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### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:33 pm UTC
ChronosDragon wrote: I know "we" (I for one welcome our metric system overlords) screw up some units pretty bad, but that one's pretty hard to obfuscate.

You'd have to screw up pretty bad to mess up the units of a unitless ratio

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:37 pm UTC
HES wrote:
k.bookbinder wrote:Perhaps it's an issue of scale? Their small linear stick legs/feet may not leave impressions that we might observe. Perhaps only a pixel or so of material shifting with each step. A jump/slide however would leave a more sizable impression and movement of material we would recognize.

But surely the small surface area of their non-feet would exert greater pressure on the sand/soil/cancerbabies and so they would sink further. Has anyone compared leg lengths between walking and jumping?

They may not necessarily "sink" into the substance. Merely that with each step they would feel less resistance and require more energy to move forward, for with each step their feet would slide back a short distance, decreasing the efficiency of each step. Hence the "oof" as exclaimed by Cueball, fighting gravity and the exerting greater effort to move forward and upward.

edit: spelling error

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:38 pm UTC
ChronosDragon wrote:
edfel wrote:(do American people also measure steepiness in %? or is there a "miles a 10lb circular stone would roll during 0.78 minutes" unit?)
Nope, it's %. Rise / run. I know "we" (I for one welcome our metric system overlords) screw up some units pretty bad, but that one's pretty hard to obfuscate.
I've heard Americans also use feet per mile4 (for railroads anyway), but I don't know if it's mile of track, or mile of horizontal distance. Feet per chain is also used... which is interesting because "chain" is itself a variable unit.

All these odd units have their place, and I found a wonderful website which explained all of this, and why certain arcane units were actually far superior (in their realm) than any others, including metric. Alas, I have lost the bookmark, and have been unable to find it since.

Jose
4... which is rise over run2, but not quite "unitless" as there is a hidden conversion factor.
2if we aren't talking about "run of track" but rather, "run of horizontal distance"

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:39 pm UTC
edfel wrote:
ChronosDragon wrote:
Spoiler:
mscha wrote:
Megan wrote:These are bigger than they looked.
Cueball wrote:Oof.

Wimps... How high have they climbed? Can't be much more than 100q or so.

This is the furthest they've ever been in that direction. Maybe they've never climbed up that steep of a grade before.

In this particular frame they go up by 4q, which makes a total of <20q since the sea, so not a lot actually.
But indeed this part is a steep slope : 27% (do American people also measure steepiness in %? or is there a "miles a 10lb circular stone would roll during 0.78 minutes" unit?)

I think they use furlong per fathom. But it could also be gallon/acre½.
But yes, 27% is quite steep. I'd probably be oofing too.

edfel wrote:
k.bookbinder wrote:And climbing up a soft material such as a dune might be made of may make it particularly arduous.

Yes, but we've never seen any indication that they're actually sliding or anything. It's only when they jump that they visibly slide and leave tracks.

Indeed, it's either not loose sand, or they don't make much of an impression (in the literal sense) because they're stick figures and don't actually weigh anything. (But they do make an impression when jumping, which contradicts that theory.)

Edit: Ninja'd pretty badly, for the most part. (I didn't notice that there was a new NP before posting. )

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:43 pm UTC
ucim wrote:I've heard Americans also use feet per mile (for railroads anyway), but I don't know if it's mile of track, or mile of horizontal distance. Feet per chain is also used... which is interesting because "chain" is itself a variable unit.

All these odd units have their place, and I found a wonderful website which explained all of this, and why certain arcane units were actually far superior (in their realm) than any others, including metric. Alas, I have lost the bookmark, and have been unable to find it since.

Jose

It is not uncommon to find property descriptions still measured out in chains since 1 square chain = 0.1 acres (1 chain being 66 feet or 0.1 furlong).

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:58 pm UTC
I am beseeched by the outside fiction some call the "real" world to come and be present therein. I fear I shall be out of Time and away from the OTT for many a newpix. I leave with trepidation--I wish not to be stuck in such a strange and confusing place such as that that is outside of Time. *sigh*

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:00 pm UTC
ucim wrote:
ChronosDragon wrote:
edfel wrote:(do American people also measure steepiness in %? or is there a "miles a 10lb circular stone would roll during 0.78 minutes" unit?)
Nope, it's %. Rise / run. I know "we" (I for one welcome our metric system overlords) screw up some units pretty bad, but that one's pretty hard to obfuscate.
I've heard Americans also use feet per mile4 (for railroads anyway), but I don't know if it's mile of track, or mile of horizontal distance. Feet per chain is also used... which is interesting because "chain" is itself a variable unit.

