1193: Externalities

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Twistar
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Twistar » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:59 pm UTC

This is very troubling. Three schools I'm choosing between for grad school (Have to choose by a week from monday or something) are in the top ten and this is playing a non-zero role in my decision making process....

kandalf
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby kandalf » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:26 pm UTC

We have a Go implementation running on 40 or so c1.xlarge ec2 instances. I think we're at something like 16 million/second total (i.e. 50k/core). The obvious next step would be to rewrite in C or for the GPU, but it seems so far no one here has the motivation to do that. The one aws code/billing cycle limit is pretty limiting too.

blowfishhootie
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby blowfishhootie » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:28 pm UTC

Twistar wrote:This is very troubling. Three schools I'm choosing between for grad school (Have to choose by a week from monday or something) are in the top ten and this is playing a non-zero role in my decision making process....


You are right, that is troubling. You need a better set of priorities.

shrx
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby shrx » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:38 pm UTC

School not found :(

fkkt.uni-lj.si

karmicactus
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby karmicactus » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:39 pm UTC

here's an extension to the c implementation posted earlier in case anyone is stuck:

Code: Select all

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <time.h>
#include <string.h>

#include "skein.h"

int main(int argc, char *argv[]){
   const char goal[] = {0x5b, 0x4d, 0xa9, 0x5f, 0x5f, 0xa0, 0x82, 0x80, 0xfc, 0x98, 0x79, 0xdf, 0x44, 0xf4, 0x18, 0xc8, 0xf9, 0xf1, 0x2b, 0xa4, 0x24, 0xb7, 0x75, 0x7d, 0xe0, 0x2b, 0xbd, 0xfb, 0xae, 0x0d, 0x4c, 0x4f, 0xdf, 0x93, 0x17, 0xc8, 0x0c, 0xc5, 0xfe, 0x04, 0xc6, 0x42, 0x90, 0x73, 0x46, 0x6c, 0xf2, 0x97, 0x06, 0xb8, 0xc2, 0x59, 0x99, 0xdd, 0xd2, 0xf6, 0x54, 0x0d, 0x44, 0x75, 0xcc, 0x97, 0x7b, 0x87, 0xf4, 0x75, 0x7b, 0xe0, 0x23, 0xf1, 0x9b, 0x8f, 0x40, 0x35, 0xd7, 0x72, 0x28, 0x86, 0xb7, 0x88, 0x69, 0x82, 0x6d, 0xe9, 0x16, 0xa7, 0x9c, 0xf9, 0xc9, 0x4c, 0xc7, 0x9c, 0xd4, 0x34, 0x7d, 0x24, 0xb5, 0x67, 0xaa, 0x3e, 0x23, 0x90, 0xa5, 0x73, 0xa3, 0x73, 0xa4, 0x8a, 0x5e, 0x67, 0x66, 0x40, 0xc7, 0x9c, 0xc7, 0x01, 0x97, 0xe1, 0xc5, 0xe7, 0xf9, 0x02, 0xfb, 0x53, 0xca, 0x18, 0x58, 0xb6};

   const char *chars = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789+";

   int best = 99999999;
   size_t i;
   char c;
   char msg[100]; // 1024
   unsigned int diff, length;
   unsigned char x;
   unsigned int numChars = strlen(chars);
   unsigned int period = 0;

   u08b_t hashval[128];
   Skein1024_Ctxt_t ctx;

   srandom(time(0));

   while(1){
      length = (random() % (sizeof(msg) - 5)) + 5;
      for(i = 0; i < length; i++)
         msg[i] = chars[random() % numChars];

      Skein1024_Init(&ctx, 1024);
      Skein1024_Update(&ctx, (const u08b_t*)msg, length);
      Skein1024_Final(&ctx, hashval);
      diff = 0;
      for(i = 0; i < 128; i++){
         x = hashval[i] ^ goal[i];
         while(x > 0){
            if((x & 1) == 1)
               diff++;
            x >>= 1;
         }
      }
      if(diff < best){
         best = diff;
         fprintf(stderr, "%d => %.*s\n", diff, length, msg);
      }

      if(++period == 0){
         fprintf(stderr, "reseed\n");
         srandom(time(0));
      }
   }

   return 0;
}


i'm sure this could be optimized but seems to work well enough for now...

richP
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby richP » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:40 pm UTC

elysdir wrote:Has anyone put together a SETI@home-like distributed system to work on this? I see that a bunch of you are using many cores, but I mean has someone set up a server that's parceling out chunks of the search space to thousands of machines worldwide?


