Fallout Mafia II - Game Over - DBC Married - Town Wins

For your simulated organized crime needs.

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BoomFrog
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Fallout Mafia II - Game Over - DBC Married - Town Wins

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:34 am UTC

Fallout II Mafia

Basic Mafia Rules:
Spoiler:
1. Do not talk about the game outside this thread except by posting within a spoiler labeled "Fallout II" in the discussion thread. (Do not read such spoilers unless a mod confirms you are out of the game)
2. If you are a player, you may NOT edit your posts under any circumstances. If you want to correct a typo or add on to a previous post, make a new post and preface it with "EBWOP" (Edit By Way Of Post).
3. All votes should be made by posting on a new line, IN BOLD. For example,

VOTE: BoomFrog

4. Don't lurk through the whole game; if you need to drop out, PM the mods. Really bad lurkers ruin the game for everyone.
5. Once a mod declares nighttime or someone reaches a majority vote (aka, hammered), do not post in the thread.
6. If you die, don't say anything for the rest of the game except a simple, "Bah, you got me," which reveals no information.
7. You may not quote or refer to specific details of word usage or structure of any PM from a mod. Paraphrasing the meaning only is fine. Quoting PM's from other players is fine.


Fallout Mafia setup info and rules:
Spoiler:
PMing Please send all game related PM as a “reply all” to a PM received from the mods. This will keep all the PMs as one easy to reference conversation thread and make life much easier for the mods.

Bastardy Level Slight to none: Roles are not guaranteed to be sane. Unusual roles may be used (e.g. Scum Mason Recruiter, Miller in a game with no cop, Ninja Doctor). There is no form of spoiler-reading role in this game. Any listener role will be very limited, and unaffected by using codes or names in PMs so don't bother encrypting PMs in any way.

Health: You have a health stat, an average human has 3/3 health. If you run out of health you die.

Charisma: In the case of a tie vote the player with the lower charisma is lynched. (Charisma is a secret stat)

Rations: Each night phase you eat one ration. If you do not have a ration then you lose one health and one max health.

Trading: During the day you can give raw materials to other players by PMing the mods "I give X to Bob" You may also set up trades by PMing the mods, "I will give X to Bob for Y." If Bob also PM's the mod saying, "I will give Y to Alice for X" then Alice and Bob will trade. If this is unclear ask for help from a mod. Who is trading will be noted publicly, but not what they are trading.

Crafting: You may craft any item on the crafting list by PMing the mod, "I craft X". You will use the materials and gain the item which let you use that item's action at night. You can craft any number of times during the day or night phase, it does not take up your night action.

Night action results: Players will be told what weapons and first aid were used on them and will be told if their actions are successful or not. The cause of death will be revealed for all deaths.

Looting the dead: In addition to your night action each night you may target one player, living or dead, to loot. If that player is dead then their items will be divided amongst all who looted them. This is a (close) action. If you use a (close) item action then you will be assumed to also attempt to loot your target.

Winning: The game ends when one faction has eliminated all opposition, or victory is inevitable.


Items:
Spoiler:
Each item gives you access to an action you can use it for at night. You may use one item each night against one target. Stealthboys and drugs do not count as your action to use and you may use one of each. A (close) action brings you close to your target. You cannot perform two (close) actions on two different targets.

• Pistol – Uses a bullet. Target takes 2-Armor damage
• Shotgun – Uses a bullet. Target takes 4-2xArmor damage
• Sniper Rifle – Uses a bullet. Target takes 5-Armor damage
• Laser pistol – Uses a battery. Target takes 2 damage
• Plasma Rifle – Uses a fusion cell. Target takes 3 damage
• Knife – Target takes 1-Armor damage. (close)
• Sword – Target takes 2-Armor damage. (close)
• Throwing Spear – Target takes 3-Armor damage and gets your throwing spear.
• Super Sledge Target takes 5-Armor damage. Only usable if you have power armor or are using buffout. (close)
• Rocket Fist – Uses a fuel. Target takes 3-Armor damage and is roleblocked (their action tonight is canceled) (close)
• Junk Launcher – Uses a scrap. Target takes 3-Armor damage.
• Flamer – Uses two fuel. Target and anyone close to them takes 3 damage
• Rocket Launcher – Uses a rocket. Target and anyone close to them takes 5-armor damage
• Grenade – Consumed. Target and anyone close to them takes 3-armor damage
• EMP Grenade – Consumed. Target and anyone close to them loses the benefits of all powered equipment (laser pistol, plasma rifle, and power armor)
• Booby-trap – Use on yourself, consumed and the effect lasts until triggered. A random player who gets close to you takes 3-armor damage before taking their action.
• First Aid Kit – Target is healed 2hp (healing and damage is simultaneous). Consumed if your target has any wounds actually healed. You are considered close to your target.
• Scope - You are told a general description of your target including their armor, and item used that night.
• Stealthboy – Consumed, does not count as an action. Knife, Sword and Super Sledge do an extra two damage tonight and all actions targeting you tonight are canceled. (They fail but without cost)

