1190: "Time"

This forum is for the individual discussion thread that goes with each new comic.

Moderators: Moderators General, Prelates, Magistrates

User avatar
SBN
Saved
Posts: 2237
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:15 pm UTC
Location: No longer in the home of the raptorcats, now in the home of the raptorcats.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:25 am UTC

Chinchokmataa wrote:
The end result will be that it'll be awesome :D
But more then that we can find out:
-Something about the way Randal created the language
-If it is just a modern language written in a weird system (I'm personally holding out on the possibility that it is some sort of "futurized" English)

And also, I don't think we should limit ourselves to just trying to seek the knowledge that is "useful." Why can't we know all of the things?

We can't know all of the things, but we can know any of the things.
charlie_grumbles wrote:Let me disagree just a bit. You don't need to think of programming (or computer science) as a career. Programming is a useful skill in any field. Math, the sciences, humanities, ... Big data needs dealing with. Literature is analyzed using programs. If you can't write your own, you are at the mercy of those who can, both professionally and as a citizen. Learn to program, but find something satisfying as a career.

And I've made a career of fixing the programming of those that thought like that. And, I found it quite satisfying. Not saying no one should learn anything about it unless they intend to make it a career, but we do need career programmers. Most of us can probably do a little bit of home or car repair, but we also probably have tasks we turn over to someone else, recognizing we don't have the needed skills to do it effectively. Sure, learn enough that you aren't paying to replace the flux capacitor, but do the part you're good at, get someone else to do the part they are good at. That's not being at their mercy, that's everyone working to their strengths.
astrotter wrote:It is not particularly clear to me at this time that we are not overanalyzing this...

Randalspeed thunk, iskinner, and other blitzers! Notes from the before-was improve the after-when.
Some Ways to Time
NetWeasel wrote:I want to put that in my sig... BUT I CAN'T!!!!

User avatar
cellocgw
Posts: 2068
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:40 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cellocgw » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:44 am UTC

susanoodin wrote:books, where do you get books from, to me this looks like she is handing out sitting implements


Followed by Rosetta saying "They use the cream, or they get the hose."


And geewhillikers folks, ya sure posted a ton while I was off grabbing a few "c"s (well, if we're all coma-ing, they aren't "z"s any more).

ETA -- if ever a post deserved to be a goat, this one is. How come goats don't get a decree?
Last edited by cellocgw on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:19 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
resume
Former OTTer
Vote cellocgw for President 2020. #ScienceintheWhiteHouse http://cellocgw.wordpress.com
"The Planck length is 3.81779e-33 picas." -- keithl
" Earth weighs almost exactly π milliJupiters" -- what-if #146, note 7

User avatar
jjjdavidson
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:40 pm UTC
Location: Outside: The Ozarks, North America ─ OTTside: Lost in the 1400s

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:50 am UTC

Posting when it's late and I'm tired ⇒ I leave out things I intended to write.
jjjdavidson wrote:Post rate by time of day for the sixteen users who've given me permission to graph their data (and for me). User by user, these graphs show how a user's post rate varies from average throughout the hours of the day. I've added my own comments for each graph. PNG versions for the SVG-handicapped.

First, my original post should have said "users who've given me permission to graph their data" instead of "users who've requested their graphs"; I've edited the original post.

As mscha noted earlier, my graphs originally had each line normalized to its own subset of the data. The line for weekday posts showed variation from the average post rate for weekdays, and the weekend line from the average for weekends. But I realized many people would want to compare weekday and weekend activity, so these lines now compare to the overall average post rate. The lines are shaped the same, but displaced in proportion to the overall post rate. (That change involved a lot more work than I anticipated, and gave odder-looking results than I anticipated. I spent more time number-twiddling with pencil and paper trying to convince myself I'd done it right than I spent actually changing the code.)

A couple more details: I fixed a bug in how my original code handled intervals with no posts at all. And I talked earlier about using a polar graph ─ well, I tried it and it looked ugly, so I stuck with X/Y coordinates.
────────────────
Yeep! Page pope! Um, give someone you care about a hug. And
Spoiler:
wait for it.
Don't worry. Feed squirpys.
Don't wait for me.
My OTC/OTT graphsMay include spoilers!
Helpful links: Time Wiki FAQrot-13 / Morse decoders
He won! He won! He won!
Knight Temporal. :) Ex-Loopist. :(

User avatar
NoMouse
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:05 pm UTC
Location: Czech Republic

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NoMouse » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:53 am UTC

Latent22 wrote:Floating River ONG
Spoiler:
Image
Looks like the river was the IKEA where all the building stuff came from.

Great! I think Edfel should mark it as IKEA river in the map. :)

ETA: Oh wait, he hasn't mapped stuff that happened after the long night yet. I guess he's busy or away in the Outside currently.
Last edited by NoMouse on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:58 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Time. The final frontier. These are the voyages of Cueball and Megan. Its continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before.

