1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Moose Anus » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:31 pm UTC

If it's a cryptogram, then I'm pretty sure they're saying that they admire Cueball's six pack, and they lifted the itchy from Megan's knee. I'm not sure about the rest.
http://www.blisstonia.com/software/WebDecrypto/index.php wrote:ABS OK
ALP TV EN NOW
FM ITCHY LIFTED
IS IQRQJU O X BURG
ITCHY LIFTED


Showing my inputs:
Spoiler:
Flat1Epsilon1Longtail1 Curled1Flat2
Flat3Pinched1Longtail2 Seven1Kay1 Humpback1Enn1 Enn2Curled2Closed1
Chair1Epsilon2 Epsilon3Seven2Chair2Humpback2Snake1 Pinched2Epsilon3Chair3Seven3Humpback3Open1
Epsilon4Longtail3 Epsilon5Two1Longtail4Two2Seven4Six1 Curled1 Chair4 Epsilon6Six2Longtail5Closed2
Epsilon3Seven2Chair2Humpback2Snake1 Pinched2Epsilon3Chair3Seven3Humpback3Open1


F=Flat1=Flat3
B=Flat2
J=Flat4
D=Epsilon1=Epsilon4=Epsilon6
E=Epsilon2
A=Epsilon3=Epsilon5
G=Longtail1=Longtail3
L=Longtail2
I=Longtail4=Longtail5
Y=Curled1=Curled2=Curled3
P=Pinched1=Pinched2
Q=Seven1=Seven2=Seven3
V=Seven4
K=Kay1
Z=Humpback1=Humpback3
H=Humpback2
N=Enn1=Enn2
R=Closed1
W=Closed2
C=Chair1=Chair3
U=Chair2
M=Chair4
S=Snake1
O=Open1
T=Two1=Two2
X=Six1=Six2


FDG YB
FPL QK ZN NYR
CE AQUHS PACQZO
AG ATITVX Y M DXIW
AQUHS PACQZO
Lemonade? ...Aww, ok.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:32 pm UTC

Itchy lifting salve!

tallmanjones wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:Greetings, kenmelken's best man! Feel free to hop in any Time you like. :)

Warm wishes and returned greetings, BlitzGirl, reigning queen of the OTT. Though I do not currently have the Time nor the munitions for a full blitz, I have had a lot of Ketchup lately and found it to my liking.

And greetings to everyone.

As a lowly newcomer, may I humbly request an update to the wiki's glossary? The transition from Outsider is a hard one, but so far worth the effort.
Perhaps our jargon needs a name itself. Maybe Time-ish. Or Timese?

Nice to meet you, tallmanjones! It looks like someone helpful went through and cleaned up the glossary a bit - thanks, whoever that was. I'll take a look through it and see if there are things we need to add/clarify. If we're going to have a name for our words, I would suggest OTTish slang, perhaps, but it's not really a separate language so much as an enhancement of the English language. :)

ucim wrote:I added a page to the wiki:
http://xkcd-time.wikia.com/wiki/Beanish_dialog
concentrating on phrases of the Beanish dialog. Perhaps it will be helpful to those who are looking for phrase and word repeats to synch with speculated meanings. Feel free to edit.

Looks great, Jose! We needed something like that.

ZoomanSP wrote:Which brings me to my next point: I feel that the approach of grouping the characters and speculating about diacrits denoting vowels will be fruitful.
However, we shouldn't neglect frequency analyses. For example, subjecting the Latin alphabet to a grouping similar to BlitzGirl's grouping of the Beanish characters might result in something like this (the assignment of some characters, like U, J, or K, may be debated):
Spoiler:
The hills and valleys: AMNUVWXY
The sticks with curves: BDPR
The circulars: CGOQ
The rectangulars: EFHIJLT
The kay: K
The snakes: SZ

I don't know whether this might be helpful do decode English, or any other language written with Latin characters.

Agreed. The character groupings are intended to isolate diacritic markings that indicate vowels or punctuation, as well as any potential rotation ("pointing") that might be going on. For actual word-meaning, I'd look to ucim's Beanish Dialog work, which has that as the focus. Frequency analysis is important, as long as we take into account that a single symbol may represent two or more Roman alphabet characters.

