrote:Any explanation on that vote there Weeks?
brrrrrrrr.
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Lataro » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:55 pm UTC

Well, I'd guess one of two things has happened. Weeks got a posting restriction as a result of an invention, or is acting like he has one for some reason.

If it is situation one, where some invention is causing this, then it is likely Weeks has some knowledge as to why he is voting for BXM, but can not share it with the rest of us.

If it is situation two, where Weeks is just pretending to have a restriction, then it is likely Weeks is scum of some sort trying to get a townie killed.

I'm kinda lead to believe it is the result of an invention, and as Dr Ug is the only 100% confirmed inventor (In my mind) that makes him a prime suspect in this situation.

Still wondering what is going on with Ponderous though, that seemed like a really strange play to make if he really is who he has claimed to be.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Sledgehmr » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:46 pm UTC

The cult inventor must be stopped, who knows what sort of bastardy the mods would let him invnt if he's still alive. I agree with dedalus' analysis.

Vote: Dr Ug

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Dr Ug » Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:21 pm UTC

As I stated yesterday, I thought Weeks was likely recruited. I know he didn't cause the Ponderous / Jayhsu thing, because he had to have caused the EH death. I also know I didn't cause it.

I think I may have caused weeks' weird posting today due to intereactions of two inventions, but I'm not sure if he's not just making it up.

I continue to await Ponderous's explanation of what went on yesterday, as I don't think an invention caused it.
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Sledgehmr » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:08 am UTC

Ug you're clearly an inventor based on your posts and the oracle. You say weeks caused the EH death which means you caused ponderous to betray Jayhsu. Therefore you're working actively anti-town, where as weeks just NK'd someone suspicious which is not anti-town in intent, only unlucky. Clearly then youare the cult inventor.

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Lataro » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:22 am UTC

I'm kinda on the fence for now as to whom to lynch here. I'd really like to hear something from Ponderous before deciding, however with deadline tomorrow, I will be throwing a vote up before it comes, with or without more info.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Brooklynxman » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:32 am UTC

I think Ponderous is either a traitor or part of the bastardry.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:12 am UTC

Sledgehmr wrote:Ug you're clearly an inventor based on your posts and the oracle. You say weeks caused the EH death which means you caused ponderous to betray Jayhsu. Therefore you're working actively anti-town, where as weeks just NK'd someone suspicious which is not anti-town in intent, only unlucky. Clearly then youare the cult inventor.
If that was really the case, would I really make it that obvious by pointing out that the EH death was by weeks? I was saying that neither of us caused Ponderous's betrayal, because I know my invention did not do it, and also didn't cause EH's death. Which means Weeks must have caused EH's death. I did not cause Ponderous's strangeness, and as I have said many times, I await an explanation from him as to why he bussed his cop-buddy.
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Ponderous » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:09 am UTC

Morning my townie friends. It seems my stratagem was... less than effective. I was so sure that Jayshu had been culted through an invention. He was certainly acting incredibly oddly in his posts. At least we know now that we can trust his results. It seems I should leave "pulling a Gojoe" to the actual Gojoe. :-/

Nevertheless, we should move onwards and forward. I see the points about Dr Ug and agree that he would make a reasonable lynch.

Vote: Dr Ug

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:56 pm UTC

Ponderous wrote:Morning my townie friends. It seems my stratagem was... less than effective. I was so sure that Jayshu had been culted through an invention. He was certainly acting incredibly oddly in his posts. At least we know now that we can trust his results. It seems I should leave "pulling a Gojoe" to the actual Gojoe. :-/

Nevertheless, we should move onwards and forward. I see the points about Dr Ug and agree that he would make a reasonable lynch.

Vote: Dr Ug
That was just bizarre and inexplicable play. You took out your own cop buddy, because you thought he had been recruited (backing it up by faking a cop result - why didn't you cop him instead?), and then you agree that I must be scum because I obviously made you do it with an invention (which in case you failed to read that as well, is the main reason people are suspecting me)... The other bit is that dedalus thinks BXM is cult (for no really stated reason other than "statistics", whatever that means in this context), and therefore because weeks voted for BXM in the midst of nonsense he must be town??? Seriously I can't believe people are buying that...

I do have one question - Ponderous, why did you think Jayhsu had been recruited?

Now, one of weeks and Ponderous has been recruited. [quote=Silknor]If cult targets Mafia or Cop Union member, the recruit succeeds, but the target maintains their original alignment. [/quote]It largely depends on how we interpret this. My interpretation until this point has been that they join the cult from the purposes of PMing etc., but keep their original alignment for the purposes of winning. Another possible interpretation would be that they gain an additional win condition. I had thought this unlikely as it would make that person's win criteria very easy (ie cult / town win or cult / mafia win). But given this behaviour I can't help but look at Ponderous. I assume if he had a town win condition and had infiltrated the cult he would be telling us at this point, but then he did just take out his fellow cop, so who knows if this is assuming too much.

