[i] - Dexterafia: Town Wins

For your simulated organized crime needs.

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Krong
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Krong » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:34 am UTC

Hmm. Weeks has been looking a bit weird, and so has VZ, but I don't see anything in that weirdness that looks terribly anti-town. Might help if Weeks explains what that comment about not commenting was about.

The unhelpful part of the bandwagon lynch is that there were really 2 bandwagons, and some people were slower in switching than others. Hard to say if it was intentionally so or what, but we know WWS was town, and (IMO) Az looks townish, so mafia really wouldn't mind being on either (again IMO).

I'd like to hear from Weeks, but in the meantime:

Vote: TheMooProphet

(For reasons stated earlier, i.e. pushing hard against Az based mostly on "he isn't trustworthy".)
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D1 Murder at Miami Metro

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:50 am UTC

If an argument for lynching a townie is strong enough, do the mafia really need to get on the bandwagon? In other words, was VZ's argument strong enough to instigate a purely town-on-town lynching? If not, where does it fail (apart from the conclusion that WWS=scum)?

I feel I ought to respond to this:
weiyaoli wrote:Why would you want to "punish" all anti-town behaviour? If you think they are town playing badly, you don't want to be lynching them for that because you think they are town. Sure it might improve people's play generally if they are punished by a lynch everytime they act anti-town, but I don't think it makes sense to do so in the context of a single game where you want to win for town.

It's that sort of short term thinking that got the world into the state it's currently in. If we have to sacrifice a single victory for the overall health of the game, so be it.
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:52 am UTC

I've been out more or less all weekend. Sorry. As for current events, I almost think that Tigerlion should fully claim now, as his slip is something that I only ever almost do as scum. As town power I'm too cautious to do something like that. Then again, perhaps he feels like he's got nothing to hide because he is town. It depends, it's been a while since I've played with Tigion, so I don't recall his meta.

As for short term punishment for bad towniness, that only works if we don't have as large a player turn-over as we've got. It's not much good to kill people for bad play if they never play again, or we have five new people replace them and pull the same stunt. Anyone other than TMT would pull a vote, from me, for the way he's been talking, but TMT is pretty ornery in general, so it's not enough to vote.

It took my third read through to find the spot where Weeks claimed to be targeted for a kill last night. It could mean that Weeks can't be killed at night, or perhaps someone doctored him... I'm not sure.

Still working on a plausible scum list.
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Brooklynxman » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:36 am UTC

Sorry. Kind of lost track of this. I'll catch up on this either tomorrow morning or afternoon (I was reading the posts as they came in but never had time to organize my thoughts into a post).
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby OverBored » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:36 pm UTC

Okay, firstly to say I am really sorry for the lack of posting. My workload suddenly exploded over the weekend (3 supervisions in 3 days, what's up with that?!) For now I won't post too extensively, but once I've done a bit more work today I should be free to post quite in depth later.

First off: Weeks' comment about being targeted etc was very short, and there wasn't much too it. As Azrael noted, it would be pretty easy to miss, so I kinda wonder why weeks' put it in. On the one hand, it seems like a really strange move for anyone to lie about this, so I think Weeks' is probably telling the truth. However, it feels like it was put in as an after thought. Weeks has said almost nothing about this, speculation has been from everyone else. Because of that, I think weeks believes that little good will come from pursuing this line of enquiry any further, and I think I will provisionally agree.

Tigerlion: :roll: I disagree with Az. I don't think any good will come from Tigerlion making a full claim. In my opinion the only sensible claim would be to make a decision and claim that role, regardless of what his actual role is.

This is pretty speculative, but it is basically what I would do if I had to role-claim at this point in the game. I would claim some mid-power role regardless. I think this is probably more a silly slip from a power-role tigerlion, but I guess it could be one of those mafia mistakes. Unfortunately, it makes him quite a major lynch candidate tonight. whether warranted or not.
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby VectorZero » Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:05 pm UTC

Posting to avoid modkill, but I've just finished a 15 hour shift and am in no position to respond to the vote. Hopefully in the morning.
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby ameretrifle » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:19 pm UTC

On VZ: Since I wasn't particularly suspicious of him before, and there's the whole thing with Dune starting, you'd have a hard time convincing me to attack him today.

On Tigerlion: I don't think a claim is warranted at this point. It doesn't seem a scum-slip to me, for one. Also, if he's scum, best case scenario is we get a power role killed counterclaiming him (and that's if he picks something counterclaimable-- still not sure how likely that is to be in this game). Usually not a bad trade, but still, not really finding him scummy, I'd still like to hope for better. If he's town, he makes himself a target when right now he's still suspicious enough for scum to let slide preparing for a "But why are you not dead yet??" argument later.

I'm willing to look at TMP due to Krong's post. I've also been looking a bit at S_E, but I don't have a lot of faith in my scumdar just now. >_>

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D1 Murder at Miami Metro

Postby MasterOfAll » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:01 pm UTC

Vote Count
VectorZero - 1 vote (Dr Ug)
The Moo Prophet - 1 vote (Krong)

(8 votes needed to lynch, or minimum of 5 at deadline)


Deadline
About 4 days from now.