User avatar
Eliram
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:58 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eliram » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:56 am UTC

Latent22 wrote:OK OTVO voting time!
Pick your favorite Cueball and Meagan Voice.
Results will be displayed here



I liked best:
C5
M2 & M3

I think it's because these samples sound the most as how I imagined their voices in my head + easy to understand + have more natural feeling.
It was not easy to choose...
It's about time.

User avatar
Neil_Boekend
Posts: 3220
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:35 am UTC
Location: Yes.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:00 pm UTC

jjjdavidson wrote:
Spoiler:
Posting when it's late and I'm tired ⇒ I leave out things I intended to write.
jjjdavidson wrote:Post rate by time of day for the sixteen users who've given me permission to graph their data (and for me). User by user, these graphs show how a user's post rate varies from average throughout the hours of the day. I've added my own comments for each graph. PNG versions for the SVG-handicapped.

First, my original post should have said "users who've given me permission to graph their data" instead of "users who've requested their graphs"; I've edited the original post.

As mscha noted earlier, my graphs originally had each line normalized to its own subset of the data. The line for weekday posts showed variation from the average post rate for weekdays, and the weekend line from the average for weekends. But I realized many people would want to compare weekday and weekend activity, so these lines now compare to the overall average post rate. The lines are shaped the same, but displaced in proportion to the overall post rate. (That change involved a lot more work than I anticipated, and gave odder-looking results than I anticipated. I spent more time number-twiddling with pencil and paper trying to convince myself I'd done it right than I spent actually changing the code.)

A couple more details: I fixed a bug in how my original code handled intervals with no posts at all. And I talked earlier about using a polar graph ─ well, I tried it and it looked ugly, so I stuck with X/Y coordinates.

────────────────
Yeep! Page pope! Um, give someone you care about a hug. And
Spoiler:
wait for it.

Aww, but I can't hug. I could float towards someone with open arms, but hugging requires physical contact and I'd float right through the one I'd try to hug!
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

User avatar
charlie_grumbles
Posts: 1004
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:07 pm UTC
Location: Self Imposed Exile

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:02 pm UTC

SBN wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:Let me disagree just a bit. You don't need to think of programming (or computer science) as a career. Programming is a useful skill in any field. Math, the sciences, humanities, ... Big data needs dealing with. Literature is analyzed using programs. If you can't write your own, you are at the mercy of those who can, both professionally and as a citizen. Learn to program, but find something satisfying as a career.

And I've made a career of fixing the programming of those that thought like that. And, I found it quite satisfying. Not saying no one should learn anything about it unless they intend to make it a career, but we do need career programmers. Most of us can probably do a little bit of home or car repair, but we also probably have tasks we turn over to someone else, recognizing we don't have the needed skills to do it effectively. Sure, learn enough that you aren't paying to replace the flux capacitor, but do the part you're good at, get someone else to do the part they are good at. That's not being at their mercy, that's everyone working to their strengths.

Hmmm. You sound awfully negative here. Leave it to experts. If you want me as a consultant, I'll charge you $2500 per day. Plus expenses. It will take me a day, maybe less, maybe more, to understand your problem.

I'll do a great job for you, but the clock is running. On the other hand, you already understand your problem. If you only knew how to program (12 year olds learn it every day) you could possibly solve your own problem in an hour.

But don't try to be a professional (programmer or mechanic) if you aren't. I'll let my recommendation stand and continue to encourage you to learn to program, just as I'll encourage you to learn enough maths so that you aren't able to be misled (and know when your program -or mine- is producing garbage). Not every program needs to be 100,000 lines of code.

I don't want this to go to flames, so I'll say more in PM's if you like.

ETA and if you CAN program and still need to hire me or SBN, you'll be in a much better place to shorten our work or evaluate the results.
Last edited by charlie_grumbles on Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:04 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Lurking. Watching. Thinking. Writing. Waiting.
-- Charlie Grumbles

User avatar
foilman
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:48 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby foilman » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:03 pm UTC

Beware the people in the hills ONG.
Image

User avatar
HES
Posts: 4896
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 7:13 pm UTC
Location: England

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:08 pm UTC

*Bottle containing thick red liquid*
Gedeon wrote:I think it is

"They understand nothing, so (thus) they will tend to matters".

Also, hi! :)

Hi Gedeon! I completely agree with this interpretation

ofvn2vw1872 wrote:My vote on the bag offer is that it is a genuine offer, concealed as a trap by poor command of the language.

That's exactly what they want you to think!

Tatiana wrote:Oh and the latest frame seems to be "What river?" Making the (degree sign) = (question mark) quite certain at this point.

It's nice to see some of our earlier assumptions being confirmed. It seems GLR is doing his best to make this puzzle solvable.

jjjdavidson and yappobiscuits on graphs and sleeping
Spoiler:
jjjdavidson wrote:Post rate by time of day

Neat, thanks! Oddly, I would have thought my post rate was more opposite to the usual, as there often seems to be nobody around, but I suppose I post less if there are fewer people to reply to.
yappobiscuits wrote:
Yappobiscuits is in England, four hours ahead of RDT (or is it three?) Yappo's peak time is from 5-9pm RDT (9pm to 1am his time?) while his slack time is from 5am to 1pm (9am to 5pm his time?) reinforcing Andy M. Stewart's assertion that musicians have "no concept of how to function during daylight hours."