Arky wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:I'm happy that we didn't get any "new" Beanish while I was acoma - saves me some work. As has been pointed out, Speech 5 is identical to the last two "words" of Speech 3. Since the symbols are exactly the same, I didn't bother to upload them, but copied the ones from Speech 3. Now we just have to figure out what ImageImage means!

It's hard to see how it would work if it was left to right because the vowel mark (if that is indeed what it is) is on the second character of the first word". Not that there's no possible words, but can't think of one in context.

That's why I suspect that the rotation of the second symbol indicates a different sound. Maybe the epsilon is normally a vowel like "eh" but when turned on its side it's pronounced "et".
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:34 pm UTC

Hi, first post...

It's possible that the symbol to the left of "magic salve" (the repeated phrase) is the NAME of the third Beanie...

(just to make it worse)

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Re: ᘛ - Beanish Update

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:36 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:I'm happy that we didn't get any "new" Beanish while I was acoma - saves me some work. As has been pointed out, Speech 5 is identical to the last two "words" of Speech 3. Since the symbols are exactly the same, I didn't bother to upload them, but copied the ones from Speech 3. Now we just have to figure out what ImageImage means!

If we can assume 5 is a response for Megan's question about the medicine, then it seems fit that in 3 one Beanie was sent to fetch said ointment - making ImageImageImageImageImage ImageImageImageImageImageImage the medicine and probably ImageImage the verb/command to go get it.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:42 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:I'm happy that we didn't get any "new" Beanish while I was acoma - saves me some work. As has been pointed out, Speech 5 is identical to the last two "words" of Speech 3. Since the symbols are exactly the same, I didn't bother to upload them, but copied the ones from Speech 3. Now we just have to figure out what ImageImage means!

If we can assume 5 is a response for Megan's question about the medicine, then it seems fit that in 3 one Beanie was sent to fetch said ointment - making ImageImageImageImageImage ImageImageImageImageImageImage the medicine and probably ImageImage the verb/command to go get it.


Bear in mind that some of ImageImageImageImageImage ImageImageImageImageImageImage may be the location of the ointment - i.e. "Go get the ointment from the box in the little hut" or something.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:45 pm UTC

Also, the two-letter groups ImageImage from speech 1, ImageImage from speech 4 and ImageImage from the end of speech 4 are identical, save for a diacritic or something.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:47 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:Bear in mind that some of ImageImageImageImageImage ImageImageImageImageImageImage may be the location of the ointment - i.e. "Go get the ointment from the box in the little hut" or something.

It would serve little purpose to repeat that whole phrase - "ointment from the box in the little hut" - to Megan. Even so, it would be two words describing said object.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:47 pm UTC

jovialbard wrote:
NoMouse wrote:And here's my theoryq: If we assume that Cuegan is really talking Englishw and Beanies have developed completely new language in 11000 years (which makes sense) then there is only one explanation for it - Cueball and Megan are either time travelers or they have been in stasis and the side effect of the time travel or stasis is this huge amnesia that causes they don't know how anything works.

q I'm almost sure someone has already come up with similar theory.
w Of course this may not be true.


Or their conversation is just translated for our convenience and since we are following them from their perspective we don't get the translation of the others.

eta: derp double-post

That's how I've always seen it (and have said so before when it's come up). It's like virtually any other modern work of fiction set in the past or future - they still use modern English that's familiar to us even though it's set in a distant time, simply for the convenience of the readers/viewers.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Moose Anus » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:48 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:
taixzo wrote:Bear in mind that some of ImageImageImageImageImage ImageImageImageImageImageImage may be the location of the ointment - i.e. "Go get the ointment from the box in the little hut" or something.

It would serve little purpose to repeat that whole phrase - "ointment from the box in the little hut" - to Megan. Even so, it would be two words describing said object.
They probably don't fully understand what Megan said either, so they might not be saying the name of the object at all.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:49 pm UTC

Bear in mind that some of (the repeated text) may be the location of the ointment - i.e. "Go get the ointment from the box in the little hut" or something.


"That. What is that?"
"The ointment from the box in the little hut."

ohmiRandall, we might have germanic wordtogethersquishen! That would just be mean....