Yes, someone has.
Spoiler:
Some dude named Randall put together a web comic, gathered a bunch of nerdy followers over the years, and then eventually published a comic that encourages them to work on breaking the hash.

Tigga
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Tigga » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:51 pm UTC

kandalf wrote:We have a Go implementation running on 40 or so c1.xlarge ec2 instances. I think we're at something like 16 million/second total (i.e. 50k/core). The obvious next step would be to rewrite in C or for the GPU, but it seems so far no one here has the motivation to do that. The one aws code/billing cycle limit is pretty limiting too.

That was going to be my job for today, but given the "competition" ends tonight and I don't have many GPUs at my disposal (and those I do are doing calculations for my PhD...) I decided it wasn't worth bothering.

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Kailen
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Kailen » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:27 pm UTC

So, we have people trying to break the hash though collective CPU.. but has anyone just, I dunno, Googled "list of community colleges" and, say, gone down this? 'Cause I'm seeing several that aren't on the list yet.
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Purplegill10
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Purplegill10 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:04 pm UTC

After typing random characters I got down to 484 bits off...
I have no idea what I'm doing

bsittler
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby bsittler » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:26 pm UTC

My limited forum search abilities don't show this info elsewhere, so, in the interests of sparing folks some tears:

Randall is running a URL-encoding step which converts space to + and encodes other URL-unsafe characters (including UTF-8) using %XX hexadecimal escapes. So, for instance, '%' is encoded as '%25' before the hash is computed (but bare '%' is what should be typed into the text box on the web page.)

Perhaps this URL-encoding is a clue of some sort?

speising
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby speising » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:55 pm UTC

i suspect randall has forgotten his email password and is recruiting our (well, your, since i'm neither in school nor would he accept the url's) workforce to brute force it.

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pitareio
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:03 pm UTC

Purplegill10 wrote:After typing random characters I got down to 484 bits off...
I have no idea what I'm doing


Your method is correct, just not very efficient.

And you actually have a chance to get the best score this way. The odds are slightly worse than winning the lottery twice in a row, but still...

Kemp
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Kemp » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:13 pm UTC

All the UK universities have disappeared, replaced with "ac.uk". Did someone submit as that and somehow collapse all the existing results into a single one?

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pitareio
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:19 pm UTC

looks like you can now enter almost any url you like, take a look at http://almamater.xkcd.com/best.csv ...

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Xeio » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:24 pm UTC

pitareio wrote:And you actually have a chance to get the best score this way. The odds are slightly worse than winning the lottery twice in a row, but still...
Your odds are generally much better at winning the lottery or much worse at guessing a low hash, I'm not sure which one you're miscalibrating.

Though maybe you just mean to beat the current best or something, actually getting to 0 bits off is quite a feat of luck. Like 1 in 1.7x10308 (if I assume that probability is easier than I know it is, and that you have equal chances in generating every possible hash 1024 bits long).

For comparison your odds of winning the mega millions lottery are 1 in 1.35x108. So assuming probability is easy* it's closer to winning the lottery 40 times in a row.

*I'm sure someone will correct me with how terrible I am at probability. They will, of course, be correct. Or maybe they'll be bad too, I dunno.

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macraw83
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby macraw83 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:25 pm UTC

elysdir wrote:Has anyone put together a SETI@home-like distributed system to work on this? I see that a bunch of you are using many cores, but I mean has someone set up a server that's parceling out chunks of the search space to thousands of machines worldwide? I suppose that would mess with the alma-mater thing, but it seems like it might do better at getting close.


I am surprised that I haven't seen anything like "Externalities@home" or whatever, I figured someone would have tried to set something like that up already.
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martin34
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby martin34 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:33 pm UTC

pitareio wrote:looks like you can now enter almost any url you like, take a look at ...


How are they doing this? I just picked a few of the bottom names on the list at random and tried to enter guesses for them, but I keep getting "School not found".

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pitareio
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:35 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:
pitareio wrote:And you actually have a chance to get the best score this way. The odds are slightly worse than winning the lottery twice in a row, but still...
Your odds are generally much better at winning the lottery or much worse at guessing a low hash, I'm not sure which one you're miscalibrating.

Though maybe you just mean to beat the current best or something, actually getting to 0 bits off is quite a feat of luck. Like 1 in 1.7x10308 (if I assume that probability is easier than I know it is, and that you have equal chances in generating every possible hash 1024 bits long).