Haha! Yeah, you caught me there...

I thought you'd always been up later than me - even on my student-with-jack-all-to-be-doing days


Thanks for all the support on my Portal 2 map - it's now made it to the front page of the Portal 2 workshop, top 10 this week! Unfortunately, now that it's there, the outsiders have discovered it, and the context and in-jokes (admittedly few in this map) are a little lost on them. I'm working on a much more reference-filled part 2, but I'm away from my main computer so it's slow progress

Back to the present - "they don't like us" - does this shed better light on her earlier "seen by anybody" comment?
He/Him/His Image

User avatar
Neil_Boekend
Posts: 3220
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:35 am UTC
Location: Yes.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:10 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:
SBN wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:Let me disagree just a bit. You don't need to think of programming (or computer science) as a career. Programming is a useful skill in any field. Math, the sciences, humanities, ... Big data needs dealing with. Literature is analyzed using programs. If you can't write your own, you are at the mercy of those who can, both professionally and as a citizen. Learn to program, but find something satisfying as a career.

And I've made a career of fixing the programming of those that thought like that. And, I found it quite satisfying. Not saying no one should learn anything about it unless they intend to make it a career, but we do need career programmers. Most of us can probably do a little bit of home or car repair, but we also probably have tasks we turn over to someone else, recognizing we don't have the needed skills to do it effectively. Sure, learn enough that you aren't paying to replace the flux capacitor, but do the part you're good at, get someone else to do the part they are good at. That's not being at their mercy, that's everyone working to their strengths.

Hmmm. You sound awfully negative here. Leave it to experts. If you want me as a consultant, I'll charge you $2500 per day. Plus expenses. It will take me a day, maybe less, maybe more, to understand your problem.

I'll do a great job for you, but the clock is running. On the other hand, you already understand your problem. If you only knew how to program (12 year olds learn it every day) you could possibly solve your own problem in an hour.

But don't try to be a professional (programmer or mechanic) if you aren't. I'll let my recommendation stand and continue to encourage you to learn to program, just as I'll encourage you to learn enough maths so that you aren't able to be misled (and know when your program -or mine- is producing garbage). Not every program needs to be 100,000 lines of code.

I don't want this to go to flames, so I'll say more in PM's if you like.

ETA and if you CAN program and still need to hire me or SBN, you'll be in a much better place to shorten our work or evaluate the results.

So my way of working (I tell my boss: "I can make that more efficient and that more efficient but to make that more efficient we need a real programmer") isn't all that wrong?
Spoiler:
I can't do much beyond Excel macros. It's fun but some people try to much with it and then it gets extremely messy.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

User avatar
xpatiate
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:02 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby xpatiate » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:13 pm UTC

HES wrote:Back to the present - "they don't like us" - does this shed better light on her earlier "seen by anybody" comment?


Yes I definitely think it does. Will resist quoting myself at length on the topic and just link back to what I said a while ago, speculating that Cuegan are pretty much on their own. Of course there is still some ambiguity in that "us" here could mean "us two" or a larger group. And there are still the mysterious tents, which may or may not belong to Cuegan, to the people in the hills, or to other people in between. Still, blanks are being slowly filled in! Exciting times :D

User avatar
higgs-boson
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:00 pm UTC
Location: Europe (UTC + 4 newpix)

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:16 pm UTC

Woha, political background?!

Damn, now all seems clear. They entered the Lonely Mountain, Rosetta isn't a beautiful girl, but Rosli, a giant dwarf and current the King Under The Lonely Mountain. Our travelling couple isn't coming from somewhere but live in Like-town, Cueball's Name isn't Cueball but Bard. Megan isn't Megan but an optical illusion / dimension fault / undocumented sidekick / something Jackson invented to provide cause for FanService scenes (pick at least one).
Apostolic Visitator, Holiest of Holy Fun-Havers
You have questions about XKCD: "Time"? There's a whole Wiki dedicated to it!

User avatar
NoMouse
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:05 pm UTC
Location: Czech Republic

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NoMouse » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:19 pm UTC

Latent22 wrote:OK OTVO voting time!
Pick your favorite Cueball and Meagan Voice.
Results will be displayed here

C5 and C6
M3

C5's voice fits well to my image of Cueball, as well as C6's and I very much like the acting of C6.
M3 - again, it fits the best for me and the yawn-part is very well played.

But - what with the standard script that all submitters would have to read for better comparison? Or is this just first round or warm up or something?
Time. The final frontier. These are the voyages of Cueball and Megan. Its continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before.