Armor: You automatically use your best armor unless you PM the mod otherwise. If an attack hurts you or is barely stopped by your armor (ignoring effects of Med-X) then your armor becomes damaged. Damaged armor blocks one less damage per attack. Armor can be damaged multiple times.
• Leather Armor – Gives you 1 Armor
• Metal Armor – Gives you 2 Armor
• Combat Armor – Gives you 3 Armor
• Power Armor – Gives you 4 Armor, attacks that ignore armor are still reduced by 2damage. You deal an extra damage with knife and sword attacks. (and you are able to use a super sledge)

Drugs: You may use each drug once per night. If you take a specific drug twice in the game then you suffer it’s withdrawal effect each night that you don’t use that drug.
• Buff Out – You gain two temporary HP and one Max HP until the start of tomorrow night and you can use a super sledge. Withdrawal: You lose two Max HP.
• Jet – You may use a second action item tonight. Withdrawal: You cannot use any action items.
• Psycho – Any damage you cause tonight does one more hp of damage. Withdrawal: You must do two or more damage to another player or you do one damage to yourself.
• Med-X – Any damage you take tonight is reduced by one. Withdrawal: Any damage you take is increased by one.
• StimPak – You are healed for two damage. Withdrawal: First Aid Kits do not affect you.

Recipe List: The number in parenthesis is the mod’s estimate of the items relative value.
• (2) Bullet – Scrap, Gunpowder
• (2) Pistol – 2xScrap
• (5) Shotgun – pistol, 3xScrap
• (8) Sniper Rifle - Shotgun, 3xScrap
• (3) Laser pistol – Scrap, 2xChemicals
• (6) Plasma rifle – Laser pistol, Scrap, Battery
• (2) Knife – 2xScrap
• (6) Sword – knife, 3x Scrap, Leather
• (4) Throwing Spear – Knife, Scrap, Leather
• (9) Super Sledge – 3xScrap, Fusion cellx2
• (6) Rocket Fist – 4xScrap, 2xLeather
• (8) Junk Launcher – 2xScrap, 2xLeather, 2xBattery
• (6) Flamer – 4xScrap, 2x Leather
• (6) Rocket Launcher – 4xScrap, Battery
• (4) Rocket - Scrap, fuel, Gunpowder
• (4) Grenade – 3xGunpowder, Scrap
• (4) EMP Grenade – Battery, Chemicals, Scrap
• (6) Booby-trap – Grenade, 2x Leather
• (4) Scope – Scrap, 2x Chemicals, Leather
• (4) First Aid Kit – 3x Chemicals, Leather
• (5) Stealthboy – Fusion cell, Battery

Armor: You can repair one damage to your armor for the cost of one Scrap or one Leather. You cannot upgrade damaged armor.
• (3) Leather Armor – 3xLeather
• (6) Metal Armor – Leather Armor, 3xScrap
• (9) Combat Armor – Metal Armor, 2xScrap, Leather
• (17) Power Armor – Combat Armor, 4xScrap, Leather, Fusion cell

Drugs:
• (3) Buff Out – Gunpowder, 2x Chemicals
• (3) Jet – Battery, Chemicals
• (4) Psycho – Fuel, Scrap, Chemicals
• (4) Med-X – Fuel, 2x Chemicals
• (3) StimPak – 3x Chemicals

Materials: (1) Scrap, (1) Leather, (2) Battery Pack, (1) Chemicals, (3) Fusion cell, (2) Fuel, (1) Gunpowder, (2) Ration, (1) Irradiated Ration.


