Gargoyles Mafia - Game Over: Xanatos Gambit (Scum Win)

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DaBigCheez
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Gargoyles Mafia - Game Over: Xanatos Gambit (Scum Win)

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon May 07, 2012 11:03 pm UTC

Players:
Spoiler:
1. Flarpfreak Lynched N4 - Elisa Maza (Doctor), Manhattan Clan, Human
2. BoomFrog
3. Matt96 Killed D2 - Matt Bluestone (Illuminati Exposer), Manhattan Clan, Human
4. CaptainFinglass
5. Snark
6. Lataro Replaced by wam Lynched N2 - Brooklyn (Watcher), Manhattan Clan, Gargoyle
7. JesseScottOwen Killed D3 - Broadway (Roleblocker), Manhattan Clan, Gargoyle
8. mpolo
9. Mostlynormal Killed D4 - Hudson (Racecop), Manhattan Clan, Gargoyle
10. UniqueScreenname
11. KrO2 Killed D2 - Talon/Derek Maza (Paranoid Alignment Cop), Manhattan Clan, Mutate
12. fearless Lynched N1 - Owen (Roleblocker), Xanatos Enterprises, Human
13. ahammel Died N3 - Macbeth (Immortal Lyncher), Lyncher for Demona, Human
14. CareyHammer Lynched N3 - Demona (Immortal Serial Killer), Serial Killer, Gargoyle (Appears Human)

Replacements:
1. wam Replaced in for Lataro
2.
3.


Gargoyles Specific Rules:
Spoiler:
1. "Night" is the phase in which there's in-thread discussion and people are voted for, usually leading to a lynch at the end of the phase. "Day" is the phase in which no player may post to the thread, and in which actions are submitted via PM to the mod. This is the reverse of what is commonly used for Mafia, and is a consequence of the flavor being used - please try to avoid getting tripped up by it.
2. If the vote is tied at the end of the Night, there will be no lynch.
3. If the vote is not tied at the end of the Night but there is no hammer, the player with a plurality of the votes will be lynched, regardless of the size of that plurality.
4. This is a Turbo game. Please try to post at least once per day, ideally more. Players will be issued only a single low-activity warning, and will be replaced if their activity does not meet the level expected of them. This is subjective and at the mod's discretion - please do not abuse mod goodwill. No explicit sanctions will be given regarding votes or actions for low-activity players. Please inform the mod if you'll be unable to post for an extended period of time.
5. Deadlines are strict. Extensions may be granted if necessary, but any votes or actions submitted after a deadline will not be counted, even if the mod is not around to declare the Night/Day over when the deadline passes.
6. Roles have been assigned via random.org.
7. No role is guaranteed to be sane.
8. For all intents and purposes, Day actions are processed as if occurring the day, despite the fact that flavor will imply them as happening during the last few minutes of the Night - this is a handwave due to the flavor, don't think too hard about it. (Nor about the fact that this isn't really a "rule".)
9. There is no form of Listener or spoiler-reading role in this game. If you have any form of private communications, they will be read only by the intended recipients, and no living players may read spoilers in the discussion thread under any circumstances, unless that spoiler is directed at them (with a "[Playername] may read" in the title) by a player outside the game and communicates no game-relevant information. Use of these types of directed spoilers should be kept to a minimum, I'm just not going to try and prevent it since I know it's something people do.
10. The rules may be expanded upon at any time to bring understanding to any mod rulings. The mod will make sure to draw attention to any rule changes or clarifications, and once a ruling has been made, it will be abided by to the best of the mod's ability.


Standard Mafia Rules:
Spoiler:
1. Do not discuss the game outside this thread, unless in appropriately-marked spoilers in the discussion thread. Spoilers should be marked "Gargoyles" or "Gargoyles Mafia" so that other players do not accidentally read them (see rule 2).
2. Spoilers for this game cannot be read unless you are dead.
3. You may not post verbatim or quote from your role PM. Paraphrasing is fine.
4. Votes and Unvotes must be in bold, on a new line, containing the word "Vote" and the player you're voting for. For example,

Vote: DaBigCheez

Improperly formatted votes will not be counted.
5. You only have one vote. If you have already voted that Night, you must first unvote before voting again. Unvotes must also be in bold, on a new line:

