1193: Externalities

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Hexxeh
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Hexxeh » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:12 am UTC

Now hitting around 58 million hashes per second here with a C/ASM implementation across 32 cores.

A GPU implementation would likely blow this out of the water though.

elysdir
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby elysdir » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:36 am UTC

Has anyone put together a SETI@home-like distributed system to work on this? I see that a bunch of you are using many cores, but I mean has someone set up a server that's parceling out chunks of the search space to thousands of machines worldwide? I suppose that would mess with the alma-mater thing, but it seems like it might do better at getting close.

Also, I agree with whoever it was who said that if the answer is a random string, that wouldn't be very satisfying nor solvable, and I would add that it wouldn't seem very xkcd-like to me. I bet it's a string that has *some* kind of meaning. Are any of you limiting your tests to, for example, strings of dictionary words, or the hex equivalents?

TheAbstractor
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby TheAbstractor » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:37 am UTC

So basically, the viewers of this webcomic just paid over $30k . . . to see a cartoon dog get bigger. Mind blown.

I wonder how far you could go with the concept, e.g. start a "Kickstarter Channel" which airs content voted on, formed on input, and funded by the viewers. So instead of "if I don't sell a car in the next 90 minutes, I'm going to club this baby seal," it'll be "if we don't raise $1,000,000 by May 1st, Kaylee Frye will die from Reaver cannibalistic gang rape," or something.

uaswell
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby uaswell » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:42 am UTC

I'm just wondering how long it will be before someone gets permission to use a supercomputer for a few hours and just how close they could get. Obviously, it'd be blind luck of someone finds it.

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San Fran Sam
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby San Fran Sam » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:14 am UTC

okay, so the d(x)= R is loosely d-rule = drool pointing to the dog's mouth.
the thermometer is dog's temperature measured by his nose.

but what do the two slide rules on the left represent? and do they have anything to do with the dog wagging it's tail.

ocean_soul
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby ocean_soul » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:42 am UTC

blowfishhootie wrote:
wildgunman wrote:
rubseb wrote:Donation campaign or no, I don't like this invitation for Wikipedia vandalism.

Yeah, well the man in charge says you can lump it. https://twitter.com/jimmy_wales/status/318734598597115904


I must be missing it. Where does that tweet say the vandalism is OK? Nothing about this comic makes vandalism necessary, though it certainly invites immature losers to do just that.

What else is Jimmy Wales going to say? Even if he were aware of the vandalism it has provoked, which I'm not sure of, he's in no position to demand Monroe do anything different. But his enjoyment of the comic in no way is an endorsement of the losers vandalizing Wikipedia, either through XKCD or anything else.


This. Vandalizing Wikipedia is not ok, and Wales is not saying it is. Also, I'm pretty sure he's not the one who has to clean up the mess... Please leave vandalism to /b/ and go do something more constructive.
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You're my Axiom of Choice, you know it's true
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by The Klein Four Group

kit
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby kit » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:19 am UTC

I got 389 after trying 5e13 hashes. If someone has a way that gets more bang per hash, I'm willing to team up...

DBPZ
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby DBPZ » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:26 am UTC

Why there are no institutes from countries beside US, UK and Australia? I only see .uk, .au and .edu. What are the rules for enrollment?

towako
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby towako » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:42 am UTC

The current leader, KIT, is a German college, but the selection seems to be pretty arbitrary as many other bigger German unis are not included.

HunterAtXKCD
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby HunterAtXKCD » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:42 am UTC

I've gotten to 419 with over 101 billion hashes. Averaging about 2.5 million per second with a couple i3s. Haven't had any luck in a few hours though :(

Gromov
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Gromov » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:05 am UTC

DBPZ wrote:Why there are no institutes from countries beside US, UK and Australia? I only see .uk, .au and .edu. What are the rules for enrollment?


I guess the domain must contain either .edu or .ac.

Zerael
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Zerael » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:21 am UTC

Is there a working java implementation for download somewhere? The one on skein-hash.info doesn't seem to produce the same results as the xkcd website.

It's nice to see KIT on the top of the list for now! :D

thorfionn
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby thorfionn » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:22 am UTC

I didn't expect to see a refrence to my uni when I got into work this morning.
@kit: you better not be using the ic2 (ranked 236 on the top 500 list) other people want to do some real work on it :-p

KIT btw is a German Uni, I don't know how we got a .edu domain though.

teelo
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby teelo » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:26 am UTC

Gromov wrote:
DBPZ wrote:Why there are no institutes from countries beside US, UK and Australia? I only see .uk, .au and .edu. What are the rules for enrollment?