Alive Players:
1. lynx
4. wam
5. Adam H
6. CaptainFinglass
7. Servant-of_Christ
8. DaBigCheez


Graveyard:
3. Eculc - Killed N2
11. matt96 - Lynched D2
2. New User - Killed N1
9. UniqueScreenname - Probably modkilled
10. Lataro - Lynched D1
12. The Masked Gecko - Killed N1
Last edited by BoomFrog on Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:53 am UTC, edited 9 times in total.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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BoomFrog
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - Pregame Setup

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:26 pm UTC

It was just another day in Chormetown, a bustling trade town that built it's reputation on neutrality. Offering trade and protection to anyone, within their walls. Ghouls, Super-mutants, Slavers, Cannibals, it didn't matter. But like any good thing in this world it had to come to an end.

Raiders came and overtook the walls, almost everyone was massacred in the bloodbath that followed. Only thirteen survived. There wasn't much left, but you'll need every scrap to survive out here in the wastes. If you head out on your own your as good as dead, so the thirteen started talking about working together to get to the next town over. BoomFrog was the loudest about splitting up the rations and scraps fairly, he started bossing everyone around like someone had appointed him moderator or something. Someone disagreed and put a bullet through his head.

So much for working together...


Day 1 is starting now. Role PMs are going out over the next hour. Confirm in thread that you have received one, when everyone has confirmed then D1 can start immediately.

D1 will end about 6 days and 12.5 hours from now. Future days will be shorter. 12 alive, 7 to lynch.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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wam
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - Pregame Setup

Postby wam » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:00 pm UTC

Confirm
Come join us playing mafia signup here

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Adam H
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - Pregame Setup

Postby Adam H » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:07 pm UTC

I confirm my temporary existence as a sentient avatar of the role named in a PM entitled [SECRET ROLE PM NAME] that was sent to me by the one they call Boomfrog.
-Adam

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lynx
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - Pregame Setup

Postby lynx » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:10 pm UTC

Confirming

Can we dismantle items once we've PMed you to craft them, and does it cost anything?

Sorry if the answer is there somewhere, that's a lot of info to take in all at once. Looks like you've put a hell of a lot of time into this game, cheers BF!

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - Pregame Setup

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:16 pm UTC

lynx wrote:Can we dismantle items once we've PMed you to craft them, and does it cost anything?

No.

I will try to cough up a list of other subtle changes from Fallout 1. I probably should have kept a log.

Most notable are:
Trades can happen simultaneously now, like everyone originally expected
Melee (now called close actions) do not reveal who you are or trigger counter attacks.
Ammo technically works differently but is effectively the same.
Added "scope" and "throwing spear"
Power armor does not consume fusion cells to use.
Some weapons do more damage and repairing only costs 1 material for everyone.
You need to eat every day.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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New User
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - Pregame Setup

Postby New User » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:25 pm UTC

Since BoomFrog replied to that, I guess it's okay to post in this thread now. Confirming. It still says not to post in enormous letters in the OP.

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - Pregame Setup

Postby UniqueScreenname » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:43 pm UTC

Confirm
PolakoVoador wrote:Pizza is never a question, pizza is always the answer.
poxic wrote:When we're stuck, flailing, and afraid, that's usually when we're running into the limitations of our old ways of doing things. Something new is being born. Stick around and find out what it is.

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - Pregame Setup

Postby DaBigCheez » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:44 pm UTC

Confirminate! Confirminate!
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - Pregame Setup

Postby TheMaskedGecko » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:01 pm UTC

Confirming, with an apology for typing my name wrong in sign ups. Sorry BoomFrog.
ConMan wrote:the neighbourhood’s favourite lizard

Yeah, I don't care if it's out of context, it massages my ego and so it stays.

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Lataro
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - Pregame Setup

Postby Lataro » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:18 pm UTC

I'm here. No clue whats up, but I'm here.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:25 pm UTC

Since BoomFrog replied to that, I guess it's okay to post in this thread now. Confirming. It still says not to post in enormous letters in the OP.
DERP! :roll:

That's what I get for finishing this up two hours after my normal bedtime.

