Newbie DEFCON - Game Over - Town wins.

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_infina_
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Newbie DEFCON - Game Over - Town wins.

Postby _infina_ » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:06 pm UTC

All PMs must be sent to both e_e and me, including day and/or night chat.
The Mafia itself has a collective night kill.

I will keep answers to publicly asked questions here:
Questions

Spoiler:
Q:Do the scum have an NK? Or do they have to rely on nukes during the day?
A:Scum have a night kill. Town have a doctor to help mitigate this.

Q:Can you "defend" someone else?
A:No. You may only self-defend

Q:If you defend after you are attacked, is this effective?
A:Yes. In this game we're assuming that everyone has the "radar" benefit that may have only been given to one or two players otherwise - ie, you can all see who's launching nukes and where they're headed. All actions will be resolved at the end of the day. This means someone could attack you at the start of the day, and you might chose to defend toward the end of the day, but your defence would still be effective.

Q:If you defend, and are only attacked by the scum NK, do you die?
A:Yes. The scum night kill can only be blocked by the doctor. Think of it as a stealth bombing. Or spreading anthrax through your country.

Q:Can the doctor target any of the 11 players?
A:Yes. We have made no rulings against self-protection.

Q:What exactly does a miller do (in general)? Are they a recruited or assigned role?
A:A miller is an assigned role that cannot in any way be transferred or inherited. They show up as scum to cops, despite being town.

Q:Is there necessarily exactly one of each role?
A:There is not necessarily only one of each role, although there is only one of each country listed.

Q:How fast do games normally move?
A:This can actually vary quite a lot between games! Sorry if that's not a very helpful answer. Some games might be over in 2 weeks, others can last 3 months.

Q:Do we have a deadline? Will one be set at some point?
A:There is currently no deadline, but one will be set if it looks like you need encouragement to move on.

Q:In that example game, IIRC, there was no lynching, just daykills and voting for night.Is there any of that here?
A:There is lynching here, but in this game it is an acceptable strategy to vote either "no lynch" or "end day"

Q:How will this be policed? What is decided as individual claims and what constitutes mass claiming?
A:I am going to say that if half the player base (minus 1) claims in any one day, that is a massclaim. This will be more frowned upon if it is orchestrated rather than the kind of thing that just emerges spontaneously.
An individual claim would be an isolated incident where one of you decides it would be appropriate to state their country.Punishments and sanctions will be decided on a case-by-case basis, but I'm rather hoping it won't come to that.


Q:Modprod on Ragnarokio?
A:Done.


Players:
Spoiler:
2. Chandani (while I'm signed up for my third game, I'm only in two. And what is a DEFCON anyway?)
4.bobbeathomemore_people
8. negativeone (nope, no idea.)Fr4nziska
10.Rakysh (hooray for triumphant returns part 2. I promise to be better this time.)tastelikecoke
11. misterk (awesome sauce)

Dead Players
Spoiler:
1. omginbed - UK, Always Attack Town
3. mrface (not really sure what I'm getting myself into...) - Italy, Vanilla Town
5. Ragnarokiocjdrum - Spain, Vanilla Town
6. goochlifta - North Korea, Always Attack Scum
7.ZidSuperTD - Iran, Vanilla Scum
9. Dr Ug (Woo - I qualify for a Newbie Game!) - Canada, Vanilla Town

Rules
Spoiler:
Game Specific Rules:
You all hold the trigger to a nuclear warhead. Your country can only produce 1 per day. It is up to you (in most cases) whether you wish to use this warhead to defend yourself, or to attack another. To make your choice you must declare it in bold in thread.
- failing to post an action during the day will mean that you lose your action, ie, you will not be able to attack or defend.
- you cannot change your action once you have declared it.
- actions will be resolved at the end of the day.
-If you choose to attack, you don't HAVE to attack anyone. But, you can if you want. Also, if someone attacks you while you are in attack mode, you WILL die at the end of the day. Sorry. To attack just type attack: x
-If you choose to defend, you will NOT be able to attack during the day, BUT if you are attacked you will NOT die. If you are attacked a 2nd time you will die at the end of the day. The defense will happen automatically.
-There are some roles that do not get to choose if they will attack or defend.
-Unless otherwise stated, anyone who is killed by an attack will be killed and removed from the game AT THE END OF THE DAY. You can continue to post and use any actions you have before then though.
-Night will be when hammer is cast.
-A cycle is a day and the following night. ie., cycle 1 is day 1 and night 1.
-You should check here for information. But feel free to ask questions. If something isn't covered in here that I think you need to know I will gladly fill you in.