I guess the domain must contain either .edu or .ac.

.edu, .uk, .au

.ac.nz doesn't work.

teelo
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby teelo » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:30 am UTC

ocean_soul wrote:This. Vandalizing Wikipedia is not ok, and Wales is not saying it is. Also, I'm pretty sure he's not the one who has to clean up the mess... Please leave vandalism to /b/ and go do something more constructive.

You have no idea how to deal with internet trolls, do you? Actively moderating and banning them just spurs them on, causes them to change their dynamic IP, and find new creative ways to subtly stick it to the man. You're just going to be wasting your own time which is better spent elsewhere.
The best way to deal with this is to let them be. Eventually they will get bored with the vandalism, and provided you haven't blocked them a lot of the editors will even undo their own vandalism once its blown over.
Think "The Art of War". Don't engage in a pointless war. An edit war.

gorn
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby gorn » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:43 am UTC

San Fran Sam wrote:okay, so the d(x)= R is loosely d-rule = drool pointing to the dog's mouth.

d-Real, perhaps?

but what do the two slide rules on the left represent? and do they have anything to do with the dog wagging it's tail.

One slider for size, one for the wagginess, I think.

Gromov
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Gromov » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:46 am UTC

I am pretty sure Karlsruhe is a little more than a 4 hour drive from New York.....

ealloc
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby ealloc » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:57 am UTC

In case anyone is wondering, you can easily figure out how much hashing power you need based on the fact that the distribution of hash scores is extremely well approximated by a gaussian with mean 512 and stdv of 16. So for example, a score of 390 is 7.625 stdvs from the mean, and plugging that into the cdf of the normal distribution tells you there is a probability of 1.2e-14 of generating a sequence 390 or below, in other words you will find one on average after generating 8e13 hashes.

Almost surely, the top scorers are using uni computing clusters. That's what I'm doing, but I think other people have access to bigger clusters than me (mine's a 64 core cluster for my lab group, and I'm only using 48 cores).

To the people who coded their own hash function, I'm curious how much better that is than the original implementation which already seems quite optimized.

Gromov
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Gromov » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:18 am UTC

ealloc wrote:In case anyone is wondering, you can easily figure out how much hashing power you need based on the fact that the distribution of hash scores is extremely well approximated by a gaussian with mean 512 and stdv of 16. So for example, a score of 390 is 7.625 stdvs from the mean, and plugging that into the cdf of the normal distribution tells you there is a probability of 1.2e-14 of generating a sequence 390 or below, in other words you will find one on average after generating 8e13 hashes.

Almost surely, the top scorers are using uni computing clusters. That's what I'm doing, but I think other people have access to bigger clusters than me (mine's a 64 core cluster for my lab group, and I'm only using 48 cores).

To the people who coded their own hash function, I'm curious how much better that is than the original implementation which already seems quite optimized.


Pardon me for my ignorance, but what does the number 8e13 refer to? In decimal that is 36371, which is not exactly 8.3e13....

squonk
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby squonk » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:23 am UTC

Alright Michigan! Don't stop believin'! Hold to that feelin'!

LordBritish
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby LordBritish » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:27 am UTC

pitareio wrote:I'm not sure about donating : the link redirects me to the french wikimedia page, with no mention of the xkcd campaign anywhere.

I want to make sure it contributes to the "enlarge your poochie" program.


This worked for me:
https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:FundraiserLandingPage&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org

Edit: campaign
Last edited by LordBritish on Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:41 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
In vacuum, you are no longer a sucker.

now to something completely different: http://demesos.blogspot.com

TheSmiddy
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby TheSmiddy » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:28 am UTC

Gromov wrote:
Pardon me for my ignorance, but what does the number 8e13 refer to? In decimal that is 36371, which is not exactly 8.3e13....



it means 8x10^13

or 80,000,000,000,000

squonk
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby squonk » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:31 am UTC

Gromov wrote:
ealloc wrote:Pardon me for my ignorance, but what does the number 8e13 refer to? In decimal that is 36371, which is not exactly 8.3e13....

That's not hex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_notation

Or 8.3 * 10000000000000

latigid on
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby latigid on » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:54 am UTC

Seems as though the induced wikipedia vandalism has finished (alt text changed to "Happy April 1st, everyone!").

