1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:08 pm UTC

Updated animation, still with twerked gamma (0.2). I left out the frames from the previous scene.

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Updated list of corner pixel colors (NW/NE/SE/SW):
Spoiler:
np2352: #ffffff/#fefefe/#000000/#000000
np2353: #ffffff/#fcfcfc/#000000/#000000
np2354: #ffffff/#fbfbfb/#000000/#000000
np2355: #ffffff/#fafafa/#000000/#000000
np2356: #ffffff/#f9f9f9/#000000/#000000
np2357: #ffffff/#f7f7f7/#000000/#000000
np2358: #ffffff/#efefef/#000000/#000000
np2359: #ffffff/#e9e9e9/#000000/#000000
np2360: #fbfbfb/#e3e3e3/#000000/#000000
np2361: #f2f2f2/#dcdcdc/#000000/#000000
np2362: #e9e9e9/#d5d5d5/#000000/#000000
np2363: #dfdfdf/#cecece/#000000/#000000
np2364: #d5d5d5/#c6c6c6/#000000/#000000
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:10 pm UTC

I had to cheat and Book of Aubron because the suspense was killing me. :shock: :shock: :shock:

The sun?! Awesome!

I also see that a couple people have personal lil hatted-smilies in their sigs and while I don't know if there's a request going for the creator of said-smilies.. this is me requesting my very own personal hatted eye Val smiley. :mrgreen:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cari.j.elliot » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:11 pm UTC

Looking more and more like a sunset. Not really surprising, I suppose. How often do we examine a sunset frame-by-frame Outside, after all. Probably looks just like that.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angelastic » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:12 pm UTC

Waiiit... is the Sun getting smaller? Is it going away, thus causing the darkness and the strangeness of tides? ETA: And the cold?

it for
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edfel » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:13 pm UTC

mscha wrote:
edfel wrote:Perharps... the view has turned from 90°, and we're seeing the sunset from the top of the mountain as Cuegan will see it when they arrive in 50np or so (they'll arrive from behind, so they'll appear in the middle of the screen with their back turned to us). [but darkening pixels are still clouds: just dark because the sun is roughly behind]
By then it'll be a wonderfull mix of colorsgrays, and they'll say "wow, neat!"

Unlikely that the view has turned, since the pattern (shape) of the fade didn't change when the scene changed.


Good point.
So it might still be the view from the top, but they won't be surprised when they arrive (they'll be seeing this all along), just happy to be able to enjoy the view (or unhappy to un-joy the absence of aforementioned view, since everything is dark, and they'll be cold, wounded, tired _and_ alone on a mountain top for the night).

NB: I'm starting to agree towards the "gap-between-frame" theory, with the following constraints: they only sleep/eat/drink/do interesting stuff "inframe", and the gaps are quite regular, so that the distance covered between each scene stays, on average, roughly constant.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Bytes » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:14 pm UTC

Wasn't it the dead sea that someone thought the location was earlier? If so, would that be far enough North to give this angle?
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Re: Ketchup on the road

Postby Marsh'n » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:18 pm UTC

Having found the drafts feature, I'm going to try a spread Ketchup reply (from back at NP924 - 12NP while I was on the road for a day!). I suspect this will result in Wall-of-Text but I'll try to be brief. @pagepope927 maybe my record will be "most rambling ketchup"
However, @karl.j.elliot:
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Re: Right/left/east/west - same issue. Sucks in contradancing. Does it have to do with our own bilateral symmetry? I think we don't confuse up/down much either...
Re: darkfade - I am thinking "fog" rather than "cloud" - rolling down the mountain.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:29 pm UTC

Marsh'n wrote:@EternalDensity Count me as another fan of the title-story. Only while I wait for it I keep forgetting to look for it and I'm sure I'm missing pieces. Sigh.
Just do an "advanced search" and put EternalDestiny in the poster field. Read backwards from the start (or reverse the direction of sort).

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:30 pm UTC

cari.j.elliot wrote:Looking more and more like a sunset. Not really surprising, I suppose. How often do we examine a sunset frame-by-frame Outside, after all. Probably looks just like that.