The Rules by Weeks wrote:1. You may only talk about this game in this thread and in an appropriately named spoiler in the Discussion Thread. If you are not playing this game, you may not post in this thread.
2. You may not play to lose. This will be dealt with at the mod's discretion (expect an immediate modkill if you play against your faction).
3. Do not lurk. If you no longer want to or can't play, ask the mod as soon as possible for a replacement. If there are no replacements, you must keep playing until a replacement arrives or the mod decides to modkill you.
4. You may not edit your posts.
5. You may not post your role PM, or quote verbatim from it. You may paraphrase.
6. All PMs Must include the mod.
7. Votes and questions must be posted in

bold, on a newline.

You may also ask questions to the mod in PM.
8. You may not post game content in this thread after you are dead. (You may post death flavor.)
9. You may not post game content at night. It will be easier to just not post at night.
10. The mod's decisions are final.

Roles
Spoiler:
US
UK
Spain
France
Germany
Turkey
Hezbollah
Canada
Italy
Iran
North Korea

Miller
Godfather
Doctor
Cop

Always Attack
Always Defend
Last edited by _infina_ on Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:51 pm UTC, edited 13 times in total.
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Only if your friends know what rhino dong smells like.

Malo mbwa mwitu

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_infina_
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby _infina_ » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:06 pm UTC

Rule Changes Have been Made.
Last edited by _infina_ on Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:23 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Only if your friends know what rhino dong smells like.

Malo mbwa mwitu

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby Rakysh » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:35 pm UTC

Egosearch'd. Can't wait :D

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goochlifta
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby goochlifta » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:00 am UTC

Woot! This game should be pretty fun.

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Chandani
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby Chandani » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:59 am UTC

Confirming!
I like how a terrorist organization is on the list.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby omginbd » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:11 am UTC

Got it.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby bobbeathome » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:30 am UTC

Confirming.

I'm super excited, this should be a good game.

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Ragnarokio
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby Ragnarokio » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:25 am UTC

Confirm.

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goochlifta
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby goochlifta » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:29 am UTC

Confirm.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby existential_elevator » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:46 am UTC

Modly confirming ;)

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby mister k » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:44 am UTC

confirmed
Elvish Pillager wrote:you're basically a daytime-miller: you always come up as guilty to scumdar.

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Zid
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby Zid » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:16 am UTC

confirmed

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby negativeone » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:24 pm UTC

Confirmed.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby existential_elevator » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:29 pm UTC

Just an fyi, but there are a couple of changes to the rules that hopefully _infina_ will re-post shortly. We'll let you know when the new rules are up. Please be sure to read carefully.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby Rakysh » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:15 pm UTC

Confirm'd

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mrface
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Pre-Game - The Meeting

Postby mrface » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:37 pm UTC

Confirmed.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby _infina_ » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:14 pm UTC

As the millennium draws into its second decade, global relations are being strained and a new era of world war is upon us. Upon the revelation of genuine weapons of mass destruction, NATO has decreed a state of crisis, and much of the earth is gearing up - both to defend itself, and to take out the new axis of evil.
To win this war, NATO must learn to trust its more aggressive allies, and be wary of back-stabbing countries with their own agenda. They must act together and use the best of their own abilities. They must stand brave and strong in the face of terror, and let no one country shatter their union.
War is hell.

It is now Day 1.
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Only if your friends know what rhino dong smells like.

Malo mbwa mwitu

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby existential_elevator » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:17 pm UTC

Rules have been updated in the OP. Please re-read them. Highlights include:
- All actions (except NK, cop, or doctor) to be posted in-thread and not via PM.
- If you do not post an action, you will forfeit it for the day.
- Night begins at hammer.

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mister k
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby mister k » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:55 pm UTC

wait, so we can vote for people and fire nukes at them?
Elvish Pillager wrote:you're basically a daytime-miller: you always come up as guilty to scumdar.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby existential_elevator » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:25 pm UTC

Yes. That is correct.

