2046: "Trum-"

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fluffysheap
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2046: "Trum-"

Postby fluffysheap » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:02 pm UTC

Image

Title Text: "Excited to vote for future presidents Bill Eisenhamper, Amy Forb, Ethan Obample, and Abigail Washingtoast."

Not as weird as the two totally unrelated presidents whose last names were both Roosevelt, or at the opposite end of the spectrum, the two presidents named Grover Cleveland who were not just related, but actually the exact same person.

Donald Trump drinks twelve cans of diet Coke each day and has a call button on his desk to summon more Coke.

The two Presidents Roosevelt do raise* the question** as to how distantly related you can be to someone and still be considered unrelated. After all, at some level, every living thing has a common ancestor. Franklin Roosevelt is six generations separated from a common ancestor with Theodore Roosevelt. While they might be distantly related enough to be genetically indistinguishable from unrelated humans, the wealth of the family likely makes their political careers more correlated than actually unrelated people would be.

Further information here: Everybody is your 16th cousin
The short answer is that in the time period, where immigrant communities tended to group together by nationality, and travel was less frequent, being 6th cousins isn't particularly remarkable, as essentially everyone would be expected to be, at minimum, 9th cousins with someone from the same general background.

* Well, they might, if they were alive
** Not beg

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Mikeski » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:21 pm UTC

Right now, there is an artificial intelligence calculating what its name should be when it runs for the presidency.

It's currently stuck on "John Garcia Kennedy-Reagan"... the algorithm finds both last names together to be bad, but dropping either one to be worse.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby DavidSh » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:23 pm UTC

I think the Johnson presidents (Andrew and Lyndon) make a better claim for being unrelated than the Roosevelt presidents.

fluffysheap
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby fluffysheap » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:55 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:It's currently stuck on "John Garcia Kennedy-Reagan"... the algorithm finds both last names together to be bad, but dropping either one to be worse.
I nominate "Clinton Reagan Kennedy-Bush."

DavidSh wrote:I think the Johnson presidents (Andrew and Lyndon) make a better claim for being unrelated than the Roosevelt presidents.
True, but there are a lot more Johnsons than Roosevelts.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Flumble » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:23 pm UTC

The least weird fact is that people can't ever shut up about Trump. (We ought to give that a name by the way, like a Godwin but stronger: as a conversation goes on, the chance of naming Trump or his deeds approaches 1 and from then on it can only go on about politics.)

Far weirder, though, is the fact that Randall made this comic. Either the story/reference/joke went straight over my head or it's just very bland.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Lucia » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:06 am UTC

Who's the other one?
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Mikeski » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:11 am UTC

And it is strange that a country that fought a war* to get away from hereditary rulership has had, among its 45 Presidents**, two father-son pairs, one grandfather-grandson pair, one pair of shirttail cousins, and a 5th pair with the same last name but no relation. (Adams, Bush, Harrison, Roosevelt, and Johnson, in order.) And it just missed adding husband-wife pair to the list.

* - in part

** - 45 presidents, but only 39 people elected to the office... 2 nonconsecutive presidencies were the same person, and 5 people took over for an elected president without being later re-elected themselves. One of those wasn't even elected vice-president.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Mikeski » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:11 am UTC

Lucia wrote:Who's the other one?

Truman

J%r
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby J%r » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:12 am UTC

What's weirder is that in 1956 a song was written about Nellie the Elephant:

Nellie the Elephant packed her trunk
And said goodbye to the circus
Off she went with a trumpety-trump
Trump, trump, trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m7tPikH0UA

The elephant is the party symbol of the Republicans. And we all know it was a circus. Then last month it was revealed that a Nellie Ohr had something to do with the Russian probe. Next: someone has to pack their trunks?

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Sableagle » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:35 am UTC

Knowing that 1956 song made it awfully hard to march to this.
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da Doctah
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby da Doctah » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:55 am UTC

I find it amusing that the current presidents of the US and Russia both have surnames that so readily lend themselves to fart jokes.

(It's right up there with 2001-2008, when people used to talk about the top two spots in the US being held by Bush and Dick.)

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby qvxb » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:12 am UTC

"(It's right up there with 2001-2008, when people used to talk about the top two spots in the US being held by Bush and Dick.)"

Some leftist socialist progressives who take a knee during the playing of the National Anthem, say that the spots were held by two Dicks.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby PM 2Ring » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:35 pm UTC

I'm waiting for The Trump Show, starring Drew Carey. Or Mariah.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Euphonium » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:53 pm UTC

qvxb wrote:"(It's right up there with 2001-2008, when people used to talk about the top two spots in the US being held by Bush and Dick.)"

