1172: "Workflow"

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Klear
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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby Klear » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:27 am UTC

RogueCynic wrote:I've heard said that a reasonable man adapts himself to his surroundings, while an unreasonable man adapts his surroundings to him. Therefore all progress is made by unreasonable people. Applying this concept to the comic would suggest that progress would be made by backing out of changes. Therefore, progress is a backward movement.


I've heard that if you start with a false or misinterpreted assumption, you can make quite absurd predictions...

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orthogon
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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby orthogon » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:32 am UTC

mrbaggins wrote:
orthogon wrote: [...] You'll be telling us that you think "Entire Caption" is the appropriate default for cross-references next.


I've never used cross referencing, but I just hit the button and "Entire Caption" isn't even an option. Default appears to be a numbered paragraph (Office 2010). I haven't tested yet on 2013.


"Entire Caption" is the default for references to figures. So for example you would have a caption under your plot:

Figure 3: Relationship between gostak concentration and proportion of doshes disdimmed.


Then when you wanted to reference it, the default would be:

The relationship between the gostak concentration and the proportions of doshes disdimmed is shown in Figure 3: Relationship between gostak concentration and proportion of doshes disdimmed.


I challenge anyone to want that ever, let alone more often than they want "... is shown in Figure 3.".

I have Word 2007 (I think - since they removed the menus I've no idea where Help-About is), but it's been the same since the beginning of time and I doubt they would change it now, in case it "broke somebody's workflow", but if you tell me it's fixed in 2013 I will be a happy person!

(Thanks to J Thomas for bringing the fascinating subject of doshes and gostaks to my attention.)
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby RogueCynic » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:51 pm UTC

nowhereman wrote:This is one of the funniest XKCDs I have read in awhile. Partly because part of my job at Fry's is to convince people to not do things like this. I remember trying to convince a guy that putting a window air conditioner in your car was not a good idea. Until then, it never would have occurred to me that this was anything but obvious. Also, to any who are interested, I failed to convince him. I gave up and suggested a 2000W inverter to power it. I just hope one day I get to see the look on whatever poor soul pulls him over for the obstruction.

You know, they have ac units that sit in the middle of the room with a flex pipe vent you can put out the window. All you need to do is cut a hole on the back seat and trunk.
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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby J Thomas » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:49 am UTC

orthogon wrote:(Thanks to J Thomas for bringing the fascinating subject of doshes and gostaks to my attention.)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gostak
http://iplayif.com/?story=http://parchm ... stak.z5.js
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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby Klear » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:21 am UTC

Finally, here you are. At the delcot of tondam, where doshes deave. But the doshery lutt is crenned with glauds.

Glauds! How rorm it would be to pell back to the bewl and distunk them, distunk the whole delcot, let the drokes discren them.

But you are the gostak. The gostak distims the doshes. And no glaud will vorl them from you.


Sounds a lot a like Jabberwocky. The great thing about that poem is that the unknown words still create some kind of emotional response and it is possible to understand it, though perhaps one which differs person to person.

Edit:
http://iplayif.com/?story=http://parchment.toolness.com/if-archive/games/zcode/gostak.z5.js
Argh, I can't reb anything and it doesn't recognise any dapes. Tips?

Edit 2:
Nevermind. I distunked glauds so hopefully it will be smooth sailing from now on...

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orthogon
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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby orthogon » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:21 pm UTC

J Thomas wrote:
orthogon wrote:(Thanks to J Thomas for bringing the fascinating subject of doshes and gostaks to my attention.)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gostak
http://iplayif.com/?story=http://parchm ... stak.z5.js

I did initially think you'd made the words up, but then I googled it and found that it was over a century old. However it's not as old as Through the Looking Glass (1871), so really Lewis Carroll got there first with the Jabberwocky. As Klear points out though, Jabberwocky definitely elicits an emotional response, presumably because of onomatopoeia and similarity to real English words, whereas the whole point of the doshes and gostaks is that they should be pure syntax and not contain a hint of semantics. I don't find them totally satisfactory, though, for this purpose: "dosh" is a word, and "doshes" doesn't exist only because "dosh" (money) is an uncountable noun. Similarly "dim" is a verb and "dis-" is a common prefix, so "disdim" already has a meaning: "to undo the effect of dimming" (perhaps by turning the lights back up or shining a torch on something). Yet strangely "disdim" conveys the opposite meaning to me, probably because it has strong hints of "diminish". As for gostaks: these are obviously medium-sized rodents native to eastern Europe.

[Edit]: First documented use of "dosh" according to the OED was in 1953, so Ingraham predated it by half a century. When he coined it, it really was meaningless.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby Klear » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:51 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:As for gostaks: these are obviously medium-sized rodents native to eastern Europe.


I was about to reply how my feeling is quite different (especially since English isn't my first language), but that's actually pretty accurate, though I'm imagining a bigger quadruped mammal, possibly with small tusks.

As for doshes - I can't help reading it as "dishes", so "distims" automatically becomes "washes". I never heard to word dosh.

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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:30 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:As for gostaks: these are obviously medium-sized rodents native to eastern Europe.

They're rodents of usual size?

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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby orthogon » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:46 pm UTC

Klear wrote:
orthogon wrote:As for gostaks: these are obviously medium-sized rodents native to eastern Europe.


I was about to reply how my feeling is quite different (especially since English isn't my first language), but that's actually pretty accurate, though I'm imagining a bigger quadruped mammal, possibly with small tusks.

As for doshes - I can't help reading it as "dishes", so "distims" automatically becomes "washes". I never heard to word dosh.

