1225: "Ice Sheets"

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pelrigg
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1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby pelrigg » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:19 am UTC

Image
Title text: "Data adapted from 'The Laurentide and Innuitian ice sheets during the Last Glacial Maximum' by A.S. Dyke et. al., which was way better than the sequels 'The Laurentide and Innuitian ice sheets during the Last Glacial Maximum: The Meltdown' and 'The Laurentide and Innuitian ice sheets during the Last Glacial Maximum: Continental Drift'."

Okay, now I can see what Jean Auel was saying about glaciers in her "Earth's Children" series.
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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby rhomboidal » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:20 am UTC

And yet, even buried under a thousand meters of ice, in Boston the winters really wouldn't seem that much worse.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby imantodes » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:39 am UTC

All four locations would be improved dramatically were the ice to suddenly return.

Mind you, I hate the cold...

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby Eutychus » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:56 am UTC

I had never thought of something called a "sheet" being so mind-bogglingly thick (from the perspective of humans anyway).
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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby jpk » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:05 am UTC

Eutychus wrote:I had never thought of something called a "sheet" being so mind-bogglingly thick (from the perspective of humans anyway).

"That's some good sheet"...

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby ijuin » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:38 am UTC

Eutychus wrote:I had never thought of something called a "sheet" being so mind-bogglingly thick (from the perspective of humans anyway).


The present ice layer covering Antarctica is of comparable thickness to these examples, being up to three kilometers thick in some locations,

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby StClair » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:41 am UTC

The website adjunct to one of those "what if Man suddenly vanished" series had some of the significant events/milestones as a slideshow (+X hours, power fails; +Y days, cities burn; etc). By far my favorite, to the point that I considered it the punchline to the whole set: +10k years, the glaciers return and bury the remains of New York et al.

That's the future. Ten thousand years from now, GLACIERS WIN.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby thesingingaccountant » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:50 am UTC

I'm a bit confused. Is Randall trying to make some sort of environmentalist point here? If so, I missed it by a mile. Or is he just sharing data he found interesting?

imantodes wrote:All four locations would be improved dramatically were the ice to suddenly return.

Mind you, I hate the cold...


Agreed, on both points.
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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby da Doctah » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:53 am UTC

Awesome. Now do one for me here in Phoenix.

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San Fran Sam
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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby San Fran Sam » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:09 am UTC

ijuin wrote:
Eutychus wrote:I had never thought of something called a "sheet" being so mind-bogglingly thick (from the perspective of humans anyway).


The present ice layer covering Antarctica is of comparable thickness to these examples, being up to three kilometers thick in some locations,

for the time being at any rate.

Unless you believe that The Day After Tomorrow was a documentary.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby CocoaNutCakery » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:13 am UTC

thesingingaccountant wrote:I'm a bit confused. Is Randall trying to make some sort of environmentalist point here? If so, I missed it by a mile. Or is he just sharing data he found interesting?


You mean is he trying to say that we need to preserve this ice age as is, at the exact point in the glacial cycle, forever, along with every species that exists today?

Probably not, but then again, most environmentalists don't realize that that's what they're saying.

This comic does lead to an interesting thought, though: How much land that's pretty much barren could be lush with a little less H2O on land and a little more as liquid and vapor?

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby rivulatus » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:25 am UTC

Well those cities looked like they were cool back in the day.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby LazyMonk » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:30 am UTC

I gotta say those building have withstood the pressure surprisingly well. compliments to the builders.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby Catprog » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:36 am UTC

CocoaNutCakery wrote:
thesingingaccountant wrote:I'm a bit confused. Is Randall trying to make some sort of environmentalist point here? If so, I missed it by a mile. Or is he just sharing data he found interesting?


You mean is he trying to say that we need to preserve this ice age as is, at the exact point in the glacial cycle, forever, along with every species that exists today?

Probably not, but then again, most environmentalists don't realize that that's what they're saying.

This comic does lead to an interesting thought, though: How much land that's pretty much barren could be lush with a little less H2O on land and a little more as liquid and vapor?


I think part of the problem is the ice pushed all the nutrients away in the last expansion.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby brandbarth » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:15 am UTC

And yes, the mouseover thingy is an "Ice-Age"-movie (film, motion picture, whatever) reference. This is fun! :!:

PS: Where is Volume III: ... Dawn of the Dinosaurs"? :? It was a huge success over here...
Last edited by brandbarth on Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:32 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby RAGBRAIvet » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:21 am UTC

Thickness of the ice sheet at La Crosse WI, which is about 225 miles NW of Chicago as the crow flies = 0 feet.  That part of Wisconsin is in what is referred to as the "driftless region" which was not impacted by the Laurentian ice sheet.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby Andromeda321 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:39 am UTC

I've often pondered this myself when I was an undergrad in Cleveland, Ohio and would head to the tallest rooftop on campus where the Ham radio club was located, then spend a few minutes enjoying the view of the skyline with Lake Erie. It was always a rather spectacular thought to realize how someday the lake should freeze over again and destroy everything you could see...

The Earth is rather transient in many ways we don't usually consider.

I also had a physics professor who argued we need to understand global warming not just because the next few centuries are really going to suck but because we need to understand Ice Ages. There was a good point in that really.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby SolkaTruesilver » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:23 am UTC

rivulatus wrote:Well those cities looked like they were cool back in the day.


Montreal never stopped to be 8-)

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby orthogon » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:31 am UTC

"My God, there are cities down there! How and why did they build them?"
"Maybe it was during the dark period? You know, when the sun went out for a few centuries? All that ice would have kept the heat in for longer."
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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby dtilque » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:38 am UTC

I don't know about the Meltdown being less good (exciting) than the glaciation. Glaciers are big, but they mostly just sit there; melting is much more dynamic. For example, where I live was never glaciated, but if he'd changed to time period to 13-15,000 years ago, it would have periodically been under a significant amount of water.
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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:55 am UTC

rhomboidal wrote:And yet, even buried under a thousand meters of ice, in Boston the winters really wouldn't seem that much worse.