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:50 pm UTC

Moose Anus wrote:
SinusPi wrote:It would serve little purpose to repeat that whole phrase - "ointment from the box in the little hut" - to Megan. Even so, it would be two words describing said object.
They probably don't fully understand what Megan said either, so they might not be saying the name of the object at all.
Then why would xe repeat to her the very words which he used to instruct xir friend to bring the medicine?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:51 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:That's why I suspect that the rotation of the second symbol indicates a different sound. Maybe the epsilon is normally a vowel like "eh" but when turned on its side it's pronounced "et".

...and we have to wait for et!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cellocgw » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:53 pm UTC

Moose Anus wrote:
SinusPi wrote:
taixzo wrote:Bear in mind that some of ImageImageImageImageImage ImageImageImageImageImageImage may be the location of the ointment - i.e. "Go get the ointment from the box in the little hut" or something.

It would serve little purpose to repeat that whole phrase - "ointment from the box in the little hut" - to Megan. Even so, it would be two words describing said object.
They probably don't fully understand what Megan said either, so they might not be saying the name of the object at all.


I think the translation is pretty clear: "Randall's going for the mother of all nerdsnipes here." I mean, the guy can only go so long serving up puzzles that have solutions.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Moose Anus » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:53 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:
Moose Anus wrote:
SinusPi wrote:It would serve little purpose to repeat that whole phrase - "ointment from the box in the little hut" - to Megan. Even so, it would be two words describing said object.
They probably don't fully understand what Megan said either, so they might not be saying the name of the object at all.
Then why would xe repeat to her the very words which he used to instruct xir friend to bring the medicine?
Text3: Go get some paste and stop being a jerk!
Text5: Stop being a jerk.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Febrion » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:55 pm UTC

meerta wrote:Think I chose the wrong time to post my astronomy question. It's all linguists now.

I think I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fhorn » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:03 pm UTC

It's all lONGuists now
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ZoomanSP » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:13 pm UTC

Moose Anus wrote:
SinusPi wrote:
taixzo wrote:Bear in mind that some of ImageImageImageImageImage ImageImageImageImageImageImage may be the location of the ointment - i.e. "Go get the ointment from the box in the little hut" or something.

It would serve little purpose to repeat that whole phrase - "ointment from the box in the little hut" - to Megan. Even so, it would be two words describing said object.
They probably don't fully understand what Megan said either, so they might not be saying the name of the object at all.

Since Megan pointed at the paste(?) in the previous frame, I think it's safe to assume (Occam, anyone?) that speech 5 names the paste (e.g., "Healing paste."), and that speech 3 meant something like "Get the healing paste."
Wait on.

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Spoiler:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby thirds » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:15 pm UTC

We need more speech examples to really draw any conclusions. At most we have one possible object reference, and that's only an assumption. (I'm an actual computational linguist by day).

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Montov » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:17 pm UTC

For all the people who think the language/pictures look familiar: I think the OTC will loop, and you're already in the second iteration.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:20 pm UTC

thirds wrote:We need more speech examples to really draw any conclusions. At most we have one possible object reference, and that's only an assumption. (I'm an actual computational linguist by day).

Indeed an assumption it is, but pretty much any interpretation is an assumption, taking as much context into account as the listener - not the speaker! - deems valid.
With the object directly indicated (Megan points to paste), and the context described several frames ago (Megan unwraps wound, Beanies cringe), and an interpretation-and-action already performed by a fluent speaker of the language (Beanie hears speech 3 and brings paste), I believe the assumption to have a high probability of correctness.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby kenmelken » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:24 pm UTC

tallmanjones wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:Greetings, kenmelken's best man! Feel free to hop in any Time you like. :)


Warm wishes and returned greetings, BlitzGirl, reigning queen of the OTT. Though I do not currently have the Time nor the munitions for a full blitz, I have had a lot of Ketchup lately and found it to my liking.

And greetings to everyone.

As a lowly newcomer, may I humbly request an update to the wiki's glossary? The transition from Outsider is a hard one, but so far worth the effort.
Perhaps our jargon needs a name itself. Maybe Time-ish. Or Timese?


Hahahaha. I officially have brought a friend with me to the OTT. :D And he joined during my 5th imperial reign!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Someguy945 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:24 pm UTC

thirds wrote:We need more speech examples to really draw any conclusions.


Right, but we don't need any more speech examples to speculate wildly :D

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Rule110 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:34 pm UTC

Prompted by charlie_grumbles' fine updates, I've been watching the Tour de France today.

