Zoo Mafia 3: End

[Misnomer]

'Off'? I don't really consider myself as having a standard play style, so I'm not really sure how to respond to that.

As for tunneling the lynch, it was a specific question aimed at a specific person. Although I'd rather not go into the details until the question has been answered, I would like to clarify that I don't consider our decision today to actually be a Mav/Roband choice, nor do I wish to present it as such.

[roband]

I picked up on it as well. That said, it's a fairly innocuous question.

[AngrySquirrel]

One day 1 I am always in favour of lynching whoever gives us the least information (barring someone being OBVSCUM!). At the moment that is Thirdkoopa.

There is however still quite a lot of daytime left, and I'll be making notes on the rest of you as well before it ends.

[roband]

headsup: I won't be online for the last 20 or so hours before the deadline.

[webby]

1. Do you think anybody is likely to have made a falseclaim about their state of mind (either sent or recieved)? If so who?
2. Who would you rather lynch: Mav or Roband?
3. If we get no signs of life from Thirdkoopa, but the mod refuses to modkill this early, would you support a lurker lynch?

1. Unlikely, simply because it would become apparent that either they're lying or that one other person was lying. I guess it's possible if scum ended up getting a role that other scum sent in, but I don't see how they would coordinate this, or what the motivation would be. You could honestly claim the state of mind, while falseclaiming its effect.

2. Difficult, probably neither at this stage. Roband is a bit overexcited, even for him, but I think Mav seems very slightly cautious, preferring to ask the questions rather than give opinions of her own. So choice between them I'd say Mav, but probably neither. (mpolo or AngrySquirrel if I had to)

3. Not unless we really couldn't do any better. I figure at some stage he'll either turn up and we'll get some content to go off, or the mod will kill him. If he posts without content, then it will be frustrating, but I guess we'll have to lynch him. I'm not convinced we usually do much better than random on day 1, although the fact that we clearly do much better than random on day 2 suggests that discussion, votes etc. on day 1 are important, so we need targets other than lurkers. I think over-focussing on lurkers is a mild scumtell.

Notes for my (and others') reference later on the game so far:
AngrySquirrel has four posts, but not much content, just a lurker focus. More needed here.
FAOT has explained the reason for posting as he is.
Lataro has done very little except for what he's required to do by his posting restriction - uncharacteristically quiet.
Mav had fun with roband at the start of the game, but has settled down now. Hopefully that will come with some good content - so far it's mainly been questioning and looking for people's opinions rather than expressing her own.
Misnomer has been fairly active, more active than usually actually. No idea what that means, but I don't see much particularly wrong with his posting. I'm not overly concerned about the Mav/roband question - it just seems like fishing to see if I want to express suspicion of one of the two most active players.
mpolo only has two posts, the second of which admits to active-lurking, so I'm not sure what to make of that. Obviously needs more content, I think generally inactivity is a scumtell from mpolo, although he has been a bit inactive across all games lately.
roband is extremely active and seems to be having fun with the game. Nothing particularly wrong with his posts, but eventually would like more serious content.

Right now (and I'm forcing myself to say one way or the other rather than neutral):
Good: FAOT, Misnomer, roband
Not-so-good: AngrySquirrel, Lataro, Mavketl, mpolo.
Lurker: ThirdKoopa

[ForAllOfThis]

As with past zoo mafias, I expect that the mood = posting related and animal = power related. In the first one the mafia was cute, not sure if there was a theme in the second one (it was much shorter than the first)? Lots of votes flying around due to posting restrictions I think, so it would be good to make it clear how serious your vote actually is.

@Mav - To clear up the wine that was being spilled.

[roband]

Well my power has nothing to do with my 'emotion' or my animal. So I'm certainly not assuming anything.

[Misnomer]

Webby's answers were pretty contentful and contain nothing of obvious concern, so my threat is removed.

Unvote

Well my power has nothing to do with my 'emotion' or my animal. So I'm certainly not assuming anything.

Hmm, now that is interesting. My role PM explicitly linked the features of my role with both my animal and my state of mind.

Mild FoS: Roband

As I'm not at all sure I believe you.