Unvote

You may unvote and vote a new player in the same post.
6. Non-players should not post in the game thread.
7. If you are a player, you may NOT edit your posts under any circumstances. If you want to correct a typo or add on to a previous post, make a new post and preface it with "EBWOP" (Edit By Way Of Post).
8. Once the mod declares day has begun, you may not post in the thread for any reason until night is declared.
9. You may not post in the thread after you die, with the exception of a single post to say something along the lines of "Bah, you got me" if you so wish. No actual information may be communicated with this post.
10. Once a player has been "hammered", with a majority of the votes on that specific player as specified by the mod at the start of that Night, the Night ends immediately, even if the mod is unavailable to make a Night-end post at that time. Do not post after the Night ends.
11. If there are not sufficient votes for a hammer, the Night will end immediately at the stated deadline as specified by the mod at the start of that Night. Do not post after the Night ends.
12. The rules may be expanded upon at any time to bring understanding to any mod rulings. The mod will make sure to draw attention to any rule changes or clarifications, and once a ruling has been made, it will be abided by to the best of the mod's ability.
Last edited by DaBigCheez on Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:01 pm UTC, edited 22 times in total.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Pregame

Postby UniqueScreenname » Mon May 07, 2012 11:06 pm UTC

I'm Eastern time, so any American time zone will be really easy for me to figure out. But there's always Google, so whatever.
PolakoVoador wrote:Pizza is never a question, pizza is always the answer.
poxic wrote:When we're stuck, flailing, and afraid, that's usually when we're running into the limitations of our old ways of doing things. Something new is being born. Stick around and find out what it is.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Pregame

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon May 07, 2012 11:09 pm UTC

Was more a question of whether people will be awake :P
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Pregame

Postby UniqueScreenname » Mon May 07, 2012 11:48 pm UTC

Ha, that makes more sense.
PolakoVoador wrote:Pizza is never a question, pizza is always the answer.
poxic wrote:When we're stuck, flailing, and afraid, that's usually when we're running into the limitations of our old ways of doing things. Something new is being born. Stick around and find out what it is.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Pregame

Postby JesseScottOwen » Tue May 08, 2012 1:05 am UTC

I know why DaBigCheez is modding this game. He's guaranteed to survive past Night 1. :)
"And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Pregame

Postby flarpfreak » Tue May 08, 2012 1:44 am UTC

The times are sort of dicey because I have school over the deadlines, I can make it work, but an hour or two later would be ideal. If everyone else likes the current times, that's totally cool too.
Wait, what?

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Pregame

Postby KrO2 » Tue May 08, 2012 2:25 am UTC

I'm in the US Pacific timezone, so that suggestion, or slightly later, would work for me. Also, I'm totally town.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue May 08, 2012 3:39 am UTC

"It's too quiet in here..."

The Manhattan Clan slowly prowls through the deserted Pack Media Studios building, sticking to the shadows cast by the few illuminated spotlights. An anonymous tip has brought them here tonight, investigating the claim that an unspecified someone was up to no good.

"I don't like it. I think this is a trap..."
"Of course it's a trap, we already knew that. But a trap from who?"

There's a loud crash and the tinkling of shattered glass as several somethings - or someones - crash in through the windows. A laser blast crosses the room and blasts a boom mic to cinders as the Clan instinctively scatters and gets ready to battle -

And then the lights suddenly cut out, plunging the room into total darkness.

As the room's occupants react to the sudden change, the enormous television screen taking up a wall of the Studios lights up, everyone's eyes instinctively drawn to it as it shows the familiar face of Demona, intoning ominously as her words reverberate through the room:

"Vos omnes spectores auditoreque, in aliis vos repercussos videte!”

A blinding flash of light fills the room; it quickly fades, the room returning to darkness for a few moments before the spotlights turn back on, filling the room with enough light to see an unexpected sight.

Each of those in the room saw...well...themselves. And entirely too many of themselves, at that: there were fourteen of them, now, and there certainly hadn't been that many of the Clan when they came in! It was clear that some of their uninvited visitors were using the spell to disguise themselves as the Clan - but how could they tell these impostors from the real thing?

It was swiftly agreed that they couldn't trust one another, and would split up each dawn, none informing the others of their roost, in order to keep them safe from the impostors during their stone sleep. And yet, the problem wasn't going away on its own - they needed to root out the impostors in their midst. It was time to dispense justice to these interlopers...Gargoyle justice.




Role PMs are being sent out now. Night 1 will begin soon.
Last edited by DaBigCheez on Tue May 08, 2012 4:06 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Pregame

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue May 08, 2012 4:05 am UTC

Role PMs are out, and Night 1 now begins.

