1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby moody7277 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:54 pm UTC

nerdsniped wrote:
speising wrote:But they need a bard singing "build, build, build the raft! "

Arrgh now my brain is spinning through endless permutations of OOTS / XKCD crossover storylines! I'm going to be stuck on that all day.


So, if the main dam at the Gibraltar Strait does let go, will it make a KRAKOOM?
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Fictioneer » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:58 pm UTC

edo wrote:I've confirmed that all the pixels are pure black in MSpaint (I know, quite the fancy tool) :P


It's only when all the pixels are black that I realize how many smudges have accumulated on my screen.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:59 pm UTC

For my 800th post I'll speculate a bit.

The current blackout frame and others recently seem atypical. They have been jumps forward in Time, of course, but GLR hasn't done that previously. I'll take it as evidence that he prepared this all in advance, but that, as his deadline for release came up he realized that he had to shorten it a bit. Hence the jumps.

Had he taken us through the walk up to the camp and (apparently) the current prep, we'd have waited and commented like usual. Something is afoot. The ong is due NOW.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby gga2 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:00 pm UTC

DecOngstruct the yurt!

Image

Alt-text = Run.
Last edited by gga2 on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:01 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:00 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
nerdsniped wrote:How are they planning to maintain position along the (climbing) shore? At first, they might not have to do anything, as the current is flowing upriver. But I think this will break down as soon as they reach a steeper region. The sideways flow into the riverbed will become a very minor effect, and at that point there will presumably be a broad flow east to pull them away. (Not to mention any potential "friskiness".) Meanwhile, the steep terrain would then make it very difficult to manage things by walking alongside with ropes.
At that point they could get off and climb. It would be faster then anyway, and would not risk being adrift hundreds of miles offshore in a frisky sea.

Jose

But then why bother with the raft in the first place? Unless the current is running faster than I think, it seems like a slow way to cover the initial part of the journey. (Another data point: if the current were rapid, they would have had a hard time grabbing LaPetite as she floated by.)

I guess, as Prof. Grumbles says, it could simply be that the raft will let them avoid exhausting those with less endurance. Also I'm starting to beat this topic to death, so I'll let it go.

ETA: happy 800th!
Last edited by nerdsniped on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:03 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:01 pm UTC

gga2 wrote:Deconstruct the yurt! ONG

Image


Aren't yurts generally made out of felt? That isn't very waterproof...

ETA:
HES wrote:That was a big ketchup. I'm going to settle for just this:

taixzo wrote:I know this one has been OTTified before, but I was just thinking about what it would be like from Rosetta's perspective and I had to do this one:
Still Alive
(Based on Still Alive by Jonathan Coulton)


Spoiler:
This is a problem;
I'm making a map here; understand!
Now another sea will come and flood yours!
We are the beanies;
we do what we can because we must.
For the good of all of us,
except the ones that we missed!

But there's no sense crying over those who are gone;
you must say goodbye from here so you can move on!
You have walked too far to die - it is suicide to try!
You must stay here where you're still alive.

And I'm really sorry;
We did not know about your tribe.
Even though we asked the ones who lived there;
You say they don't like you?
So maybe they hoped for you to die.
But you came to us because
you have a future up here;

Now these points we've surveyed make a beautiful line,
and we're sure we're safe inside this castle of mine.
So I'm glad that you're here, you have nothing more to fear
Now you're safe here and you're still alive...

Go 'head and leave me;
I think I prefer to stay inside.
Maybe you'll find someone else to help you.
Maybe the Beanies!
That was a joke: Haha, fat chance.
We will not risk lives for you,
because you stole all our maps!

Look at me still talking when there's science to do,
and I look down there, it makes me glad I'm not you!
There's a torrent coming in, you can't fight it, you can't win!
In the Château d'If, we're still alive.
I'm on a mountain and I'm still alive.
I'm doing research and I'm still alive.
I'm in a castle and I'm still alive.
While you're dying, I'll be still alive.
And when you're dead I will be still alive, still alive, still alive.


Amazing!