Obviously even with charlie's help, there's some learning curve to being able to understand the action. Also, it seems Queen has misled me. No fat-bottomed girls are riding today.

So, meanwhile (or 11,000 years later), we're moving on to the Beanies'... camp, maybe. Or current work site, maybe that second survey tower they saw.

I have to agree with the interpretation of the beanish utterances as about the wound paste. I understand that we can't be definitive, but remember that this isn't the real world and we can also add reasonable assumptions about authorial intent to our information. It's probably what it seems to be, for much the same reason that the unseen thing that causes some passersby to stop and gasp in surprise at the start of a Law and Order episode is probably going to be a dead body and not a birthday cake. Randall could mislead us about the language at every step, making us look stupid for failing to consider every conceivable possibility instead of the most likely ones, but why? There's no evidence that's what the story is about.

Um, Someguy945 just said it much more concisely.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:46 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:Also, the two-letter groups ImageImage from speech 1, ImageImage from speech 4 and ImageImage from the end of speech 4 are identical, save for a diacritic or something.

In speech 1, he's speaking to Megan. In speech 4 he's talking to his buddy. At first I was going to say it could denote a question (where did you come from? / can you run and get the medicine?) but that doesn't make sense with it twice in one speech, at the beginning and end. So I'm just still at a loss and will continue to condiment in silence as I have done these past many NPs whilst the linguists figure stuff out. :|
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:48 pm UTC

kenmelken wrote:Hahahaha. I officially have brought a friend with me to the OTT. :D And he joined during my 5th imperial reign!

Well, this solves the long standing mystery of whether any OTTers know each other on the outside.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:55 pm UTC

HES wrote:
kenmelken wrote:Hahahaha. I officially have brought a friend with me to the OTT. :D And he joined during my 5th imperial reign!

Well, this solves the long standing mystery of whether any OTTers know each other on the outside.
But that's like proving there's a bad apple in the bunch by putting one in...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:56 pm UTC

Just added a bunch of our words to the Wiki's glossary, as per request. We're up to a round fifty of them.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fhorn » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:03 pm UTC

righting a wrONG
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:03 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:
HES wrote:
kenmelken wrote:Hahahaha. I officially have brought a friend with me to the OTT. :D And he joined during my 5th imperial reign!

Well, this solves the long standing mystery of whether any OTTers know each other on the outside.
But that's like proving there's a bad apple in the bunch by putting one in...

I didn't say it was a good solution
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:04 pm UTC

I saw that, fhorn. :D

(Don't worry, I won't tell anybody.)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fhorn » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:06 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:I saw that, fhorn. :D

(Don't worry, I won't tell anybody.)

yeah, what the hell was that? :oops:
and I much preferred my original title: LurONG them to their doom, thus ending Time (with apologies to Neil_Boekend).

eta: I couldn't punch that "delete post" x fast enough! :lol:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Wildhound » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:10 pm UTC

fhorn wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:I saw that, fhorn. :D

(Don't worry, I won't tell anybody.)

yeah, what the hell was that? :oops:

...

eta: I couldn't punch that "delete post" x fast enough! :lol:


Aww this must have been deliciously embarrassing and I missed it. :(
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:14 pm UTC

How the chirp is Beanie guy standing like that? Doesn't look comfortable 0.o
BlitzGirl wrote:Just added a bunch of our words to the Wiki's glossary, as per request. We're up to a round fifty of them.

Oh, awesomeful! I see at least three that were coined by me :mrgreen:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:15 pm UTC

Febrion wrote:
meerta wrote:Think I chose the wrong time to post my astronomy question. It's all linguists now.

I think I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.

Yes you did. Now just be careful with the win...dow.

@BlitzGirl: could you please zip up all we got so far and PM me? I'll try to sort them out and choose their names.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby JGeezer » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:17 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:Just added a bunch of our words to the Wiki's glossary, as per request. We're up to a round fifty of them.


I just love it when the glossary comes up prefixed with this ad:

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:20 pm UTC

JGeezer wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:Just added a bunch of our words to the Wiki's glossary, as per request. We're up to a round fifty of them.


I just love it when the glossary comes up prefixed with this ad:

Ad.jpg


That's it! In ten days we will all be fluent in Beanish!