Then there is Weeks who yesterday took out a towny with an invention (i.e. killed Electrichaze), as I pointed out just before nightfall yesterday.

I am struggling to interpret the recruited cop rules as meaning they get both win conditions / alignments, so despite the very suspicious play by Ponderous, I'm going to

Vote: weeks.
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Weeks » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:29 pm UTC

ugggg

unvote
Vote: Dr Ug
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Lataro » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:36 pm UTC

huh... I guess I won't be throwing a vote up before day end... carry on.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Brooklynxman » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:43 pm UTC

Vote: Weeks

I am almost positive Ponderous is a mod and a bastard, but am TERRIFIED of the results of lynching him (everyone who voted him dies, etc.). So....yeah.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Silknor » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:10 pm UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:Vote: Weeks

I am almost positive Ponderous is a mod and a bastard, but am TERRIFIED of the results of lynching him (everyone who voted him dies, etc.). So....yeah.


We're not that kind of bastards. So either Ponderous isn't a mod or we wouldn't actually modkill people who lynched him. I'll leave it to you to guess which.
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 6: The Final Showdown?

Postby Silknor » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:16 pm UTC

With the sun rising in the background, 4 figures raised their weapons at Dr Ug. Their group was the epitome of diversity. Among them was one Terran, one Light Protoss, one Dark Protoss, and one Zerg. But that only makes sense if Ug is Terran, right? Right?!

Dr Ug has been lynched. He was an inventor, and had been culted night 4.
Brooklynxman has been killed by Mafia B. He was the Cult Day Rolecop (Zerg).
Weeks has been killed by Mafia A and the Mafia B Hitman. He was an inventor (Terran).

It is now Day 7. 4 players remain. 3 to lynch. 48 hour time limit.


The next Turbo game, Asylumafia with Dr Ug and Aardvarki modding, is currently in signups.
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby Lataro » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:41 pm UTC

Hmm, by my count we have four people left, and as the post title says, we have 1 of each faction.

1 Cop
1 Mafia A
1 Mafia B
1 Cult

I think everyone right now is worried about the Mafia B hitman, as he controls two kills right now. If we don't lynch him, Mafia B has a very high likelyhood of winning the game. Alternatively, if we lynch Mafia A, then Mafia B is completely guaranteed victory as he can't be NK'ed and will kill the other two.

Therefore, we can not lynch Mafia A, else Mafia B win.

I am the last remaining member of Mafia A, the Cop Tricker. I've been mostly using my power on myself so I'd be able to stick around til the end if investigated. Both town and cult can not afford to lynch me or they both lose and Mafia B wins, which according to my preferred win status, isn't all that bad for me.

Therefore, we must lynch someone besides me. Ponderous is the cop, so lets see if he has any information as to between dedalus and sledgehmr is the Mafia B.

As whoever isn't the hitman, and is therefore cult, and Ponderous. It is in your interest to lynch him over me, as one of you is going to survive til the last day with me, and that is kinda a pseudo win for you I suppose. Look at it this way, you got a 50/50 chance of doing so if you help my lynch Mafia B. You have a 100% chance of losing if you lynch me.

Think about it.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby Sledgehmr » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:48 pm UTC

I fully agree with Lataro's reasoning. Therefore I shall vote for whoever Ponderous tells us is the hitman. If he hasn't figured it out....we're probably screwed. It's not like we could look over posts and try to figure out who the hitman is, so we have to instead rely on the cop!

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby Ponderous » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:50 pm UTC

Greetings all! I have grand news. I have found the last member of Mafia B, the hitman. His name is "no lynch". As I think lynching the hitman now is the best course of action, I'll go ahead and put my vote down.

Vote: No Lynch

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby Silknor » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:00 pm UTC

Since I've already allowed one person to roleclaim today and two different types of claims yesterday I'm going to announce it's now:

Open season on roleclaims. No restrictions.

I like the strategies here too much to say no roleclaiming anymore and it's not like there's any threat of a mass claim that'd reveal all the scum (which was the original reason for no roleclaims.
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby Lataro » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:36 pm UTC

Ponderous wrote:Greetings all! I have grand news. I have found the last member of Mafia B, the hitman. His name is "no lynch". As I think lynching the hitman now is the best course of action, I'll go ahead and put my vote down.