No, darkness is filling the frame faster than the assumed sun is setting. There's more going on...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eutychus » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:30 pm UTC

Angelastic wrote:Waiiit... is the Sun getting smaller? Is it going away, thus causing the darkness and the strangeness of tides? ETA: And the cold?

it for


It certainly looks as if it's getting smaller to me. But it reminds me more of the videos of the recent Russian meteorite.
If it's setting, can somebody more astronomically minded than me update the speculation on latitude and hemisphere - it's 'setting' from left to right.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Dracomax » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:37 pm UTC

It's a UFOFootnote seeking out Baconsemenbabycancer!


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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:41 pm UTC

The Darkening has inspired me:

Goodbye Blue Sky
(in the style of Pink Floyd's Goodbye Blue Sky)

"Look mommy, there's no Raptor up in the sky."

Ooh oooooh oooooh ooooooh ooooooooh
Ooh oooooh oooooh ooooooh ooooooooh
Ooh oooooh oooooh ooooooh ooooooooh

Did did did did did you see the frightened ones
Did did did did did you see the falling sun
Did did did did did you ever wonder why they didn't stay in the shelter with the promise of a place to stay and rest beneath the clear blue sky

Ooh oooooh oooooh ooooooh ooooooooh
Ooh oooooh oooooh ooooooh ooooooooh

Did did did did did you see the frightened ones
Did did did did did you see the falling sun
Lucky is now long gone but Megan's pain lingers on

Goodbye blue sky
Goodbye blue sky
Goodbye
Goodbye
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:45 pm UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:The Darkening has inspired me:

Goodbye Blue Sky

Now I know what I'm going to listen to tonight :)
But shouldn't that be Goodbye White Sky? ;)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:46 pm UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:Goodbye Blue Sky
(in the style of Pink Floyd's Goodbye Blue Sky)

⁴!
(Shouldn't that be a “white sky”, though? [Ninja'd by Zorin_75.])
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:47 pm UTC

Zorin_75 wrote:
k.bookbinder wrote:The Darkening has inspired me:

Goodbye Blue Sky

Now I know what I'm going to listen to tonight :)
But shouldn't that be Goodbye White Sky? ;)


If a black flag can turn red with Megan's blood, I figure a white sky can be blue. :)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby waveney » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:49 pm UTC

Eutychus wrote:It certainly looks as if it's getting smaller to me. But it reminds me more of the videos of the recent Russian meteorite.
If it's setting, can somebody more astronomically minded than me update the speculation on latitude and hemisphere - it's 'setting' from left to right.


Yes I am astronomically minded...

Its coming down fairly steeply at about 30 degrees from virtical - we must be looking roughly west for this to happen. This must be in the southern hemisphere, and between 10 degrees south (at Northern Summer solstice) and 50 degrees south (at Southern Summer solstice). Any further away and it could not set at that angle.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby rvloon » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:49 pm UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:
Zorin_75 wrote:
k.bookbinder wrote:The Darkening has inspired me:

Goodbye Blue Sky

Now I know what I'm going to listen to tonight :)
But shouldn't that be Goodbye White Sky? ;)


If a black flag can turn red with Megan's blood, I figure a white sky can be blue. :)


But don't you make my white sky
But don't you make my white sky... blue-oo-hoo-hoo

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eutychus » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:52 pm UTC

waveney wrote:Yes I am astronomically minded...

Its coming down fairly steeply at about 30 degrees from virtical - we must be looking roughly west for this to happen. This must be in the southern hemisphere, and between 10 degrees south (at Northern Summer solstice) and 50 degrees south (at Southern Summer solstice). Any further away and it could not set at that angle.


So for the geographically minded... where does this leave the Madagascanists? (Hemisphere sounds good, but I'm in a meeting here and can't check latitudes...)

/Randallversalist here
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:55 pm UTC

waveney wrote:
Eutychus wrote:It certainly looks as if it's getting smaller to me. But it reminds me more of the videos of the recent Russian meteorite.
If it's setting, can somebody more astronomically minded than me update the speculation on latitude and hemisphere - it's 'setting' from left to right.


Yes I am astronomically minded...

Its coming down fairly steeply at about 30 degrees from virtical - we must be looking roughly west for this to happen. This must be in the southern hemisphere, and between 10 degrees south (at Northern Summer solstice) and 50 degrees south (at Southern Summer solstice). Any further away and it could not set at that angle.