Waiting for confirmations from:
6. CaptainFinglass
7. Servant-of_Christ
3. Eculc
11. matt96

I'm guessing they got scared off by the "do not post sign". I'll send them another PM. :oops:
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby matt96 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:50 pm UTC

confirm.

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby eculc » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:55 pm UTC

confirmed
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby CaptainFinglass » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:08 pm UTC

Confirm
Allons-y!

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby Servant-of_Christ » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:14 am UTC

Yo confirmo.

No, I speak english.just thought spanish would be more fun

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:50 am UTC

Okay, everyone's confirmed. Let the game officially Begin.

Deadline is in 6 days and 2 hours.

Btw, if your PM didn't say otherwise then you have 3/3 health.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby matt96 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:56 am UTC

What is the difference between rations and irradiated rations?

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby New User » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:18 am UTC

This game looks pretty complicated, and I don't know what to expect. Maybe someone who was in the first Fallout Mafia can begin by telling us what they expect is similar in this game, and where we should begin. Here's what I got out of it so far:
-We start with raw materials.
-If we want night actions, we trade these raw materials and use them to craft items. The items are what give us the night actions.
-There is no mention in the rules of the mafia having a night kill. This was explicitly mentioned in the rules for the first Fallout Mafia. Although that mention has been omitted here, I think it's better to be cautious and assume the mafia can kill at night.

That last bullet has a bit of speculation. I've already typed and re-typed this message a few times, because I don't know how to begin this game. I'm trying to keep the speculation to a minimum so I'm not wildly accused of making up random BS.

If it's true that we have no night actions and we have to craft items to give us those actions, I think it best if we discuss which items we want to have to use against the mafia before we individually begin crafting items. If we decide as a group how we can best attack (or defend from) the mafia, then we can come up with ideas of who needs which materials to craft those items. I understand if everyone doesn't want to immediately divulge which raw materials we started with, but if we can come up with goals like "make a scope and use it to investigate each other" then we can begin trading with those goals in mind.

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby UniqueScreenname » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:52 am UTC

Reading that list has already overwhelmed me. I would really like for someone in the first one to tell us what the setup was there and how similar this one appears to be. I just think it will be more concise than me reading it myself.
PolakoVoador wrote:Pizza is never a question, pizza is always the answer.
poxic wrote:When we're stuck, flailing, and afraid, that's usually when we're running into the limitations of our old ways of doing things. Something new is being born. Stick around and find out what it is.

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby lynx » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:12 am UTC

In terms of trading, not sure how you all did it last time. But I'm looking for one piece of scrap, and have one chemicals to trade for it.
I might also need some rations later on although I'd imagine many people are a little short. We are in an irradiated wasteland, after all!

In terms of rolespec, I'd guess a town, a mafia faction and possibly an independent. Not sure on exact numbers in a 12-player but last time it was split 7-3, with no independents. I'd guess mafia have some sort of NK again, last time it was the HKD from what I can tell. Other than the NK I guess they'll just let town kill each other off.

ninja'd by US: I read the OP of Fallout 1 and it appears to be quite different. I'll try to put down what I get from the rules: it seems we have a town and a mafia like normal, just we can choose our night actions depending on what materials we have and how we use/trade them. We have to eat food every day, if we don't we starve.

We can craft weapons, items, armour and meds (basically like potions in an RPG). Weapons use bullets, armour gets damaged with use and has to be repaired. Chems can make you addicted when you take enough, and a day you don't get get them results in the withdrawal symptoms outlined.

(close) actions are something I was a little confused about, but think I've got it now. They are actions you have to get close to your target for (stabbing, punching, looting) and so you can't perform two of them in one night. If you loot a dead person you get a part of their stuff, if you're (close) to them for whatever reason you automatically loot them. There's no reflexive attack any more though, so it appears stealth is an option.

How many drugs do you have to take before getting addicted?
I had another question but forgot while I was writing the post out, maybe later I'll remember.