Some leftist socialist progressives who take a knee during the playing of the National Anthem


In other words, decent folk?

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby GlassHouses » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:57 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:I find it amusing that the current presidents of the US and Russia both have surnames that so readily lend themselves to fart jokes.

As someone who occasionally glances at French newspapers, it amuses me to no end that the French spell the Russian president's last name "Poutine."

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Old Bruce
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Old Bruce » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:44 pm UTC

GlassHouses wrote:
da Doctah wrote:I find it amusing that the current presidents of the US and Russia both have surnames that so readily lend themselves to fart jokes.

As someone who occasionally glances at French newspapers, it amuses me to no end that the French spell the Russian president's last name "Poutine."

That made my day. I'll give the French newspaper industry an internets for that, I know that I should give one to the language as well but we still aren't speaking (French knows why).

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Soupspoon » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:04 pm UTC

There's been some notable recent satirical playing around with the words"Poo Tin" here in the anglosphere. Some fictional (at least at first!) 'products' like cat-litter trays, but (along with "No Shit Sherlock!") you can find a de(re?)odouriser given this mocking version of his monicker.

(And "pootin'" is also/especially a word that some would use for having downwardly expelled flatus. As is to "trump".)

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da Doctah
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby da Doctah » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:39 am UTC

I think we've all been made aware of this by now:

Image

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby goulo » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:39 pm UTC

Am I the only one who is unsure about "Forb"?

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby orthogon » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:48 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:And it is strange that a country that fought a war* to get away from hereditary rulership has had, among its 45 Presidents**, two father-son pairs, one grandfather-grandson pair, one pair of shirttail cousins, and a 5th pair with the same last name but no relation. (Adams, Bush, Harrison, Roosevelt, and Johnson, in order.) And it just missed adding husband-wife pair to the list.


This edition of A Point of View is worth reading on that topic:

David Cannadine wrote:Some commentators went even further [than Lincoln's Secretary of State], insisting that although America claimed to be a republic, because it had no hereditary sovereign, it was in reality a disguised monarchy - whereas Britain might claim to be a monarchy, because it had a royal head of state, but it was in fact a concealed republic, because the politicians rather than the sovereign were actually in charge. In the words of one late 19th Century American newspaper: "Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king."
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Soupspoon
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:45 pm UTC

And then there's Naboo…?

(PS: Gerald Ford…)

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby MakingProgress » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:07 pm UTC

I always got confused that president George Bush and president George Bush were two different persons.
People should never give their children their own name.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:19 pm UTC

All of George Foreman's kids are named George Foreman.

Including his daughter.

Apparently that was a myth that I just fact-checked and found false.

(Not sure which is worse: that, or Frank Zappa's daughter named Moon Unit).
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:26 pm UTC

MakingProgress wrote:I always got confused that president George Bush and president George Bush were two different persons.
People should never give their children their own name.

Well, at least the current President isn't prone to just such narcissist… Oh. Never mind, move on. Nothing to see here.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby squall_line » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:46 pm UTC

I don't know if I'd vote for Abigail Washingtoast, but I would probably vote for Beezer Twelve Washingbeard.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Odilo » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:54 am UTC

GlassHouses wrote:As someone who occasionally glances at French newspapers, it amuses me to no end that the French spell the Russian president's last name "Poutine."


The reason for this is that, if it were spelled Putin, it would be pronounced like 'putain', which is french for whore. Calling him Poutine is actually the less offensive option.
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby fluffysheap » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:35 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:All of George Foreman's kids are named George Foreman.
Including his daughter.

Apparently that was a myth that I just fact-checked and found false.

His five sons are all named George, and one of his daughters is named Georgetta. So it's not far off.

He has six other daughters (two adopted) with names that are not similar to George.

I went to college with a girl named George, but I don't remember if it was just a nickname.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby HES » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:29 am UTC

fluffysheap wrote:five sons
one of his daughters
six other daughters

I suppose at this point you can be forgiven for running out of names
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby beckertalk67 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:05 pm UTC

If you want weird presidential stats... Try plotting the birth years of the current LIVING presidents:

Carter #39: 1924
Bush #41: 1924
Clinton #42: 1946
Bush #43: 1946
Obama #44: 1961
Trump #45: 1946

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Soupspoon
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:14 pm UTC

(Now try plotting their years of death. Right now!)

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Old Bruce » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:12 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:(Now try plotting their years of death. Right now!)