Southern hemisphere? Are you sure you're astronomically minded? Image
Last time I saw a sunset (on the northern hemisphere), the sun certainly moved from left (SW) to right (NW). On the southern hemisphere that would be the other way 'round.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby moody7277 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:59 pm UTC

Eutychus wrote:
waveney wrote:Yes I am astronomically minded...

Its coming down fairly steeply at about 30 degrees from virtical - we must be looking roughly west for this to happen. This must be in the southern hemisphere, and between 10 degrees south (at Northern Summer solstice) and 50 degrees south (at Southern Summer solstice). Any further away and it could not set at that angle.


So for the geographically minded... where does this leave the Madagascanists? (Hemisphere sounds good, but I'm in a meeting here and can't check latitudes...)

/Randallversalist here


Madagascar is between 12 and 25 1/2 degrees south. The way what we're calling the cloud is affecting what we're calling the sun does seem reminicent of smoke, based on a couple of times I'd seen it in southern California (B&W removes what would be the clincher in that case, meaning the reddening caused by smoke).
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:01 pm UTC

waveney wrote:
Eutychus wrote:It certainly looks as if it's getting smaller to me. But it reminds me more of the videos of the recent Russian meteorite.
If it's setting, can somebody more astronomically minded than me update the speculation on latitude and hemisphere - it's 'setting' from left to right.


Yes I am astronomically minded...

Its coming down fairly steeply at about 30 degrees from virtical - we must be looking roughly west for this to happen. This must be in the southern hemisphere, and between 10 degrees south (at Northern Summer solstice) and 50 degrees south (at Southern Summer solstice). Any further away and it could not set at that angle.


Does that mean I may be correct about our location, from a viewing perspective? (see ASCII map below).

..............W .................
.......Cuegan -->._//\\_.....N....
......S.... _//.....\\_ .........
......___//...........\\___.....
.................... E.............
.............../\..................
.............//..\\................
...............||..................
...Our Viewing Perspective....
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:01 pm UTC

Sun settONG

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:01 pm UTC

waveney wrote:
Eutychus wrote:It certainly looks as if it's getting smaller to me. But it reminds me more of the videos of the recent Russian meteorite.
If it's setting, can somebody more astronomically minded than me update the speculation on latitude and hemisphere - it's 'setting' from left to right.


Yes I am astronomically minded...

Its coming down fairly steeply at about 30 degrees from virtical - we must be looking roughly west for this to happen. This must be in the southern hemisphere, and between 10 degrees south (at Northern Summer solstice) and 50 degrees south (at Southern Summer solstice). Any further away and it could not set at that angle.


If it is setting anywhere close to vertical then yes obviously it must be in the general west. This means it's also going from apparent south to north which happens where I've spent my entire life: the northern hemisphere.

Edit: yes I concede the sun is going obviously going down, but I stand by my assertion that the darkening is most entirely from clouds.
Last edited by Kieryn on Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:03 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Wildhound » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:03 pm UTC

The sky doesn't begin to darken until the sun's disk begins to sink below the horizon. So for that reason, I am not buying into the sunset proposal.

I looks like smoke / cloud / fog to me.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cari.j.elliot » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:04 pm UTC

Outside sunsets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk35TjdhrdM
This sunset from California, USA, appears to follow a very similar trajectory to the OTC scene.
The color and contrast is not helpful, but appears to display a similar darkening. I have chosen a stop-motion video as an example for a closer parallel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxWOblPb-IE
This example shows a similar trajectory, again, but a darkening off the sky from the opposite side of our OTC scene. Possibly affected by the light of the city.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:04 pm UTC

Animation update:

Image

Frame corner colors (NW/NE/SW/SE):
Spoiler:
np2352: #ffffff/#fefefe/#000000/#000000
np2353: #ffffff/#fcfcfc/#000000/#000000
np2354: #ffffff/#fbfbfb/#000000/#000000
np2355: #ffffff/#fafafa/#000000/#000000
np2356: #ffffff/#f9f9f9/#000000/#000000
np2357: #ffffff/#f7f7f7/#000000/#000000
np2358: #ffffff/#efefef/#000000/#000000
np2359: #ffffff/#e9e9e9/#000000/#000000
np2360: #fbfbfb/#e3e3e3/#000000/#000000
np2361: #f2f2f2/#dcdcdc/#000000/#000000
np2362: #e9e9e9/#d5d5d5/#000000/#000000
np2363: #dfdfdf/#cecece/#000000/#000000
np2364: #d5d5d5/#c6c6c6/#000000/#000000
np2365: #d0d0d0/#c2c2c2/#000000/#000000
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:05 pm UTC