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby CaptainFinglass » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:16 am UTC

Having played the first game, I think one of the most helpful things to do was to keep track of trades. Anyone who suggested we post "shopping lists" was immediately under suspicion, which makes sense to me. It was judged that that was the way the mafia looked around for who would be good to kill and loot. Seeing as looting (slightly differently, but still) is still a part of the game, I would recommend not throwing all your supplies out there. Though if anyone makes a trade without notifying the rest of the thread, I am going to be immediately suspicious of them. The way we ended up trading last game, which worked rather well, was (on a separate line with underlined text) put whatever item we had for sale. It was assumed in a trade that only items that had been posted on the thread would be traded. It wasn't perfect, but it did keep the "shopping" to a minimum.

Last game, the mafia were given one night kill in addition to any night actions. I think it would be similar in this game, for the simple reason that otherwise the mafia... wouldn't really be the mafia, if that makes sense. At any rate, I think it would be better to overestimate how many kills there are than to underestimate. Which is why, for now, I'm assuming scum have a NK.

The problem with NU's plan as I see it is we don't know who the mafia are or what items/powers they have. They could easily make it seem like they're defending themselves (and maybe they would be) or helping someone else, when we're really just helping them craft items that will kill us.
Allons-y!

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby lynx » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:42 am UTC

What do you mean by "only items that had been posted on the thread would be traded"?
It makes sense that if someone has managed to organise a trade without mentioning it in-thread, they most likely have chat and are thus likely to be scum.
However, restricting town's ability to craft things they need seems a bit silly as last time it appeared town were quite powerless come late game, when scum had crafted decent weapons and town were sitting with lots of useless materials and leather armour.

Also, just remembered my other question.
Can you theoretically use a gun and a knife on the same night? That is, a normal and a (close action)? And can you use as many normal actions as you have access to?

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:51 am UTC

matt96 wrote:What is the difference between rations and irradiated rations?

No comment :twisted:

lynx wrote:How many drugs do you have to take before getting addicted?
After the 2nd dose of the same drug, you're hooked.

Can you theoretically use a gun and a knife on the same night? That is, a normal and a (close action)? And can you use as many normal actions as you have access to?
Each night (not counting using stealthboy or drugs) you can use one action, and you can loot one target. If your one action is a close action then you must loot the same target.

Additionally, you can also use one of each drug and a stealthboy.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby lynx » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:00 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
lynx wrote:Can you theoretically use a gun and a knife on the same night? That is, a normal and a (close action)? And can you use as many normal actions as you have access to?
Each night (not counting using stealthboy or drugs) you can use one action, and you can loot one target. If your one action is a close action then you must loot the same target. Additionally, you can also use one of each drug and a stealthboy.

Much better way of looting IMO, seems scum won't be the only ones getting items mid-game any more. But begs more questions!

Can we choose to loot a live player, in case they get killed? Will all supplies be divided up between looting parties on the night the target is killed or will each looter get a couple of things and subsequent lootings have a decreasing chance of getting anything?

If all supplies are divided up on the night the target was killed, scum will still get most of the supplies mid-game like in the first game, as players have less chance of looting the right person. However otherwise we may get a lot of people coming away empty-handed from having wasted their looting action!

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:29 am UTC

lynx wrote:Can we choose to loot a live player, in case they get killed?
Yes
Will all supplies be divided up between looting parties on the night the target is killed or will each looter get a couple of things and subsequent lootings have a decreasing chance of getting anything?
Loot is divided randomly amongst all looters. If one person loots a corpse by themselves then they get everything.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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Lataro
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby Lataro » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:11 am UTC

So... does lynching kill someone, or just do 1 damage or what?

I wasn't in the first game, and don't have the desire to go back and read it. Not really sure how this game will unfold, seems like if scum pools their resources, they'll make powerful stuff and mow us down.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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wam
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby wam » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:33 am UTC

Right so Im here and I did play in the last game here comes a wall of text.

First things first, where we (town) went wrong in the last game was we got far to caught up in trading mechanics and didnt spend nearly enough time scum hunting. So I suggest that we take the approach we did in that game and leave it at that. Each person list items up to a total value of 3 that they are willing to trade. If you want one of those you offer one of the ones you have on offer. If you trade anything not on offer you will be lynched.

