1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby a_s_h_e_n » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:02 am UTC

"The castle (fortress) was once an island. We found it and have tried to rebuild it."

Why?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:05 am UTC

nickjbor wrote:
Someguy945 wrote:With this newfound (or newconfirmed) knowledge, what real language are the Beanish likely speaking?

French I say, but the word for Water in French is only 3 letters long; same with Lake.


I believe that at least a nowadays Frenchman would teach "water" as "l'eau". In a 10000-year-future the language could be anything. If we take Ray Kurzweil into account, something BIG and UGLY has to have happenend for people still to exist as non-enhanced C-based life forms. Rendering technology useless would speed up living language mutation as well.

Speaking of BIG and UGLY.

The revelation of The Map as a caesura for the fact-checker/investigations community bigger as we have had in the whole Time so far. I'm still baffled and have not yet decided to agree to Buffygirl ("too much information in a couple of newpix") or not. From the story POV this does not feel like a new eon, but it shouts incredibly loud for a bit fat red line. Maybe The Book Of Time, Vol. II starting probably after Cuegan left the hall.
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But then she got distracted by a squirpy and forgot.

Postby Eternal Density » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:06 am UTC

a_s_h_e_n wrote:"The castle (fortress) was once an island. We found it and have tried to rebuild it."

Why?

Because they like building castles too.

Re: Decree:
The roof collapses, everyone dies. Thus ends time.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby anabatica » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:07 am UTC

a_s_h_e_n wrote:"The castle (fortress) was once an island. We found it and have tried to rebuild it."

Why?


Sounds like Château d'If indeed.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:09 am UTC

Whoa, you guys have been busy...
I wonder what the Gibraltar breach must have looked like. Should have been quite the wowterfall... :shock:

a_s_h_e_n wrote:"The castle (fortress) was once an island. "

I always thought it would be somewhat disappointing to find out too much about the setting, but this is actually very exciting!

Wait and hope!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BrianX » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:13 am UTC

So, um, question about the language -- does suggesting that the greeting in 2858-9 is possibly "salaam" or something close to it help with making it any easier to puzzle out? (I'm kind of reading it right-to-left without vowels. I note that in addition to resemblances to Arabic, there are a few characters that are very much like cursive Hebrew.)

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mikro2nd » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:17 am UTC

mscha wrote:
edfel wrote:[and... map update! :) ]

⁴!
That you're doing a ⁷ job on the map is confirmed by the OTC, we haven't learned anything yet that requires you to change your map.


Throwing this forward as I blindpost from NP 1134 of 1147, deep, deep in my OTT ketchup. Still true. Bloody amazing work, edfel.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:21 am UTC

Here's a question to ponder, now that we know roughly where Cuegan are from and exactly where the Beanies are (or at least this fortress): whose language does Cuegan's language resemble that the Beanies would know? Since they're in France my first thought was that maybe they're familiar with English from their neighbors across the channel, if there is still a channel that is. But why would there be English-speakers down in the Mediterranean basin?

Of course if we're really talking >10k years in the future and post-collapse-of-civilization, there probably aren't many recognizable connections to modern languages (considering that everything from Icelandic to Nepali diverged from a common ancestor under 6k years old), and Cuegan's language is probably only rendered English by translation convention for our sake.

But if anyone here has any plausible speculation I'd be curious to hear it.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:25 am UTC

BrianX wrote:So, um, question about the language -- does suggesting that the greeting in 2858-9 is possibly "salaam" or something close to it help with making it any easier to puzzle out? (I'm kind of reading it right-to-left without vowels. I note that in addition to resemblances to Arabic, there are a few characters that are very much like cursive Hebrew.)


As Pfhorrest wrote - stays hard to tell. 10'000 years. 5 times the temporal distance between us and the epoch Jesus of Nazareth lived. Anyone here fluent in the Nabataean langauge? No? Maybe Palmyrenean? Don't try the "but we have much better archiving technology!". Alexandria was great, too. And as of now, Rosetta does not seem born in a high-tech culture.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby svenman » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:30 am UTC

a_s_h_e_n wrote:So what caused the Mediterranean to dry up like this?