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mrface
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby mrface » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:55 am UTC

All right, well if no one else wants to post I guess I will. Just a few observations. Everyone else has probably figured this all as well, but maybe it'll get some discussion going. First, actions are irreversable, so unlike normal mafia, if you attack someone that's it, which means putting a lot of thought into everything you do. Second, actions are visible which means people can see if your attacking them, and potentially defend themselves. Third, attacking someone isn't a collective thing where you need half the votes. Everyone can attack anyone they want, so if we don't work together and talk things through, it's going to get pretty chaotic. Which, come to think, may be the whole point. And to the mods:

Do the scum have an NK? Or do they have to rely on nukes during the day?

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby bobbeathome » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:58 am UTC

So, let's see... if I attack someone who hasn't attacked someone yet today, then that person can choose "defend" at that point? That makes the attack potentially less powerful. But if two of us attack someone, the attack definitely goes through, right? So vigilante justice just needs a pair who agree. :)

Of course, instead of defending, the attacked person could just attack back -- I'd be wide open, since I can't defend and attack in the same day. There's almost certainly more townsfolk than mafia, though, so one townie for one mafia is a pretty good deal for town.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby negativeone » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:15 am UTC

mrface wrote:Do the scum have an NK? Or do they have to rely on nukes during the day?

_infina_ wrote:[b]All PMs must be sent to both e_e and me, including day and/or night chat.
The Mafia itself has a collective night kill.


There. Day chat? Possibility of masons. I'd think the masons, if there are, should be coordinating their daykills.

Next, 11 players means, there is about two scum. Actually, I was gonna ask if it was LYLO, but hey. What if everyone directed daykills to each other? It is most certainly MYLO/LYLO. So, MYLO/LYLO wouldn't help us estimate the scum numbers.

Oh, and about those always attack/defend roles, always attack cannot defend, and vice versa.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby mrface » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:44 am UTC

Oh, wow, completly missed that bit.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby Ragnarokio » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:11 am UTC

So attacking leaves you open to counter-attacks, which encourages using nukes carefully. If someone is attacked it is almost certain that they will defend themselves (no one wants to die), so someone that's being attacked won't be able to get killed without support from at least one other person. I wonder if its a bad idea for people to "take the game into their own hands" and use nukes instead of the regular voting system on day 1, when we don't have enough information to go off of.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby goochlifta » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:11 am UTC

I am trying to figure out the best way to get the ball rolling. Obviously no one wants to put themselves out there to be nuked so what does everyone think would be the best method to move forward?

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby existential_elevator » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:01 am UTC

mrface wrote:Do the scum have an NK? Or do they have to rely on nukes during the day?

Scum have a night kill. Town have a doctor to help mitigate this.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby mister k » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:37 pm UTC

nukes are best saved as bonus kills for town. Firing off nukes willy-nilly will only give scum a massive advantage, and will make whoeve does it look bad. Obviously some town members may be stuck on always attack mode, in which case they should certainly volunteer this information, and then we can all decide at whom they should target.
Elvish Pillager wrote:you're basically a daytime-miller: you always come up as guilty to scumdar.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby bobbeathome » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:30 pm UTC

I'm not so sure that townies stuck on "always attack" should claim, at least not right away -- the rules say that being in attack mode doesn't mean you must attack someone, just that you can't defend. I don't know if it's a good idea for everybody to know which townies are most vulnerable.

Also, I'm not sure that there are only two mafia -- three of the countries listed in the "roles" seem like possible bad guys: Hezbollah, Iran, and North Korea. Obviously the role names might not have anything to do with the actual roles, but if they do, I think we have three scum.

It's probably a good idea for any millers, if they exist, to claim early. We don't want to waste our cop, if it exists...

I guess my thinking is: if scum try to false claim miller, then we'll notice that there too many millers and we can lynch/nuke them to make finding scum easy.

This assumes that we don't have a whole lot of millers, which I guess could leave us with a lot of dead townies and no more information... What do people think?

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby Dr Ug » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:18 am UTC

Ok some thoughts on the setup.

Millers should claim D1 (now). This is not because it makes them confirmed towny by any means (scum can easily claim miller). What it does do is eliminated them from the pool of potential cop investigatees (ie it stops cops wasting their investigations on the miller - because they tell us that they would cop as town anyway). Claiming miller any time after D1 is a bit of a scumtell, as it doesn't add any trust (as I said above), and they missed the boat on giving town an advantage by their claim. So if you're a miller, claim it now.