[roband]

Ahhhhh, this is going to look like me wriggling. I just looked back and the justification for my power is tied to my emotion, despite not actually having much to do with it.
So there you go.

I'm going to get serious.

Unvote

Vote: Mav

No jokes this time around, I don't think she's playing normally. Thus, a vote.

[Mavketl]

No jokes this time around

Is that your post restriction?

Clearly I'm doing this because of all the townie cred it's giving me. No restrictions for sure.


In unrelated news, I hate to have to do this at this moment, but I'm pretty sure roband is town. He gets really transparent when he feels he's getting ribbed, and no scumminess is shining through. Not too happy with mpolo's contributions, which next to being sparse also contained strong "but there's nothing we can possibly be talking about!" vibes. Clearly TK is being even more useless, but they're just not here... which sucks, but isn't much of a scum tell. I was actually about to accuse Misnomer from half-active lurking when he made this post and he's been perfectly fine since. So kudos for the good timing and the good posting. AS hasn't been posting a whole lot, but her posts were to the point and mostly useful. Early vote gets some credit, though it's kind of a riskfree target. Not feeling particularly good about Lataro, but compared to the average SO SCUMMY gut feeling I think he's doing fairly well. webby is solidly neutral: they provided some good opinions/content, but had to be specifically pressured into doing it. Could go either way. FAOT is active and making sense, on my town list.

Speaking of a list, an estimation of town-to-scum:
roband
FAOT
AS / Misnomer
webby / Lataro
ThirdKoopa
mpolo

I expect those middle 4 to move around a lot based on future happenings.

[mpolo]

Obviously, I need to post more. I am not trying to say that there is nothing to discuss, but rather that certain avenues of discussion -- who the mafia are, for instance, will be better seen once we get some direct information. This is because of Zoo 2, where we spent a lot of unfruitful discussion (as I recall -- I'm pressed for time right now and am certainly not going to pull up an old game) on this point. Once we have some flavor to go on, then we can get a lot closer to identifying the bad guys.

Mav is pretty clearly indicating what her post restriction is without saying it right out. (Before you ask me, I've already indicated my post restriction, which is only a voting restriction.)

I understand roband's confusion there -- based on other Zoo mafias, there was some "creativity" in the link between animals and their roles, so that the combination might completely stick in one's mind. (I just remembered why I remember so little of Zoo 2 -- I was a jester and won.) In Zoo 1 I had a strange sort of "have to vote lots of people" combined with changing alignment thing going on.

Which doesn't mean much more than that there is a lot of creativity in our noble mod.

FAOT: the mafia was water-based in the second one (and the masons were tigers and some sort of honorary member).

As others have mentioned, Lataro has been rather inactive. As I have also been inactive, I certainly can't throw the first stone here.

I am happy with webby's analysis. My inactivity was due to a total mental lapse more than anything else -- I read the thread and thought I'd post later, and then didn't do so. To my horror I saw a thread that had gone more than 24 hours without a post. There is also the fact that I am a little afraid to place a vote because I have to keep it there until the end of the day.

Since the mod is involved on ThirdKoopa, I will let that pass until we here something one way or the other.

Roband and Mav had a very animated discussion, but I don't see a lot of content there.

This has been all a little "off the cuff". After lunch I can see if there's anything more incisive to say.

[roband]

Roband and Mav had a very animated discussion, but I don't see a lot of content there.

lol. I like to chat in mafia. I find that I post often enough to warrant making contentless posts, because my post rate means that there will be plenty of content at some point anyway (more than some people do with only contentful posts sometimes!).

I am half glad that Mav has me as 'the towniest as town could be' (I am town and I want everyone to think so), but my other half thinks she thinks I might be susceptible to an idea of "oh, mav thinks I'm townie, she must be town too, maybe I was wrong about her?" and change my vote.

That's not going to happen, based on current events.

[Mavketl]

roband: I don't think you're that clueless, no worries. I'm a little annoyed at your lack of understanding about POST RESTRICTIONS though.

This might be starting to get relevant:

Will TK get modkilled if they don't post before the deadline?

[roband]

Will TK get modkilled if they don't post before the deadline?

Even if they do, we will still require 5 votes to lynch. So that's something to consider, I guess.