Thank you!
Last edited by taixzo on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:04 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:02 pm UTC

Now WOULD be a good time for a montage!
rvloon wrote:You know, it's just a matter of Time before Randall does an xkcd about the OTT where everyone will be like 'Molpy? Chirp?' what is he on about, while everyone here will notice nothing unusual other than 'it's all related'.

Ronald

Haha, I would actually love to see that.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:03 pm UTC

I think they're making a SAIL!!
Remember waiting a half hour for one darkening pixel? Pepperidge Farms remembers...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby gga2 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:03 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:Aren't yurts generally made out of felt? That isn't very waterproof...


I've been to quite a few, and the outsides are generally vinyl these days. There are also (waxed?) canvas options. Traditional Mongolian gers could be more natural materials though.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:03 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:
Spoiler:
gga2 wrote:Deconstruct the yurt! ONG

Image


Aren't yurts generally made out of felt? That isn't very waterproof...

Yes, but hides also work. And they can be waterproof, depending on how they were cured.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Random832 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:04 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:Aren't yurts generally made out of felt? That isn't very waterproof...


The fact that they've got the same form doesn't mean they used the same materials as historical yurt-using peoples did.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlueCrab » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:05 pm UTC

Two de-lurkers in a row4!

floppy_gunk wrote:Hello everyone! Been lurking for a for a while, finally decided to go and join the thread.

I think the word is SCHOLARS. It looks like 'SCH___RS' at the top, and 'SCH-' at the bottom.



LampyDave wrote:Hello all,

It's another brief de-lurk. I've been watching the thread and the comic since the very beginning (I appreciate there's vocabulary and abbreviations I should be using here, but don't feel that I've done enough posting to actually use them!), and just wanted to mention at this exciting time in Time that I have been so impressed by the thread, its content and also its conduct.

The working out a location from the star map was a delight - I had no comprehension of how accurate that could be both in terms of position and date, and it certainly seems to be playing out (unless we too are being played with...)

SImilarly the mapping, the language analysis and the various TIme viewers are all a joy. It has particularly tickled me since the dawn of Time that Randall must know his audience pretty well. To know that it is possible to put a single frame on his site every 30 mins (then 60 mins), and rely on the audience to create tools such as the aubronwood and geekwagon viewers must be very gratifying, and must go some way to rewarding the amount of work which he must be putting in.

On a similar vein, I would love to think that the 'earthquake knocks part of sandcastle down while precipitating events which will lead to demise' theory is true
Spoiler:
Postby neopifex » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:07 pm UTC
I've got a theory about an earthquake causing the sea to rise.

If you look back at the beginning of the OTC, the sea is pretty much static for the first couple hundred frames. It doesn't really start rising noticeably until after Cuegan come back from swimming, I'd say at frame 190 (I'm going by the Geekwagon numbering here). If you go backwards from there, you'll see a bit of sandcastle fall down at the far left between frames 172 and 173 while Cuegan are still in the water out of frame.

That could be an indication of weak seismic waves from a distant earthquake reaching their area. The part that fell was one of the newest sections that Cueball added, so the sand would still be soft and wet. Since both Cueball and Megan were swimming at the time, they wouldn't have felt the tremors, so it would just look like part of the castle fell under its own weight. The sea starts rising a short time later, and appears to have slowly risen faster over time, which would match pretty well with a flood that widens its passage as more blockage is swept away by the floodwaters.
because that would show that the whole thing has been planned out in such meticulous detail that it makes me shiver!

I don't know how all this is going to translate into stuff that can be made available from the xkcd store - but I'm certainly going to be patronising it! I suspect that - in the same way as my 'sudo make me a sandwich' shirt (xkcd 149) - the merch will encourage strangers from all walks to chat briefly about a shared theme.

It is possible that the feel of the thread will alter a bit, but that's a natural side-effect of there being more to talk about, and so less time for Popeing, Knighting and the like. That's different, but not necessarily a disaster. It is worth noting that it's a very long thread which is chock full of considered comment and really hasn't got flamey. As a very long time lurker I would like to heartily congratulate the assembled company for that, and wish us all a nice long time continuing to read and speculate on the story.