Blindpost during ketchup: Even in our time, more water evaporates from the Mediterranean than goes into it from rivers and rain. It is constantly being replenished from the Atlantic through the Strait of Gibraltar.

ETA: Also, the Mediterranean isn't shallow at all, it is a minor oceanic basin and several thousands of metres deep.
Last edited by svenman on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:51 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BrianX » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:35 am UTC

It's sort of hard to really speculate, but if the three languages we're talking about are all recognizably related, the most likely possibilities would be descendants of French, Spanish, English, or possibly Arabic. I'd be willing to guess that the Beanish greeting/farewell is something we use now -- "salaam" was my guess, but "ciao" and "hey" are both rather likely to stick around as well. It is possible that Randall is using someone's constructed "Futurish" as the Beanish language; a few such projects exist, to the point where someone even tried to get a handle on the standard language used in Dune. (It was intended to be a very, very mutated hash of English and Russian. The writer in question didn't try to do more than demonstrate a few sound changes.)

It's really, really hard to speculate beyond that. A Berber dialect isn't entirely out of the question, but seems a little unlikely when it seems like Berber will eventually be completely displaced by Maghrebi Arabic dialects. And ten thousand years hence, I find it somewhat hard to imagine either French or Spanish would have much relation to what they are now -- I could see both of them undergoing a process of radical phonetic simplification similar to Middle Chinese, where eventually compound words replace roots that have become too homophonic to be distinguished. (French is already starting to show signs of this -- "jeune fille" for girl, for example -- and a similar process seems to have taken place in Vulgar Latin as the grammatical structures and phonetics became simplified and blended with local languages.)

This is all by way of saying it's difficult enough to project existing languages even one thousand years. A language in this time frame would be all but unrecognizable.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:38 am UTC

About rebuilding the fortress...

French military engineering legend Vauban had this to say about the Chateau d'If :
"Everything is done wrong and constructed very negiglently, which, I hate to say, makes me think those carrying out these works were either perfectly ignorant or lazy people who couldn't be bothered, to say the least."

Sounds like a lot of work :wink:
Last edited by Zorin_75 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:39 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby b2bomberkrh » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:39 am UTC

higgs-boson wrote:
BrianX wrote:So, um, question about the language -- does suggesting that the greeting in 2858-9 is possibly "salaam" or something close to it help with making it any easier to puzzle out? (I'm kind of reading it right-to-left without vowels. I note that in addition to resemblances to Arabic, there are a few characters that are very much like cursive Hebrew.)


As Pfhorrest wrote - stays hard to tell. 10'000 years. 5 times the temporal distance between us and the epoch Jesus of Nazareth lived. Anyone here fluent in the Nabataean langauge? No? Maybe Palmyrenean? Don't try the "but we have much better archiving technology!". Alexandria was great, too. And as of now, Rosetta does not seem born in a high-tech culture.


Although it doesn't help the language question, I will point out that the 10,000 time gap isn't quite the relevant time gap. Languages have become more and more stable as technology has progressed. Absent any calamity, I would expect the languages of the future to be close enough to modern day languages to be quite recognizable. Linguistic drift is much more prevalent in the absence of mass media, and global communication. More important is the time frame from when modern technology was lost. Obviously, we have no clue whatsoever about this, but at least it means we shouldn't assume that the language has changed significantly. My own opinion is that it's going to be impossible to crack the language if it isn't based around some current language. My parents work for an organization that learns languages from scratch in remote tribal locations, and it takes a linguist years of living among a people to learn the language effectively enough to translate it.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby colinclout12 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:47 am UTC

So...regarding the the new Messinian salinity crisis: Wikipedia says (though without citation) "Thus one could predict theoretical temperature maxima of around 80°C (176 °F) at the lowest depths of the dry abyssal plain."!!!! How on earth could they survive that far below sea level?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby rvloon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:51 am UTC

mscha wrote:
HES wrote:
mscha wrote:Certainly could be that Mediterranean thing. Who knows what happens in the next 11,000 years.

yeah, especially if the Netherlands start expanding :wink:

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ggh » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 am UTC

b2bomberkrh wrote:Languages have become more and more stable as technology has progressed.