Vote: No Lynch



Huh? Is this some delayed effect invention or something? What the heck is going on here? C'mon Ponderous, this isn't the time for jokes, I'm offering you guys a chance at a pseudo win here, don't mess with me.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby Sledgehmr » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:46 pm UTC

First let me say congratulations to the Cop for managing to find the hitman. This is indeed the best that we as a town can hope for. I see no alternative but to lynch who you suggest.

Now, doubters will probably say something like "But No Lynch isn't even on the player list!" "Ponderous lied yesterday!" or "Only scum vote no lynch!" (this one being particularly silly since we know Ponderous is town). Some will probably go so far as to try to say ponderous is trying to trick us into not lynching, but there's clearly no incentive for the cop to do so.

Obviously then No Lynch is a code for the real hitman that the mods will translate into a lynch for the actual hitman. This must be the bastardy that they promised us. So by voting no lynch, we're guaranteed to kill the hitman.

Vote: No Lynch

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby Lataro » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:14 pm UTC

Sledgehmr wrote:First let me say congratulations to the Cop for managing to find the hitman. This is indeed the best that we as a town can hope for. I see no alternative but to lynch who you suggest.

Now, doubters will probably say something like "But No Lynch isn't even on the player list!" "Ponderous lied yesterday!" or "Only scum vote no lynch!" (this one being particularly silly since we know Ponderous is town). Some will probably go so far as to try to say ponderous is trying to trick us into not lynching, but there's clearly no incentive for the cop to do so.

Obviously then No Lynch is a code for the real hitman that the mods will translate into a lynch for the actual hitman. This must be the bastardy that they promised us. So by voting no lynch, we're guaranteed to kill the hitman.

Vote: No Lynch



This is the most twisted logic I've ever read. If we no lynch today, This gives a heavy advantage to Mafia B. Since this is between you and dedalus, this has me leaning towards you. The other alternative is that Ponderous really was culted, and the mods are screwing with me here and the real count is 1 mafia B, me, and 2 cult. If you are the cult and Ponderous is as well, then that would explain a few things. Since mafia B will almost for sure kill me, that leaves 3 people, and 2 NKs left. The cult could be the last man standing in this situation.

However, if we lynch one of you two, and you are both cult, this game could end tomorrow with no one left alive!

ARG THIS MAKES NO SENSE!

Vote: Sledgehmr
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby Sledgehmr » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:54 pm UTC

Sigh....you persist in thinking voting "No Lynch" means voting for a non-lynch, not voting to kill the player codenamed "No Lynch" (who is the hitman). If you were right about Ponderous and my votes being interpreted in that way, then I'd fully agree with you about it being a bad strategy for the town (and probably cult).

But you must realize that is not what "No Lynch" means here.

Shake your self free from the chains that bind your understanding to non-bastard games! Liberate your mind and rejoice in your new found freedom from those shackles! Just because you'd be right in any other game doesn't mean you're right here. I trust Ponderous, don't you?

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby Lataro » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:03 pm UTC

I did, all his calls had been in my best interests til now. One could argue about outting OverBored, but really, that was a good thing, as we were wondering how we were going to get him lynched so he'd full win with us.

This no lynch stuff though, I don't think I can take that leap of faith. I'd rather take a 50/50 crap shot between you and dedalus. I urge you dedalus to vote to lynch sledgehmr with me, with a tie between no lynch and him, he'll be lynched, I'll NK Ponderous, and we'll see where the dust settles. If you are the hitman, you win, if you aren't, you lived to the end at least.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby dedalus » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:18 am UTC

To be honest with you, I'm somewhat amused... Let's see where this rabbithole leads...
vote: No Lynch
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby Sungura » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:01 pm UTC

Silky I'm back! *hugs* did you miss me?
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she/<any gender neutral>/snug

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Day 7: 1 of each faction remain

Postby Silknor » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:13 pm UTC

No Lynch has achieved a majority of votes. It is now Night 7.

2 players voting for No Lynch as if that was the hitman? That's the strangest thing ever to happen in one of my games. There must be some bastardy going on.

So if we believe the players, apparently the hitman was lynched, but yet there was not a lynch?

Also right after:
Let's see where this rabbithole leads...

Amy shows up. Good timing. Welcome back! We've missed your bastard posting in this thread. Once you left the players actually started to believe there was nothing bastard about this game! Can you believe it?
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Night 7

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:25 pm UTC

Only because I was dead and no longer technically a player.
23111

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Night 7

Postby Lataro » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:57 pm UTC

Freakin' seriously? This is BS.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Night 7

Postby Silknor » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:10 pm UTC

1 Terran. 1 Zerg. 1 Dark Protoss. 3 Masks between them. All dead.

When the 1 Light Protoss still alive pulled off the 3 masks he saw all three were smiling...