User avatar
mscha
Posts: 6908
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:21 pm UTC
Location: NL
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:19 pm UTC

Code: Select all

MOLPY
   U


⁷some graphs, jjjdavidson!
mschaDT is 6 hours ahead of RDT, by the way. (The first few daysoutside of Time were mschaST, 5 hours ahead, but I'd just ignore that.) England (and the rest of Britain) is 5 hours ahead of RDT, which makes yappo even more daylight averse that you thought. Image

Finally, we're getting some answers! So far, we've almost only had confirmation of things we already concluded (and yes, we had already concluded that the IKEA materials came from their seasonal river). The only thing that is really new, is that the people in the hills don't like Cuegan. Image
List¹ of all Frames of Time and after Time.
New here? Questions? Check the wiki.
Don't worry, feed molpies⁴.
Image
Holy Croce
Default footnotes; standard OTT-np2166m 1.2:
Spoiler:
Image
Image

User avatar
charlie_grumbles
Posts: 1004
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:07 pm UTC
Location: Self Imposed Exile

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:19 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:So my way of working (I tell my boss: "I can make that more efficient and that more efficient but to make that more efficient we need a real programmer") isn't all that wrong?
Spoiler:
I can't do much beyond Excel macros. It's fun but some people try to much with it and then it gets extremely messy.

Not necessarily. See cellocgw's signature:
"A man's got to know his limitations." -- Harry Callahan
"A man's got to know his limits." -- L'Hopital

And yes, excel macros can get out of hand, and worse, are hard to debug.
Lurking. Watching. Thinking. Writing. Waiting.
-- Charlie Grumbles

User avatar
TimeLurker
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:07 pm UTC
Location: the shadows

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby TimeLurker » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:27 pm UTC

This last newpix makes me kind of sad. The small text makes me read Megan's part as an almost whisper while she looks down at her lap. The question is WHY don't they like Cuegan (or possibly Cuegan's group)? Did the Cuegans do something terrible, or are they just different groups and therefore don't like each other for no good reason. Because Megan's words are small and timid (in my opinion) I would say that the dislike isn't mutual. If the Hill People were the Cuegan's enemy she would have forcefully said "We don't like them." As it is, the fault of the dislike is assumed to be with Cuegan.
Voice of the Silent
Owner of the contents of Cueball's head
Lurking Time-Ninja of the Past-Post

User avatar
mojacardave
Posts: 346
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:01 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mojacardave » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:31 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:And yes, excel macros can get out of hand, and worse, are hard to debug.


I'm a programmer by education, but currently working as an engineer, and only have Excel to programme in when I need to do extremely complex data analysis.

It has its quirks, and is horrifically slow, but there are ways of making it more usable. I'd echo the sentiments of those who say that knowing how to programme is a massive help to anybody who works with data. Excel macros are a handy way to get started. You can record something simple using the built in tools, and then try to work out what the code does and how it works. Adding things that can't be directly recorded (like loops or user input forms) isn't too difficult, with a bit of online reading.

It will all look like gobbledygook to start with. Have patience, and avoid adding formatting to cells, or graphs, until you've got the hang of the basics of data manipulation. The coding for pretty features in Office is a nightmare.

I'm quite an experienced coder, and I still often build my macros by recording and then editing the code!

If you don't want to/can't start with Office macros, then there's a free tool available online called Visual Studio Express. That's a quite comprehensive programme building tool for Windows, and there are tutorials online that you can work through. It's harder to start from scratch with that though.

User avatar
SBN
Saved
Posts: 2237
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:15 pm UTC
Location: No longer in the home of the raptorcats, now in the home of the raptorcats.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:37 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:So my way of working (I tell my boss: "I can make that more efficient and that more efficient but to make that more efficient we need a real programmer") isn't all that wrong?
Spoiler:
I can't do much beyond Excel macros. It's fun but some people try to much with it and then it gets extremely messy.

You've got it exactly right. Excel macros: Back in the day, Lotus 123 (anyone remember that?) Had a page right before the macro section that said, "Stop: Are you sure you want to be a programmer?" I've sorted out some really convoluted macros for folks. And also really wowed some with what you can do with them.

My career has nearly all been in the corporate world, so I'm employed full time as a programmer, but instead of getting the specs and writing what is needed efficiently, the decision is often to have the non-programmers write the programs, and not call in the programmers until it is taking too long, or putting out garbage. The result is everyone has wasted time, and the company isn't getting as much for their money. Some of it isn't that they non-programmers can't program, some of it is that they don't have the whole picture. Fortunately, I'm really good at finding where the problems are in other people's code.

I'm not going to try to answer the original question, but one of the things that helped me most on my journey was a class in Programming Languages. We covered 5 in 12 weeks. At that pace, what we learned most was how to learn new things.

TimeLurker wrote:This last newpix makes me kind of sad. The small text makes me read Megan's part as an almost whisper while she looks down at her lap. The question is WHY don't they like Cuegan (or possibly Cuegan's group)? Did the Cuegans do something terrible, or are they just different groups and therefore don't like each other for no good reason. Because Megan's words are small and timid (in my opinion) I would say that the dislike isn't mutual. If the Hill People were the Cuegan's enemy she would have forcefully said "We don't like them." As it is, the fault of the dislike is assumed to be with Cuegan.