All these odd units have their place, and I found a wonderful website which explained all of this, and why certain arcane units were actually far superior (in their realm) than any others, including metric. Alas, I have lost the bookmark, and have been unable to find it since.

Jose
4... which is rise over run2, but not quite "unitless" as there is a hidden conversion factor.
2if we aren't talking about "run of track" but rather, "run of horizontal distance"

The "wonderful website" you lost was it: http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/index.html "A Dictionary of Units of Measurement" or http://www.refdesk.com/factmeas.html "MY FACTS PAGE WEIGHTS AND MEASURES RESOURCES"
I worked in an assay lab where we used the "assay ton" unit: 29.17 gm. It's used in determining the amount of precious metals in an ore sample.

edit
Once more with feeling ... ONG

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:05 pm UTC
ucim wrote:I've heard Americans also use feet per mile4 (for railroads anyway), but I don't know if it's mile of track, or mile of horizontal distance.

per horizontal distance, I believe, although I'm not American. The UK uses a simple vertical:horizontal ratio (arguably metres per metre)

I can't believe I just spent 20 minutes 1/3 newpix scouring my railway engineering notes to find that. I came here to avoid revision

EDIT - I'd trust an American with real world experience (see below) over an English student with vague lecture notes

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:10 pm UTC
edfel wrote:In this particular frame they go up by 4q, which makes a total of <20q since the sea, so not a lot actually.
But indeed this part is a steep slope : 27% (do American people also measure steepiness in %? or is there a "miles a 10lb circular stone would roll during 0.78 minutes" unit?)

Probably...but not in common use in either of the tradition bound industries I am familiar with (forestry and railroading). Railroading uses percent for grades, forestry usually uses percent or degrees for slope...although it is common to use the 66' scale1,2 for measuring tree heights (back up 66', sight the top of the tree and read the height off the scale directly).

Thanks ucim for pointing out the feet per mile...this is also used to describe how steep a river is. The length unit always refers to the actual length of the thing being measured.

1Or 20 meters, about half a percent difference. Yes, they make metric 20m scales too.
2Of course, 66' is a "chain", so this scale would be feet per chain.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:13 pm UTC
ChronosDragon wrote:
edfel wrote:In this particular frame they go up by 4q, which makes a total of <20q since the sea, so not a lot actually.
But indeed this part is a steep slope : 27% (do American people also measure steepiness in %? or is there a "miles a 10lb circular stone would roll during 0.78 minutes" unit?)

Nope, it's %. Rise / run. I know "we" (I for one welcome our metric system overlords) screw up some units pretty bad, but that one's pretty hard to obfuscate.

But we still manage it. In American construction, slope/pitch is typically given in inches of rise per 12 inches of run, so you might refer to a 4/12 pitch (said "four twelve pitch") for a roof. Fine if you're dealing with simple fractional pitches, but most people would find it a little difficult to convert between "a 27% slope" and "a three-and-a-quarter twelve pitch."

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:25 pm UTC
HES wrote:Are they bigger, or is it just perspective?

That's what he said.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:31 pm UTC
Foreshortening: the tragedy and the comedy.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:43 pm UTC
So, we now have an "up to date" list of xkcd comics.
Now, how many You-Tube videos have been cited? And how many "outside" links? And how many of those are related to xkcd and/or the OTT?

(I'll admit, I'd have to have a pad and paper to do any of those. Maybe somebody could come up with a faster way? If this would be a worthy project.)

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:00 pm UTC
that's some spicy Ong

and sliding awayyyyy

edit
how many more hills till the face plant?
who will it be ?
stay tuned

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:10 pm UTC
pelrigg wrote:that's some spicy Ong
Spoiler:

and sliding awayyyyy

edit
how many more hills till the face plant?
who will it be ?
stay tuned

Quick short-term prediction1: She's preparing for another running jump. This time, at last, she'll take the long-expected tumble, but she'll regain her feet and be all nonchalant about it by the time he can see over the top of the dune.