You have (as they say) all done very well. I am now returning to silent waiting :-)


Welcome, floppy_gunk and LampyDave! Come on in, the water's fine. (A bit salty, and the rip tides can be a ch*rped molpy, but nice and warm.) :D

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fhorn » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:06 pm UTC

for the good Doctor Professor:
Spoiler:
Image


re dun dun DUN
Spoiler:
800-cakes.png
800-cakes.png (32.28 KiB) Viewed 12030 times
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby keithl » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:07 pm UTC

gga2 wrote: Where does this story go once they get to safety?


http://www.news.xkcd Dateline April 18, 2127

The solar system rejoiced today as the 142 year old Great Lord Randall posted newpic 1000000 from his sandcastle orbiting Mars. On hand were Keeper of the Mustard Blitzgirl, Cantor Yappobiscuits, Penbearer Cueball the Second (the former Catholic Pope), as well as many minor Outside dignitaries, including American President Barack Bush ...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby neopifex » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:08 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:For my 800th post I'll speculate a bit.

The current blackout frame and others recently seem atypical. They have been jumps forward in Time, of course, but GLR hasn't done that previously. I'll take it as evidence that he prepared this all in advance, but that, as his deadline for release came up he realized that he had to shorten it a bit. Hence the jumps.

Had he taken us through the walk up to the camp and (apparently) the current prep, we'd have waited and commented like usual. Something is afoot. The ong is due NOW.


I think he's doing this to retain a sense of urgency. If he showed us every frame of them doing all this work in the same way he showed us Cuegan hiking for days, it'd take a week to get to where they are now. These blackout jump-cuts help keep the tension high.
C'mon, let's see what's through here!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:09 pm UTC

HAPPY 800 Charlie! Have some rafting cupcakes (I've no idea who those people are)
Spoiler:
Image


Wait, are they intending on putting everyone AND their supplies on the raft? Or are they using their yurt supplies to shore up the raft?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:14 pm UTC

[quote="fhorn"]for the good Doctor Professor:
Spoiler:
Image

Well, thanks. Gather round tribe. Cake for all. Pop the top on your favorite beverage (non-salty) and come sit by the fire and hear some old-cogder stories (salty). :twisted:

ETA And thanks also k.bookbinder. Now we can have cake for dessert after we have cake for supper. A joy.
Last edited by charlie_grumbles on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:16 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:16 pm UTC

gga2 wrote:A few questions with/without answers:

2. Floatability - I've made basic rafts from wood before. Without a hull of a boat which also gives displacement, you need quite a lot of wood to make something buoyant even to hold any weight. I had a large pile of wood lashed together, and could float on it, but it was also hovering around 6" underwater with my weight on it. Even my 25ft long sailboat is only rated for 2000 pounds, and that's a hull not a raft, so I'd say this is some artistic license to think 20 Ceuganites can stay float on this raft.

on frame M969, LaPetite is dragging in something. could be bladders, which would make a huge difference.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby MajorDouble7 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:18 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:
Tatiana wrote:To counter those who have opined that we are near the end of Time, I want to say that this could quite easily just be the first episode. This could totally be the hobbits struggling to reach Rivendell before the real quest even begins. I think this episode, assuming the cuegans survive, could be an early part of the saga that helps to establish Megan and Cueball as leaders of their group, with La Petite as an obvious candidate for eventual succession. Even if everyone makes it to safety, there's still the problem of finding somewhere new to live, and some new way to make a living. They'll be competing for land with all the other basin refugees, perhaps with the help of the beanies, but perhaps the help they'll be able to give will be minimal. After all, the beanies have everyone they've warned to try to get settled, retrain, and take care of. None of the Forty are likely to be any better educated than Cuegan are. This whole story could be just getting warmed up. (I can hope, anyway.)

I doubt it, though. all of the bits set up in the beginning have come back already. There aren't any guns left unfired on the mantle.

I happen to agree with Tatiana on this one. Lots of people seem to be eager to get to the end of Time, but who's to say that GLR isn't planning an extremely detailed, never-ending OTC? I, for one, would be ECSTATIC if that were the case. Granted, 'never-ending' sounds daunting, and let's be honest, good writing/storytelling is essential to keep the audience, but that's not to say that it can't be done. After all, if GLR can't do it, then who can?