ETA: Also, wouldn't a cue refer to the height of Cueball, not the length?
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jovialbard
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jovialbard » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:23 pm UTC

Assumptions and Theories (from someone who, admittedly, doesn't know what he's talking about):

Randell may have had that long lull before the beanie bunch to buy time to invent a new language.
I doubt Randell had a full language fleshed out in March, he's probably been developing it some time since then, though he may have had the idea for it already.
I doubt this is a direct letter for letter transcript from English, that doesn't sound fun enough.
I doubt that this is anything but an alphabetic language, because that sounds too hard.
However, this begs the question, did Randell develop a language or is he simply using arcane phonetic notations for a language he already knows (being an American, I of course assume that would be English, American English that is :) ).
Thinking about the problem domain, and given the slow pace at which the language is being spoken. I expect it's entirely possible that he is making up words and writing them in his alphabet as he needs them.
If I were creating a language, I would make my alphabet phonetic. It's simpler, and having a non-phonetic alphabet generally implies the creation of several different language origins, which would make the problem more complex.
A phonetic language only helps us if they are speaking English underneath it all, since we will never hear them speak to know what each phoneme sounds like. Unless Cuegan tries to repeat something they saying using roughly phonetic English spelling.
If all of this is true, then identifying letter groups (that aren't whole words) is futile. It might give us a chance to identify what the language sounds like, but rarely do phonetic groupings (that aren't whole words) actually hold meaning. There are obvious exceptions to that, 's' or 'ed' at the end of a word for example, but that gives us little help in translating.
What this means is that the only thing we have to go on in translating their speech is identifying nouns based on gesturing (like the medicine) or pronouns (if we see something that might be 'you' popping up repeatedly).
As far as the nature of their vocabulary, I think it's safe to assume that they have a relatively English-like word set. I somewhat doubt that Randell developed an entire divergent culture based on different notions of vocabulary and how they express themselves. (e.g. Having no words for Left and Right and using a complex vocabulary for Cardinal directions instead)
There are probably pronouns.
There may not be articles but I would guess there are (though the more language we see without extremely common letter groupings, the more likely there aren't).
However, there's no reason that verbs and nouns and adjectives go in the same order as English, but it would certainly be easier for Randell if they did.
With the words as short as they are so far, I'm guessing it's more Latin in language style than Germanic, in that they tend to use separate adjectives instead of making really long words to describe something.
Tenses, conjugations, and such may be simplified, which would also make things easier for Randell if he's constructing a language instead of just a phonetic English alphabet.

To summarize, it's probably either English written in a weird phonetic alphabet, which should be relatively simple to crack. If it isn't, it's probably a made up language, and our only real hope is to start to get used to specific words and begin developing a vocabulary from scratch.

I am not a linguistics expert by any stretch of the imagination, but guessing wildly is fun!
Last edited by jovialbard on Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:30 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
I wrote a book exploring the nature of identity and loss of self! And another book about babies!
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richP
Posts: 195
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby richP » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:27 pm UTC

Rule110 wrote:(snip) Also, it seems Queen has misled me. No fat-bottomed girls are riding today.
(snip)


Nah, Queen didn't mislead you. The fat-bottomed girls are too busy making the rockin world go round to bother with the TdF. Now get on yer bikes and ride!

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thirds
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby thirds » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:30 pm UTC

jovialbard wrote:If all of this is true, then identifying letter groups (that aren't whole words) is futile. It might give us a chance to identify what the language sounds like, but rarely do phonetic groupings (that aren't whole words) actually hold meaning. There are obvious exceptions to that, 's' or 'ed' at the end of a word for example, but that gives us little help in translating.
What this means is that the only thing we have to go on in translating their speech is identifying nouns based on gesturing (like the medicine) or pronouns (if we see something that might be 'you' popping up repeatedly).

Agreed.

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fhorn
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fhorn » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:32 pm UTC

Wildhound wrote:
fhorn wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:I saw that, fhorn. :D

(Don't worry, I won't tell anybody.)

yeah, what the hell was that? :oops:

...

eta: I couldn't punch that "delete post" x fast enough! :lol:


Aww this must have been deliciously embarrassing and I missed it. :(

Never you mind. BG and I have a secret now. of course, this makes me a good target for blackmail, better load up on cupcakes and whatnot
"...or I shall have to find Chekov myself, and shoot him with his own damn gun" - k.bookbinder
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