Players who will be removed from game if they do not post in next 24 hours:

Jar'O'Jam
Jebobek
The Moo Prophet
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Brooklynxman » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:47 pm UTC

Okay, I really would rather Weeks told us if this was a mechanism of his role or not. However, I understand the logic behind hiding it.

Accusations are flying back and forth as far as I can see. I am going to

FOS: Krong


for having a vote on someone who is on the "to be removed from the game" list. The vote is pointless right now.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Krong » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:55 pm UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:
FOS: Krong


for having a vote on someone who is on the "to be removed from the game" list. The vote is pointless right now.

Um, reaching much? Either TMP will be removed with plenty of time remaining before the deadline, or TMP will come back and have to give me a reason to move my vote. An unvote would be just as pointless right now.
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby roband » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:00 am UTC

I've prodded those in MoA's list.

No extra votes for me to count yet, get busy.
Deadline isn't far away and I hate all that faffing about with sudden votecounts being needed in the last few hours ;)

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Brooklynxman » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:12 am UTC

Krong wrote:
Brooklynxman wrote:
FOS: Krong


for having a vote on someone who is on the "to be removed from the game" list. The vote is pointless right now.

Um, reaching much? Either TMP will be removed with plenty of time remaining before the deadline, or TMP will come back and have to give me a reason to move my vote. An unvote would be just as pointless right now.


Exactly. As of right now there is no reason to have it there. If he comes back and gives nothing THEN you vote, but when he is on the list you don;t vote them (see: me avoiding the felltir bandwagon yesterday).
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:45 am UTC

So you'd rather we only voted for people who are currently active, and ignore those who have acted suspiciously, but are currently mostly inactive? Should I vote for someone who is able to respond to accusations of, to use a purely hypothetical example, muddying the waters with a largely useless FoS?
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Brooklynxman » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:17 am UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:So you'd rather we only voted for people who are currently active, and ignore those who have acted suspiciously, but are currently mostly inactive? Should I vote for someone who is able to respond to accusations of, to use a purely hypothetical example, muddying the waters with a largely useless FoS?


No, ignore those that are currently being subject to modly intervention, then turn our attention back when they show up, IF they still deserve it.

There is a reason when we focus on lurkers we typically prefer active lurkers.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Weeks » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:40 am UTC

I guess it's time for me to chime in.

I'll analyze each player (current players, so no Angua, Jebobek, Felltir, willwithskills or weiyaoli) by mentioning all their posts with content, commenting and responding as necessary. Later, I'll provide my personal opinion on each player.

__jess
Spoiler:
Speculates mainly about Rita and the kids, who I personally think should be in the game given that Cody was, and about Dexter.
Posts a whole lotta "fluff". Appears to consider the possibility of a no-lynch.
Decides to join a bandwagon, and since she doesn't think we should lynch someone about to be replaced, votes Azrael001. Very weak reasoning.
Says I could be lying and if I am it's a bold move, asks for more information. Says she doesn't have an impression on a few players and that she would reread. I'm waiting.

ameretrifle
Spoiler:
Posted some rolespec at the beginning along with the others, more than I did.
She asks for day actions on D1 here (a bit early D1).
Makes a rolespec list, maybe her role is there.
She accused Weiyaoli from a hunch (at the time, I thought he was neutral).
Said she didn't like the Az-o-wagon (which is why I guess VZ mentioned she "ties herself with Az"), and votes Felltir, not weiyaoli.
She then unvotes and votes weiyaoli.
Unvotes again and with little to say, votes wws.
Said she can see reasons to target weiyaoli, but not Angua.
Doesn't comment much on the fact that I was targeted (link). She retcons her reluctance to vote Azrael001 by saying that most of the time he gets lynched at the beginning, he's town, and that she didn't want anything to do with his lynch due to his lack of suspicious activity (according to her). Says my reasoning makes sense, but won't comment on TMT. Speculates on the kills, analyzing Angua, clarifying that the second one is most likely a SK kill, and perhaps the first is mafia.
Explains Dexter's method for killing, then saying she didn't want to draw this conclusion out loud (link).
Goes back again to speculation on the killings, says she wouldn't post an analysis of the players and that Azrael001 should post more.
Practically defends VZ ("you'd have a hard time convincing me to attack him today"). Says Tigerlion shouldn't claim (I'll analyze him and provide my own opinion). Says TMP and S_E should be worth looking at.

Azrael001
Spoiler:
Needless to say, this analysis is important.