I'm trapped in the past, about NP1217 or so...trying to <condiment> my way to the present!! GO CUEGANITES!!

ETA: Punctuation
Last edited by MajorDouble7 on Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:33 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
HES wrote:That's not how these things work; Beardo will know, but before telling them he will send them on a quest for the magical sand timer of the molpy people. He'll give them a stick with +1 Thwapping and [...] once Time ends, it will restart on a higher difficulty setting.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eliram » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:23 pm UTC

edo wrote:
gga2 wrote:A few questions with/without answers:

2. Floatability - I've made basic rafts from wood before. Without a hull of a boat which also gives displacement, you need quite a lot of wood to make something buoyant even to hold any weight. I had a large pile of wood lashed together, and could float on it, but it was also hovering around 6" underwater with my weight on it. Even my 25ft long sailboat is only rated for 2000 pounds, and that's a hull not a raft, so I'd say this is some artistic license to think 20 Ceuganites can stay float on this raft.

on frame M969, LaPetite is dragging in something. could be bladders, which would make a huge difference.

GLR usually pays lots of attention to such details. Something simple as how much weight can a water floating vehicle carry over salty water should be easy to calculate, we didn't see anyone other than LaPetite on the raft in its current form (although the sand should be too heavy in any case).
We don't know the width of the raft, not the type of wood or what's below it, but I'm guessing that even if they all swim while just HOLDING the raft, it should be enough to bring these non-swimmers to safety.
It's about time.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:23 pm UTC

nerdsniped wrote:But then why bother with the raft in the first place? Unless the current is running faster than I think, it seems like a slow way to cover the initial part of the journey. (Another data point: if the current were rapid, they would have had a hard time grabbing LaPetite as she floated by.)
This is actually a hard part of the journey - a lot of horizontal space needs to be covered for a small amount of altitude gain while the sea rises. It's easy to get trapped on an island. The boat solves that. But once you are at the continental shelf rise, you can gain altitude faster on foot, and you no longer are at risk of being at a local maximum, and therefore trapped. You're also out of the (presumably frisky) sea.

Jose
Last edited by ucim on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:23 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:23 pm UTC

It is time to get in the mood for the next expisode of The Exodus.

The most famous artists - although their fame does not hail from their competence as singers - in a very touching performance: Row, row, row your boat (do I have to say more?).

The OTT version would indeed not need that much changes.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby hajo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:25 pm UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:HAPPY 800 Charlie! Have some rafting cupcakes (I've no idea who those people are)
Spoiler:
Image


LEGO-pirates ?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:27 pm UTC

hajo wrote:LEGO-pirates ?

Pirate-LEGOS?
Go Minim go!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby hunjoh » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:A thought just occurred to me: Right now, the water's very saline. As the ocean flows in, this will cease to be the case. Will their raft still float?

No, they have commented that the water is "fresh". I would expect the flood water to float over the much denser brine.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby doctorray » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Ketchup blindposting a big "thank you" for all the congrats, well wishes, and cakes!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:30 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
nerdsniped wrote:But then why bother with the raft in the first place? Unless the current is running faster than I think, it seems like a slow way to cover the initial part of the journey. (Another data point: if the current were rapid, they would have had a hard time grabbing LaPetite as she floated by.)
This is actually a hard part of the journey - a lot of horizontal space needs to be covered for a small amount of altitude gain while the sea rises. It's easy to get trapped on an island. The boat solves that. But once you are at the continental shelf rise, you can gain altitude faster on foot, and you no longer are at risk of being at a local maximum, and therefore trapped. You're also out of the (presumably frisky) sea.

Jose

Sure, the horizontal part of the journey is problematic. I'm just hung up on why the raft is a better way to accomplish it than walking. They can travel X miles per hour by raft, and Y miles per hour on foot... the raft only helps if X >= Y, which I can't wrap my head around under the current circumstances.