For comparison your odds of winning the mega millions lottery are 1 in 1.35x108. So assuming probability is easy* it's closer to winning the lottery 40 times in a row.

*I'm sure someone will correct me with how terrible I am at probability. They will, of course, be correct. Or maybe they'll be bad too, I dunno.


I just meant getting a better score than kit.edu (or biggerblackerdick.com), and I was reckoning a number of guesses to get such a hash on the order of trillions (based on what I read here) and the number of possible lottery draws on the order of millions. Didn't do any more maths than that, I was just interested in an approximate order of magnitude.

boozledorf
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby boozledorf » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:38 pm UTC

I've got access to a 1000-core supercomputer, if anybody wants to publish code. I'm willing to accept bribes and give you the resulting best hashes. But I personally think that we could put our differences beside us and actually try and work on this together as a team.

tencate
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby tencate » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:38 pm UTC

pitareio wrote:looks like you can now enter almost any url you like, take a look at ...

Those spammers seem to have access to powerful machines :-)
And they know what they are doing: In the top 16 and just 5 bits away from taking over the lead...

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addams
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby addams » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:46 pm UTC

boozledorf wrote:I've got access to a 1000-core supercomputer, if anybody wants to publish code. I'm willing to accept bribes and give you the resulting best hashes. But I personally think that we could put our differences beside us and actually try and work on this together as a team.

Yeah! A Team!
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Moose Anus
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Moose Anus » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:56 pm UTC

boozledorf wrote:I've got access to a 1000-core supercomputer, if anybody wants to publish code. I'm willing to accept bribes and give you the resulting best hashes. But I personally think that we could put our differences beside us and actually try and work on this together as a team.


Mine isn't distributed, you'd just have to invoke 1000 instances if you use it. But this is what I'm using. You'll need python 3.2, skein, and gmpy2 to make it work. My best score so far is 411, which is more than my alma mater's score, so go to it. If anyone has awesome improvements they want to share, I'd like to see them.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

#!/usr/bin/python3
from skein import skein1024
import time
import gmpy2
import random

iterations = 10
logFile = "xkcd"+str(time.time())+".txt"
minfound = 1024
hashtobreak = '5b4da95f5fa08280fc9879df44f418c8f9f12ba424b7757de02bbdfbae0d4c4fdf9317c80cc5fe04c6429073466cf29706b8c25999ddd2f6540d4475cc977b87f4757be023f19b8f4035d7722886b78869826de916a79cf9c94cc79cd4347d24b567aa3e2390a573a373a48a5e676640c79cc70197e1c5e7f902fb53ca1858b6'

hashcheck = int(hashtobreak, 16)
log = open(logFile,'a')
i = 0
starttime = time.time()
print("input $ score : elapsed : it/sec")
while True:
   nowtime = time.time()
   input = str(i)+"-"+str(nowtime)
   hash = int(skein1024(str.encode(input)).hexdigest(), 16)
   ans = gmpy2.popcount(hash ^ hashcheck)
   if( minfound > ans ):
      minfound = ans
      outstr = input+" $ "+str(ans)+" : "+str(round(nowtime-starttime))
      if((nowtime-starttime)>0):
         outstr +=" : "+str(round(i/(nowtime-starttime)))
      log.write(outstr +"\n")
      log.flush()
      print(outstr)
      if(minfound == 0):
         break
   i = i + 1

print("HOLY CRAP")
Lemonade? ...Aww, ok.

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pitareio
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:06 pm UTC

Wouldn't it be (slighltly) faster and just as efficient if you used a counter concatenated to an initial random "salt" rather than calling time() at each iteration?

zimage
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby zimage » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:10 pm UTC

I'm also getting results that differ from xkcd when using perl.

Code: Select all

perl -Ilib/perl5/site_perl -e 'use Digest::Skein qw / skein_1024_hex /; print skein_1024_hex('z'). $/;'
224e10eaa00fe725b0a89064b7989f1247d6df760acd43e159d7b9b81b490959242445533afe2b14e29db1ce82e73da8906e8ddab2743c9785e9fb401eaf7b040d01766d089f7ff8101ad649d82fee5e40aa39a60cd5c3ed7011d85b6c10bb2b14bc608709f1eb533fb7cab963b22539814e54e8dcfdee587f68dd533657c462


xkcd

Code: Select all

710bcf1cd80594b9d20ee382bff14a1be5afe732c01803fb6b9a63ae9aaab0d0fe65a9b77a747aaa94e3ae2a5f0c3a9cfc3f661b7786c4cd49844168b96ce085e0585c8ba0947909d5094154746e7da30b6e3fed8c8e59ca785c5701da078d9fe190fbb0f247a98f1906bb5e86ca4fec5ffb3bef29951f6f00419bd6451489f4