He starts off by saying "Hello Clarice". I don't know who is Clarice.
Speculates saying that we could have a dethy or highly specific investigational powers.
He paints in a bad light those who paint Dexter in a bad light.
The post that sparks a bit of discussion. He says Jebobek's post is the most scummy of the ones he's seen, but it's not enough to think he's scum, and doesn't vote for him. Jebobek's post, to me, looks a bit iffy and is at least useless, but I don't think it was enough for a vote.
Says he prefers killing all lurkers but not lynching them. He explains why he didn't vote for him, saying he thought Jebobek might have been mafia, but after considering it more, he thought he was not mafia (!mafia). He says he could change his mind again.
Responds to Overbored, who apparently thought his post was a parody of something, saying he was serious. He says he's drawn out some scum votes. Says he votes Felltir to prevent his own lynch and doesn't think they are scummy.
Votes for WWS in order to save his az again. It's obvious he doesn't want to die.
Says Tigerlion should fully claim. In the following paragraph, he appears to disagree with TMT with some weird wording. He says he almost didn't notice that I said I have been targeted, and wasn't sure what it meant. I hope he posts his scum list soon.

Brooklynxman
Spoiler:
Says "is sounds like a bloody good time".
Thinks Dexter is at least town-friendly.
Later says Dexter is closest to a vigilante.
Says Dexter should be compelled to kill every night.
Votes Azrael001 saying if Felltir's not lynched, he'll be replaced. Just hops on the wagon without saying anything.
After 5 days, says he lost track of this. (...)
He wants to know if it was part of my role or not, but understands why I would hide it, thanks I guess? FoS'es Krong for voting someone on the modprod list...useless.
Retorts to Krong saying his vote shouldn't be there, and mentions his avoiding the bandwagon (see above).
Another post on lurkers.

Dr Ug
Spoiler:
Starts with some rolespec: thinks Dexter is town-friendly independent and that he would be obligated to kill each night. He thinks my first vote was suspicious, and so was the Felltir-wagon. I already addressed this in my previous post.
Says that out of his list of suspicious people only VZ is left (others voted for Felltir, so it's unclear what he thinks of them), saying that while he didn't like the Az-wagon either, VZ left his vote on Felltir even after he was replaced; votes for him, mentioning that it will probably give us some information about Az.
Explains to Tigerlion why his post was a power role claim.

Jar'O'Jam
Spoiler:
Says he wouldn't be surprised if the mafia are going after Dexter.
Mentions that Dexter should be part of the cops if they know each other, or at least appear as cop when investigated.
Says someone could roleclaim, slip up, or claim public investigation powers.
Think the Az wagon could be a 'giant trap', and wonders if there is a possibility of a jester...(I personally don't think a jester is probable, simply because of the type of game, and everybody seems to be overly cautious.)
Rolespecs, asking if Dexter would have a recognizable kill, then mentions that it's possible that he can only kill villains and so mods can quote the series. Right. I wouldn't ask the first if I had watched the series, and if I hadn't I don't think I'd say the latter.

Krong
Spoiler:
Says VZ was scummy for being active early, TMP for an unexplained reason, AMT for looking like trying to avoid a bandwagon.
Asks for clarification on if I have more information to share or just don't wanna post, doesn't explicitly mention that I was targeted. Then analyzes TMP's posts, saying he found TMP's first post annoying, then FoS'ing him for accusing Az without providing any real basis. He then says Tigerlion shouldn't claim because scum might leave him alive if he doesn't. Said he'd voted later and jump on a VZ bandwagon if Dr Ug started it.
Says VZ and I have been looking weird, but not anti-town. Still wanted an explanation. Comments on the bandwagons, mostly saying there's not much to gain from analyzing them...moves on to vote TMP after about two hours from his earlier post.
Responds to Brook, saying he's reaching. He thinks unvoting is pointless. I think if I wanted to vote TMP I'd do so right away, not FoS him first, but I don't think voting for TMP right now is intrinsically bad.

Overbored
Spoiler:
Speculates some. Says there might be doctors and some cops.
Says he's investigated and thinks Dexter is a vig.
Asks about antagonists for Dexter and mentions finding out about "Rita".
Asks for a role list.
Asks about killers' modi operandi. Says he won't analyze because it's making a mountain out of a molehill.
Responds to __jess's not-quite no-lynch suggestion by saying, in a nutshell, that it's not a good idea. Admits to lurking.
Says az is confusing him and that there isn't much of an option, thus his vote. "I'm just confused".
Says he understands the reasoning behind the wws lynch. Says it's possible the mafia targeted me, and he doubts I'm lying. He says Az, amt, TMT, and VZ are "maybe" the least likely to have killed weiyaoli, since usually one tries to not associate oneself that way with other players. So many maybes. Maybe you're scum. He then asks if I can elaborate on what I said about being targeted, saying he might just be "dense with [his] parsing of sentences".
In his next post, he says my comment was short and didn't have much to it. He obviously needs moar information. He then says he thinks I don't want to talk about it anymore and so doesn't press any further. Also, apparently he believes Tigerlion is a power role who slipped up, and that he shouldn't claim what he really is, but that Tigerlion is still a lynch target.