We're stuck with Microsoft.

Gromov
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Gromov » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:01 am UTC

squonk wrote:
Gromov wrote:
ealloc wrote:Pardon me for my ignorance, but what does the number 8e13 refer to? In decimal that is 36371, which is not exactly 8.3e13....

That's not hex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_notation

Or 8.3 * 10000000000000


Ah, the lack of decimal point threw me off... It is quite funny however how I wrote 8.3e13 but couldn't see the connection....

LordBritish
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby LordBritish » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:46 am UTC

ealloc wrote:In case anyone is wondering, you can easily figure out how much hashing power you need based on the fact that the distribution of hash scores is extremely well approximated by a gaussian with mean 512 and stdv of 16. So for example, a score of 390 is 7.625 stdvs from the mean, and plugging that into the cdf of the normal distribution tells you there is a probability of 1.2e-14 of generating a sequence 390 or below, in other words you will find one on average after generating 8e13 hashes.

Almost surely, the top scorers are using uni computing clusters. That's what I'm doing, but I think other people have access to bigger clusters than me (mine's a 64 core cluster for my lab group, and I'm only using 48 cores).

To the people who coded their own hash function, I'm curious how much better that is than the original implementation which already seems quite optimized.


Since I'm no expert in Hash breaking, does it involve any cognitive contribution or is it just applying brute force, that is trying out hashes and keeping the hash with the most matches?
Unless Randall has not used the name of his dog in the plain text...
In vacuum, you are no longer a sucker.

now to something completely different: http://demesos.blogspot.com

pixiemay
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pixiemay » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:50 am UTC

Has the dog stopped growing since the mouseover changed to "Happy April 1st everyone"?

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pitareio
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:14 pm UTC

pixiemay wrote:Has the dog stopped growing since the mouseover changed to "Happy April 1st everyone"?


The mouseover text on the dog still says it gains 1 pound/10$. Hasn't changed for a few hours, though.

I wonder what happens when/if the dogs gets too big to fit in an office. But this would require a much larger dog and a healthy amount of cash, I'm not sure we'll reach that point.

nvls
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby nvls » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:45 pm UTC

So, I got a string that gives a hash with a Hamming distance of 357 with respect to the
original hash. Am I on the right track here?

(However, I can't add my school due to the /(\.edu|\.ac)(\.uk|\.au)?/ rule).

-- EDIT --
Scrap the 357, it was much more than that :P (Also, the "Calculate hash" on the site
appears to give different hashes than pyskein when you use spaces and symbols).
Last edited by nvls on Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:11 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

rubseb
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby rubseb » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:55 pm UTC

jaronflick wrote:
I'm impressed at how fast the editors were on top of the changes. Were they warned?

I know people in schools who hate Wikipedia. They would point to this and say "Look how easily wrong information was entered." I would point to it and say "Look how fast it was corrected!"

GO Wikipedia!


I don't know about a warning, but I suspect there is a large degree of overlap between people who edit/mod Wikipedia and readers of XKCD :wink:. And I admit it was fun for a bit, guessing the solutions (and wrong answers that people might come up with) to the hints and doing damage control. I just hope people aren't going to make a habit of "humorous" vandalism as a result of this.

That being said - do we have any evidence that the companies were actually being selected based on Wikipedia at all? I never caught a specific edit that caused the company in question to appear in the comic. Perhaps that was the joke all along? (Especially since that is the panel that says "Happy April 1st" in the mouseover text.)

ocean_soul
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby ocean_soul » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:12 pm UTC

teelo wrote:
ocean_soul wrote:This. Vandalizing Wikipedia is not ok, and Wales is not saying it is. Also, I'm pretty sure he's not the one who has to clean up the mess... Please leave vandalism to /b/ and go do something more constructive.

You have no idea how to deal with internet trolls, do you? Actively moderating and banning them just spurs them on, causes them to change their dynamic IP, and find new creative ways to subtly stick it to the man. You're just going to be wasting your own time which is better spent elsewhere.
The best way to deal with this is to let them be. Eventually they will get bored with the vandalism, and provided you haven't blocked them a lot of the editors will even undo their own vandalism once its blown over.
Think "The Art of War". Don't engage in a pointless war. An edit war.