1. Not my specialty - I prefer the long-term ones that are completely forgotten by the time they're proven wrong.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:15 pm UTC
They have climbed at least 11.5q, but the frames no longer match up as nicely as they used to, so there is no telling how far they ascended (or descended) in the interstitial space. But, this particular hill is quite a bit larger than the previous hills.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:47 pm UTC

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:02 pm UTC
We need an ONGGGG

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:05 pm UTC
cellocgw wrote:
ttscp wrote:
cellocgw wrote:Perhaps you missed the.... cymbalism there.
(more rimshots of the traditional kind. Thanks, folks, I'll be here all 48*7 newpix.. or something.)

Just finished reading your blog. I would vote for you for president.
On the other hand, I'm grateful that there aren't political posts here1
On the other hand, what's a cellist doing making percussion jokes?

1Please, please, please let us not get started with political posts, that way lies madness and flame wars. I had lunch yesterdip in a place where they had CNN on the TV. I was so far behind on Outside, I felt I was ketchupping, but also had no desire to, and I got really irritated at the lack of joy I've gotten used to seeing/reading/finding here.

Excellent: I'm up to two votes now (three if I can depend on the Spousal Unit).
And why not percussion jokes? At least I didn't start w/ the viola jokes .

How do you know when a drummer is knocking at your door?
The knock always slows down.
What do you call someone who hangs out with musicians?
A drummer.
How do you make a cello sound beautiful?
Sell it and buy a violin.

And, I couldn't resist, besides it's really a soprano joke, really.

If you threw a violist and a soprano off a cliff, which one would hit the ground first? (two answers)
The violist. The soprano would have to stop halfway down to ask directions.
Who cares?

really

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:05 pm UTC
Copernicium112 wrote:We need an ONGGGG

Megan & Cueball went up a hill
To stop the source of water
Megan fell down and broke her crown
and Cueball came tumbling after

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:05 pm UTC
I am getting Dead Sea obsessed.

Do you remember the newpix where Cueb held Megan back from the river?
Spoiler:

Well. We know the river carries drinkable water. They filled their skins several times, e.g.
Spoiler:

We know, too, that the river does not look like maintaining a strong current:
Spoiler:

In the absence of a strong current it should be not that easy for nature to build up an air/water mix dangerous for swimmers (at least if there is an additional lack of water falls).*

Dangerous fishes... Piranhas. In an environment with no vegetation? Unlikely. Sharks/Barracuda. In fresh water? And even then Time Lord Randall would have placed a "need a bigger boat"-phrase by now. So - no.

Well. There may be another reason: It is not unheared of that a river is used as a natural political boundary.
Surprise. West of river Jordan you'll find Israel. A short swim later and you place your feet on Jordania ground. This may not be received well.

*Do not, NEVER EVER, try to swim in an activated sludge tank - unless you want to drown yourself. And even then - almost any other pick is less smelly.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:14 pm UTC
higgs-boson wrote:Dangerous fishes... Piranhas. In an environment with no vegetation? Unlikely. Sharks/Barracuda. In fresh water? And even then Time Lord Randall would have placed a "need a bigger boat"-phrase by now. So - no.

I thought we already established that there are pirañinjas in the river? Those definitely thrive in a vegetation-less environment: they're the only predator that is able to hide from their prey.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:25 pm UTC
mscha wrote:
higgs-boson wrote:Dangerous fishes... Piranhas. In an environment with no vegetation? Unlikely. Sharks/Barracuda. In fresh water? And even then Time Lord Randall would have placed a "need a bigger boat"-phrase by now. So - no.

I thought we already established that there are pirañinjas in the river? Those definitely thrive in a vegetation-less environment: they're the only predator that is able to hide from their prey.

Even pirate ninja hero tortoises would still need to eat on regular basis. And even tapsy Cueball keeps clear.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:29 pm UTC
edfel wrote:
ChronosDragon wrote:
mscha wrote:
Megan wrote:These are bigger than they looked.
Cueball wrote:Oof.

Wimps... How high have they climbed? Can't be much more than 100q or so.

This is the furthest they've ever been in that direction. Maybe they've never climbed up that steep of a grade before.

In this particular frame they go up by 4q, which makes a total of <20q since the sea, so not a lot actually.
But indeed this part is a steep slope : 27% (do American people also measure steepiness in %? or is there a "miles a 10lb circular stone would roll during 0.78 minutes" unit?)

k.bookbinder wrote:And climbing up a soft material such as a dune might be made of may make it particularly arduous.

Yes, but we've never seen any indication that they're actually sliding or anything. It's only when they jump that they visibly slide and leave tracks.