Like chirp they have.
;)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:56 am UTC

b2bomberkrh wrote:Although it doesn't help the language question, I will point out that the 10,000 time gap isn't quite the relevant time gap. Languages have become more and more stable as technology has progressed. Absent any calamity, I would expect the languages of the future to be close enough to modern day languages to be quite recognizable. Linguistic drift is much more prevalent in the absence of mass media, and global communication. More important is the time frame from when modern technology was lost. Obviously, we have no clue whatsoever about this, but at least it means we shouldn't assume that the language has changed significantly.

Languages become more stable over history because we have more widespread and durable literacy and faster and longer-range communication, meaning there is less fracturing of languages communities (because spatially distant speakers can stay in touch) and slower change within each community (because through literacy, temporally distant readers and writers can "stay in touch" too).

Since we don't know when modern technology was lost, we have no idea when significant linguistic drift began occurring. Assuming the 10ky future estimates are correct, and we have no idea when between now and then modern technology was lost, we have between 0 and 10k years of linguistic drift to account for. Even taking the mean of those and assuming 5k years of linguistic drift... that's still long enough to get the equivalent divergence of the Indo-European languages that were present around the 14th century. So even assuming somehow everyone in the Mediterranean area spoke the same language when this divergence started, you could easily get neighbors speaking languages as different as Latin and Farsi in those 5k years.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mikro2nd » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:59 am UTC

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:00 am UTC

CHÂTEAU D'IFFONG
Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:02 am UTC

ggh wrote:
b2bomberkrh wrote:Languages have become more and more stable as technology has progressed.

Like chirp they have.
;)

:D , Yeah. Our little community has taken just a few mips to come up with sentences completely unintelligible to an outsider. 10000 years is a long time...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tatiana » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:02 am UTC

Question for the OTT: Is it possible that the breaching of the land bridge at Gibralter and the subsequent rapid rise of sea level in the basin area could be the basis of so many flood stories in the oral prehistory of people in the region? Was this the event that became the story of Noah's ark, passed down in the oral tradition for millions of years? That would be quite something. It seems a long time for any story to last. But as long as we've been human, we've surely told stories, and something that enormous would not be easily forgotten. I suppose there's no way to know for sure. Does anyone have any information that could illuminate the question in any way?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby xpatiate » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:04 am UTC

Rosetta wrote:Suppose/Imagine/I guess [something something] be an island again.


Can anyone confirm or deny if Chateau D'If has a similar stained glass window? Or beaded curtains?
Last edited by xpatiate on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:04 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:04 am UTC

higgs-boson wrote:CHÂTEAU D'IFFONG
Image

I guess it will be an island again.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tatiana » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:05 am UTC

Caswallon wrote:
Gedeon wrote:LearnONG
Spoiler:
Image

"WE LEARNED"
"IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE."
WHEN OUR PARENTS WERE" (Forefathers)
"LEARNING TO WALK UPRIGHT" (Stand)
"THE SEA FLED AND RETURNED."

Can't read the other background letters.


I think it says FOREMOTHERS
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Echousb » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:07 am UTC

"I guess (suppose) (marine) it will be an island again"
and something like "Ké" on top (or new)

(marine) is actually (imagine), right
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:17 am UTC

Hairdo wrote:I guess (imagine)(suppose) it will be an island again
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Khrushy » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:18 am UTC

Tatiana wrote:Question for the OTT: Is it possible that the breaching of the land bridge at Gibralter and the subsequent rapid rise of sea level in the basin area could be the basis of so many flood stories in the oral prehistory of people in the region? Was this the event that became the story of Noah's ark, passed down in the oral tradition for millions of years? That would be quite something. It seems a long time for any story to last. But as long as we've been human, we've surely told stories, and something that enormous would not be easily forgotten. I suppose there's no way to know for sure. Does anyone have any information that could illuminate the question in any way?


Unlikely. The Zanclean Flood was ~5.3 million years ago. The earliest human-like species start showing up ~2-3 million years ago (depending on where you draw the line for "human like").