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Moose Anus
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Moose Anus » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:12 pm UTC

pitareio wrote:Wouldn't it be (slighltly) faster and just as efficient if you used a counter concatenated to an initial random "salt" rather than calling time() at each iteration?
Hmm, that makes it about 10% faster on my system. Not bad.
Lemonade? ...Aww, ok.

zxcs
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby zxcs » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:14 pm UTC

the alma mater list is now [mostly] filled with spam at and past ~412 :(

edit: if anyone sitll is keeping track of worst hashes, my laptop gave me 617 -> FN52hAhKlKQsXIZRkEMW70sTUpHUqqEfIvgLPGsTwInaKbfmv0EUU9t

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pdg
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pdg » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:20 pm UTC

zxcs wrote:the alma mater list is now [mostly] filled with spam at and past ~412 :(


So it's kind of like an analogy to the Internet itself: once the exclusive plaything of government and academia, now open to all and filled with spam and porn? :wink:
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We don't understand everything yet.

boozledorf
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby boozledorf » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:25 pm UTC

Moose Anus wrote:
boozledorf wrote:I've got access to a 1000-core supercomputer, if anybody wants to publish code. I'm willing to accept bribes and give you the resulting best hashes. But I personally think that we could put our differences beside us and actually try and work on this together as a team.


Mine isn't distributed, you'd just have to invoke 1000 instances if you use it. But this is what I'm using. You'll need python 3.2, skein, and gmpy2 to make it work. My best score so far is 411, which is more than my alma mater's score, so go to it. If anyone has awesome improvements they want to share, I'd like to see them.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

#!/usr/bin/python3
from skein import skein1024
import time
import gmpy2
import random

iterations = 10
logFile = "xkcd"+str(time.time())+".txt"
minfound = 1024
hashtobreak = '5b4da95f5fa08280fc9879df44f418c8f9f12ba424b7757de02bbdfbae0d4c4fdf9317c80cc5fe04c6429073466cf29706b8c25999ddd2f6540d4475cc977b87f4757be023f19b8f4035d7722886b78869826de916a79cf9c94cc79cd4347d24b567aa3e2390a573a373a48a5e676640c79cc70197e1c5e7f902fb53ca1858b6'

hashcheck = int(hashtobreak, 16)
log = open(logFile,'a')
i = 0
starttime = time.time()
print("input $ score : elapsed : it/sec")
while True:
   nowtime = time.time()
   input = str(i)+"-"+str(nowtime)
   hash = int(skein1024(str.encode(input)).hexdigest(), 16)
   ans = gmpy2.popcount(hash ^ hashcheck)
   if( minfound > ans ):
      minfound = ans
      outstr = input+" $ "+str(ans)+" : "+str(round(nowtime-starttime))
      if((nowtime-starttime)>0):
         outstr +=" : "+str(round(i/(nowtime-starttime)))
      log.write(outstr +"\n")
      log.flush()
      print(outstr)
      if(minfound == 0):
         break
   i = i + 1

print("HOLY CRAP")
Unfortunately, I don't know Python very well, and my comp sci friends who do don't know how to port it over to a distributed programming scenario. It seems that we're just going to have to wait this out for now until I can get it recoded for the supercomputer. If we get anything, though, I'll post it in this thread.

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pitareio
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:28 pm UTC

boozledorf wrote:
Moose Anus wrote:
boozledorf wrote:I've got access to a 1000-core supercomputer, if anybody wants to publish code. I'm willing to accept bribes and give you the resulting best hashes. But I personally think that we could put our differences beside us and actually try and work on this together as a team.