There was no lynch on Day 7 (Seriously Sledgehmr/Ponderous, you actually thought that would work??).
Dedalus has been killed by Mafia B. He was the Cop-Immune Cultist.
Ponderous has been killed by the Hitman. He was Cryptic Cop.
Sledgehmr has been killed by Mafia A. He, not "No Lynch," was the Mafia B Hitman.

Lataro is the only living player. He, the Mafia A Cop Tricker, and the rest of Mafia A wins.


And now for the bastardy to be revealed:
Spoiler:
As many know by now, since we've confirmed it in spoilers and elsewhere:
Ponderous was the alternative account of MartinW.
Sledgehmr was the alternative account of Silknor.

It is interesting to note that Azrael apparently guessed that both Sledgehmr and Ponderous were mod alts on Day 1 in a PM to the rest of the cop union besides Ponderous. But from what I've been able to tell, he didn't get the question of why) and he missed that those mod alts were only the first level of bastardy, so that no one would look deeper.

So you might ask, with 2 mods alive out of 4 players on Day 7, why was it Lataro left standing (when surely the 2 mods could have lynched Lataro and had Sledgehmr NK the other two)? And then you'll begin to realize why we call this a bastard game.

From the game info listing in the signup page:
3. Bastard (The Mods will actively manipulate the game in ways that don't change any of the roles/powers we posted, everything in the roles/powers section will be accurate though, there will be an extensive list of what you can trust when it starts).


Many people here have played bastard games before, and associate them with closed setups that may have some kind of twist (eg everyone is townie, mod does the NK), or people interact with the mods in ways impossible to predict (eg an inventor that opens a mystery box and suddenly dies). So then, how do you do a bastard game in an entirely open setup? Even more than that, we didn't allow the mods to lie in the traditional ways you'd expect in a bastard game. No falsely revealing roles, no giving players items that they don't know what they do, not even trying to trick inventors (we told the inventor exactly what the invention would do and then only used it IF they wanted it to be used, they always did since we never gave them inventions that would hurt them).

So the normal traditional avenues of bastardly modding are gone. We can't lie to you about your alignment, win condition, role, powers etc. We can't magically cause items to appear (barring informed consent from inventors) and have them kill players, or publicly false day rolecop players, or anything like that.

Many entertained the idea that there were only two types of bastardry here. The first being flavor text, oracle clues, or mod-points that may have distracted and even misled players, but had no real impact on the game since you could ignore them completely and be able to play normally (btw: Amy was not a mod, just a non-player who asked permission to post things to screw with people). The second would be the lack of real bastard modding (eg. there aren't any mystery items or lies about roles/powers/alignments, so the bastardy must be that it's called bastard but doesn't have those things!). Yeah, that wasn't it. But we were content to go along with the idea that those were the sources because it made the actual bastardy easier.

So now we finally get to the bastard modding. The clues were there from the start:
actively manipulate


I don't consider screwing around with the players just for the sake of screwing around to be an active manipulation of the game. It's bastardly sure, but everyone expected that. What then was there to actively manipulate? The outcome.

So here's the core: the mods intentionally created an underpowered scum faction (Mafia A, which lacked the sheer numbers of the cult, the multiple kills of Mafia B, or the massive number of power roles that the Town had, and to top it off had a Jester so they really only had 2.5 members compared to a 4 man Mafia B, and a cult that could easily hit 5 and more likely 6 or the max of 7). Then we helped that faction win.

My first message to Mafia A and the mods wrote:Hello Mafia A. This is your friendly (but bastardly) mod. Remember how I said the mods would actively interfere in the game? Well we made your faction the weakest by far and we're going to ally ourselves with you for victory. The chances of your team winning on it's own is slim, you're undermanned and underpowered compared to the other Mafia, the Cult, and especially the Town. Obviously you can't do anything that would let on to players not in the Mod/Mafia A team that the Mods are working with Mafia A. Were that to happen, the mods would probably be forced to withdraw our support and let natural forces crush you while we interfere in other ways.

Besides the mods being on your side, you also have a less orthodox set of allies. The mod infiltrators.
Dedalus is secretly a mod, and is a member of the cult. He'll be working with us to bring Mafia A to victory.
Sledgehmr is my secret alternate account, he's in Mafia B, but is actually working for Mafia A to win.
Ponderous is Martin's alt, and has infiltrated the cop union, he's also working for Mafia A.