I do see it as being one-way, but I don't see it as being their fault. Or at least not deliberately so.
astrotter wrote:It is not particularly clear to me at this time that we are not overanalyzing this...

Randalspeed thunk, iskinner, and other blitzers! Notes from the before-was improve the after-when.
Some Ways to Time
NetWeasel wrote:I want to put that in my sig... BUT I CAN'T!!!!

Arky
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:23 am UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Arky » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:39 pm UTC

TimeLurker wrote:This last newpix makes me kind of sad. The small text makes me read Megan's part as an almost whisper while she looks down at her lap. The question is WHY don't they like Cuegan (or possibly Cuegan's group)? Did the Cuegans do something terrible, or are they just different groups and therefore don't like each other for no good reason. Because Megan's words are small and timid (in my opinion) I would say that the dislike isn't mutual. If the Hill People were the Cuegan's enemy she would have forcefully said "We don't like them." As it is, the fault of the dislike is assumed to be with Cuegan.


Why the fault of the dislike? I agree that the way it is presented makes it sound like the dislike comes from the Hill People but not necessairly that Cuegan's people did anything to deserve it.

If anything, I read it as Megan being a bit afraid of the Hill People (which tallies back to her earlier concerns about being seen, and the comments about how they should move out to the abandoned place).
Veteran of the One True Thread. And now the Too True Thread?

User avatar
Flotter
Posts: 264
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:33 am UTC
Location: Heerenveen, NL

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flotter » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:39 pm UTC

How can people not like Cuegan?!?

I'd like to give Megan and Cueball a big hug, so they know there are also people who do like them.

User avatar
TimeLurker
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:07 pm UTC
Location: the shadows

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby TimeLurker » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:42 pm UTC

SBN wrote:<snip>
TimeLurker wrote:This last newpix makes me kind of sad. The small text makes me read Megan's part as an almost whisper while she looks down at her lap. The question is WHY don't they like Cuegan (or possibly Cuegan's group)? Did the Cuegans do something terrible, or are they just different groups and therefore don't like each other for no good reason. Because Megan's words are small and timid (in my opinion) I would say that the dislike isn't mutual. If the Hill People were the Cuegan's enemy she would have forcefully said "We don't like them." As it is, the fault of the dislike is assumed to be with Cuegan.

I do see it as being one-way, but I don't see it as being their fault. Or at least not deliberately so.

I agree that it isn't deliberate on Cuegan's part (they've shown no signs of malice). I imagine it's something like...

They don't like us because....
- we're smaller than them.
- we're different (race, origin, language, religion, etc.).
- our ancestors had a disagreement with their ancestors.

I also read into it that there are more people with the Hill People than with Cuegan.

ETA for Arky: I meant that the Hill People think that it is Cuegan's fault. That they blame Cuegan for the dislike.
Voice of the Silent
Owner of the contents of Cueball's head
Lurking Time-Ninja of the Past-Post

User avatar
JGeezer
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 6:00 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby JGeezer » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:45 pm UTC

wizpretz wrote:[off-topic]
A question for the programmers among you: When/where/how did you get your start in programming? I am looking into learning programming and I'd like to hear your advice. I've read some of the thread on this topic here in the xkcd fora but I'm still not quite sure what to learn or how to learn it and I'd probably give more weight to what you guys say (even if I didn't mean to). You can point me to tutorials, other forums, or just give general advice if you'd like. Thanks in advance.
[/off-topic]


I was drafted in '65, was a junior electronics tech at IBM at the time, and was headed "over there" :shock: . Whenever they asked me if I knew how to do something (like program in Cobol, Autocoder, Fortran, and other languages you never heard of) I said "yes", and had to frantically learn it (overnight on my own). Program or die. Very motivational.
Image All you molpys, get off my lawn!

User avatar
charlie_grumbles
Posts: 1004
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:07 pm UTC
Location: Self Imposed Exile

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:46 pm UTC

Arky wrote:Why the fault of the dislike? I agree that the way it is presented makes it sound like the dislike comes from the Hill People but not necessairly that Cuegan's people did anything to deserve it.

If anything, I read it as Megan being a bit afraid of the Hill People (which tallies back to her earlier concerns about being seen, and the comments about how they should move out to the abandoned place).

I'm speculating that Cuegan are somehow interlopers in the land. That would suggest a reason for the unidirectional dislike. (we came here without their permission, so) they don't like us.