Sir_Elderberry
Spoiler:
Says Dexter is probably a vig, what a surprise!
A long post about D1.
Says the reasoning given is enough for him to vote wws, doesn't add much himself.
Says that what I said has immediate implications for me, but it can't be proven.
FoSes Tigerlion for his pseudo-claim post.

Sir_Elderberry hasn't really said much, that's for sure.

The Mighty Thesaurus
Spoiler:
First thing he actually says is that Dexter should be town.
Admits to lurking and doesn't blame me for voting him. Says Az's post is Not Quite RightTM.
Votes Az because he didn't want a no-lynch, and thinks Az is the most suspicious player.
Says wws should be punished for wanting to drag out discussion, unvotes az and votes wws. Says he agrees with VZ's analysis.
Clarifies that he still thinks Az is suspicious, but wws is more suspicious.
Says the killings suck. No way. Says the wws-wagon pinged him after it happened. Says he's getting scum-vibes from VZ for moving attention from Az to wws, of course mixed with town vibes since TMT agreed with VZ.
Seems to say mafia didn't necessarily hop on the wws-wagon. Says we could sacrifice this victory for the sake of the game. Nice sentiment.
Makes a rhetorical jab at Brooklynxman, says we should vote for anyone who is suspicious regardless of activity.

The Moo Prophet
Spoiler:
Speculates about Dexter after five days of intense lurkage, mentions what he says are little clues about people without really saying anything about them himself.
Comments on Az's reluctance to vote, says he wants clarification.
Says Az is tricksome, then says he's kidding...
Votes az because someone has to die. I can see how Krong thinks he's scummy. He should definitely come back and say something relevant.

Tigerlion
Spoiler:
Says Rita is probably a role.
Says that even though we'll probably lynch townies, we should try to lynch lurkers regardless, then disregards his own post.
Says we should wait for Az to defend himself before lynching him.
Assumes Dexter would go on a rampage or something because Cody was lynched, doesn't mention anything else.
Admits he was only speculating, then implicitly claims not to be vanilla.
He then appears to say he didn't realize he had claimed. Wow. I think I should give Tigerlion the benefit of the doubt, he can't be that lazy or distracted, right? So let's assume he's scum.

VectorZero
Spoiler:
Asks who was the victim.
Says the game hinges on Dexter's role (and that he's probably independent) and that there should be cops.
Speculates some more, mentions Harry, Lila Tournay, and Rita and her kids.
Emphasizes on Dexter not being good.
Asks for evidence for a townie Dexter.
Spec about the mafia, responding to OverBored.
Mentions again that Dexter is a SK and that he thinks he's independent.
Asks and speculates about cops' roles again.
He now clarifies that he thinks Dexter is independent, but with a town-compatibleTM win condition.
Reconsiders his position about Dexter, saying he could now be a miller vig (?). Says he's ready for a lurker lynch.
Says my voting for a 4th or 5th lurker is suspicious and that we should look back on it if I turn out scum.
Votes for Felltir, without much to say except that he's waiting for contribution from them. After his comment on my vote, his own vote looks a bit weird.
Removes his vote after the mod says Felltir's being replaced. Says he's not convinced of the Az wagon.
He posts the arguments regarding Az and accuses Angua, then comments on the bandwagon, says amt is townish but should be reviewed, says weiyaoli is slightly scummy, mainly accuses wws, and says I'm townish (thank you). At the time I agreed with most of it, obviously wws, weiyaoli and Angua were town though.
Says he's been occupied.


Phew.

Now let me draw some pre-conclusions before I go to bed. I'm not going to brand people as scum or town unless absolutely necessary, I don't trust my hunches.

__jess: Her massive lurking annoys me a little. I don't really think she's scum, but I could be wrong. I was wrong about wws. Should definitely post more or brace for a lynch.
ameretrifle: speculates and vote hops. The former is helpful, but the latter is a scum tell. Nothing definitive here.
Azrael001: he's very experienced, so I don't know what he's planning. I think he should really come by and post some though, we need help. I feel like lynching him for not being very helpful at all despite knowing so much.
Brooklynxman: Was absent, and has been very suspicious to me (especially that wagon vote).
Dr Ug: not much, he said he would analyze but didn't. Please contribute more.
Jar'O'Jam: is really weird...soon to be modkilled. If he is we don't have to waste a lynch on him, but it's unfortunate to not have a reliable read on him. He doesn't look very townie to me.
Krong: He looks neutral, and wants me to clarify...he hasn't said much yet.
OverBored: He's so unsure that I'm unsure about him. He expresses interest in my claim. I say he should be at least copped.
Sir_Elderberry: NOTHING except that FoS...it's really poor. Perhaps we should lynch.
The Mighty Thesaurus: Has avoided saying anything really accusatory, been kind of on the sidelines...I didn't like the post where he commented on the kills, it pings scum a little. He didn't say anything about me being targeted.
The Moo Prophet: Should say something before I vote for him too.
Tigerlion: What the fuck, dude. This doesn't help town at all. I don't think a single role will affect our balance too much, but I'm not sure I want to see his controversial claim to save his ass from today's lynch...I think there are better lynch targets.
VectorZero: The biggest posts, but they're not really that good on closer inspection. He's been pushing so hard against Dexter that it makes me think he actually has something against him.