Things have changed a bit for this game, here are what I see as the most critical changes.

1) melee weapons no longer damage people who attack you with other melee weapons, this makes scums life easier
2) rations, the having to eat is going to make things interesting especially the odd difference between irradiated rations and rations (more on this later)
3) the looting of bodies, previously the person who killed someone got everything, and the lynched persons were shared out evenly.

Right mod question time .

What happens to the lynched persons stuff, do we still have to loot them?

When making a conditional trade does the person you are trading with get told by the mod what the trade is? I.e if i said trade X for Y with Z would Z get told that or would I have to say it in thread?

Thoughts

Lataro, but scum pooling resources (especially early on) is obvious as all trades are reported in thread. So if we lynch Y and they turn up scum and have been trading with Y a lot that makes Y look very suspicous.

The irradiated rations bit intrigues me. There are two ways I can see this going

1) The irradiated rations somehow hurt you, either a random effect (i.e, 50% of the time you lose a HP etc) or long delay, i.e your fine for a day or two but go down hill after that.

2) its some form of zombie ish recruiting mechanism.
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby TheMaskedGecko » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:32 pm UTC

From what I remember of the first game, the mafia's kill was quite overpowered. I see no reason that they should have one in this game. They've got resources from 3 or 4 players to pool (assuming standard scum distribution) and they don't need to worry about hitting their own team like we do. Admittedly, they'll have a trickier D1, not being able to coordinate trades as well, but after that I can imagine a scum kill breaking the game.

@lynx: I'll trade one scrap for one chemicals (sending mod PM now)

Last game we really messed around with the trading system and as a result scum ran rings around us. So I agree that we should trade as much as we need.
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby eculc » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:07 pm UTC

From what I remember reading through the thread, everyone focused on a way to regulate trading to stop scum, and it wound up with scum killing people off with the NK because no-one could defend themselves. I suggest that we trade freely as well.

I'd be willing to bet that scum won't have a nightkill; the NK in the first fallout was immensely OP. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that scum will be doing more killing N2 than tonight; their night chat will probably help them coordinate their trading for D2, and then they'll be making their weapons and such to fight with.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby lynx » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:47 pm UTC

Cheers for that TMG, much easier than I expected!
I'm inclined to agree with eculc and TMG on the trading front though. Yes scum could benefit, but that might be necessary for town to have a chance and even the playing field a bit. Of course we need to be vigilant and big questions will be asked of someone who has been trading with any regularity with a lynched mafia member. I think town need to be more aggressive than last time, as we're not going to win by sitting around waiting for mafia to kill us. The mechanics for this game allow a much more personalised game, and we might do well to take that opportunity, but carefully.

BF, this is just something I was wondering earlier when reading through the Fallout I thread:
Do you still have that rule where items over a certain value don't get looted?

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby New User » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:22 pm UTC

Okay so there is already trading going on. I want to say again, please let us not be hasty to craft things until we have had a chance to talk about strategy. There isn't any rush, since you can craft any number of things at any time. If you are planning on crafting armor or drugs to help keep you alive, for example, you can wait until the day phase is almost over. Since we can't uncraft anything, that will help save us the regretful feeling of having used up the resources on one idea before a better idea comes along.

I suspect there are players who can farm resources. I also agree that scum might not have a night kill, if it was overpowered in the last game. I presumed that irradiated rations would harm us, but zombie recruiting is possible, since there are ghouls in the fallout games. How are ghouls made in the fallout games? I thought they all came from the war and were 200 years old or something. Are humans still turned into ghouls by radiation, even after the war is over? How does a ghoul become a feral ghoul in the fallout games?

@wam your trading strategy looks like it is going by the trading mechanics from the old game. In this game, I don't think items traded are ever revealed, regardless of the value of those items.

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby Adam H » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:23 pm UTC

Okey dokey. First of all, this thread is blocked at work because of "weapons". :P So I'll be posting here less frequently than other games I'm in, and there might be a question I'm expected to answer but instead I'm posting in other games or the discussion thread, but I'm not trying to active lurk or anything. This happens every once in a while (never before for "weapons" though) and once we post some more it should stop. Talking about weapons a little less might help though. :D

Second, I seriously doubt irradiated food can change alignment. The side effects in Fallout 3 or radiation poisoning were extremely minimal. You could even get a perk that would make you regenerate health (or something) if you were radiated to a certain point. In fact, I think that the reason irradiated rations is worth less than regular rations is ONLY because of the sinister name. People will be able to fetch a higher trading price for rations.