Spoiler:
I'm joking
/blindpost

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:34 pm UTC
Ketchup:
Periods/eras:
Spoiler:
edfel wrote:
Kazza3 wrote:I say this though I can't be bothered to do it myself right now, but I might note that no-one's updated or talked about periods recently- last one was the River period, around 200 newpix ago- this journey could probably be broken up further.

Indeed. They're not even following the river now, and we're not sure they're going to find it again (remember: it was Cueball who proposed to go this way, and he's not the explorer of the group).

Maybe we can have the following periods : river, hills, flatland, dunes ?

We don't want to subdivide it too far. Maybe split it off at either the start or end of the superflat chunk, and name the new period the Desert period until we have a better name for it?

OTT comedy:
Spoiler:
pelrigg wrote:
mscha wrote:
pelrigg wrote:edfel, I was on your Map Page, pondering and looking. Great job by the way.
{In fact, all of those who have been making any of these off-site tributes to the OTC deserve a round of applause}
Didn't you have Megball's journey marked out on a previous version? Could you bring that back, perhaps?

I'm not edfel, but you can toggle annotations on the map by clicking on ... you get the idea.
(It looks like the default was changed from ‘on’ to ‘off’, was than op purpose, edfel?)

The version I called up (from his sig) makes the entire page a single image. Which might be why the "Toggle Annotations" button doesn't work.

cellocgw wrote:
azule wrote:
fatness wrote:That's what my wife told me last night.

* rimshot *
* cymbal crash *

Um, I know what a job involving rims is...therefore I can get what the shot is.... but cymbal crash? I'm perplexed. Something to do with boobs, um, crashing them together like cymbals? Does that turn you on, or her?

Perhaps you missed the.... cymbalism there.
(more rimshots of the traditional kind. Thanks, folks, I'll be here all 48*7 newpix.. or something.)

ttscp wrote:
On the other hand, what's a cellist doing making percussion jokes?

Yes, yes stand-up comedy on the OTC...
"You, sir, what do you do?" ... "A podiatrist? (never mind) And how about you sir?" ... "An accountant??? ... what is there a boring occupation convention in town?"
* rimshot *
* cymbal crash *

"Is this mike on?" thump, thump
"Where's the guy I paid to laugh at my jokes? ... hmm... maybe I should have paid him after the show."
* rimshot *
* cymbal crash *

"Hey I've got a million of them....and if you don't start laughing I'll tell them all"
* rimshot *
* cymbal crash *

Don't forget Helper's long-ago bit about ordering coffee sans babies.[/spoiler]
Weddings and movement from place to place Outside:
Spoiler:
akacat wrote:
HAL9000 wrote:If the wedding's in North Carolina, we may be only two degrees of separation away. Which provokes an interesting thought. I wonder if I've ever talked to someone anonymously online, and we knew each other (or almost knew each other) in the Outside but didn't realize it?
See now I'm all paranoid.

I haven't yet condimented for the morning, but I couldn't resist commenting from the past, as I'm also in North Carolina! Raleigh, to be a little more specific.

And I'm curious, how can a computer transition between Inside and Outside so easily?

Well, I'm not in NC. My friend is, for her brother's wedding. As for how I can move around so easily, well, I am on a spaceship.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:39 pm UTC
mscha wrote:
edfel wrote:
ChronosDragon wrote:
Spoiler:
mscha wrote:
Megan wrote:These are bigger than they looked.
Cueball wrote:Oof.

Wimps... How high have they climbed? Can't be much more than 100q or so.

This is the furthest they've ever been in that direction. Maybe they've never climbed up that steep of a grade before.

In this particular frame they go up by 4q, which makes a total of <20q since the sea, so not a lot actually.
But indeed this part is a steep slope : 27% (do American people also measure steepiness in %? or is there a "miles a 10lb circular stone would roll during 0.78 minutes" unit?)

I think they use furlong per fathom. But it could also be gallon/acre½.
But yes, 27% is quite steep. I'd probably be oofing too.

edfel wrote:
k.bookbinder wrote:And climbing up a soft material such as a dune might be made of may make it particularly arduous.

Yes, but we've never seen any indication that they're actually sliding or anything. It's only when they jump that they visibly slide and leave tracks.

Indeed, it's either not loose sand, or they don't make much of an impression (in the literal sense) because they're stick figures and don't actually weigh anything. (But they do make an impression when jumping, which contradicts that theory.)