There is no need to confirm in thread - you may post immediately if you have received your Role PM.

All players should have received their Role PM. If you have not received one, or if you have any questions about your role, please PM me.

Please read the rules in the OP prior to posting. Re-read them if you have read them during the Pregame, as some rules have been added.



It is now Night 1.
Night 1 will end on Friday, May 11 at 16:00 PDT (23:00 GMT), approximately 91 hours from now. Future Nights will be a full 96 hours; this shorter Night is to sync up deadlines without waiting for next week.

14 players alive, 8 to lynch.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby UniqueScreenname » Tue May 08, 2012 5:05 am UTC

First one: Woohoo!

Only thing I really noticed from the rules that concerns me is "No role is guaranteed to be sane." :|
PolakoVoador wrote:Pizza is never a question, pizza is always the answer.
poxic wrote:When we're stuck, flailing, and afraid, that's usually when we're running into the limitations of our old ways of doing things. Something new is being born. Stick around and find out what it is.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby KrO2 » Tue May 08, 2012 5:23 am UTC

The wiki seems to imply that sanity is only really an attribute of cops. So can we expect loads and loads of questionable cops, or is there such a thing as, say, an insane doctor? Insane tracker or watcher could probably be possible, but I haven't thought of any way for that to work off the top of my head.

Is the following stupid: We ask all cops to investigate themselves, so if they get a guilty verdict they know they are either Insane or Paranoid, and use that to narrow down the logic puzzle. We could also (following that, maybe?) ask them to investigate the same person, banking on there being at least one doctor to protect that person, and then that should work to tell us the sanities of the cops.
The most obvious way this could fail that I can think of is that it assumes there are loads of cops, which is at this point a complete guess based on the "sanity not guaranteed" clause.
The second part also might involve a lot of cops outing themselves on day 3 at the latest, which would suck for obvious reasons.

Another extrapolation from the sanity line: We might have a miller. The wiki says that if you know a sane cop result will return guilty on you even though you're town, then a) that sucks and b) you should probably claim right away unless you're confident that you can play well enough for nobody to bother investigating you. A claimed miller could also really help a cop determine sanity safely without claiming. Investigate miller + investigate self gives known sanity at the cost of two investigations.

Also, there I go again obsessing about cops.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby fearless » Tue May 08, 2012 6:36 am UTC

I've never watched the series and so, won't be much help ito flavours. Just because it said roles are not guaranteed to be sane doesn't mean we definitely have roles which are insane. I think it's unlikely to have many insane cops in a game this size - from the wiki-page: "In trying to adjust to their new world they are aided by a sympathetic NYPD officer, Elisa Maza,". I think this suggests that the cop is sane. I suppose it doesn't hurt to investigate oneself first and I don't think there are rules against targeting oneself. Still, I'd rather that we don't waste an investigation.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby mpolo » Tue May 08, 2012 8:36 am UTC

Occasionally, there is an insane doctor (thinks he's healing, but isn't; or actually kills the person he's "protecting"), but it would be right to say that investigative roles are more likely to be insane.

Demona wrote:Vos omnes spectores auditoreque, in aliis vos repercussos videte!


I'm assuming that that should be "auditoresque".

Translation: All you observers and hearers, see yourselves reflected in the others.

[That may be well-known flavor, but being flavor-blind, I had to translate it.]
Image <-- Evil experiment

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 08, 2012 8:40 am UTC

Off the top of my head I only remember a few characters so I want to check out the wiki before doing any rolespec. However as a mod I have been pondering non-sane roles besides cop quite a bit. Also, DBC's last game demonstrated that he's a push the envelope kinda mod, so there could be for example only one cop and she is naive. (All results are innocent).

Any role can be made naive by simply having the power say it works but it does nothing. Basically you have a fake action. I could imagine an insane doctor who kills his target, a paranoid tracker who always gets the result that their target visited someone who died that day. Maybe an insane roleblocker who makes his target unstoppable?

I would defiantly not assume we have a boat-full of cops. And even if we do it's better to target someone normally D1 and they target yourself D2, instead of vice versa so at least you have some potentially useful info N2. Targeting yourself first will never give you something actually useful.

Kro2: Where did you get your idea that cops should self-target? Have you played a game before where that was done?
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 08, 2012 8:41 am UTC

EBWOP for potentially confusing typo:
And even if we do it's better to target someone normally D1 and then target yourself D2
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby Snark » Tue May 08, 2012 12:35 pm UTC

No point in discussing something that can possibly be fixed for us.