[AngrySquirrel]

Hi peeps! I'll keep this brief cause phone is annoying. But I won't be able to post anything in a while due to being stuck at the hospital for a bit. Jfyi.

[Misnomer]

Because it might be useful to actually try and get an answer for this:

Mod: what will happen to Thirdkoopa if they fail to respond to the prod by the end of the day?
Ninjas have taken care of that.

On an unrelated note, something is bugging me about Mav's 'restriction'. Why is it that it only seems to be present in some of her posts, not all of them? Am I missing something obvious here?

Similarly with AS, her doomedness only appears in about half of her posts.

Perhaps my mafia senses have slipped into paranoid territory again, but I'm starting to smell fake posting restrictions here...

Annnyways, I'll probably start making serious votes once the Thirdkoopa issues becomes clear. In the meantime, I think I'll OMGUS Lataro.

Vote: Lataro

1. What do you think my likely motivation would be in wanting to tunnel the lynch towards Roband or Mavketl?
2. Speaking of which, who would you rather lynch out of Roband or Mavketl?
3. Of all the restrictions declared so far, which do you think is the most believable? And which is the least?

[Mavketl]

I asked because if they will be modkilled, I can stop considering to vote for them. I'd be most happy with a TK or mpolo lynch - even in that last post there really wasn't much substance.It's also really annoying that he says "I will make a better post RIGHT BEFORE THE DEADLINE", because on one hand I want to give him a chance but on the other hand...
1) same as I said about webby: if you have to pressure someone into posting any content, that's not a good sign
2) it's getting to that point where people will vote and not get back online before the deadline

Wait, stop, I'm apparently mixing up my games as far as deadlines are concerned. I thought it was tonight >.>

Alright, so the only thing from that that still stands is that if you have to pressure people into posting content, that's not good.

Similarly with AS, her doomedness only appears in about half of her posts.

If previous Zoo games are any indication, not every post has to include whatever is in the restriction. FAOT, for instance, doesn't have to vote in every post. I don't think e_e had to snark in every post when she was snarky in zoo 2? Don't remember the details though. I'm sure there are other examples.


AS: I hope you are/will be well.

[roband]

AS: I hope you are/will be well.

Very much this.

Mav, deadline for THIS game is a few days away yet Also, mpolo said he'd be back after lunch which only indicates a couple of hours at most.
Assuming for which deadline you got confused with, 2 hours out of 8 or 9 isn't much.

[Misnomer]

AS: I hope you are/will be well.

Very much this.

Ditto

Similarly with AS, her doomedness only appears in about half of her posts.

If previous Zoo games are any indication, not every post has to include whatever is in the restriction. FAOT, for instance, doesn't have to vote in every post. I don't think e_e had to snark in every post when she was snarky in zoo 2? Don't remember the details though. I'm sure there are other examples.

Hmmm, I see...

*scurries off to research the past games*

[ForAllOfThis]

Content = good with chocolate covered sprinkles. Using votes to encourage content is weird but it's working so I can swiftly move on from that. We should let the mod deal with TK. I don't think anyone will bandwagon AS so..

Unvote
Vote: AS

I think there might be more to the back and forth between Mav and Roband we are seeing, but arguing that they are not posting content mpolo is contended now (although a lot of that content has been post-mention from mpolo).

Can I ask what is with all the crossing out? Looking at this page reminds me of my primary school work.

[roband]

Can I ask what is with all the crossing out? Looking at this page reminds me of my primary school work.

I reckon my teacher fancied me. She always left kisses at the end of each question when she marked them...

[mpolo]

A first bit of information from re-reading:

Lataro: flabbergasted (sent relentless)
webby: cowardly (sent patient)
Mavketl: hallucinogenic (sent gloomy)
mpolo: relentless (sent pious)
roband: pious (sent hyperactive)
AS: gloomy (sent flabbergasted)
Misnomer:patient (sent passive-aggressive)
FAOT: hyperactive (sent hallucinogenic)

implies
ThirdKoopa: passive-aggressive (sent cowardly)

That may mean that TK isn't allowed to post very often, but is a vig (or scum or something). I'm certainly not advocating going after somebody based on this, but thought it would be useful to have this all in one place.

[roband]

Which indicates not posting often, passive-aggressive or cowardly?