But the previous frames suggest they have been "on the beach" for a while, at least, since they describe that as their "home". Or maybe they were just tourists at Banda Aceh and decided to stay, causing resentment.
Lurking. Watching. Thinking. Writing. Waiting.
-- Charlie Grumbles

User avatar
jjjdavidson
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:40 pm UTC
Location: Outside: The Ozarks, North America ─ OTTside: Lost in the 1400s

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:51 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:
Spoiler:
SBN wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:Let me disagree just a bit. You don't need to think of programming (or computer science) as a career. Programming is a useful skill in any field. Math, the sciences, humanities, ... Big data needs dealing with. Literature is analyzed using programs. If you can't write your own, you are at the mercy of those who can, both professionally and as a citizen. Learn to program, but find something satisfying as a career.

And I've made a career of fixing the programming of those that thought like that. And, I found it quite satisfying. Not saying no one should learn anything about it unless they intend to make it a career, but we do need career programmers. Most of us can probably do a little bit of home or car repair, but we also probably have tasks we turn over to someone else, recognizing we don't have the needed skills to do it effectively. Sure, learn enough that you aren't paying to replace the flux capacitor, but do the part you're good at, get someone else to do the part they are good at. That's not being at their mercy, that's everyone working to their strengths.

Hmmm. You sound awfully negative here. Leave it to experts. If you want me as a consultant, I'll charge you $2500 per day. Plus expenses. It will take me a day, maybe less, maybe more, to understand your problem.

I'll do a great job for you, but the clock is running. On the other hand, you already understand your problem. If you only knew how to program (12 year olds learn it every day) you could possibly solve your own problem in an hour.
But don't try to be a professional (programmer or mechanic) if you aren't. I'll let my recommendation stand and continue to encourage you to learn to program, just as I'll encourage you to learn enough maths so that you aren't able to be misled (and know when your program -or mine- is producing garbage). Not every program needs to be 100,000 lines of code.

ETA and if you CAN program and still need to hire me or SBN, you'll be in a much better place to shorten our work or evaluate the results.

Since I'm the one who first spoke negatively of programming as a career, I'd like to point out that I never said I actually regretted learning to program; I only regretted letting it lead me to a bad career choice. I still program (obviously I didn't draw these graphs in MS Paint), but I do it primarily for my own enjoyment. In fact, my Windows box, when it sleeps, chooses randomly among over a dozen screen savers, about half of which I wrote myself. But I absolutely hated much of the time I worked as a professional programmer.

mscha wrote:⁷some graphs, jjjdavidson!
mschaDT is 6 hours ahead of RDT, by the way. (The first few daysoutside of Time were mschaST, 5 hours ahead, but I'd just ignore that.) England (and the rest of Britain) is 5 hours ahead of RDT, which makes yappo even more daylight averse that you thought. Image

Thanks! Glad you liked them. I'd forgotten you'd specifically said that the Netherlands used some form of DST; I tend to think of that as a uniquely American sort of foolishness. As far north as England and the Netherlands are, I can't imagine there's much benefit to a DST shift in full summer; your days are already, what, eighteen hours long?
Don't worry. Feed squirpys.
Don't wait for me.
My OTC/OTT graphsMay include spoilers!
Helpful links: Time Wiki FAQrot-13 / Morse decoders
He won! He won! He won!
Knight Temporal. :) Ex-Loopist. :(

User avatar
xpatiate
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:02 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby xpatiate » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:57 pm UTC

TimeLurker wrote:I agree that it isn't deliberate on Cuegan's part (they've shown no signs of malice). I imagine it's something like...

They don't like us because....
- we're smaller than them.
- we're different (race, origin, language, religion, etc.).
- our ancestors had a disagreement with their ancestors.


Or, we ask too many questions 8-)

User avatar
adnapemit
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:05 am UTC
Location: The wrong timezone.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby adnapemit » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:58 pm UTC

Latent22 wrote:OK OTVO voting time!
Pick your favorite Cueball and Meagan Voice.
Results will be displayed here



I choose C6 & M4


Cuegan seem to be a bit scared of the people in the hill. Back when Megan was hurt she mentioned the people in the hill and Cueball replies that they are a "long way" from there. They must be very mean people :(
Last edited by adnapemit on Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:59 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Empress adnapemit "Nancy" "Time Panda"
[adnapemit|timepanda]
Does anyone actually read signatures?

User avatar
charlie_grumbles
Posts: 1004
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:07 pm UTC
Location: Self Imposed Exile

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:58 pm UTC

JGeezer wrote:
wizpretz wrote:[off-topic]
A question for the programmers among you: When/where/how did you get your start in programming? I am looking into learning programming and I'd like to hear your advice. I've read some of the thread on this topic here in the xkcd fora but I'm still not quite sure what to learn or how to learn it and I'd probably give more weight to what you guys say (even if I didn't mean to). You can point me to tutorials, other forums, or just give general advice if you'd like. Thanks in advance.
[/off-topic]


I was drafted in '65, was a junior electronics tech at IBM at the time, and was headed "over there" :shock: . Whenever they asked me if I knew how to do something (like program in Cobol, Autocoder, Fortran, and other languages you never heard of) I said "yes", and had to frantically learn it (overnight on my own). Program or die. Very motivational.