Can cops target themselves?

BoomFrog wrote:And even if we do it's better to target someone normally D1 and then target yourself D2

I think it yields about the same amount of info either way. If you investigate yourself and get scum, then you can hint at non-sanity the next day in thread. If you investigate someone else, you have to guess at the likelihood of various levels of sanity (sane, insane, naive, and paranoid) before being able to discern anything about your target. Unless flavor indicates that you're very likely to be sane or very likely to be insane, copping someone else first is about as equally useless as copping yourself first.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby UniqueScreenname » Tue May 08, 2012 12:52 pm UTC

No flavor info here. From looking over the wiki page, it appears that the setting is broad enough for pretty much any of the roles. I would imagine a jester to be likely since it was a kids show and there's plenty of magic involved. That would definitely go well with the insane role thing too.
PolakoVoador wrote:Pizza is never a question, pizza is always the answer.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby careyhammer » Tue May 08, 2012 2:50 pm UTC

My first game, and i never heard of Gargoyles before. Is the show on dvd or on demand anywhere?
DUCK!

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby JesseScottOwen » Tue May 08, 2012 3:10 pm UTC

Not a speck of flavor knowledge, except for some brief browsing of the wiki. Which brings me to:

Why are Bronx and Brooklyn members of the Manhattan clan? That makes no sense.
"And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue May 08, 2012 3:33 pm UTC

Snark wrote:Can cops target themselves?


This is a closed setup. No comment on this will be made in thread.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby KrO2 » Tue May 08, 2012 5:48 pm UTC

@BoomFrog: I haven't played with insanity before; that came from a game I read before I started playing. This one, I think. Actually, that's probably where I got the "boatload of cops" idea as well.
I can't think of any difference between targeting self first or second, except that the other person might get killed while you're targeting yourself if you do yourself second. Which would seem to be a reason to get the wasted investigation over with first.

But any guilty result without a confirmed result to compare it to should not be instantly trusted. So maybe the cop shouldn't claim right away after a guilty verdict, and check herself to verify it? Or if she has opposite verdicts on people where one is the epitome of towniness and the other is in danger of being lynched, she can probably guess which means what.

It would be really funny if there were actually no insanity at all, and DBC just said that because it's awesome and technically true.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue May 08, 2012 7:10 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:
Snark wrote:Can cops target themselves?


This is a closed setup. No comment on this will be made in thread.


After some consideration, I will provide a small clarification. My amended answer is below.

This is a closed setup. All information about a player's role is provided to them in the form of their Role PM. The mod will not discuss role information in thread, with the exception of the role reveal at Nightfall after a player is killed.

Any power in your Role PM which does not explicitly say that it cannot be used on yourself may be self-targeted.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby JesseScottOwen » Tue May 08, 2012 7:56 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:
DaBigCheez wrote:
Snark wrote:Can cops target themselves?


This is a closed setup. No comment on this will be made in thread.


After some consideration, I will provide a small clarification. My amended answer is below.

This is a closed setup. All information about a player's role is provided to them in the form of their Role PM. The mod will not discuss role information in thread, with the exception of the role reveal at Nightfall after a player is killed.

Any power in your Role PM which does not explicitly say that it cannot be used on yourself may be self-targeted.


Watch confusion ensue when any and all roleblockers try to roleblock themselves. :)
"And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

I'm giving up smiling for Lent. Not really.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby Mostlynormal » Tue May 08, 2012 10:52 pm UTC

I'm also flavorblind, though I spent a bit of time on the wiki already.

The sanity could be entirely a red herring, but I'd reccomend that any power roles take whatever steps necessary to determine their sanity. That way later in the game we don't get some information from someone and spill a bunch of wine over "well maybe they were insane!"

One thing I noticed was that I received two defining traits, my alignment (Manhattan Clan, if you're curious), and my race (not going to say which out of caution). It could just be flavor, but it was put in bold on the same line as my alignment, which makes me think race could have relevance to the game. One thing to keep in mind is that there are evil Gargoyles and Manhattan Clan aligned humans, so race != alignment.