It bears repeating. None of this information is to be shared with those not on this PM (or their alts). We will drop you like its hot if you screw things up by revealing a mod's identity or alt or let on that you have knowledge you shouldn't have. Do not post anything in spoilers you couldn't post publicly. Besides not 100 percent trusting all the players not to act like bastards in a bastard game, we also want to pull the wool over the observer's eyes.

Remember Mafia A (like the other groups) has daytalk, so we can strategize by PM at all times.

You'll notice that two of you have abilities that make it much easier for us to protect you, so as long as not more than one of you gets copped or targeted for a kill per night, you should be quite safe with us telling you who to use your abilities on.

Lynches are a larger issue, we control only 6 votes out of the 24 at the start, and thanks to triple voters, the town could easily muster a majority against you, so you'll still have to avoid getting lynched.

Overbored: while you are technically a jester, we urge you to ignore that half of your win condition for now, we'll protect you until towards the end and then let you get lynched.


This PM went out to the three Mafia A members, Martin, and Dedalus (who as the PM states, was also a mod).

A quick note on dedalus being: we fully expected that our mod alts would be discovered. We didn't expect a guess on day 1, but then that line of questioning seemed to go away once Az got NK'd (surprisingly, the mods had nothing to do with it, Mafia B's ninja, without any prodding from Sledgehmr, decided to NK Az). We expected that by mid game there would be a great deal of speculation about how we were bastards and who Ponderous/Sledgehmr might be, but that never seemed to arise until Ponderous betrayed Jayhsu, and even then Sledgehmr wasn't broadly suspected. So expecting that Ponderous and Sledgehmr would be detected and possibly lynched (we would've made empty threats to protect them, like asking if you really want to lynch a mod alt or threatening to modkill the hammerer, but those were clearly outside the rules we set for modding so we never would've done them), we got Dedalus, who signed up as a mod before he did as a player, to be a far harder to detect mod player. This also was nice since it gave us infiltration into all three of the factions besides Mafia that could privately communicate.

So then, you can probably guess some of what we did as bastard mods now that you know our goal:
Assigned the Mafia Doc after all the NKs were in to protect anyone of our group of 6 from death.
Same thing for the Cop Tricker, though when none of us were targeted, we used it to give a false result to a cop on a townie.
Picked Mafia A's NK so that it wouldn't be wasted and would be useful in terms of our strategy (or sometimes just to kill less active players).
Shared a limited selection of role information with the members of Mafia A (dedalus had the full list of course). We didn't want to give them everything because we needed to have leverage over them in case they decided to go rogue and betray the mods by say outing our alts.
Ditto for inventions, who was being investigated/doctored, etc.

Now obviously once we got Mafia B picked off and we had control of all the NKs, we could've skipped less kills, but we didn't just want Mafia A to win. We wanted them to win when it looked like they couldn't, to win against a double NK SK (the hitman once the other 3 in B died) and a massive cult (sadly we had to modkill SDG for inactivity, we wanted the cult to be stronger, but if he hadn't been inactive, then he would've been immune to recruitment and killed the recruiter since he'd probably activate his abilities). So we had to get Overbored lynched (easy once people started to FTC) and NK zerker (Mafia A didn't know we were going to do this, so they didn't even bother to submit a target for the doc to protect without being told to). That got us down to 1, and we picked Lataro over Zerker because Zerker screwed up earlier and basically outed Ponderous as a mod though this seemed to escape much notice. It was also less risky given Zerker's scummy history, but honestly from Day 3 on we had control of the Lynch through Ponderous anyway.

We did clash heads with some in Mafia A repeatedly, especially Lataro who seemed to prefer taking an easy win over letting the cult get strong so the win was more satisfying. We think he made the cult out to be a bigger threat than they really were, even with them controlling 5 of 11 votes say I wouldn't be worried. But from the time it had 10 players on, we had a complete map of how the rest of the game would go, and were confident that we could get it to go that way (it did, though with the small exception that we changed Day 7 to 4 alive instead of the 3 alive we originally planned simply so the NKs on N7 would be different).

Finally some may wonder that the game didn't end earlier when only mods+Lataro were alive or when MafiaA+Mods had a majority. The reason is that for Mafia A to win, we set the condition that all the mods had to be killed first, just like if they weren't mods.

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed (or at least were surprised by) your first Open setup Bastard game. Many correctly noted to me that on the surface, a lot of the current closed games seem more bastardly than this one did on day 3 or 4. The part that worries me is not the implication that my game was not sufficiently bastardly to live up to it's name (I think everyone will agree it was), but rather that I agree with them: half of the closed setups seem more bastardly than what we used to call bastard games. The norm of non-interference in non bastard games seemingly has been greatly eroded. I cannot help but wonder if this is a consequence in part of both games becoming more closed and slower as time goes on, the first allowing such intervention, and the second encouraging the mod to try to mess with the game to keep people interested or to encourage activity. Perhaps there are simply too many slow games up at once.