Edit 1:
Although I have read speculation that the bursting of an ancient glacial lake in . . . Russia I think . . . could have led to the flooding of the Caspian sea ~15,000 years ago, which would be within the possible range of an oral timeline tradition.

Edit 2:
Not the article I read originally, but some linkage anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_ ... hypothesis
Last edited by Khrushy on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:25 am UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angua » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:20 am UTC

Khrushy wrote:
Tatiana wrote:Question for the OTT: Is it possible that the breaching of the land bridge at Gibralter and the subsequent rapid rise of sea level in the basin area could be the basis of so many flood stories in the oral prehistory of people in the region? Was this the event that became the story of Noah's ark, passed down in the oral tradition for millions of years? That would be quite something. It seems a long time for any story to last. But as long as we've been human, we've surely told stories, and something that enormous would not be easily forgotten. I suppose there's no way to know for sure. Does anyone have any information that could illuminate the question in any way?


Unlikely. The Zanclean Flood was ~5.3 million years ago. The earliest human-like species start showing up ~2-3 million years ago (depending on where you draw the line for "human like").

What about the end of the last ice-age? I've heard that could have been a cause for sea-level rises.

There are flood stories in many cultures - all over the world, not just Mediterranean ones.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Khrushy » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:23 am UTC

Angua wrote:What about the end of the last ice-age? I've heard that could have been a cause for sea-level rises.

There are flood stories in many cultures - all over the world, not just Mediterranean ones.

Hah, you got me Pre-edit - I did start thinking about that shortly afterwards also and amended my thoughts above ^^
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tatiana » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:25 am UTC

My friend told me tonight that someone asked him about OTC merchandise, meaning over the counter, and he immediately thought "is there merchandise already for the one true comic?" The significant thing about that is that he's not an OTTer or a viewer of the OTC at all, but is picking up the language second hand from me. He now refers to meowlpies and blitzing, too. I think this means we have human to human transmission of OTTerflu. I wonder if a pandemic is imminent, and the Earth we know of will be flooded with OTChandise and OTTerspeak like the Mediterranean after the breach of a land bridge.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:25 am UTC

Tatiana wrote:Question for the OTT: Is it possible that the breaching of the land bridge at Gibralter and the subsequent rapid rise of sea level in the basin area could be the basis of so many flood stories in the oral prehistory of people in the region? Was this the event that became the story of Noah's ark, passed down in the oral tradition for millions of years? That would be quite something. It seems a long time for any story to last. But as long as we've been human, we've surely told stories, and something that enormous would not be easily forgotten. I suppose there's no way to know for sure. Does anyone have any information that could illuminate the question in any way?

There are other candidates, though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:26 am UTC

Prediction:
The opening of Gibraltar is a symptom of the slowing down of the earth's core, which causes earthquakes. An attempt will be made to restart the core but it will fail. The core will stop, the magnetic field of the earth will break down and a couple of solar flares will sterilize the earth. Thus ends Time.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:27 am UTC

One of the interesting things in the ways GLR displays English text is that he includes all the English punctuation. And when he has then done Beanish he has done the same thing with Beanish version of punctuation. Now we are seeing a mixture of muddled up English words but its using beanish punctuation. This has confirmed the - means full stop and small circle is question mark because they have been used with english. Also helps confirm = is exclamation mark. So we need to look for other things that may help give us clues to beanish in this language I guess.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby anabatica » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:30 am UTC

Latent22 wrote:One of the interesting things in the ways GLR displays English text is that he includes all the English punctuation. And when he has then done Beanish he has done the same thing with Beanish version of punctuation. Now we are seeing a mixture of muddled up English words but its using beanish punctuation. This has confirmed the - means full stop and small circle is question mark because they have been used with english. Also helps confirm = is exclamation mark. So we need to look for other things that may help give us clues to beanish in this language I guess.