Passive, sure, could be a restriction on how often he posts, but not passive-aggressive. That's more like threatening people but not voting for them, or similar.

Cowardly would be saying someone scares them in each post?

Mod, can you tell us if TK has read their role PM?

[mpolo]

I realized in re-reading that Lataro had already done my little table -- but better.

Notes:

Spoiler:

Starting on Page 2

roband: claiming animals might not be good. Because of the requirement to include three mods in scumchat, there can't be more than 3 in the mafia. musing about unusual mechanics. pushes on Mav for not revealing her restriction. Unmotivated? vote on Misnomer. Followed by two more votes. Content is important. Will be out near deadline. power not related to emotion. Doch. Mav not playing normally. Worries that Mav is trying to win him over based on calling him townie.
FAOT: starts vote roulette. has to have short posts, one vote per 48 hours. mood=posting, animal=power.
AS: votes lurker. Restriction is only to posting. TK is still lurking. Stuck at the hospital.
Lataro: compiled the list I just did. Curses anyone who votes him. Misnomer seems off, asks about his Mav or roband to lynch question.
Mav: says she has no restriction. FAOT caved to a tiny IGMEOY. No vote power/restriction. What to do if TK posts non-content? Analysis/ranking. Complains about my wanting to come back later. Zoo restrictions are often not for every post.
Misnomer: FAOT's claimed restriction is similar to earlier zoo. Qs for webby. WOuld support lynch of people without content. I have no style, so I'm not off. Question was for a specific person for a specific reason. webby's answers looks reasonable. Unvotes webby. OMGUS Lataro. Questions for Lataro. Some restrictions come and go.
webby: Answers questions, looks reasonable.

I was thinking that maybe TK is passive (few posts), yet aggressive (attacks at night). Probably a stretch. More likely, he's not around.

Best wishes for AngrySquirrel (or whomever you are accompanying in the hospital).

Comments on restrictions:
Lataro seems to be flabbergasted whenever anyone votes for him.
webby - I don't see where cowardly comes into anything we have seen
Mavketl - thinks she's seeing things in other people's posts
mpolo - can't change his vote
roband - no signs in his posting. More active than usual, very chatty, but not really out of the normal, either. If an emotion were going to indicate alignment, his would likely do so, unless there's an Inquisition going on, but I doubt we will have any so easy.
AngrySquirrel - clearly shows gloom
Misnomer - always asks questions after placing a vote to give the person a second chance? Because he's patient?
FAOT - votes at least once every 48 hours, can't vote the same person twice in a day, short posts.
ThirdKoopa - not there

As to scumminess:

I concur that roband has seemed quite townie.
Lataro seems to be more or less townie, but he is often more aggressive as town.
FAOT is hard to read because of vote roulette, but I don't have any real tells from him. His assumption that mood implies restrictions and animal implies power could be interesting for the analysis of his role (as I presume his role is that way), but doesn't necessarily apply to everybody.
Mavketl seems different than usual. Less forthcoming, less content in general. But she has produced content, and I'm not so far as to call her really scummy.
Misnomer has been participating, points out that FAOT is very similar to previous powers.
webby has few posts. His one big one is pretty good, though.

Which gives me a ranking something like:
TOWN
roband

LEAN TOWN
FAOT
Misnomer

NEUTRAL
Mavketl
AS
webby
Lataro

LURKER
ThirdKoopa

The people within a particular group are more or less interchangeable. I'm in the situation where nobody is just crying out for me to place my vote on them (metaphorically speaking). Being unable to change my vote, I had better wait until tomorrow or so on my vote.

[Misnomer]

Misnomer - always asks questions after placing a vote to give the person a second chance? Because he's patient?

That's not a restriction, just a play style I tend to adopt when I'm struggling to get a feel of the game, and when I feel people could be producing more content.

[weiyaoli]

I hope you are well AS.

We have a replacement lined up as far as I can tell. So TK will probably be replaced as and when Silknor decides so. (most likely when he gets on and confirms the replacement is still able to play)

Votals:
Lataro (1): Misnomer
AngrySquirrel (1): FAOT
Thirdkoopa (1): AngrySquirrel
Mavketl (1): Roband
Misnomer (1): Lataro

9 players, 5 to lynch. 48 hours left in D1.