The sun is going to the right as it sets; therefore, we must conclude (sadly) that this is north of the equator. Is there anywhere north of the equator where baobabs grow?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edo » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:05 pm UTC

mscha wrote:
waveney wrote:
Eutychus wrote:It certainly looks as if it's getting smaller to me. But it reminds me more of the videos of the recent Russian meteorite.
If it's setting, can somebody more astronomically minded than me update the speculation on latitude and hemisphere - it's 'setting' from left to right.


Yes I am astronomically minded...

Its coming down fairly steeply at about 30 degrees from virtical - we must be looking roughly west for this to happen. This must be in the southern hemisphere, and between 10 degrees south (at Northern Summer solstice) and 50 degrees south (at Southern Summer solstice). Any further away and it could not set at that angle.

Southern hemisphere? Are you sure you're astronomically minded? Image
Last time I saw a sunset (on the northern hemisphere), the sun certainly moved from left (SW) to right (NW). On the southern hemisphere that would be the other way 'round.


and it came down with a pretty steep angle a few days ago, about 60deg. (Northern hemisphere, 43degN latitude.) This is roughly the farthest north they can be and ~10degN is the farthest south Someone calculate the exact angle, we've got 3 clear pics now.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Rule110 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:06 pm UTC

I'm going to buck consensus and say that it is sunset we're seeing, and not overspreading clouds or smoke or whatnot. If you look at just the sun's movement, it looks like just before sunset, and if you look at just the darkening in the gamma-adjusted animation mscha posted, it looks like just after sunset. Randall is exercising some artistic license and showing the setting disc and the beginning of dusk simultaneously instead of one followed by the other. Keep in mind that, so far, you can't even see the sun disc clearly without modifying the image. He might even have added the sun disc to try to make it clearer that it's sunset rather than clouds or smoke, and that backfired because he didn't expect us to nitpick the timing and the lighting.

Randall has cut away to a generic landscape for the show (just as a movie might cut to a separate stock shot of a sunset) for production reasons. He can't spend too much of his time on Time, and this way he can deal with the sky gradients without having to also draw Cuegan or changing backgrounds. I predict that when it's done, we'll cut back to Cuegan higher on the mountain. (I don't believe the current sunset scene is of the top of the mountain, because the tree is too robust to be growing on a mountaintop.)

Another prediction: just before the sky goes dark, the silhouette of the raptorcat will stalk across the frame.

I have two other reasons for thinking it's normal nightfall rather than a storm or fire. The first is what I've come to think of as The OTC's Razor: "New elements in the images should be interpreted in the way that explains the images adequately while minimizing the new elements in the story." For instance, a growing speck in the sky is far more likely to be a bird than a plane full of paratroopers. A sunset leads to fewer new elements than a sunset plus rain or wildfire. The second reason relates to an earlier prediction of mine.

However, I could be wrong. This could even be some event that even Megan and Cueball don't expect or understand, like the sea rising. "Why is this night different from all other nights?" Megan will ask. Then they'll have to stop for a seder.
Last edited by Rule110 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:07 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NoMouse » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:06 pm UTC

I just came to see what's new and...

W :shock: W

So it's been just one day after all? Does it mean that when they were talking about days of walking along the sea, they were talking about the time before Time? :?:

taixzo wrote:The sun is going to the right as it sets; therefore, we must conclude (sadly) that this is north of the equator. Is there anywhere north of the equator where baobabs grow?
What if the Time runs backwards? :D
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:10 pm UTC

Ok. My 2nd theory, if not clouds and assuming that the darkening is actually due to a setting sun:

The changing lighting indicates to me that a larger brighter sun actually already just set and the one remaining is a smaller not quite as bright star. They are therefore not on any version of earth or even our solar system.
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Left/Right etc

Postby CameronCat » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:12 pm UTC

@ Marsh'n: Contra dancing...Yay! (Me too, but without directional impairment.)