Another thing I noticed was that my win condition was eliminating all anti-town or making the elimination of anti-town inevitable. That surprised me because usually the elimination of scum is never inevitable until the last one dies. This could indicate weird mechanics, or it could just be legalism (similar to the "no role is guaranteed to be sane" thing), but I thought I'd point it out.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby flarpfreak » Tue May 08, 2012 11:20 pm UTC

My only concern with this checking your roles sanity thing is that unless the results are public, someone could easily claim that they checked and/or didn't check the sanity of their results. If the results were made public, that would be bad as then the scum knows who has what abilities...not saying don't do it, just saying there is still a lot of room for doubt.
Wait, what?

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby CaptainFinglass » Tue May 08, 2012 11:42 pm UTC

Completely flavour blind! Thank goodness for the wiki.

On the topic of sane/insane roles, I think using caution in your results would be a good idea, but I don't think everyone should try and use it on themselves on D1 (Night and Day are reversed so D1 = N1 usually, I think. I'm confused already :P), because then we will not have so much as speculation on N2. If, however, whatever cop(s) etc we have use it on a random person, we can at least have speculation for N2, which can be checked by them checking themselves on D2.

I think that makes sense, but if not, I will happily try and clarify upon request.

flarpfreak also makes a good point about simply claiming you checked when in reality you haven't. The possibilty of insane roles is definitely going to lead to at least a few fake claims, and a lot of wine.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby flarpfreak » Wed May 09, 2012 3:31 am UTC

I wonder if the sanity of a role was determined by random.org too
Wait, what?

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby UniqueScreenname » Wed May 09, 2012 4:07 am UTC

Heads up: probably won't be around a lot tomorrow. My only internet access will be my phone, so I may not be available.
PolakoVoador wrote:Pizza is never a question, pizza is always the answer.
poxic wrote:When we're stuck, flailing, and afraid, that's usually when we're running into the limitations of our old ways of doing things. Something new is being born. Stick around and find out what it is.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby Mostlynormal » Wed May 09, 2012 12:38 pm UTC

We don't have to worry about people lying about checking as much as lying about having a role. If someone's town, they're not going to lie about checking because it hurts them, and if they're scum they're going to be lying about the results anyway. So it's always a good idea to not immediately trust a claim, but once you trust the claim, you can trust that they're telling the truth about sanity.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby BoomFrog » Wed May 09, 2012 1:57 pm UTC

We're halfway through N1 and half the players haven't even posted yet. Come on people this is a turbo.

On sanity, investigating yourself only disproves insanity. I'd recommend cops investigate normally until the get a scum result. Then if you feel you may be insane investigate yourself the next night. You are wasting any nights compared to other stratagies, but if one of your previous investigations dies you can confirm your sanity without self-investigating. I'm not seeing any benifit to self-investigating first.

I do think most roles are going to be sane though so we should *mostly* ignore the possibility of insane roles.

Now then, let's get into the real part of D1 N1. Making mountains out of molehills:

1. Flarpfreak - Posts when discussion is stagnate, trying to get things going in his noobie sort of way - townie
3. Matt96 - Hasn't posted needs modprod - undecided
4. CaptainFinglass - resonable and middle of the road content. - neutral
5. Snark - Minimal content, I expect more from him - scummy
6. Lataro - You're in this game, wtf?
7. JesseScottOwen - Since I doubt he bothered checking the wiki, I think his comment is directly related to his role, so I'm guessing he's town.
8. mpolo - neutral as always
9. Mostlynormal - Comments about his win condition wording, either scum we're givin sample town PM's or he is actually town. - I'll come back to this later
10. UniqueScreenname - Why would Magic in the show make you think there is a Jester? - Judgement postponed
11. KrO2 - Seems sincere - town
12. fearless - suggests to self-investigate in a trying not to actually push for it way - scummy
13. ahammel - needs modprod
14. CareyHammer - supernew - Please share your opinion or ask questions about the current topics of conversation. Don't be afraid of making mistakes, the biggest mistake is selfcensoring.

So...

Vote: Fearless
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby careyhammer » Wed May 09, 2012 2:27 pm UTC

Here's some questions:

When a cop investigates someone are the results posted to the thread by the mod, or are the results PM'd back to the cop to post to the thread himself?

Are there any other roles that could be insane?
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby Snark » Wed May 09, 2012 2:35 pm UTC

careyhammer wrote:Here's some questions:

When a cop investigates someone are the results posted to the thread by the mod, or are the results PM'd back to the cop to post to the thread himself?

Are there any other roles that could be insane?


PM'd is standard. Never heard of it being done otherwise.

BoomFrog wrote:I could imagine an insane doctor who kills his target, a paranoid tracker who always gets the result that their target visited someone who died that day. Maybe an insane roleblocker who makes his target unstoppable?


