Wooloomooloo wrote:BAReFOOt wrote:Anyone with a healthy level of confidence can handle criticism on a rational level, and either accept and learn from it, or have a rational argument for why it is wrong. Saying the other person is “just condescending” or “offending” is just being a mental baby, going “waaaaaaahhhh”. Nothing but childish pouting and stomping feet, because the jimmies of their unstable confidence have been rustled, and they have nothing to offer in return.
Right, because whatever makes sense to YOU must make sense to everyone, or else. *Sigh* yeah, I know people like that. They're a joy to be around. Do please try to keep in mind things outside scientific rigour do exist, and there are people other than you who strangely seem to adhere to a set of somewhat different values (totally incorrect ones, obviously).
I think that's a rather unfair criticism of BAReFOOt's perfectly reasonable view that if two intelligent people disagree they ought to be able to discuss the difference of opinion in a rational manner without resorting to essentially meaningless name-calling and, if one does resort to such name-calling, that it devalues one's position.
As for "making sense" being a subjective property, I'm less sure still. I think it probably depends on whether the difference of opinion comes down to a different weighting of values between people (which I think maybe is what you are getting at?) or to objectively poor reasoning.
Klear wrote:And to answer cueball's question: Why the fuck do I care how someone else enjoys a sunset? Because they're my friends and family if I'm saying this to them, not complete strangers, and I care about them.
I think that this is a really good argument, but it doesn't go far enough. Should we only care whether friends and family maximise their enjoyment, or should that extend to strangers too? If we perceive something as beautiful or worthy of enjoyment, and we're upset by a stranger acting in a way that seems to diminish their enjoyment, then even if it may be arrogant, closed-minded or even smug for us to believe that - perhaps in the case of sunset-photography it may be - we are at least caring about the stranger, for which Randall is vilifying us.
Andromeda321 wrote:Yup. I kinda love how this thread is also filled with people who are posting here who clearly overlooked the comic's message of "don't judge people over things that make them happy and do not affect you." Which is clearly something good for Randall to remind everyone of considering how few posting here are thinking of it.
I agree that we oughtn't judge people over things that make them happy and don't affect others - but are people being so judged, though, in this instance? To think somebody could be happier if they slightly changed their behaviour and to be upset that they're unwilling (or unable) to isn't really a judgement of the person in that sense, is it? It may be arrogant or narrowminded or whatever, depending upon the situation, but I don't think its personal. In any case, it seems to at least have the other person's interests at heart.
My own view, for the record, is that we're not really intelligent enough to take in all the beauty and sophistication of a sunset, even if we were able to take in enough raw data to do so - which we're not*. If you're a talented (or even a talentless-but-passionate) photographer, you can more than compensate for the sub-optimal sunset appreciation with appreciation of the finer points of the art of photography (and of the resultant photograph, the memory it references, etc.)
However, most people aren't and could probably maximise their enjoyment by changing their priorities to focus on the sunset itself. Randall has plenty of comics in which people implore strangers to maximise their enjoyment by changing their priorities (308 and 209, for instance) and the desire for a stranger to change their priorities is seen as altruistic and liberating rather than arrogant and smug - if sunset-photography is somehow different, I don't at all understand why!
That's my tuppence, anyway.
*We only see sunsets in 2D, from one viewpoint, over a very narrow part of the EM spectrum, etc. etc..