So, what your saying is that if some group decides they want to vandalize Wikipedia, everyone should just let them go ahead, not say anything, and repair the damage afterwards? I know very well that it's almost impossible to really defend against trolls, hence why it is important to not start such an attack in the first place.
Finite simple group of order two



...

You're the upper bound in the chains of my heart

You're my Axiom of Choice, you know it's true

...



by The Klein Four Group

blacksmid
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby blacksmid » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:44 pm UTC

Right now i'm getting around 1-5 million hashes per second with my C implementation on my 3.3ghz 6core. After about a billion hashes I'm still at 418 bits wrong :(. If anyone wants to team up and split the work, shoot me a pm.

rubseb
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby rubseb » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:07 pm UTC

teelo wrote:
ocean_soul wrote:This. Vandalizing Wikipedia is not ok, and Wales is not saying it is. Also, I'm pretty sure he's not the one who has to clean up the mess... Please leave vandalism to /b/ and go do something more constructive.

You have no idea how to deal with internet trolls, do you? Actively moderating and banning them just spurs them on, causes them to change their dynamic IP, and find new creative ways to subtly stick it to the man. You're just going to be wasting your own time which is better spent elsewhere.
The best way to deal with this is to let them be. Eventually they will get bored with the vandalism, and provided you haven't blocked them a lot of the editors will even undo their own vandalism once its blown over.
Think "The Art of War". Don't engage in a pointless war. An edit war.


I don't think ocean_soul said anything about how to deal with the vandals. You may be right, but it's a different issue. The question is whether it is a nice thing to do, to promote Wikipedia vandalism in a popular and generally clever webcomic. I don't want to blow it out of proportion, but I just thought it was kinda lame.

pixiemay
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pixiemay » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:08 pm UTC

Yey! It changed from Microsoft to Apple and the dog is definitely bigger! :D

keithjgrant
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby keithjgrant » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:12 pm UTC

A lot of work here so far to crack the hash... but I've been wondering if the password isn't somehow hidden in the comic. What do the arrows swapping G with D signify in "Play God with Dogs"? (and is the trademark logo part of the puzzle or just part of the joke?)

nvls
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby nvls » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:53 pm UTC

:P pffff still can't add my University -- I guess this probably wont change? :)

Time to team-up with some university of the list :) go ASU! :)

Tigga
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Tigga » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:08 pm UTC

Looks like the hashing fun ends soon: "The official winner will be the leader at midnight EST".

I don't know if entries will still be accepted after that time though.

Managed 399 last night. Happy I've broken the 400 barrier. Given that the result was a bit of a jump from my previous best (from 406->399 in one go) I'm doubtful I'll manage much better.... but at the same time it's all probabilites, so I could find the golden hash in the next 5 seconds!

EDIT: I didn't.

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PinkShinyRose
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby PinkShinyRose » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:17 pm UTC

nvls wrote::P pffff still can't add my University -- I guess this probably wont change? :)

Time to team-up with some university of the list :) go ASU! :)


Maybe everyone from an unselected university should back one single university, to boost their processing power...

Tigga wrote:Looks like the hashing fun ends soon: "The official winner will be the leader at midnight EST".

I don't know if entries will still be accepted after that time though.

Managed 399 last night. Happy I've broken the 400 barrier. Given that the result was a bit of a jump from my previous best (from 406->399 in one go) I'm doubtful I'll manage much better.... but at the same time it's all probabilites, so I could find the golden hash in the next 5 seconds!

EDIT: I didn't.


Awww, it would have been fun if it went on until there was a perfect match :P. In a couple of decades there should be sufficient processing power in most home desktop computers...

karmicactus
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby karmicactus » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:33 pm UTC

atlantaschoolofmassage has 401? srsly?

gnutrino
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby gnutrino » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:56 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:Awww, it would have been fun if it went on until there was a perfect match :P. In a couple of decades there should be sufficient processing power in most home desktop computers...


Fun Fact: If every atom in the observable universe was able to check as many hashes as the xkcd community has done in total so far every second and had being doing so continuously since the big bang the probability that they would have cracked this hash by now would still be absolutely miniscule (of the order of 1 in 10^200 if my back of the envelope math isn't off)*. Brute forcing 1024-bit hashes is hard.

*This also assumes that the entropy of the input is >~1024 bits (i.e it's not a dictionary word or anything silly like that) but for a one off like this that wouldn't be too hard to achieve, for all we know he could have hashed a whole book to get that result


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