They get trapped on an island if their progress wasn't fast enough, i.e. if there's a hill that they don't reach until the water has extended past it. If the raft doesn't let them move faster (X < Y), then it won't prevent them from winding up in this situation. Would it help them extricate themselves? Only if the current carries them in the right direction (which doesn't seem reliable unless they're managing to stay far enough ahead that they're in an area where the sea hasn't overtopped the riverbank -- which case by definition they're not trapped on a hill), or they have some other means of propulsion (had to see what they could come up with that could overpower the current?)

"Carrying the young and infirm" still seems like the only possible justification.

ETA: thanks for helping me wrap my head around this...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby partingLance » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:33 pm UTC

Montov wrote:
TimS wrote:Does anyone know what the deal is with the water being "too fresh to swim over"? I know that salt water makes you a little more buoyant than fresh water, but it'd take a pretty extreme amount of salt to make the difference between you being able to swim or not. And most wood floats in water, salty or fresh.

It makes me think the "salt" and "fresh" water they're referring to are very different than what we'd call "salt" and "fresh" water. Thoughts?


It is weird, but maybe they didn't need to learn to swim properly in fresh water because of the buoyancy. They have lived their whole life there (Cueball going to the rock when he was little), but haven't progressed a lot in terms of technology and exploration.


(Blindpost from NP 1218 -- and how dare my phone browser not recognize words like "molpy" and "blindpost" [as one word]? Have to fix that, forthwith).

Conversely, I'm told swimming in hypersaline water can be difficult, or at least odd, if you're used to freshwater. Little Manitou Lake, in Saskatchewan, is maybe three times as saline as the ocean. Someone (maybe my father, who's from nearby) said that swimming there felt like "skittering over the surface".

And as always: there are far too many amazing ottifications for me to applaud them individually (for lack of Time), but I'm in awe of all the creativity on this thread (not to mention the staggering developments in the OTC). Thank you, one and all (as I return to lurking).
StratPlayer wrote:And at this very moment, someone on the Isle of Wight named Bungalo Bill is listening to the 'splat' made from using their family album to squash a beetle, that had ran, helter-skelter, straight for the wild honey pie made by his dear wife Prudence...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby hajo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:34 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:
k.bookbinder wrote:I think we may need two editions of pieces. OK, so how about this list:

Squirpy
Raft
Dildunnerang
Beanie
Flag
Trebuchet
Castle
Bucket

I like the idea of some rather mundane pieces, and some very special pieces. Players often want the fancier pieces, and not getting stuck with the more mundane ones (who fights to get the iron?).
Does this seem like a good list for our first edition?

How will the flag stand up? (just thinking logistics here)

A flag is too thin, and would break easily.

How about an survey-tower ?
Also: WowTree

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby gga2 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:34 pm UTC

Someone asked why use a raft? The answer is that getting a group to move quickly is near impossible. Ever try to go for a run/bike/hike at a speedy pace with people that didn't expect to be doing that? You'll have to take breaks all the time, meet everyone's needs, etc. Putting them all on a raft that moves a steady pace is much easier if we are dealing with 20-40 people in this circumstance. It also means they can stay together - there's really no other option. If instead you tried to have 20 people run uphill, groups will form, people will split, and it's much harder to manage 20-40 at that point.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:38 pm UTC

nerdsniped wrote:Sure, the horizontal part of the journey is problematic. I'm just hung up on why the raft is a better way to accomplish it than walking. They can travel X miles per hour by raft, and Y miles per hour on foot... the raft only helps if X >= Y, which I can't wrap my head around under the current circumstances.

They're worried (probably very rightly so) about getting trapped by the "sea-rivers": frame 3025
So on foot they would need to carry some not too heavy makeshift floatation devices with them. The raft takes care of this problem...
Go Minim go!