Mine isn't distributed, you'd just have to invoke 1000 instances if you use it. But this is what I'm using. You'll need python 3.2, skein, and gmpy2 to make it work. My best score so far is 411, which is more than my alma mater's score, so go to it. If anyone has awesome improvements they want to share, I'd like to see them.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

#!/usr/bin/python3
from skein import skein1024
import time
import gmpy2
import random

iterations = 10
logFile = "xkcd"+str(time.time())+".txt"
minfound = 1024
hashtobreak = '5b4da95f5fa08280fc9879df44f418c8f9f12ba424b7757de02bbdfbae0d4c4fdf9317c80cc5fe04c6429073466cf29706b8c25999ddd2f6540d4475cc977b87f4757be023f19b8f4035d7722886b78869826de916a79cf9c94cc79cd4347d24b567aa3e2390a573a373a48a5e676640c79cc70197e1c5e7f902fb53ca1858b6'

hashcheck = int(hashtobreak, 16)
log = open(logFile,'a')
i = 0
starttime = time.time()
print("input $ score : elapsed : it/sec")
while True:
   nowtime = time.time()
   input = str(i)+"-"+str(nowtime)
   hash = int(skein1024(str.encode(input)).hexdigest(), 16)
   ans = gmpy2.popcount(hash ^ hashcheck)
   if( minfound > ans ):
      minfound = ans
      outstr = input+" $ "+str(ans)+" : "+str(round(nowtime-starttime))
      if((nowtime-starttime)>0):
         outstr +=" : "+str(round(i/(nowtime-starttime)))
      log.write(outstr +"\n")
      log.flush()
      print(outstr)
      if(minfound == 0):
         break
   i = i + 1

print("HOLY CRAP")
Unfortunately, I don't know Python very well, and my comp sci friends who do don't know how to port it over to a distributed programming scenario. It seems that we're just going to have to wait this out for now until I can get it recoded for the supercomputer. If we get anything, though, I'll post it in this thread.


The contest ends in just a few hours, so maybe it's not worth the trouble.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby edo » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:36 pm UTC

boozledorf wrote:I've got access to a 1000-core supercomputer, if anybody wants to publish code. I'm willing to accept bribes and give you the resulting best hashes. But I personally think that we could put our differences beside us and actually try and work on this together as a team.



They're out there: https://github.com/jdavis/xkcd-skein

Since I pointed you to one, will you put wpi.edu in third place behind you if you win?
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boozledorf
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby boozledorf » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:37 pm UTC

That's true, but if Randall doesn't give us the real input and just announces the winner, then we'll still have to try and figure out what the real plaintext is!

boozledorf
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby boozledorf » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:42 pm UTC

edo wrote:
boozledorf wrote:I've got access to a 1000-core supercomputer, if anybody wants to publish code. I'm willing to accept bribes and give you the resulting best hashes. But I personally think that we could put our differences beside us and actually try and work on this together as a team.



They're out there: https://github.com/jdavis/xkcd-skein

Since I pointed you to one, will you put wpi.edu in third place behind you if you win?

I'll see what I can do. I have no guarantees that it'll work on the cluster yet.

uaswell
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby uaswell » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:27 pm UTC

Someone in the government has been doing some work (I see NSA.gov is pretty high up there).
However, all the other .gov's are in the range with the spam sites.
Last edited by uaswell on Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:30 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

chrisjbillington
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby chrisjbillington » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:29 pm UTC

I also wonder if this hashing business is a ploy to get us who are stuck on Python 2.7 to write something in Python 3.x, the required hashing library being only available for it :P.

First time I've seen a library with 3.x support and no 2.x support, evidence that the transition to 3.x is actually happening I suppose.

boozledorf
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby boozledorf » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:37 pm UTC

The github code requires curl in order to run. I found the page, and the necessary .tar.gz file, but since we're still not very experienced, we're not quite sure what we're supposed to do with it (I promise, there IS a supercomputer trying to work on this and we didn't steal it)

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Moose Anus
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Moose Anus » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:48 pm UTC

Could someone please donate $1500 so that I can see if it makes the dog nose tip over the monitor all the way?
Lemonade? ...Aww, ok.

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pitareio
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Location: the land of smelly cheese

Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:56 pm UTC

Could someone please donate $1500000000 so that I can see if it makes the dog rampage the city like a modern day godzilla?

Mikeski
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Mikeski » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:56 pm UTC

pdg wrote:
zxcs wrote:the alma mater list is now [mostly] filled with spam at and past ~412 :(

So it's kind of like an analogy to the Internet itself: once the exclusive plaything of government and academia, now open to all and filled with spam and porn? :wink:

When did he open it up to any site? We could call that The Hour September Never Ended.

Gromov
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Gromov » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:59 pm UTC

Now that Randall allows any domain name, who's betting the NSA or Google will win in the end? Assuming of course it really is the NSA and Google competing.

Dit
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Dit » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:01 pm UTC

Does baidu have offices in the vicinity of NYC?

Also, anyone konw what particular location might be the one referred to as a 4 hour drive away?


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