TL;DR Version of the above spoiler (I really implore you to read the other one, it'll be much more interesting and informative than this one, and will actually give some insight into what the mods were thinking):
Spoiler:
Ponderous was MartinW's alt.
Sledgehmr was Silknor's alt.
Dedalus was a Mod.
Sungura was not a mod, just someone who we let screw with players in the game.
The mod's goal was to manipulate the game so that Mafia A, the weakest faction, won a come from behind victory against a large cult, a stronger and having more NKs Mafia B, and a town where everyone had a strong power role. We coordinated strategy with Mafia A through PMs and helped them pick the right targets for their NK and night abilities to do so.


Full Role+Night Action+Invention list:
Spoiler:
Town:
Sane Cop-Aardvarki
Sane Rolecop-Jayhsu
Cryptic Rolecop-Ponderous
Tracker-BigNose
Watcher-Azrael001
Oracle-Not A Raptor
Oracle-ElectricHaze
Inventor-Dr Ug
Inventor-Weeks
Jack of all Trades-The Mighty Thesaurus
White Mage-mpolo
FPTSLBOOIA-superdemongob
Triple Roleblocking Voter-dotproduct
Triple Roleblocking Voter-weiyaoli

Mafia A:
Mafia Doc-zerker2000
Cop tricker-Lataro
Jester-Overbored

Mafia B:
Hitman-Sledgehmr
Ninja-b.i.o
Cop-Immune Godfather-TMP
Interrogator-Rakysh

Cult:
Absorber-Gojoe
Day rolecop-Brooklynxman
Cop Immune Cultist-Dedalus

Day 1:
Weeks invents Firebat Suit: Complete immunity to fire-based kills for the rest of the game. Can PM name of target to the mods during the day. That person will be roasted by your flame throwers (only lightly injured though). If they are terran, the mod will post that they yell "AHHHHH MY ARM!!!!!", if they Zerg the mod will post "I love the smell of roasted zergling in the morning, it smells like...bacon", if they are Protoss the mod will post "Shield Harmornics adjusted to compensate, EM radiation discharge blocked." I (Silknor) will post the accurate response based on their role, while MartinW will lie.
Dr Ug invents Postmortem Extracorporeal Existence Stabiliser: Saves a random person from dying that night.

Lynch: BigNose (6v6, with RBTV voting for Bignose)


Sane Cop (Aard): Lataro (Sent town since Lataro protected by Cop Tricker)
Sane Rolecop (Jayhsu): TMP (Sent RBTV since TMP is Cop-immune godfather)
Cryptic Rolecop (Ponder): Rakysh
Tracker: DEAD
Watcher (Az): TMT

Oracle (NAR): NEED THIS

Oracle (EH): TMT
Inventor (Weeks): N/A
Inventor (Ug): Use it.
JoaT (TMT): Cop Dedalus
White Mage (mpolo): Gojoe (Protection did not apply, recruited into the Cult by absorber)
FPTSLBOOIA (sdg): Fly+Arm Lasers
RBTVs: one voted for bignose, other didn't vote

Mafia A NK: Overbored kills TMP
Cop Tricker: Lataro
Mafia Doc: Not used

Mafia B NK: TMT
Ninja: One shot kill Azrael001
Interrogator (Rakysh): dotproduct
Hitman: Blocked by invention

Cult Recruit: Az
Day Rolecop (BXM): Ponderous

Notes: Mpolo gets recruited by Gojoe (Absorber)

Day 2:
Cult Day rolecop: SDG
Week's flamethrower invention from N1 targets Dedalus
New inventions:

Weeks: Thor's Hammer particle accelerator. It puts a player in a state of quantum uncertainly, being both dead and not dead. They can only survive by clinging to this world, which they do by posting at least 3 times in 24 hours for the next three real life days. This cements their collection to this world and allows them to live.
Ug: Zergification Prevention Vehicle: You can once off use it to protect the cop union. It makes them feel safe, and because of that they can bend the rules and roleclaim for the rest of the game without any consequences. It also allows anyone else who wants to, to claim a cop union role, as it's now considered safe to do so. However, due to being built by the lowest bidder, it doesn't actually protect. If you choose to use it, it's effect will be publically announced.