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HAL9000
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HAL9000 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:39 pm UTC

Popping in to say that I'm not dead, and a few other things.
First of all, I'm going to let everyone know (a note will be added to my signature soon) that keeping up with the thread has become just too much for me, when I add in all the other things I am doing/want to do over the summer. So I'll be skipping a lot of pages (though I have been trying to read the most recent four or five so I don't repeat anything that's just been said). Better than being stuck in the past.
Second, that I don't know what my favorite frame is, but it's definitely one of the frames from 3016m onwards (3016m being the first frame in which multiple other members of The Forty appeared). The OTC is starting to become engaging enough on its own, and I'd be excited about it even if there weren't an excellent community to follow it with.
HAL9000 wrote:I find it simultaneously fascinating and disturbing that the most profound things I've read in the past months I have encountered in or been led to by an internet forum thread about a webcomic.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby MajorDouble7 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:40 pm UTC

TimS wrote:Does anyone know what the deal is with the water being "too fresh to swim over"? I know that salt water makes you a little more buoyant than fresh water, but it'd take a pretty extreme amount of salt to make the difference between you being able to swim or not. And most wood floats in water, salty or fresh.

It makes me think the "salt" and "fresh" water they're referring to are very different than what we'd call "salt" and "fresh" water. Thoughts?

Spoiler:
I'm slightly BlindPosting, so I'm sure this has already been addressed...but I couldn't help myself. At the risk of OverSnark, I would answer this question by directing you to read the OTT. For if you had, your question would cease to exist. [/snark]

Okay, fine. [realanswer] Their sea was extremely salty (perhaps more so than the Dead Sea), as you suggested.[/realanswer]


ETA: SUPER Ninja'd by many.
Last edited by MajorDouble7 on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:43 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
HES wrote:That's not how these things work; Beardo will know, but before telling them he will send them on a quest for the magical sand timer of the molpy people. He'll give them a stick with +1 Thwapping and [...] once Time ends, it will restart on a higher difficulty setting.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jovialbard » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:41 pm UTC

Zorin_75 wrote:
nerdsniped wrote:Sure, the horizontal part of the journey is problematic. I'm just hung up on why the raft is a better way to accomplish it than walking. They can travel X miles per hour by raft, and Y miles per hour on foot... the raft only helps if X >= Y, which I can't wrap my head around under the current circumstances.

They're worried (probably very rightly so) about getting trapped by the "sea-rivers": frame 3025
So on foot they would need to carry some not too heavy makeshift floatation devices with them. The raft takes care of this problem...


You ninja'd me, I was just about to say that. They already had to cross water to meet up with the first group, then they had to travel to this hill and gather all the people that are here together. They still need to find the rest of the crew. All the while the water is rising, they may already be trapped or close to trapped on an island.
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Ephemeron
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ephemeron » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:42 pm UTC

Wow...

I didn't know that Time was still going. The last time I last checked the archive was around the end of the sandcastle sequence. And I only saw a few fast-moving playthroughs, so I didn't see the dialogue. I thought the whole thing was overrated, and that this forum thread was unnecessary and ridiculous. Until now.

When I saw the interactive player (which I recommend to anyone who hasn't seen it yet), the story emerged. I started to like it a lot better when I realised it was about two curious children. I'm not sure what the current consensus is about Megan and Cueball's ages, but for me it was quite obvious on frame 564 (Megan doesn't know how big the sea is) that they are little kids who don't know much about the world. It was amusing to see how long people mistook them for adults. (Having sex in a sandcastle? How inappropriate!) It was Neoqix who successfully called their ages on page 18, but it was scarcely mentioned again until Asthanius on page 340.

So far I've skimmed through the first 500 pages. And oh my, it is amazing how you manage to keep yourselves amused during the long periods when nothing is happening. I suppose I am lucky to have joined you at a very interesting time. Even during these last few hours, newpix have revealed important plot developments.

I must say it is a relief to see Munroe break out of his stale webcomic format for some long overdue serialised storytelling. My only problem with that is that it's in possibly the least accessible format ever. But if it wasn't for that, we wouldn't be here.

I'd like to see the eventual movie adaptation of this, though it's more than likely that the sandcastle sequence that played out for a month would only be shown during the opening credits. Of course it would probably not be made for another ten years, which is when this comic is due to finish. And it would be starring child actors who haven't even been born yet.

Of course, I'd much prefer that it never ends.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Jokern » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:42 pm UTC

nerdsniped wrote:
Spoiler:
NetWeasel wrote:
taixzo wrote:RaftONG!
This should work...
The banks will be, by definition, higher than the water at the floodwater's edge. Sleep in shifts, long poles for guidance, when you get to rapids, just
wait for it.
When you get to the Hill People's Hills, send out a runner to collect the rest of the Forty. If the Forty are too heavy for the boat, half walk, half ride, alternating.