How careless of me. Once I had read it as "disdims" I must have seen it that way several times despite the contrary evidence of my eyes. Perhaps similar to your "dishes". Just goes to show the Bayesian process we all apply when reading.

I like the tusks and have added them to my mental picture, thanks!
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby orthogon » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:02 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
orthogon wrote:As for gostaks: these are obviously medium-sized rodents native to eastern Europe.

They're rodents of usual size?

You took me right back to tvtropes, where I spent my time before I discovered xkcd. Would they be R.O.u.S.?
I am having second thoughts now klear has pointed out my error. I was happy to imagine a rodent disdimming a dosh, but to distim something sounds like an operation that requires opposable thumbs.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby Klear » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:09 pm UTC

That game is simply wonderful. Thanks J Thomas!

I've got like 103 camlings and am already dealing with stuff like:

>doatch to the naft of loddle-deeked gitches about the glauds
There is no disbosh.


I'm pretty confident I've identified quite a few useful words: "go", "take", "see", "look", "interesting" and maybe others. A lot of other words are floating in my brain and already have some kind of flavour, if not meaning. In any case, the process of learning and deducing new things is very pleasant to me.

It also reminds me strongly of the Gobliiins series for some reason.

In any case, I've played text games like this way before I could speak decent English, so I have a kind of training with these things =)

Edit: Forgot to mention, the game totally destroyed my workflow...

orthogon wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
orthogon wrote:As for gostaks: these are obviously medium-sized rodents native to eastern Europe.

They're rodents of usual size?

You took me right back to tvtropes, where I spent my time before I discovered xkcd. Would they be R.O.u.S.?
I am having second thoughts now klear has pointed out my error. I was happy to imagine a rodent disdimming a dosh, but to distim something sounds like an operation that requires opposable thumbs.


Definitely, though gostaks are surely some kind of animal. Well, I suppose they could be low-ranking soldiers in the Mongol horde, but I think that's a coincidence and the etymologies are unrelated. I think that despite distimming is definitely a job for opposable thumbs, the original sentence is probably meant to sound absurd, or perchance allegorical and should not be taken at face value.

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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby orthogon » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:10 pm UTC

Klear wrote:Edit: Forgot to mention, the game totally destroyed my workflow...

I was thinking "nice cross reference to the Workflow thread", then I noticed that this is the Workflow thread...

Over the last few hours, the whole thing has been taking on more of a nautical theme in my mind. If you'll indulge me, I imagine the captain yelling "Distim the gostak!". This task is always carried out by the doshes. However, a gostak in its fully timmed state is a frumious thing, and a careless or inexperienced dosh could easily end up getting himself and his fellow doshes distimmed by the gostak instead. (Eventually, of course, this led to the introduction of the safety gostak.)

As the old adage says: Doshes distim gostak: not news. Gostak distims doshes: news.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Klear
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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby Klear » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:55 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Klear wrote:Edit: Forgot to mention, the game totally destroyed my workflow...

I was thinking "nice cross reference to the Workflow thread", then I noticed that this is the Workflow thread...

Over the last few hours, the whole thing has been taking on more of a nautical theme in my mind. If you'll indulge me, I imagine the captain yelling "Distim the gostak!". This task is always carried out by the doshes. However, a gostak in its fully timmed state is a frumious thing, and a careless or inexperienced dosh could easily end up getting himself and his fellow doshes distimmed by the gostak instead. (Eventually, of course, this led to the introduction of the safety gostak.)

As the old adage says: Doshes distim gostak: not news. Gostak distims doshes: news.


What kind of weird backwards world are you living in? Gostaks normally dismit doshes.

In other news - In that halpock, there were are two glauds crenned in the loff lutt of the delcot.

Then this happened:

You're tophthed, and you can't reb.

>gomb
Something glakes you in the tophthage!

*** You have been zanked ***


I guess I'll try again tomorrow, but I'm a little afraid that I will forget all the words I've identified so far...

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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby gormster » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:01 am UTC

Klear wrote:
RogueCynic wrote:I've heard said that a reasonable man adapts himself to his surroundings, while an unreasonable man adapts his surroundings to him. Therefore all progress is made by unreasonable people. Applying this concept to the comic would suggest that progress would be made by backing out of changes. Therefore, progress is a backward movement.


I've heard that if you start with a false or misinterpreted assumption, you can make quite absurd predictions...


I've heard that if you blather nonsense in the active voice, people will take you seriously. Especially if you start a few sentences with "therefore".
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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby Quicksilver » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:37 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
orthogon wrote:As for gostaks: these are obviously medium-sized rodents native to eastern Europe.

They're rodents of usual size?
Oh, I don't think they exist
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The Princess Bride <3

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Klear
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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby Klear » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:18 pm UTC

At last, I have gnurred! Rorm halpock! Had to tunk the brolges once, though.

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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby Morgan Wick » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:02 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:OK, OK, please forgive me. If the ribbon works for you, that's great: user Interfaces are incredibly subjective. I just wish they'd kept the menus, at least as an option.

The ribbon works great as a replacement for the menus, not so great as a replacement for customizable toolbars.

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Re: 1172: "Workflow"

Postby Hafting » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:02 pm UTC

nowhereman wrote:I remember trying to convince a guy that putting a window air conditioner in your car was not a good idea.


If you think that is a bad idea for a car, consider a fireplace. See http://www.vg.no/bil-og-motor/artikkel. ... d=10043238 Never mind that the article is in Norwegian, the pictures are all you need. :-)


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