Re: the darkening...opinion here says storm clouds coming in over the mountain. Very common to see the sun (moon) obscured and reduced as the clouds advance. Predix: storm or some form of precip begins soon; our stalwart pair seek shelter in the structure atop the mountain. They plot their future and the dialog is perhaps revealing to the Waiters.

Ob Metaphorists: a dark pall is falling over the story -- attacks, injuries, storms. What does it all mean? Trouble in Randallworld?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby CasCat » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:13 pm UTC

NoMouse wrote:I just came to see what's new and...

W :shock: W

So it's been just one day after all? Does it mean that when they were talking about days of walking along the sea, they were talking about the time before Time? :?:

taixzo wrote:The sun is going to the right as it sets; therefore, we must conclude (sadly) that this is north of the equator. Is there anywhere north of the equator where baobabs grow?
What if the Time runs backwards? :D


I think there have been several days; maybe even several weeks. But this is the first sunset that Randall has chosen to actually show us.
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Re: Left/Right etc

Postby Dracomax » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:13 pm UTC

CameronCat wrote:@ Marsh'n: Contra dancing...Yay! (Me too, but without directional impairment.)

Re: the darkening...opinion here says storm clouds coming in over the mountain. Very common to see the sun (moon) obscured and reduced as the clouds advance. Predix: storm or some form of precip begins soon; our stalwart pair seek shelter in the structure atop the mountain. They plot their future and the dialog is perhaps revealing to the Waiters.

Ob Metaphorists: a dark pall is falling over the story -- attacks, injuries, storms. What does it all mean? Trouble in Randallworld?

It obviously means that everything is going well, and that GLR is having the best week ever.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby TheMinim » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:16 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:Blitz faster! The future needs you!


Nice sig. I can see it back from page 94. Anyone specific or just blitzers in general? My guess is the latter.

Edit: Message from FutureMinim:
Hurry up with that Blitz! You've got the parts I need to get back to the future again!
Last edited by TheMinim on Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:50 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby thirds » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:16 pm UTC

If the darkening is to indicate the setting sun, then it can only be this way because of artistic license, forcing the sun to be visible so we can see it set. It simply does not happen this way. I think it's more likely these are supposed to be clouds darkening the sky at the same time the sun is setting, so that it's visible.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:17 pm UTC

Rule110 wrote:I'm going to buck consensus and say that it is sunset we're seeing, and not overspreading clouds or smoke or whatnot. If you look at just the sun's movement, it looks like just before sunset, and if you look at just the darkening in the gamma-adjusted animation mscha posted, it looks like just after sunset. Randall is exercising some artistic license and showing the setting disc and the beginning of dusk simultaneously instead of one followed by the other.

Brightness is moving faster than the sun and even in a different direction. Really doesn't sound like something the OTA wouldn't care about...

he didn't expect us to nitpick the timing and the lighting.

Oh, I think the subtlety of many OTC details suggests quite the opposite. ;)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eutychus » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:18 pm UTC

Kieryn wrote:Ok. My 2nd theory, if not clouds and assuming that the darkening is actually due to a setting sun:

The changing lighting indicates to me that a larger brighter sun actually already just set and the one remaining is a smaller not quite as bright star.


I am now completely confused about hemispheres but I have been thinking along the same lines as the above.

Besides, stars are now visible behind the setting sun, so it's not a cloud.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:18 pm UTC

So, what would all this mean if Time takes place on Cassini?
List¹ of all Frames of Time and after Time.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Dracomax » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:18 pm UTC

Zorin_75 wrote:
Rule110 wrote:I'm going to buck consensus and say that it is sunset we're seeing, and not overspreading clouds or smoke or whatnot. If you look at just the sun's movement, it looks like just before sunset, and if you look at just the darkening in the gamma-adjusted animation mscha posted, it looks like just after sunset. Randall is exercising some artistic license and showing the setting disc and the beginning of dusk simultaneously instead of one followed by the other.

Brightness is moving faster than the sun and even in a different direction. Really doesn't sound like something the OTA wouldn't care about...

he didn't expect us to nitpick the timing and the lighting.

Oh, I think the subtlety of many OTC details suggests quite the opposite. ;)

The molpycat that was following them would agree with Zorin.
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im afraid so, but let me tell you something, the best people usualy are.”
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