(edit) just cleaning up text

OK, but why is this better than just walking (or better still, RUNning) up the riverbank? Is the current moving faster than they could jog? Seems like Cuegan would have had a harder time crossing, if so.


All I can think is that Megan is planning to take the raft ALL the way up, somehow. Otherwise, right now, it's just a slower way to hike up the river.


Even if the flood is advancing at slower than walking speed, it will keep this speed 24/7 and probably speed up later. Imagine the 40 walking/running uphill for a day and then stopping to rest, as they are all tired they sleep until their temporary camp is underwater.

If we assume the journey up will take days and the raft won't be able to hold everyone, one solution would be to sleep in shifts on the raft and the others will walk/swim next to it and guide it up the river.

Random832 wrote:
CasCat wrote:
taixzo wrote:A thought just occurred to me: Right now, the water's very saline. As the ocean flows in, this will cease to be the case. Will their raft still float?


It'd probably still float, but that's a good point; the carrying capacity will go down. (Better get that sand off the top...)


Well, they know the salinity is dropping (and their assumption is that the ocean is "fresh", rather than simply less salty than their sea), so they probably are keeping this possibility in mind.


The water is already to fresh for the ceuganites to float, the new ocean water is probably floating atop their old sea water, and the raft is still floating.
I don't think the cueganites is necessarily counting on that the density will lower further.

NetWeasel wrote:Another advantage to the "up a river" idea...
Rivers do not flow uphill. Therefore, going against normal river flow means you are always going uphill, and therefore safer from being trapped by the flood.

Yes! I've been wanting to point this out to everyone doubting Cuegans choice of travel route!
Although if the river ever passes a mountain lake then they would have to get across that lake by own means to continue up the river on the other side. Although no lakes are spotted on the maps viewed so far?

Eliram wrote:And last, but not least, I don't know why everyone are so worried thinking whether they'll float or not.
Of course they can all just float to safety. After all, they are...


(wait for it...)


STICK FIGURES!

(I'll stay quiet now for a while...)


You just made my day! :D That was hilarious!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jovialbard » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:45 pm UTC

Ephemeron wrote:Wow...
Spoiler:
I didn't know that Time was still going. The last time I last checked the archive was around the end of the sandcastle sequence. And I only saw a few fast-moving playthroughs, so I didn't see the dialogue. I thought the whole thing was overrated, and that this forum thread was unnecessary and ridiculous. Until now.

When I saw the interactive player (which I recommend to anyone who hasn't seen it yet), the story emerged. I started to like it a lot better when I realised it was about two curious children. I'm not sure what the current consensus is about Megan and Cueball's ages, but for me it was quite obvious on frame 564 (Megan doesn't know how big the sea is) that they are little kids who don't know much about the world. It was amusing to see how long people mistook them for adults. (Having sex in a sandcastle? How inappropriate!) It was Neoqix who successfully called their ages on page 18, but it was scarcely mentioned again until Asthanius on page 340.

So far I've skimmed through the first 500 pages. And oh my, it is amazing how you manage to keep yourselves amused during the long periods when nothing is happening. I suppose I am lucky to have joined you at a very interesting time. Even during these last few hours, newpix have revealed important plot developments.

I must say it is a relief to see Munroe break out of his stale webcomic format for some long overdue serialised storytelling. My only problem with that is that it's in possibly the least accessible format ever. But if it wasn't for that, we wouldn't be here.

I'd like to see the eventual movie adaptation of this, though it's more than likely that the sandcastle sequence that played out for a month would only be shown during the opening credits. Of course it would probably not be made for another ten years, which is when this comic is due to finish. And it would be starring child actors who haven't even been born yet.

Of course, I'd much prefer that it never ends.


Guess he hasn't gotten that far in the story if he still thinks they're children :)
Oh, and welcome back! Although it sounds like you're blitzing, so you may not read this for quite a while.
I wrote a book exploring the nature of identity and loss of self! And another book about babies!
Also, vlog and short-story blog

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:50 pm UTC

Ephemeron wrote:It was amusing to see how long people mistook them for adults.