Answering wizpretz first. When I got my PhD in Mathematics there were no jobs for mathematicians, so I taught myself Fortran and moved relatively quickly to CS. I never taught very advanced math, though I was an expert in Analysis. (Support for science and math in the US collapsed after the moon landings.)

Replying to JGeezer (love the name). There is a story about why the Ada language had such strict rules, making it hard to write software, but especially difficult to write BAD software (compared to other languages of the day). Apparently there were stories of soldiers in the back of Jeeps in Vietnam, under fire, trying to debug the software in their sophisticated, but buggy, weapon systems so they could return fire. Also very motivating. Program or die.

Ada was the 'one programming language to rule them all' and the other reason for its existence is that on Navy ships everything is computer controlled. They learned that something around 100 different languages were used for the various systems, not just weapons, but including weapons. And everything was buggy, of course. So the attempt (largely failed) was to require everything done for the government to be done in Ada.
Lurking. Watching. Thinking. Writing. Waiting.
-- Charlie Grumbles

User avatar
edfel
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:56 pm UTC
Location: On Time

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edfel » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:02 pm UTC

HumONGs ?
Image
Human people looking like you ?

[edit: a wild guess, "looking" could be "speaking", or anything, and "like" sounds like "are"...]
Last edited by edfel on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:06 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
Waiting for it: Map of Time, same, no JS, Ages of Time.
Beginning a new story with every choice, no matter how small: Goodies.

User avatar
Lokiparts
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:15 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Lokiparts » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:02 pm UTC

Alright you guys have finally done it you have drug me into this thread from the land of lurkers. :shock:

I have been literally reading this thread since page one. And I still remember the first day that the OTC was posted. I read the alt text and then proceeded to stare at the comic for like 10 minutes before seeking out the forum to see if I was missing something. I have been hooked ever since. For now I will go back to quietly lurking in the shadows. I will probably pop up again from time to time if I have anything interesting to contribute but for now I just wanted to make my presence known.
Last edited by Lokiparts on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:03 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
AnotherKevin
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:47 pm UTC
Location: Upriver in the hills
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AnotherKevin » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:03 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:Time for some VERY late night analysis!

Image

I wrote out all known roots and "vowels".

Apparently we have 4 to 5 vowels - a convex arc [Xʾ], a concave arc [Xʿ], arc below [X̯ ] and a dot above [Ẋ].
Also, 22 roots so far.

This COULD, barely, map to a regular alphabet, with its 5 vowels and 21 consonants.


Is there someone maintaining the Beanish Concordance, with the various utterances extracted? It's a bit time-consuming to have to go flipping through frames to find them.

A few suspicions:
We've seen Ĺ29g ÁN a few times, each time followed by getting up and going somewhere. I'd tentatively associate those two morphemes with 'go to, move to, travel to, walk to...' (By the way, I'm not sure I like the acute accent for the mark in that string. It slopes the wrong way.)

We've already tentatively assigned 42bJ as 'water' and 342bJ as 'sea'. A wild speculation is that '342́J' - apparently another toponym - might be something like 'mountain' - and by back formation, I hypothesize a 42́J that would mean 'rock', 'earth', or 'hill,' by analogy to 'water - sea', making a leading '3' have a meaning something like 'great'. 37cNA as 'castle' might be 'great building', 'great wall', 'great fortress', ...

I suspect that the similarity between X̯ (the first morpheme in the apparent greeting) and Xc̯ (yes, ok, ...) is coincidental. If it isn't, I suspect that the c̯ is an intensifier, and that Xc̯ means something like, "very good." X̯ Álb could be 'good evening' or 'be well!' or 'you good (Ni hao)!' The difference between that and X̯ Álb̯ could be (as someone suggested) formality, or simply the number or gender of the people addressed.

AM2 appears to be one Beanie's name. Xe greets another with 'X̯ Álb!' and is answered with 'AM2! X̯ Álb!' and body language indicating surprise. "Chris! Hi! (What brings you back so soon?)" Boss Beanie also apparently begins an order in an earlier pix by calling AM2's name.

ZL̇ and dZL̇ appear to be relative pronouns; they appear often in questions. I can most readily imagine that the Beanie's first utterance to Cueball and Megan might be 'Who are you?' or 'What's this?'

If we make these assumptions, can we interpolate anything else?
All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full.
Unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

User avatar
xpatiate
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:02 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby xpatiate » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:04 pm UTC

I think it's "how many people [something] are you?" Meaning more or less "how many of you (by the sea) are there?" That could be "numerous" as well coming down vertically.

Greetings lokiparts :)

User avatar
SBN
Saved
Posts: 2237
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:15 pm UTC
Location: No longer in the home of the raptorcats, now in the home of the raptorcats.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:07 pm UTC

jjjdavidson wrote:Since I'm the one who first spoke negatively of programming as a career, I'd like to point out that I never said I actually regretted learning to program; I only regretted letting it lead me to a bad career choice. I still program (obviously I didn't draw these graphs in MS Paint), but I do it primarily for my own enjoyment. In fact, my Windows box, when it sleeps, chooses randomly among over a dozen screen savers, about half of which I wrote myself. But I absolutely hated much of the time I worked as a professional programmer.