So, I think good candidates are TMT, Az, and VZ (to clear some wine), then maybe amt, overbored, tmp, and finally tigerlion failing all the others.

I don't think this is all that can be said, but I should go to bed now. I'll try my best to be here tomorrow and probably cast my vote. Being here after thursday will be tough for me, so please bear with me.
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby VectorZero » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:13 pm UTC

Dr Ug wrote:So, weeks I think is at least being active, so of those I expressed suspicion of, that leaves VZ. I have reread, and he put forth a very strong argument for WWS, pulling the wagon away from Az. I must say, I didn't like the Az-wagon, so this part of his actions ping town to me. But before this, he was first to vote for me (felltir) for lurking, starting a wagon rolling (got to 4-5 votes IIRC).
Epic OMGUS dude. Different player, different day, but still OMGUS.
He didn't change this until I was replaced, even after the wagon started a'rollin.
I unvoted in my next frakking post. The wagon got to 4, we needed 10 to lynch. You were never in danger.

There is more to discuss but I'm so frakkin' tired, I'm pulling some rack time.
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby roband » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:44 pm UTC

The Moo Prophet is being replaced by ElectricHaze.

I'm sending role info now, so give him a chance to get going.

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby ElectricHaze » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:49 pm UTC

Gave the thread a read through. Heading to class now, but I will say things later.
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Weeks » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:01 pm UTC

Have Jar'O'Jam and Jebobek read their prods? I *just* realized that I had been missing Jebobek in my analysis (he's still alive and hasn't been replaced, I thought he had. I mistook him for Dromtry), but his lack of activity makes me think he won't actually come back. In any case, here goes.

Jebobek
Spoiler:
Thinks the independents are probably strong. Says he's now obtaining info about Dexter.
He says Dexter is likely to be town because he kills bad guys, and we have a finite amount of them.
Asks if Rita and the kids would suddenly come out and defend Dexter.
The useless post I mentioned earlier.
Says he doesn't want to talk so that he won't help the scum...no man, just no. You're helping them out too if you don't talk.


A case can be made to say Jebobek is scum, since he hasn't played much maybe he just prefers not to talk, but it's still a weak accusation and he's about dead anyway (has only 5 hours to be modkilled).

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby roband » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:03 pm UTC

Jebobek hasn't read his modprod. The other player has.

He will be replaced in the next few hours if he doesn't read it and post by then

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Jar'O'Jam » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:09 pm UTC

I'm just going to throw this in the air - notice how there's no follow-up on the Azrael's lynch. Which is really strange, since up until unsuccessful WWS lynch he was extremely popular. My hunch tells me that if Az is scum, some of the players who voted for him are scum as well. Maybe scum team even initiated Azrael's lynch.
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Weeks » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:46 pm UTC

...That's interesting, but do you have anything to say regarding current events?
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Jar'O'Jam » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:00 pm UTC

Current events include you ignoring every question about your "near-to-death" experience this night. Either you made a bad move and now you're trying to pretend that it didn't happen, which makes the things even worse, even though you're trying to appear helpful, or you're hiding some valuable information. What will it be ?
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Brooklynxman » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:02 pm UTC

Jar'O'Jam wrote:Current events include you ignoring every question about your "near-to-death" experience this night. Either you made a bad move and now you're trying to pretend that it didn't happen, which makes the things even worse, even though you're trying to appear helpful, or you're hiding some valuable information. What will it be ?


Actually we are collectively deciding to hide if weeks has any information to hide. As has been stated before by myself and others. We'd rather not know as a town if it was Weeks or not so scum don't know if it was weeks or not.

FOS: JoJ
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:02 pm UTC

My top three suspects are

Jar'O'Jam
VectorZero
Brooklynxman

In more or less that order. I'm at work, so I don't have time to be verbose, but I will say that I really like the form of Weeks' summation, it's easy to read, and doesn't take huge amounts of space, while containing links that are useful. Excellent work all round.

As far as knowing more than other people, I can't say that I do, though a thought has occured to me that might be interesting.

As we know, Dexter ties up his victims and tells them their sins before he kills them. It is possible then, that he has powers similar to the torturers in Deathnote, and if a person is absent, but not threatened with Modly reprobation, that they are about to die/ be released...
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby roband » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:03 pm UTC

To prevent any speculation about this aspect, I feel I should tell you that there are no post restrictions or game mechanics which prevent posting.

Players who are not posting are doing just that, and will be replaced or killed.
If you feel someone deserves a prod at any time, please point this out.

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Tigerlion » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:57 pm UTC

Couple things:


No intention to roleclaim, here. I don't exactly see the merits of it, and whatever I would claim wouldn't really have any validity.