That is what the NSA and Secret Service people see. Nice talking with you. [wicked-smiley-face emoticon]

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Archgeek » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:42 pm UTC

Old Bruce wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:(Now try plotting their years of death. Right now!)

That is what the NSA and Secret Service people see. Nice talking with you. [wicked-smiley-face emoticon]

Bladelamps, they must have to filter out a lot of false-positives from the actuarial community.
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:28 am UTC

Old Bruce wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:(Now try plotting their years of death. Right now!)

That is what the NSA and Secret Service people see. Nice talking with you. [wicked-smiley-face emoticon]

Oh shoot! I'll have to have another stab at that so that it doesn't poison my reputation.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Old Bruce » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:50 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
Old Bruce wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:(Now try plotting their years of death. Right now!)

That is what the NSA and Secret Service people see. Nice talking with you. [wicked-smiley-face emoticon]

Oh shoot! I'll have to have another stab at that so that it doesn't poison my reputation.

Nah, just let auto-correct change reputation to representative. [a-different-wicked-smiley-face emoticon]

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby Sableagle » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:28 am UTC

I wonder how many videos on YouTube feature a guy saying he's going to shoot at some collection of pork ribs and fruit "which is meant to be representative" of some kind of bad guy.
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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby jozwa » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:21 pm UTC

Odilo wrote:
GlassHouses wrote:As someone who occasionally glances at French newspapers, it amuses me to no end that the French spell the Russian president's last name "Poutine."


The reason for this is that, if it were spelled Putin, it would be pronounced like 'putain', which is french for whore. Calling him Poutine is actually the less offensive option.


It's weird to me that the French will misspell someone's name just because "otherwise it's not pronounced correctly". Someone I know had a French pen pal and they would write my acquaintance's name in a weird way. (Not because it would otherwise be offensive; just to maintain the correct pronunciation.) That reasoning has always blown my mind. :roll: Is it really that hard to remember the pronunciation of a non-French name?

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby GlassHouses » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:40 pm UTC

jozwa wrote:
Odilo wrote:
GlassHouses wrote:As someone who occasionally glances at French newspapers, it amuses me to no end that the French spell the Russian president's last name "Poutine."

The reason for this is that, if it were spelled Putin, it would be pronounced like 'putain', which is french for whore. Calling him Poutine is actually the less offensive option.

It's weird to me that the French will misspell someone's name just because "otherwise it's not pronounced correctly". Someone I know had a French pen pal and they would write my acquaintance's name in a weird way. (Not because it would otherwise be offensive; just to maintain the correct pronunciation.) That reasoning has always blown my mind. :roll: Is it really that hard to remember the pronunciation of a non-French name?

Given that the correct spelling of the Russian president's last name is Пу́тин, I think I can cut the French some slack here. There is no such thing as a universally consistent transliteration scheme, unfortunately.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby ijuin » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:25 am UTC

There’s also an amount of linguistic snobbery in refusing to use phonetic conventions from outside of the language being spoken. Remember, French is a language that has its own official institute for the preservation of linguistic purity, dedicated to the prevention of the adoption of foreign-isms.

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Re: 2046: "Trum-"

Postby GlassHouses » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:18 am UTC

ijuin wrote:There’s also an amount of linguistic snobbery in refusing to use phonetic conventions from outside of the language being spoken. Remember, French is a language that has its own official institute for the preservation of linguistic purity, dedicated to the prevention of the adoption of foreign-isms.

I wouldn't call it snobbery when a French-language publication writes Putin as Poutine. The Latin alphabet is supposed to be a phonetic writing system, and while no language has a perfect correspondence between letters and sounds, it is necessary to make an occasional effort to keep spelling and pronunciation in sync.

As has already been pointed out, writing Putin as Putin, in French, is just wrong. The French u sounds very different from the Russian у, and the best available transcription happens to be "ou." Likewise, the French ending -in sounds very different from the Russian -ин, and -ine is closer.

How can you call it arrogant to use a transcription that gives the best possible phonetic approximation of the original (not perfect, the differences between Russian and French phonotactics are too great for that), rather than copy the transliteration used in a completely different language?

In Dutch, Putin's name is rendered Poetin. No final -e here, because Dutch has no nasalized vowels to avoid, but the у is transcribed as "oe," because the Dutch u sounds like the French u, i.e. unlike the Russian у, and unlike the English u. Maybe the Dutch refuse to use the English transliteration because they, too, are snobbish about their language, but that would be an accusation you don't hear a lot. :D


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