Lynch: Dotproduct

Sane Cop (Aard): Dedalus (protected by cop tricker, so give alignment of terran
Sane Rolecop (Jayhsu): Weiyaoli
Cryptic Rolecop (Ponder): ROLEBLOCKED
Tracker: DEAD
Watcher (Az): DEAD

Oracle (NAR): Gojoe

Oracle (EH): ROLEBLOCKED
Inventor (Weeks): Use invention on Gojoe
Inventor (Ug): Use
JoaT (TMT): DEAD
White Mage (mpolo): Dedalus
FPTSLBOOIA (sdg): Didn't get a response, not using abilities
RBTVs: Block Ponderous and Electric Haze

Mafia A NK: b.i.o
Cop Tricker: Dedalus
Mafia Doc: Skip

Mafia B NK: Skip
Interrogator (Rakysh): Gojoe
Hitman: Skip

Cult Recruit: SDG
Day Rolecop (BXM): SDG

Day 3:
Weeks invention: You have invented a command center. With armored doors and security systems, this looks like a perfect place to hide for tonight! If you enter the command center you cannot be killed tonight.
Ug invention: You have invented a Autonomous chainsaw wielding alien hunting android. If you choose to activate the program, it will automatically kill a single mafia/cultist.

Lynch 3: Gojoe

Night 3 modkills:
SDG

Sane Cop (Aard): mpolo
Sane Rolecop (Jayhsu): Overbored
Cryptic Rolecop (Ponder):
Tracker: DEAD
Watcher (Az): DEAD

Oracle (NAR): Dedalus

Oracle (EH): NAR
Inventor (Weeks): Use
Inventor (Ug): Use
JoaT (TMT): DEAD
White Mage (mpolo): Brook
FPTSLBOOIA (sdg): MODKILLED
RBTVs: No roleblocks

Mafia A NK: Rakysh
Cop Tricker: Not used
Mafia Doc: Not used

Mafia B NK: Someone protected
Interrogator (Rakysh): Not used
Hitman: Aardvarki

Cult Recruit: Skip
Day Rolecop (BXM): not used

Day 4 Lynch: Overbored
Weeks invention: You may pick a target and nightkill them. If they are protected, then the grenades will bounce off them and kill someone else (besides you) at random.
Ug invention: Dr Ug's amazing truthification verifier. Quote one sentence, no less, no more, made so far by a player in the game. You will learn if it is true or false.


Sane Cop (Aard): DEAD
Sane Rolecop (Jayhsu): mpolo
Cryptic Rolecop (Ponder):
Tracker: DEAD
Watcher (Az): DEAD

Oracle (NAR): Weeks

Oracle (EH): Jayhsu
Inventor (Weeks): Kill ElectricHaze
Inventor (Ug): Mpolo D1: "I am not a zerg", Martin saying Dedalus said AHH MY TERRAN Arm, told both true
JoaT (TMT): DEAD
White Mage (mpolo): Dedalus
FPTSLBOOIA (sdg): DEAD
RBTVs: No roleblocks

Mafia A NK: Mpolo
Cop Tricker: Skip
Mafia Doc: Skip

Mafia B NK: Skip
Interrogator: DEAD
Hitman: Weiyaoli

Cult Recruit: Dr Ug
Day Rolecop (BXM): Weeks

Day 5 Lynch: Jayhsu

Weeks invention: Invent: Ghost training facility. You have invented a Ghost training facility. This is not to be confused with a barracks + working covert ops lab, which produces Ghosts. You gain the power to train up to three ghosts and send them out to investigate enemies (pick one target per ghost trained). Each of them will return and tell you if their target is a zerg.
Ugs invention: Invent: super Mc-shooty-shooty Plasma Rifle. You may target 1 player tonight and shoot your Mcdonald's-burger-fueled Plasma Rifle at them, instantly killing them.

Here's the current plan:
B-A-Cult-Unculted Townies
1-2-3-3 (Ponder+Weeks+NAR)
NK Zerker+NAR:
1-1-3-2 (Ponder+Weeks)
Lynch Ug (this is the key step where dedalus is capable of causing trouble. However, by leaving weeks alive instead of NAR, we can use the invention to help weeks want to lynch ug [brook works too but I think I'd prefer killing the inventor], reducing the possibility of issues):
1-1-2-2
NK Dedalus+Brook+Weeks
1-1-0-1 (You, me, Lataro) No Lynch, Lataro NK Sledgehmr, I NK you, Lataro only one left alive

Sane Cop (Aard): DEAD
Sane Rolecop (Jayhsu): DEAD
Cryptic Rolecop (Ponder): N/A
Tracker: DEAD
Watcher (Az): DEAD