I think the key is that it was a bad choice for you. Not that it is a bad career. I heard some interesting career advice once... Do what you like second best as a career. That way you always have something you like better than work, and you can still do what you like best, without it being ruined by being a job. Your q-age may vary.

edfel wrote:HumONGs ?
Spoiler:
Image

Human people looking like you ?

How many people ___ are you?

Lokiparts wrote:Alright you guys have finally done it you have drug me into this thread from the land of lurkers. :shock:

I have been literally reading this thread since page one. And I still remember the first day that the OTC was posted. I read the alt text and then proceeded to stare at the comic for like 10 minutes before seeking out the forum to see if I was missing something. I have been hooked ever since. For now I will go back to quietly lurking in the shadows. I will probably pop up again from time to time if I have anything interesting to contribute but for now I just wanted to make my presence known.

Welcome!
astrotter wrote:It is not particularly clear to me at this time that we are not overanalyzing this...

Randalspeed thunk, iskinner, and other blitzers! Notes from the before-was improve the after-when.
Some Ways to Time
NetWeasel wrote:I want to put that in my sig... BUT I CAN'T!!!!

User avatar
Lokiparts
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:15 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Lokiparts » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:09 pm UTC

Thanks guys!

Also for what it's worth I read that as " How many people" too

User avatar
yappobiscuits
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:41 am UTC
Location: The Sea
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:09 pm UTC

Ooh, exposition! Yay! Finally!
Welcome, Lokiparts!

Re: Graphs and sleeping: Just so people don't think I'm a complete vampire, I generally get up some time in the afternoon and go on a short walk (or sometimes get up earlier for a long hike - because I actually do LIKE daylight rather a lot, believe it or not :P), and sometimes I have outside things to do during the day (like today! I got up before noon for outside commitments). Either way, I generally don't get on t'interwebs til later in the afternoon/evening. A couple of times I've even not got round to my daily ketchup til after midnight! Yeah, I do tend to stay up well into the morning, but my sleeping habits are less "completely nocturnal" and more just "lazy and erratic" and yeah, "musicianish" :P
Latent22 wrote:OK OTVO voting time!
Pick your favorite Cueball and Megan Voice.
Results will be displayed here

C5, M3.
Last edited by yappobiscuits on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:12 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
OTTscars results Pt. 2 coming... eventually, but not from me. Seeking writer.
English Instrumentalist Waterottermolpy
Mighty Troubadour of the OTT
Image

User avatar
Swein
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:11 am UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Swein » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:12 pm UTC

Perhaps Cuegan are part of some kind of Gypsie/Romani-like tribe of the Randalverse.
Living in tents and beeing disliked by people around. Used to walking around.
Image
But in that case I think Cueball is missing a nice hat....
They should also know more about the world they are living in...
The past is full of traps, charms and mirages, but if you just keep up with with what you are doing it will all be fine.

User avatar
edfel
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:56 pm UTC
Location: On Time

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edfel » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:12 pm UTC

xpatiate wrote:I think it's "how many people [something] are you?" Meaning more or less "how many of you (by the sea) are there?" That could be "numerous" as well coming down vertically.

Greetings lokiparts :)


Indeed, I didn't catch the "Y" of "many".

[and... map update! :) ]
Waiting for it: Map of Time, same, no JS, Ages of Time.
Beginning a new story with every choice, no matter how small: Goodies.

User avatar
b2bomberkrh
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:50 am UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby b2bomberkrh » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:12 pm UTC

How many people strong are you?

User avatar
yappobiscuits
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:41 am UTC
Location: The Sea
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:14 pm UTC

Woohoo, map! Thanks, edfel!
OTTscars results Pt. 2 coming... eventually, but not from me. Seeking writer.
English Instrumentalist Waterottermolpy
Mighty Troubadour of the OTT
Image

Gedeon
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:08 am UTC
Location: 930 km ENE of the Castle

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Gedeon » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:16 pm UTC

I think I've got it!

It says "How many people strong are you?"

EDIT: Ninja'd

User avatar
b2bomberkrh
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:50 am UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby b2bomberkrh » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:22 pm UTC

Gedeon wrote:I think I've got it!

It says "How many people strong are you?"

EDIT: Ninja'd


Welcome, Gedeon. Good eye. I have to head in to work soon, so you can take over helping everyone figure out her speech (we really should agree on a name for her). Speaking of which, I agree with the early analysis that suggests we know one Beanie's name, and thought maybe that Beanie should now be "Amy"

I noticed that the "y" from many was shifted down, and this seems to be the second time this has happened. Given that elements of Beanish seem to sneak into her speech, this strongly suggests to me that one of the diacritics is a "y" sound at least at the end of a word. I think someone may have already suggested that, and here is further evidence.


Return to “Individual XKCD Comic Threads”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 115 guests