Third, I bet there's no NK. Instead, I predict BF manipulated the items so that mafia starts off with enough materials to make a weapon or two.

BF: care to confirm or deny the existence of something similar to the HKD from last game?

Fourth, let's do what they decided last game on the trading. Say what you have for sale, then if someone else puts something out there that you want, ask if they want to trade with you. If you don't say it's for sale, you can't trade it. And don't put your whole inventory out for scum to see. Keep it restricted to 2-3 value. This WAS suggested by a scum player last game, but I think it's sound.

I have 1 chemical and/or 1 fuel for sale.


Strategy wise, I think one way we can scumhunt is to keep in mind that town will be wanting armor (especially if there's no NK), and scum won't. Therefore, something that does 3 damage could be extremely useful - if they survive then they probably don't have a weapon and probably aren't scum, and if they die then they're more likely scum than not. Even if it kills town, then the vig gets the loot.

Of course, there's a TON of wine there. Not every town can get armor, and some scum will probably get armor. But I think just mentioning this makes it more likely that scum crafts armor which means they can't craft weapons. Armor doesn't help with surviving a lynch* which is the main scum-killing tool we have, so armor is only of marginal use to scum.

*I'm assuming lynching kills players no matter how much health they have. That's how it worked last game.

Also, should the town people try to loot living players who are likely to get NKed? I would think not. 1 scum will probably loot their NK target, and the other scum(s) will probably loot the lynched player. It seems like we maximize our chances of getting items if we all loot the lynched player.

Actually, it might be best if the player about to get lynched gives all his items away like Snark did last game. That way if he gives it all to one player, town knows who to loot, which probably would stop mafia from killing them.
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby eculc » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:59 pm UTC

I agree for the most part adam, although this confused me a bit:

Adam H wrote:Actually, it might be best if the player about to get lynched gives all his items away like Snark did last game. That way if he gives it all to one player, town knows who to loot, which probably would stop mafia from killing them.


could you clarify what you mean by this? I'd think that if a lynchee gives all of their items to one player, that'd only make it more likely that they get NKed, not to mention make them an appealing target for a grenade or rocket launcher if everyone decides to loot them.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby TheMaskedGecko » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:40 pm UTC

Of course giving one player a lot of stuff would mean that they would be more likely able to create armour and any people with first aid kits etc. know who to target. If you know you're going to die, giving stuff away is immeasurably preferable to being looted as it gives scum less of a chance to get stuff. There are a couple of variations that might be worth discussing, such as giving stuff to more than one player (maximising potential risk/ minimising potential damage [Sod off Spellcheck, those words do not have a z in]) or making the person who gets the stuff something that everybody votes on (more stuff to look at but gives scum more control)
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby Lataro » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:59 pm UTC

Okay, fun time.

No one else has mentioned it here, or even hinted at it, so I'll go ahead and have some fun.

I can disassemble items crafted as a free action back into their component parts. They can not be damaged though before doing so though, I believe.

I'm going to open my services to anyone who wants it. Give me the item, I'll take it apart, and give you the crafting mats back. I can also NOT break drugs down, once made, they are as they are.

Why?

Because I'm going to charge a fee for this service. Part of the disassembled item stays with me, to further my own crafting ends. Alternatively, you can make me an offer of a crafting mat to keep that isn't part of what you want taken apart, and if I need it, we may have a deal. While in the early stages, lower quality mats will be more valuable to me, towards the end, this service may get quiet expensive. I will never do this unless I am getting something of value to me out of it. I am after all, making this claim in order to profit from it, not be a nice guy. For sufficiently valuable payments, I'd be willing to make a deal where I'll break stuff down for you infinitely at no additional charge due to the value of what was paid.