[Silknor]

Waiting on a confirmation from the replacement.

[roband]

Do you deem 48 hours long enough for a new player to come into the game have to 'prove themselves'?
What I'm basically asking is, are we going to get an extension as well? Ta

[Silknor]

DaBigCheez has replaced Thirdkoopa.

New Deadline is set for Sunday 10PM PST, 60 hours from now.

[DaBigCheez]

Hey guys, nice to meetcha.

Not a super-big fan of the emotional massclaim, but I suppose as long as everyone else is doing it I might as well go along...

Confirming I sent cowardly and received passive-aggressive.

In the coming hours, will read thread more closely and see what I can see. (No, I am not breadcrumbing an animal with powerful eyesight.)

[roband]

Hey DBC. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts

[webby]

Excellent, a replacement and an extension!

Some thoughts on the night's posts - mpolo, my cowardly hasn't come into anything that's happened so far in the game. I'm reluctant to claim what it does because I think it would only help scum. Speaking of which, mpolo has posted better recently, so I'll have to find a new target. Lataro and Mav are probably my first two candidates based on my last post.

Mav's analysis was basically in agreement with mine and I agree with her about roband being townie. I don't think that necessarily makes Mav town though, I'll have to look back to see if there's weirdness that can't be explained simply by her posting restriction.

For now though, Lataro is clearly the player playing most different from usual. Hopefully this will help make him come back and give us some actual content:

Vote: Lataro

[roband]

Unvote

Ffs. Mav, I never thought you were scummy. I was trying to start a crappy bandwagon to see who jumped on. No-one did.

I'm going to re-read.

[roband]

DBC - post or vote restrictions? Let us know ASAP please.

I am going to vote Lataro and FOS FAOT.

Vote: Lataro
FOS: FAOT

Lataro is not as bold as normal. Town Lataro has no reason to not be bold. Town Lataro is always bold. Something is different here.

FAOT has posted quite a lot. But said barely anything. Regarding links, he also voted for Lataro second (first would be too obvious if he got killed and revealed to be scum) which I think could effectively link these two players. The linking is a secondary point, however, mainly the FOS is for active lurking IMO.

[roband]

For the record, I'd vote FAOT if others preferred.

[Mavketl]

Unvote

Ffs. Mav, I never thought you were scummy. I was trying to start a crappy bandwagon to see who jumped on. No-one did.

That's what I was hoping for. But I wasn't sure.

I'm not really seeing the FAOT hate. Okay, he's not filing any large analysis reports, but his (shortish) posts don't necessarily look like scum desperately trying to generate fake content. I would like to hear from him if the short-posts-only thing is because of a POST RESTRICTION or just... because.

As for Lataro... I think I'll await his response before judging.

[roband]

I'm not really seeing the FAOT hate. Okay, he's not filing any large analysis reports, but his (shortish) posts don't necessarily look like scum desperately trying to generate fake content. I would like to hear from him if the short-posts-only thing is because of a POST RESTRICTION or just... because..

He said it was post restriction related. But you can still put content into short posts. I don't think he's done that.

[roband]

Oh, I had another point about Lataro which I didn't mention for some reason. Rather than waiting for a consensus on claiming emotions, he dived in and effectively made is so that the rest of us might as well do the same. That is normal Lataro. It's also a bit scummy. Not for wanting to do it, but for doing it without waiting to hear from others.

[Mavketl]

I kind of feel like you can't have it both ways. Basically you're saying Lataro is scum for
1) acting like he normally does - in a scummy way
2) not acting like he normally does - which makes it scummy
In that kind of argument, Lataro is always scum. Might be a bit harsh.

Normally I give Lataro a lot of crap for playing like an arrogant dork/loose cannon/wine-spreading monster when he's town (and scum), and he's not really doing that in this game. Then again, inactivity is also not a great thing, hence my plan to wait for his response before making up my mind.

[roband]

Wanting to claim is normal Lataro. It's the only thing normal about him in this game so far.
Also, not giving people the option is normal as well, but I don't like it.

The rest of the game he's been floating along not doing much. He's made about 3 serious posts.