To Weeks: Whatever. As lame as it is, I'm going to play the "I haven't played mafia for like a year and a half" card. There are certain nuances to this game that one does not pick up on instantaneously with the importance of language in posts is one of them.

Azrael001 wrote:As we know, Dexter ties up his victims and tells them their sins before he kills them. It is possible then, that he has powers similar to the torturers in Deathnote, and if a person is absent, but not threatened with Modly reprobation, that they are about to die/ be released...
This seems too difficult to implement into a game of this caliber, sort of? I suppose the easiest way to put it would be that it seems too complex of an ability.

But, I still don't really have too much in the way of an argument against someone. If I had to hoist the finger of suspicion onto an unlucky soul, then it would probably be Jar'O'Jam, for reasons stated above, the sudden appearance, and for the belligerence against Weeks.

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D1 Murder at Miami Metro

Postby LL Cool J » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:50 pm UTC

As of my last post, there were several players that were way below my radar. Jar'O'Jam, Jebobek, Sir_Elderberry, and brooklynxman. Looking now, I find the following post of Jebobek's to be fairly suspicious. I think he felt he over-stepped with the role spec stuff, but using that as an excuse to post is pretty poor. Everything he says here is very mild and non-committal.
Spoiler:
Jebobek wrote:Sorry for the MIA status for a while. I sort of took Azrael's suggestion to "shut up you're helping the scum" seriously. Not that I'm offended, but I really do think I could be helping the scum find pro-town groups. Initially I was going to jump on the Azrael bandwagon, but honestly I don't think it is deserved. I think that he tried to get discussion going and succeeded. I've read VectorZero's post and believe that WWS is doing the opposite. I think that doing a day 1 lynch in time will help reveal things for day 2, and I think WWS is more suspicious than Azrael.

VOTE: WWS
That said, what's the point in pursuing it? It's only a feeling, and he's going to be replaced anyway. That makes his replacement someone to watch.

Jar'O'Jam:
I agree that the Az lynch gathered steam very quickly and then disappeared. I don't know whether that's typical for a day one lynch (haven't played that much), but either way it's something to keep in mind. Nothing much about J'O'J's posts seems super-suspicious to me, except the post about Weeks. I do think we shouldn't push Weeks, but the way he frames things can be fairly frustrating.

Sir_Elderberry:
Has posted plausible things that I mostly agree with. I still feel like I don't really have any opinion of him: this is not good.

Brooklynxman:
Is actually pinging a little bit for me. I found the FoS on Krong to be a little over-the-top. There is no reason not to examine players who have been active and no longer are. They're just as likely to be scum as anyone else.

Weeks:
Spoiler:
- First three posts are pre-game.
- Poses questions about town power roles. Asks what Dexter's role/behaviour might be.
- Says he might be busy.
- Disputes Dexter's role as town or indy.
- More Dexter role stuff.
- Joke.
- Requests mod prod.
- Says that singling people out is as much a scum move as a town move.
- Posts a rundown of the most lurky players, votes TMT.
- Unvotes, says he was trying to start discussion not advocate lynching TMT.
- Says he does not like the bandwagon on Az. Is the third person to vote WWS. Quotes VZ as explanation.
- Snark.
- Night talk.
- Defends TMT vote. Speculates on night kills. Says he was nearly killed.
- Says he won't explain until the game gets moving.
- Posts above rundown of players.
I find Weeks suspicious but useful. Suspicious because the rundown seems vaguer on some players than others (though that's understandable, it must have been time consuming) and for phrasing things in a way that makes them unclear. Quite dismissive of J'O'J's most recent post about the Az lynch.

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Dr Ug » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:57 am UTC

VectorZero wrote:
Dr Ug wrote:So, weeks I think is at least being active, so of those I expressed suspicion of, that leaves VZ. I have reread, and he put forth a very strong argument for WWS, pulling the wagon away from Az. I must say, I didn't like the Az-wagon, so this part of his actions ping town to me. But before this, he was first to vote for me (felltir) for lurking, starting a wagon rolling (got to 4-5 votes IIRC).
Epic OMGUS dude. Different player, different day, but still OMGUS.
Yes, but it's more than that it's OMGUSFVLTLOAT (OMGUS for voting "lynch the lurker" on a townie). Sure, it's not particularly strong, and I wouldn't be averse to lynching Az instead, as in the same way that your scumminess implies his, his implies yours.

Seeing as I seem to be relatively alone in wanting to vote for VZ, let's take a look at someone else.

J'o'J seems to be drawing some flack:
Spoiler:
9 posts, mostly contentless.

First five posts were contentless, or limited rolespec - even the rolespec was fairly minimal in content.
Post 6 was a "hey, woah - don't lynch Az - it could be a trap".

No more posts during D1. So D1 he avoided giving many opinions of anyone, other than "Az may be a jester". There may be a link between Az and J'o'J. Also, he's looking a bit "active lurker"y.