Edit: Ninja'd pretty badly, for the most part. (I didn't notice that there was a new NP before posting. )

Most people can't readily comprehend a slope described in %. How steep is a 10% slope; or a 25% slope? More meaningful in most cases is slope expressed as degrees. Almost everyone can relate to a clock face with the hour positions marked every 30o. It is relatively easy to interpolate the unit positions between 30o, 60o and 90o.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:00 pm UTC
That went wrONG...

Edit: had to happen some time.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:03 pm UTC
So now the prophets tell us that she must pick herself up before she's in Cueball's line of sight, n'est-ce pas?

Do we stone false prophets here, or simply pelt them with slightly after-best-before-date M&Ms?

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:03 pm UTC
We can deduce she is not a lesbian athlete. Soon all our questions will be answered.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:06 pm UTC
Oh dear Randall she broke in half!

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:12 pm UTC
She's a fallen woman! Now we'll see Cueball hanging around trying to pick her up. Tomorrow he'll check to see if she's a pushover, because all he wants is a one night stand.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:19 pm UTC
In the UK, gradients used to be expressed by a ratio. So a 1:4 hill was pretty steep (every unit you go up you travel along four units - equivalent to 25% in the 'new' system, 14° or 0.245 radians), whereas 1:10 (10%, 5.7° or a smidgen under 0.01 radians) is usually the shallowest to get hill warning signs.

Anyway, assuming they're travelling over dunes, and because they're suspiciously triangular in shape, has anyone suggested "Walk like an Egyptian" to the playlist yet?

Before the dunes were revealed and they were travelling uphill (well, courtesy of Copernicum's panorama, it looks as though they're still generally heading uphill), I initially thought of mountains and three songs:
a) Climb Every Mountain (Sound of Music),
b) Climbing over rocky mountain (Pirates of Penzance),
c) A certain children's song...

# Cueball went over the mountain / Megan went over the mountain.
# They both went over the mountain / To see what they could see.
# And all that they could see / And all that they could see.
# Was the other side of the mountain / The other side of the mountain.
# The other side of the mountain / Was all that they could see.

Did I ever tell you I have a very eclectic and eccentric taste in music?

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:39 pm UTC
AnotherKevin wrote:She's a fallen woman! Now we'll see Cueball hanging around trying to pick her up. Tomorrow he'll check to see if she's a pushover, because all he wants is a one night sand.

FTFY

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:47 pm UTC
Sciscitor wrote:Someone (sorry, I need to coma now and can't be bothered to look it up) asked for a list of all referenced YouTube Videos in the OTT.

Unfortunately there is no way for me to automagically get the titles of those videos marked with "Sorry, can't view this video in my country!", and they are too many to look them up manually.

Righteo, now extracted to a Google Document (write access to anyone with the link if you want to edit some of the "Sorry can't view" titles or add any others they missed) for me to look at once I've got my YouTube playlist caught up with that shown in the Wiki. Some of those are probably already in the playlist (several links are shown in light blue text indicating I've already viewed them) but others aren't.

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:48 pm UTC
mittfh wrote:Anyway, assuming they're travelling over dunes, and because they're suspiciously triangular in shape, has anyone suggested "Walk like an Egyptian" to the playlist yet?

Before the dunes were revealed and they were travelling uphill (well, courtesy of Copernicum's panorama, it looks as though they're still generally heading uphill), I initially thought of mountains and three songs:
a) Climb Every Mountain (Sound of Music),
b) Climbing over rocky mountain (Pirates of Penzance),
c) A certain children's song...

# Cueball went over the mountain / Megan went over the mountain.
# They both went over the mountain / To see what they could see.
# And all that they could see / And all that they could see.
# Was the other side of the mountain / The other side of the mountain.
# The other side of the mountain / Was all that they could see.

Did I ever tell you I have a very eclectic and eccentric taste in music?

Don't forget "She'll Be Coming 'Round The Mountain When She Comes"¹ and "On Top Of Old Smoky".

1: Get your mind out of the gutter, you!

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:00 pm UTC
ALLYOURONGAREBELONGTOUS!!

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:01 pm UTC
KarMann wrote:ALLYOURONGAREBELONGTOUS!!
Spoiler:

Ooh...fabulONG!

### Re: 1190: "Time"

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:02 pm UTC
KarMann wrote:ALLYOURONGAREBELONGTOUS!!
Spoiler:

Cueball's still too far back to have seen her fail. Will she shake it off and pretend like nothing happened, or fess up to Cueball that she has his brain-eating amoeba?