Read on. ;)
Go Minim go!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:51 pm UTC

jovialbard wrote:
Ephemeron wrote:Wow...
Spoiler:
I didn't know that Time was still going. The last time I last checked the archive was around the end of the sandcastle sequence. And I only saw a few fast-moving playthroughs, so I didn't see the dialogue. I thought the whole thing was overrated, and that this forum thread was unnecessary and ridiculous. Until now.

When I saw the interactive player (which I recommend to anyone who hasn't seen it yet), the story emerged. I started to like it a lot better when I realised it was about two curious children. I'm not sure what the current consensus is about Megan and Cueball's ages, but for me it was quite obvious on frame 564 (Megan doesn't know how big the sea is) that they are little kids who don't know much about the world. It was amusing to see how long people mistook them for adults. (Having sex in a sandcastle? How inappropriate!) It was Neoqix who successfully called their ages on page 18, but it was scarcely mentioned again until Asthanius on page 340.

So far I've skimmed through the first 500 pages. And oh my, it is amazing how you manage to keep yourselves amused during the long periods when nothing is happening. I suppose I am lucky to have joined you at a very interesting time. Even during these last few hours, newpix have revealed important plot developments.

I must say it is a relief to see Munroe break out of his stale webcomic format for some long overdue serialised storytelling. My only problem with that is that it's in possibly the least accessible format ever. But if it wasn't for that, we wouldn't be here.

I'd like to see the eventual movie adaptation of this, though it's more than likely that the sandcastle sequence that played out for a month would only be shown during the opening credits. Of course it would probably not be made for another ten years, which is when this comic is due to finish. And it would be starring child actors who haven't even been born yet.

Of course, I'd much prefer that it never ends.


Guess he hasn't gotten that far in the story if he still thinks they're children :)
Oh, and welcome back! Although it sounds like you're blitzing, so you may not read this for quite a while.


I suppose Ephemeron missed LaPetite! But you could miss her if you just skimmed, I suppose.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby asmodai » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:51 pm UTC

nerdsniped wrote:
ucim wrote:
nerdsniped wrote:But then why bother with the raft in the first place? Unless the current is running faster than I think, it seems like a slow way to cover the initial part of the journey. (Another data point: if the current were rapid, they would have had a hard time grabbing LaPetite as she floated by.)
This is actually a hard part of the journey - a lot of horizontal space needs to be covered for a small amount of altitude gain while the sea rises. It's easy to get trapped on an island. The boat solves that. But once you are at the continental shelf rise, you can gain altitude faster on foot, and you no longer are at risk of being at a local maximum, and therefore trapped. You're also out of the (presumably frisky) sea.

Jose

Sure, the horizontal part of the journey is problematic. I'm just hung up on why the raft is a better way to accomplish it than walking. They can travel X miles per hour by raft, and Y miles per hour on foot... the raft only helps if X >= Y, which I can't wrap my head around under the current circumstances.

They get trapped on an island if their progress wasn't fast enough, i.e. if there's a hill that they don't reach until the water has extended past it. If the raft doesn't let them move faster (X < Y), then it won't prevent them from winding up in this situation. Would it help them extricate themselves? Only if the current carries them in the right direction (which doesn't seem reliable unless they're managing to stay far enough ahead that they're in an area where the sea hasn't overtopped the riverbank -- which case by definition they're not trapped on a hill), or they have some other means of propulsion (had to see what they could come up with that could overpower the current?)

"Carrying the young and infirm" still seems like the only possible justification.

ETA: thanks for helping me wrap my head around this...


I can imagine topology wherein a two rivers could connect in a way that would allow for more successful rafting where walking along a bank would be a death sentence. As to direction, I do think the current up a newly forged fjord would be [img]fairly[/img]reliable. Not completely, though, you're right. But they have very long, sturdy pieces of lumber {or something} they used as castle stilts. They could use those to punt their raft in the right direction {and avoid treacherous shoals} until the river became 'rout 12-14 feet deep, which is pretty bloody deep considering they have trouble wading.

I buy this plot for a buck.


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