Bit more rolespec in post 7, about Dexter being a vig who can only ill scum (cop+vig seems like an immensely powerful role, I would think it very unlikely to exist). Yet more active lurking.

Post 8 is surprise that no-one followed up the Az-wagon from D1. Az-scum -> Az-wagon-scum. Despite this, he still doesn't really issue an opinion, vote, FoS. It really seems like he's waiting for someone else to start something that he can follow.

Post 9 is his first strong attack against anyone - against weeks for not speculating more about his being targeted. If the kill was foiled scum-kill, this post almost seems like frustrated scum trying to decide whether to target him again tonight.
Jar'o'Jam is up there in my scumlist. Active lurking, limited opinion of others, and when expressing opinion not putting any weight behind it, and waiting for others to start wagons.


Next is tigerlion:
Spoiler:
Meaningless first couple of posts (confirming, then rolespec about rita).
Post 3 is a bit bizarre. I'm not sure if it's setting up for lurking by saying lurkers -> townies, or that we should lynch the lurkers. Anyway...

Stays of the Az-wagon to await a response. Doesn't really issue an opinion either way.
Thinks Dexter has become a SK after Cody's death.

Next up is the power-claim slip. I really do read this as a power role messing up, but I'm less convinced now that I've realised how little content he's provided other than this.
Tigerlion wrote:No intention to roleclaim, here. I don't exactly see the merits of it, and whatever I would claim wouldn't really have any validity.
I don't like this line. It almost reads "I'm scum, and I'm not claiming that" to me.
Tigerlion is suspicious for largely the same reasons. Active lurking, claiming non-vanilla, and his last post also pinging me in a non-specific way.

So, I'm quite suspicious of both J'o'J and tigerlion.

J'o'J I think is active lurking - but that's nothing new for him. He's done the same in every game I've played with him. I used to vote him early for this, but I think tigerlion is a better option. He has active lurked, and let slip that he's not vanilla town.

Unvote.

Vote: tigerlion
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D1 Murder at Miami Metro

Postby MasterOfAll » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:46 am UTC

Vote Count
Tigerlion - 1 vote (Dr Ug)
The Moo Prophet ElectricHaze - 1 vote (Krong)

(8 votes needed to lynch, or minimum of 5 at deadline)


Deadline
Less than 3 days from now.


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Jebobek is being replaced by RoadieRich. Everyone please welcome him.

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Weeks » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:50 am UTC

__jess wrote:I find Weeks suspicious but useful. Suspicious because the rundown seems vaguer on some players than others (though that's understandable, it must have been time consuming) and for phrasing things in a way that makes them unclear.
But if you have something that you want cleared up, why not say so? It's hard to analyze my own analysis.

I think Jar'O'Jam is purposefully drawing attention to himself. I don't disagree that we haven't said much about the Az-wagon, but really. "What if scum started it"? That doesn't really add anything. But he popped up just to say this (and to inquire me). That seems so scummy that I think he's just protecting a stronger scum role, but we do have to lynch scum now.

Tigerlion augh. I didn't mean to sound harsh in my earlier post, if that's what you mean. I just think you should play better regardless of the time you haven't played. Maybe read up a bit.

I forgot to mention this in my previous post, but Brooklynxman is also a viable lynch candidate, he's been looking scummy (yeah yeah, he always does, whatever).

Nobody mentioned anything re: TMT. I guess he doesn't look that scummy, but surely there's something to be said.

I really think we should clear some wine. The wine related to VZ and Az is tiring me. And while it looks like Jar'O'Jam is scum, lynching him won't reveal that much. It's sad that the town hasn't realized how close we are to losing if we keep dying. Maybe we need some security, and neither of them have provided it. I can't vote for them both, so I'll try for VZ, who, after D1, has practically vanished, leaving us in the dark.

Vote: VectorZero

At least for the moment. I would like to see things moving.
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Tigerlion » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:54 am UTC

Doc, I find your accusations somewhat frivolous.
Dr Ug wrote:I don't like this line. It almost reads "I'm scum, and I'm not claiming that" to me.
How would roleclaiming make me seem any less scummy? Am I missing something? Because it just seems to me that no one has any reason to believe my claim, so why bother making one?

Dr Ug wrote:He has active lurked, and let slip that he's not vanilla town.
My presence within the thread is not much of a basis for lynching and I haven't even been that bad. Also, I'm not vanilla town, therefore I should be lynched? What gives with that?

Look, lynching me would be a waste of a day. Because of the slip, I'm either scum or a power role. We should at least wait one night before anyone votes for me. If I die, I'll be revealed as town. If I don't, then I might be scum, because I'd be on their team, but even that argument has holes in it.

Weeks wrote:Tigerlion augh. I didn't mean to sound harsh in my earlier post, if that's what you mean. I just think you should play better regardless of the time you haven't played. Maybe read up a bit.
No worries, Ace. I thought some review on IRC would be enough, but it's a little different.