For everyday punctuation, we're really only missing the comma I guess. And maybe the dash, as Randall tends to use that a fair bit too. I've been trying to identify commas in Beanie or in Rosetta's speech but haven't been able to find anything.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tatiana » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:35 am UTC

Khrushy wrote:
Tatiana wrote:Question for the OTT: Is it possible that the breaching of the land bridge at Gibralter and the subsequent rapid rise of sea level in the basin area could be the basis of so many flood stories in the oral prehistory of people in the region? Was this the event that became the story of Noah's ark, passed down in the oral tradition for millions of years? That would be quite something. It seems a long time for any story to last. But as long as we've been human, we've surely told stories, and something that enormous would not be easily forgotten. I suppose there's no way to know for sure. Does anyone have any information that could illuminate the question in any way?


Unlikely. The Zanclean Flood was ~5.3 million years ago. The earliest human-like species start showing up ~2-3 million years ago (depending on where you draw the line for "human like").

Edit 1:
Although I have read speculation that the bursting of an ancient glacial lake in . . . Russia I think . . . could have led to the flooding of the Caspian sea ~15,000 years ago, which would be within the possible range of an oral timeline tradition.

Edit 2:
Not the article I read originally, but some linkage anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_ ... hypothesis


Yes, she said first learning to walk upright. Perhaps that would have been referring to something like Ardipithecus Kadabba which lived something like 5.6 million years ago and walked upright on the ground while still being quadrupedal in trees? No telling if they would have told stories to each other or not. Seems way too apelike for that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardipithecus
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tatiana » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:36 am UTC

anabatica wrote:
Latent22 wrote:One of the interesting things in the ways GLR displays English text is that he includes all the English punctuation. And when he has then done Beanish he has done the same thing with Beanish version of punctuation. Now we are seeing a mixture of muddled up English words but its using beanish punctuation. This has confirmed the - means full stop and small circle is question mark because they have been used with english. Also helps confirm = is exclamation mark. So we need to look for other things that may help give us clues to beanish in this language I guess.

For everyday punctuation, we're really only missing the comma I guess. And maybe the dash, as Randall tends to use that a fair bit too. I've been trying to identify commas in Beanie or in Rosetta's speech but haven't been able to find anything.


I noticed that the past tense marker "ed" in one of Hypatia's English speeches was lifted and turned relative to the base word. I wonder if that means that in Beanon, one of the diacritics is used to indicate past tense on verbs.
Last edited by Tatiana on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:37 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Montov
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Montov » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:37 am UTC

Wow3. When the Med Sea was suggested after the first map I thought it was grasping at straws. But wow3, what a revelation. And funny how people 'complain' about easy information... Yeah, it took only 4 months, a whole community deciphering Beanglish, deducting from astronomy and a map not easily readable. It is just that this whole community has so much knowledge, with explanations I didn't know before and couldn't deduce from Rosetta Hairdo The Oracle (Chateau D'if for example, or the history of the Med Sea).

It is a good time to wait.

3 I mean wow cubed, not footnote three.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tatiana » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:53 am UTC

I get all bold in the middle of the night US time, and start posting all my dumb ideas and idiotic theories. I'm obsessed with
Spoiler:
Image
this kitty who was in an art exhibit somewhere. I want to know if he or she was ever adopted and, if not, can I adopt him. Isn't that just a wonderful cat-personality on display?

That's neither here nor there, I suppose, except that it's time for me to meowlpy down.
Image


redundant
Spoiler:
socutekitty.jpeg

molpydown3.jpg

so cute kitty.jpg
so cute kitty.jpg (82 KiB) Viewed 13036 times
Last edited by Tatiana on Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:34 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Zorin_75
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:54 am UTC

mikro2nd wrote:
mscha wrote:
edfel wrote:[and... map update! :) ]

⁴!
That you're doing a ⁷ job on the map is confirmed by the OTC, we haven't learned anything yet that requires you to change your map.


Throwing this forward as I blindpost from NP 1134 of 1147, deep, deep in my OTT ketchup. Still true. Bloody amazing work, edfel.

It will have become more amazing 8 NP later, I guess. ;) Even considering the current revelations it's still pretty accurate...
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Eternal Density
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So Niclep continued to sleep.

Postby Eternal Density » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:00 am UTC

IdentitONG
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Play the game of Time! castle.chirpingmustard.com Hotdog Vending Supplier But what is this?
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