My service is open to all, I will not deny it to anyone without just cause. That said, if someone wanted to pay me to not do service for another player, I'm open to that as well.
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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby CaptainFinglass » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:06 am UTC

lynx wrote:What do you mean by "only items that had been posted on the thread would be traded"?
It makes sense that if someone has managed to organise a trade without mentioning it in-thread, they most likely have chat and are thus likely to be scum.
However, restricting town's ability to craft things they need seems a bit silly as last time it appeared town were quite powerless come late game, when scum had crafted decent weapons and town were sitting with lots of useless materials and leather armour.

We never said what we wanted, just what we had for sale. When two people made a trade, it meant that they (unless they had scum chat, which we can’t do anything to prevent) had traded those two things, because you didn’t know any other part of their inventory or what they were trying to make. It was a lot harder for scum to try and guess what someone was making. I’m not saying that it was perfect, and I’m fully open to suggestions now to improve the system, but it just seemed there were several questions about how we did it last game and it worked once we had it going.

Adam H wrote:Actually, it might be best if the player about to get lynched gives all his items away like Snark did last game. That way if he gives it all to one player, town knows who to loot, which probably would stop mafia from killing them.

Last game, all that happened when this occurred was scum immediately went and killed them, knowing they’d be killing town and they’d still get some share of the items. As well, half the items last game ended up in the hands of scum. I’d say random distribution is better. Instead of town concentrating all their resources in one bet (keep in mind, the person who gets it all could be scum), maybe if someone gave away one or two items to everyone? Scum would get some items that way, there’s no avoiding/denying that, but there is way less chance they get capabilities to make crazy weapons, and town would have the same chance of building their own armour/weapons.
Allons-y!

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby New User » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:36 am UTC

This is the best strategy I can come up with, and I'm sure it's going to be controversial: we forbid trading altogether. If anyone trades, we lynch them. If we do this, the mafia will presumably want to craft weapons so they can night kill, if they don't have a factional kill. If they started with as poor a selection of raw materials as I did, they won't be able to craft much that is good for themselves unless they trade with each other. They'll all probably have to gang up on one target to be able to kill that target, as with knives or other weak weapons they'll be able to craft. Also, it should be safe for us to loot any corpses since the number of grenades will probably be at a minimum. There could be a problem though: if the mafia has to use melee weapons to carry out night kills, they'll be the ones to auto loot the corpse. If they all have to group together just to kill someone, though, the loot will be split among them and if we forbid trading, they won't be able to consolidate the loot.

The problem with this strategy is, it's boring. Essentially I think the best chance of town's survival as a group is to keep the game as vanilla as possible. If we wanted to do that, we wouldn't have signed up to play in this game, which we all knew was going to be a complicated setup. I guess it's just in my nature to use a game's rules in such a way as to maximize my chance of winning, rather than to focus on interesting gameplay. Sorry, but that's the best strategy I can come up with.

If we're going to trade amongst ourselves on day one, we'd best come up with an idea of what powers we want and what we want to prevent the mafia from getting. I think having healing items is a good idea, so maybe we should make stimpacks and first aid kits. If we trade with each other to try and craft these items, the mafia will know who to target for a night kill. I can't think of any strategy for trading that can't be used to work against us by the mafia.

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby matt96 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:56 am UTC

Honestly, right now, I think we need some trading, limited to that which is necessary for us to survive until the next day, and by that, I mean, I am in desperate need of getting some trading done before the end of the day, as I was unfortunate enough to not start out with any rations.

I have a fusion cell I am willing to trade for 1 ration and 1 scrap

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Re: Fallout Mafia II - D1 - A sunny afternoon in the desert

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:10 am UTC

Lynx and TheMaskedGecko traded.

wam wrote:What happens to the lynched persons stuff, do we still have to loot them?
Lynched people who still have stuff become dead bodies with stuff that can be looted that night.

When making a conditional trade does the person you are trading with get told by the mod what the trade is? I.e if i said trade X for Y with Z would Z get told that or would I have to say it in thread?
People are not informed about offers, you need to make arrangements in thread

lynx wrote:Do you still have that rule where items over a certain value don't get looted?
There is no rule like that anymore

Adam H wrote:BF: care to confirm or deny the existence of something similar to the HKD from last game?
No comment
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