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Krong » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:56 am UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:Okay, I really would rather Weeks told us if this was a mechanism of his role or not. However, I understand the logic behind hiding it.

Brooklynxman wrote:Actually we are collectively deciding to hide if weeks has any information to hide. As has been stated before by myself and others. We'd rather not know as a town if it was Weeks or not so scum don't know if it was weeks or not.

So the first time you talk about this, you give both sides of it, but make it clear you want a Weeks claim. The second time, you FoS someone for expressing the same viewpoint, trying to pretend you didn't hold it yourself.

I think there's a good argument on either side of that, but there's no good reason for pretending that you didn't change your mind. Nor for the earlier weirdness asking me to remove my vote from someone I thought was scum. (Also, TMP now being replaced is actually a good reason to unvote... so I think I will.)

Unvote
Vote: Brooklynxman


Ninja'd by Weeks. Um. What... how much do you know? I need to read things closer apparently.
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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Krong » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:24 am UTC

Alright, I'm really struggling with you here, Weeks...
  • You've pushed very hard against lurkers every day. +
  • You've claimed to have been targeted by a kill, but it failed. +/-
  • You've posted a lot, including a very length post analysis. +
  • The post analysis had a lot of reasons to think everyone's scum... but didn't really express any opinions beyond Az probably being town. +/-
  • You've said you won't reveal more until the game picks back up... but the game's picked back up, and you're not saying whether you plan on revealing more now or not. -
  • You say JoJ is scum but that this won't reveal much, and don't vote for him. ?
  • You say that town doesn't realize how close we are to losing. ?
You're clearly trying to lead the town, here, but I don't know to what end. You voted to lynch a townie yesterday, which doesn't necessarily mean you're scummy, but it does mean you know a little less than you've seemed to indicate.

Sigh... you're playing flaky, but this doesn't feel like how you play scum at all. You've got my trust for at least another day.

Unvote
Vote: VectorZero
The answer to the question "What’s wrong with the world?" is just two words: "I am." -- G. K. Chesterton (attributed)

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Dr Ug » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:24 am UTC

Krong wrote:Sigh... you're playing flaky, but this doesn't feel like how you play scum at all. You've got my trust for at least another day.Weeks looks scummy, but I don't want to vote for him.

Oh look, a bandwagon.

Unvote
Vote: VectorZero
Fix'd that for you.

Seriously, not even a sliver of a reason? - earlier you said:
Krong wrote:Hmm. Weeks has been looking a bit weird, and so has VZ, but I don't see anything in that weirdness that looks terribly anti-town. Might help if Weeks explains what that comment about not commenting was about.
You haven't clarified anything further on VZ since that post where he doesn't look anti-town, but think weeks is worse - and yet you're not voting weeks, you're voting VZ who hasn't really said much since your last post, and you haven't said much about him?

I was going to jump back on VZ now that others were starting to vote, I was even beginning to see your arguement against BXM, but this is just too blatant 'wagoning for me.

Unvote

Vote: Krong


If you come back scum, weeks will almost certainly be getting my vote tomorrow.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Brooklynxman » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:07 am UTC

You attack me for changing my mind, then double post, voting in both posts, first an omgus on me (at least an omgus attack), and then a bw on VZ. Really?
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

Spoiler:
Image

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Krong » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:13 am UTC

I'm voting VZ on the basis of Weeks doing so, and my thinking he's town and knows something. That's pretty much the only reason why I changed my vote, and I'll straight-up admit it right now. (And realize I didn't express that out loud earlier, unfortunately.)

Also, how is it that I see one vote on VZ and go "OOH BANDWAGON HANG ON LET ME CHANGE MY VOTE BEFORE ANYONE ELSE POSTS YAY"?

Also also, why is it that you think Tigerlion's slip was a power townie revealing himself, then decide to vote for him with a vague "except now that post pinged me?"
The answer to the question "What’s wrong with the world?" is just two words: "I am." -- G. K. Chesterton (attributed)

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Krong » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:14 am UTC

EBWOP: Was directed at Dr Ug but got ninja'd, some probably applies to BXM as well.
The answer to the question "What’s wrong with the world?" is just two words: "I am." -- G. K. Chesterton (attributed)

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Brooklynxman » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:22 am UTC

Fine, attempting to form a bandwagon. Better?
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

Spoiler:
Image

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Re: Invitational - Dexterafia: D2 Treacherous Times for Town

Postby Krong » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:29 am UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:Fine, attempting to form a bandwagon. Better?

If you prefer I'll switch my vote back to you. I'd waited until you'd done two sketchy things before, but I can straight up OMGUS this time.

Also, no, it's not better, because it completely ignores my point. I'm following Weeks' vote -- feel free to judge me on that, call me stupid for doing so, tell me I'm using that as an excuse, etc. -- but at least address it.
The answer to the question "What’s wrong with the world?" is just two words: "I am." -- G. K. Chesterton (attributed)


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