Cops should not claim now. They should hesitate before claiming at any point. Times when they should consider claiming are when they have a positive result (scum) on someone, and that person hasn't claimed miller D1. (see why millers should claim D1?). We may or may not have a doctor, and may or may not have a cop, but this eliminates the possibility of just "following the cop" (ie getting the cop to claim and following their investigations, protecting the cop with the doctor).

As for nukes - we should all avoid attacking, on D1 at any rate (unless we're compelled to). Those who can't defend, should probably still abstain from attacking, as this early you're more likely to hit town, and if town agrees not to nuke, then scum are less likely to as well (which would give them some free kills otherwise).

I do have a couple of questions about the nukes:

Can you "defend" someone else?

If you defend after you are attacked, is this effective?

If you defend, and are only attacked by the scum NK, do you die?
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby existential_elevator » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:24 am UTC

Can you "defend" someone else?
No. You may only self-defend

If you defend after you are attacked, is this effective?
Yes. In this game we're assuming that everyone has the "radar" benefit that may have only been given to one or two players otherwise - ie, you can all see who's launching nukes and where they're headed. All actions will be resolved at the end of the day. This means someone could attack you at the start of the day, and you might chose to defend toward the end of the day, but your defence would still be effective.

If you defend, and are only attacked by the scum NK, do you die?
Yes. The scum night kill can only be blocked by the doctor. Think of it as a stealth bombing. Or spreading anthrax through your country.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby mister k » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:04 am UTC

oh ok I mis-understood only attack then. Probably not worth claiming then, as it makes them slightly larger targets. Although only slightly larger I guess- unless nukes start flying, and they shouldn't, ideally, as we are peaceful bunch. Does MAD mean nothing?
Elvish Pillager wrote:you're basically a daytime-miller: you always come up as guilty to scumdar.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby Zid » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:08 pm UTC

Can the doctor target any of the 11 players?

Since there are no roleblockers, the doctor would be safe at night if they could target themself, but that would then result in being the same as having no doctor, everyone else would then be vulnerable at night. Not that I'm saying the doctor should claim at this point, there's no need.

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Chandani
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby Chandani » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:23 pm UTC

@ Dr Ug: The role list says that there is a cop and a doctor, so I guess that means there is one? Unless you're assuming there's some sort of bastardy happening...

Also (I don't know if this a good question to ask a mod, but this is a newbie game):
What exactly does a miller do (in general)? Are they a recruited or assigned role?

The reason I'm asking this is because I have not played a game with millers yet and I'm not exactly sure how they work.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby existential_elevator » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:35 pm UTC

Can the doctor target any of the 11 players?
Yes. We have made no rulings against self-protection.

What exactly does a miller do (in general)? Are they a recruited or assigned role?
A miller is an assigned role that cannot in any way be transferred or inherited. They show up as scum to cops, despite being town.

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mrface
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby mrface » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:50 pm UTC

So it looks like we've decided millers, if there are any, should claim now, doctors and cops should keep to themselves and for now just use their best judgement of who to protect/investigate. People who can't defend still shouldn't attack anyone yet, and it seems to me it doesn't make a difference whether or not they claim since it'll be pretty obvious once we see who didn't defend at the end of the day. Scumwise no one jumps out at me as particularly scummy yet, except for omginbed, who hasn't eved posted yet.

Is there necessarily exactly one of each role?

I'm pretty sure no one has asked this yet (unless I've managed to miss important info again) and the answer could potentially save us a lot of effort.

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby goochlifta » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:42 pm UTC

It looks like it is time for me to take that leap of faith. I am the miller.

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Dr Ug
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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby Dr Ug » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:19 am UTC

Good work. So in case this needs to be pointed out - if you are a cop, don't coop goochlifta - he will definitely return a "scum" result (unless he's lying vanilla town, and thus playing very very badly).
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby Ragnarokio » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:32 am UTC

How fast do games normally move?

Do we have a deadline? Will one be set at some point?

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Re: Newbie DEFCON - Day 1 - This Means War!

Postby existential_elevator » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:09 am UTC

Is there necessarily exactly one of each role?
There is not necessarily only one of each role, although there is only one of each country listed.

How fast do games normally move?
This can actually vary quite a lot between games! Sorry if that's not a very helpful answer. Some games might be over in 2 weeks, others can last 3 months.

Do we have a deadline? Will one be set at some point?
There is currently no deadline, but one will be set if it looks like you need encouragement to move on.


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