An insane vig who doesn't really have a kill. An insane <insert role name> that does the opposite of what <role name> is supposed to do.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby careyhammer » Wed May 09, 2012 3:19 pm UTC

Closed setup means that we have no idea how many town, how many scum, and what other roles are in the game?
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby ahammel » Wed May 09, 2012 3:45 pm UTC

JesseScottOwen wrote:Not a speck of flavor knowledge, except for some brief browsing of the wiki. Which brings me to:

Why are Bronx and Brooklyn members of the Manhattan clan? That makes no sense.

As I recall, they woke up in New York and named themselves after landmarks and street signs more or less at random. Goliath was the only one with a name.

I wouldn't worry too much about the insane roles. Too many of them makes the game a cakewalk for mafia, so there are probably only one or two, possibly more if they are included as secondary powers (for example, a mason might also have a secretly ineffective roleblock).

careyhammer wrote:Closed setup means that we have no idea how many town, how many scum, and what other roles are in the game?

It means we aren't told. We can make a guess as to the size of the scum faction(s) based on balance issues. In a vanilla game (which this isn't, but work with me here), mafia has a game-theoretical advantage if they have more than about sqrt(n) members, where n is the total number of players. We can therefore expect at least 3 or 4 mafiosi to make a balanced game. In a game this small, I think it would be difficult to keep things balanced with two scum factions of any size, so I'm going to predict a scum faction of 3 (including Xanatos) and a serial killler (Demona?). That would be a pretty underpowered mafia in a vanilla game, so they'll probably have some big-gun powers (probably including a Godfather). There's probably an independent or two as well (usually good for mafia).

I don't see anything scummy in fearless's suggestion. It's a bit middle-of-thre-road, sure, but it doesn't seem out of the ordinary for fearless. Snark does seem quieter than usual, but flarpfreak is putting the biggest ping on my scumdar for extremely unlikely role-sanity speculation. It reads like scum trying to spread wine to me.

So, in the spirit of making mountains from molehills:

Vote: flarpfreak
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby careyhammer » Wed May 09, 2012 4:27 pm UTC

OK, me too.

Vote: flarpfreak
DUCK!

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby Snark » Wed May 09, 2012 4:32 pm UTC

careyhammer wrote:OK, me too.

Vote: flarpfreak


Vote: careyhammer

I just can't put up with this kind of playstyle.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby JesseScottOwen » Wed May 09, 2012 4:40 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:[...]
7. JesseScottOwen - Since I doubt he bothered checking the wiki, I think his comment is directly related to his role, so I'm guessing he's town.
[...]


^Offended.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby KrO2 » Wed May 09, 2012 4:41 pm UTC

We've got to do something, so I'm going to call out Captain Finglass on this:
CaptainFinglass wrote:On the topic of sane/insane roles, I think using caution in your results would be a good idea, but I don't think everyone should try and use it on themselves on D1 (Night and Day are reversed so D1 = N1 usually, I think. I'm confused already :P), because then we will not have so much as speculation on N2. If, however, whatever cop(s) etc we have use it on a random person, we can at least have speculation for N2, which can be checked by them checking themselves on D2.
Cops outing themselves without a definitive verdict is usually bad for town (unless they know they'll be protected, or probably other exceptions I haven't thought of). Cops are too valuable to make themselves targets like that just for speculation, especially if it's investigation on a random person. Suppose the cop(s) follow your plan and investigate someone and tell us about it. That gives us plenty to discuss, and we can probably figure out whether that person is guilty or innocent. So far, so good. But it also means that any and all cops are known to scum.

careyhammer: Really? I know you haven't actually played before, but that is the absolute Platonic ideal of the kind of vote not to make. And now Snark is OK with lynching you for the play style even if you're not scum. That's how wrong you are. Votes aren't even as important as the reasoning behind them a lot of the time, especially now. I severely doubt you have any reasoning, but if you do would you care to share?

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby JesseScottOwen » Wed May 09, 2012 4:48 pm UTC

You know what, just because it's Day 1 Night 1, and we're shooting blind,

Vote: Boomfrog

I browsed the wiki. Jerk. :|
"And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 1: Reflections of the Self

Postby careyhammer » Wed May 09, 2012 4:55 pm UTC

unvote

vote: snark


I seriously have no idea what strategy to use, so i'm just kind of voting on a whim. Convince me to change my vote and why and I will probably do it.
DUCK!


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