Darker, but probably warmer...

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby peewee_RotA » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:08 am UTC

Innuitian too, but we never really hung out that much.
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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby jgh » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:13 am UTC

All four pictures imply all four locations are the same height above datum sea level.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby Barstro » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:19 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:"My God, there are cities down there! How and why did they build them?"
"Maybe it was during the dark period? You know, when the sun went out for a few centuries? All that ice would have kept the heat in for longer."


Sounds about right.

I'm pretty sure this quote was made in some future timeline where the planet has used up all its resources because the glaciers prevented new plants from growing and becoming fuel. Recognizing that it was the evil Liberals who allowed all the ice to form, they sent back Rush Limbaugh to help see that unmitigated industry would burn off all the ice and save the future.

(not making political statements, just painting a word picture)

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby jc » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:27 pm UTC

rhomboidal wrote:And yet, even buried under a thousand meters of ice, in Boston the winters really wouldn't seem that much worse.


Oh, I dunno; one of the jokes here in the Boston area for the past 10 years or so is that the current answer to "When did the robins return this spring?" is now "They didn't; they never left." We're now in their winter range.

The followup question is "So when will the plant nurseries start selling us palm trees?" This is in fact happening not all that far south of us. (Of course, there are palm trees growing in places at a more northern latitude, such as the south coast of Ireland.)

We do still have occasional snowfalls in the winter, but that happens in Florida and Louisiana, too.

And up in New Hampshire, the standard joke is all the residents who think that global warming sounds like a fine idea.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby drachefly » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:00 pm UTC

jgh wrote:All four pictures imply all four locations are the same height above datum sea level.


No, they don't.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby ctdonath » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:18 pm UTC

To put in perspective how really warm things are now, vs how global temp usually is: http://ctdonath.blogspot.com/2012/02/gl ... ntext.html

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby DougDean » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:47 pm UTC

Eutychus wrote:I had never thought of something called a "sheet" being so mind-bogglingly thick (from the perspective of humans anyway).
From a glacial perspective, they would be thinner than a piece of paper

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby NiteClerk » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:35 pm UTC

We don't need to worry about this happening in the future as most cities have a law that you must shovel your sidewalks.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby cellocgw » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:54 pm UTC

NiteClerk wrote:We don't need to worry about this happening in the future as most cities have a law that you must shovel your sidewalks.


So we'll have to put in an amendment that absolves residents of shoveling anything above, say, 3 meters. Just shovel out tunnels and leave the rest.
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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby NeuroProf » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:26 pm UTC

Hey, that's only 4 of the Original Six. What about NY and Detroit?

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby CocoaNutCakery » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:14 pm UTC

ctdonath wrote:To put in perspective how really warm things are now, vs how global temp usually is: http://ctdonath.blogspot.com/2012/02/gl ... ntext.html


That is an amusing source, but I'd like to see a graph of the past 3 million or so years, just to emphasize the fact that we're in an ice age, and we have been for a long frickin' time.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:14 pm UTC

NeuroProf wrote:Hey, that's only 4 of the Original Six. What about NY and Detroit?
NY is a state. Perhaps you were thinking of New York City?
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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby Alan Clifford » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:20 pm UTC

Where has all that water gone?

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby cellocgw » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:42 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
NeuroProf wrote:Hey, that's only 4 of the Original Six. What about NY and Detroit?
NY is a state. Perhaps you were thinking of New York City?


Now, be fair. When was the last time someone referred to "The New York City Rangers" ?
Tho' I still know a few folks who refer to "The New York Football Giants." :)

FWIW I think it's really brassy of the Patriots to call themselves "New England" rather than "Foxboro."
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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby Moonfish » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:50 pm UTC

Would the burj khalifa pearce the ice 21,000 years ago?
Was there even much of an ice age in Dubai at that time?

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby cashcityrocker » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:51 pm UTC

Not sure if this is what he was going for, but:

Stanley Cups won:
Montreal - 24
Toronto - 13
Boston - 6
Chicago - 4

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby orthogon » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:17 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:
NeuroProf wrote:Hey, that's only 4 of the Original Six. What about NY and Detroit?
NY is a state. Perhaps you were thinking of New York City?


Now, be fair. When was the last time someone referred to "The New York City Rangers" ?
Tho' I still know a few folks who refer to "The New York Football Giants."

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It's up to you, New York City, New York!

I'm not even convinced the city is called New York City. Are we saying the state was named after a city in England, then the city was named after the state?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby Lathe » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:38 pm UTC

Next time, have the depth measured in fathoms .
:mrgreen:

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Re: 1225: "Ice Sheets"

Postby Copper Bezel » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:07 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:I'm not even convinced the city is called New York City. Are we saying the state was named after a city in England, then the city was named after the state?

Silly silly. According to Wikipedia, the state is named for a mostly-equivalent province that was named along with the city, named for a dude who was named for his title, which was named after a city in England that had nothing to do with it, which was originally named for its yew trees until someone misread the name as having something to do with boars. It's so much simpler than you're making it.

Moonfish wrote:Would the burj khalifa pearce the ice 21,000 years ago?
Was there even much of an ice age in Dubai at that time?

Ice ages are global, but ice sheets aren't. More Wikipedia fun - it doesn't look like the glaciation ventured that far. It only hit 38° N in the Western hemisphere, while Dubai is at 25° N. Dubai looks to have been closer to 45° S during the Karoo ice age (during the Carboniferous,) so it could have been hit - the glaciation in Gondwana then was apparently fairly extensive.
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