Oracle (NAR): Getting killed tonight anyway

Oracle (EH): DEAD
Inventor (Weeks): Investigated Ug Brook and Lataro, honest results
Inventor (Ug): NK Weeks (blocked by Mafia Doc)
JoaT (TMT): DEAD
White Mage (mpolo): DEAD
FPTSLBOOIA (sdg): DEAD
RBTVs: DEAD

Mafia A NK: NAR
Cop Tricker: Skip
Mafia Doc: Weeks

Mafia B NK: Skip
Interrogator: DEAD
Hitman: Zerker

Cult Recruit: Out of recruits
Day Rolecop (BXM): Skip

Day 6 Lynch: Dr Ug
Nikc wrote:Silknor is the JJ Abrams of mafia modding

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Lataro
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Mafia A Wins, Bastadry Revealed!

Postby Lataro » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:25 pm UTC

I hope someone at least believed that I didn't know what was up with the last day.

Yay! :queue FFIV victory music, because it was so much better than the others:
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Brooklynxman
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Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Mafia A Wins, Bastadry Revealed!

Postby Brooklynxman » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:41 pm UTC

I didn't. I am impressed, and really should have known dedalus was a traitor (I pride myself on my paranoia as of late, note MoA where I suspected a totally innocent scum buddy cause of one slip up in thread). I expected bastardry somehow (and especially lynching Ponderous to be.......bad) but....well....wow.

And the reason I stopped suspecting Ponderous was someone said he and Silknor were playing a newbie game I think. Together. Obviously it couldn't be you, I forgot about Martin.

I did feel a little jipped when the town (again, they did this in HP too, and Cuban was similar) got me by narrowing down the options instead of analysing me, but I suppose as I get better at playing I need to expect that to happen more often to balance.

In the words of the dark father "Impressive......most impressive"
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

Spoiler:
Image

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Lataro
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Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 6:56 am UTC

Re: Openly Bastard [Turbo]: Mafia A Wins, Bastadry Revealed!

Postby Lataro » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:42 pm UTC

Silknor wrote:So then, you can probably guess some of what we did as bastard mods now that you know our goal:
Assigned the Mafia Doc after all the NKs were in to protect anyone of our group of 6 from death.
Same thing for the Cop Tricker, though when none of us were targeted, we used it to give a false result to a cop on a townie.
Picked Mafia A's NK so that it wouldn't be wasted and would be useful in terms of our strategy (or sometimes just to kill less active players).
Shared a limited selection of role information with the members of Mafia A (dedalus had the full list of course). We didn't want to give them everything because we needed to have leverage over them in case they decided to go rogue and betray the mods by say outing our alts.
Ditto for inventions, who was being investigated/doctored, etc.


I was considering this when we submitted a NK and you decided to choose someone different for it.

To everyone else, I was kinda expecting to get betrayed in the end. I was pretty paranoid about the mod's claim, and questioned Silknor repeatedly via PM if that first PM he sent us was subject to bastardness or if it was under the umbrella of things you can trust. He kept insisting it was something to be trusted, but I was still half expecting the true extent of the bastardness to be something where no one is alive on the last day, or when it gets down to it like it did on D7, that they'd gang up and betray us. I mean, that would of been REALLY bastardly of them, right?

What Silknor says about Zerker practically outting Martin is true as well. Martin made a post on his Martin account instead of Ponderous one with the cryptic cop results and other game related stuff. I guess only me and Zerker saw it before he saw it himself or got my PM telling him what he had done, and he was able to edit it to just be something harmless. I was kinda surprised that no one else saw it, or picked up on what Zerker was posting about when he was going on about it. He got yelled at a lot in PMs over that slip.

Overall though, I felt more like a secret mod than a player, as I knew a heck of a lot more than I should of known. Avoiding getting lynched wasn't hard when I knew the alignments of those fighting the day before and could pick NKs that would create the most mud to hide in the first few days.

As to the comment about me wanting to take the easier win, it was mostly because I didn't trust the mods and wanted to keep hold of enough rope to hang 'em if they betrayed us. When they suggested Overbored counter claim Ponderous after Ponderous claimed so that Overbored could get his lynch, I really wasn't trusting them much, and was able to work out a lynch of him the next day that wasn't as risky to us. After Zerker got NK'ed I again was strongly considering betraying them, as they told me our NK was planned til the end of the game and they had it's ending locked in. Knowing I'd be going into the final day with them alone was not something I was looking forward to, since they could betray me in so many ways with their voting power and NKs.

I suppose I made the right call in the end in not outing them, but I kinda wish I had in hindsight just to mess with the mods in this bastard game of theirs.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."


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