1333: First Date

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Stardust0
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Stardust0 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:45 pm UTC

I think TPP is actually an interesting experiment, they've got two big factors playing against them:

- People flooding the chat with wrong directions on purpose
- The 30-40 seconds delay on twitch

Because of the delay, even players who are trying to beat the game have no clue what they're doing. So it seems to me that all these players should have the same effect as a prng. Yet somehow they've been able to get very far into the game. So these random inputs somehow average to the right one. sI'm wondering what kind of mathematical sense this makes.
Even if there are more good inputs than wrong ones, we've seen with the ledge part that only one wrong input can have a huge effect; and that good inputs, when there are too many of them, also get them on the wrong path.

So I find it unbelievable that they've even been able to reach the first town.
One stream had a prng playing for a while and it didn't even manage to get out of Ash's house.

wildpeaks
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby wildpeaks » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:50 pm UTC

SpringLoaded12 wrote:PRAISE BE TO THE HELIX.

Bird jesus approoves

sonicspin
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby sonicspin » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:52 pm UTC

As of this writing, aprt of twitch is down because they were trying to make chat more efficient, and in the way they broke Twitch's API, oops

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Jorpho
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Jorpho » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:19 pm UTC

I'll say this much: I never bothered watching anything on Twitch before. I reckon a lot of others can say the same. I'm pretty impressed with how smooth the streaming is. Maybe they'll end up bought out by the time this ends.

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PinkShinyRose
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby PinkShinyRose » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:53 pm UTC

jdaster64 wrote:From what I recall of the earlier Pokémon games, I believe hitting a direction you're not facing will just make you face in that direction, and you won't actually move in the new direction unless you hold it down / press it again in a few frames without changing direction again first. Which actually makes the first ledge not as hard as everyone thought; once Red starts crossing the ledge, it takes two or three "downs" in a row to actually make him jump down. However, since you have to approach the Route 22 ledge from above, that'd be almost impossible to avoid without democracy mode, especially since a lot of players don't seem to grasp the 20-second lag.

I think this feature was introduced in generation III (or maybe II), which is why you could encounter an unlimited number of safari zone pokémon by turning around on the spot in FR/LG, but not in G/R/B/Y (although at least for international R/B and probably R/G you can just use the cinnebar island cheat instead).
Introbulus wrote:There seems to be a new "UTC" timer...anyone have any idea what that is about?

From the counting speed and comparison to my computer clock: I would say it is the minute:second offset from the whole hour in servertime (presumably set to UTC), it's a little off from my computer clock, but I think that might just be a difference in reference clock used to synchronise time (or synchronisation delay, I'm unsure to what extend this is compensated in NTP).
chenille wrote:With all the discussion of Pokémon, I think we are neglecting the important thing, the horribly dystopian vision of a world where someone can be taken over like this. "You're being controlled by Twitch, aren't you?" he realizes with growing horror. "It's-" - but there is no point talking to her any more. The thing he sees is no longer a person - or is her mind still locked in there somewhere, a puppet to the whims of others? How has this happened to her? Is there still a chance of escaping the same fate, if he runs now, or is it already too late for him?

I thought the same thing, but at the time I had no idea what Twitch or TPP was. I didn't think Twitch to be a relevant phenomenon just somebody/thing controlling the person in the comic like a very complicated twitching disorder.

She could have been mechanical though, that would have made it less weird...

sotanaht
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby sotanaht » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:05 am UTC

Stardust0 wrote:I think TPP is actually an interesting experiment, they've got two big factors playing against them:

- People flooding the chat with wrong directions on purpose
- The 30-40 seconds delay on twitch

Because of the delay, even players who are trying to beat the game have no clue what they're doing. So it seems to me that all these players should have the same effect as a prng. Yet somehow they've been able to get very far into the game. So these random inputs somehow average to the right one. sI'm wondering what kind of mathematical sense this makes.
Even if there are more good inputs than wrong ones, we've seen with the ledge part that only one wrong input can have a huge effect; and that good inputs, when there are too many of them, also get them on the wrong path.

So I find it unbelievable that they've even been able to reach the first town.
One stream had a prng playing for a while and it didn't even manage to get out of Ash's house.


With the help of only a few manual interventions and a little bit of input bias, RNG plays pokemon is 6/8 badges in to pokemon Crystal.

DR6
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby DR6 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:46 pm UTC

Stardust0 wrote:I think TPP is actually an interesting experiment, they've got two big factors playing against them:

- People flooding the chat with wrong directions on purpose
- The 30-40 seconds delay on twitch

Because of the delay, even players who are trying to beat the game have no clue what they're doing. So it seems to me that all these players should have the same effect as a prng. Yet somehow they've been able to get very far into the game. So these random inputs somehow average to the right one. sI'm wondering what kind of mathematical sense this makes.
Even if there are more good inputs than wrong ones, we've seen with the ledge part that only one wrong input can have a huge effect; and that good inputs, when there are too many of them, also get them on the wrong path.

So I find it unbelievable that they've even been able to reach the first town.
One stream had a prng playing for a while and it didn't even manage to get out of Ash's house.


Maybe even with the lag it isn't as random as one would think?

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cemper93
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby cemper93 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:00 pm UTC

One stream had a prng playing for a while and it didn't even manage to get out of Ash's house.

Actually, the RNG somehow managed to win a badge by now (after 400 hours of grinding). The ridiculously high Pokemon levels win every fight even with inane commands given, so when it somehow manages to start one, it will usually win it.

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ManaUser
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby ManaUser » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:25 pm UTC

chenille wrote:With all the discussion of Pokémon, I think we are neglecting the important thing, the horribly dystopian vision of a world where someone can be taken over like this. "You're being controlled by Twitch, aren't you?" he realizes with growing horror. "It's-" - but there is no point talking to her any more. The thing he sees is no longer a person - or is her mind still locked in there somewhere, a puppet to the whims of others? How has this happened to her? Is there still a chance of escaping the same fate, if he runs now, or is it already too late for him?

She wore Google Glass* too long and forgot how to think for herself, and then it got hacked.

*Not pictured, because they don't have faces.

rmsgrey
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:29 pm UTC

ManaUser wrote:
chenille wrote:With all the discussion of Pokémon, I think we are neglecting the important thing, the horribly dystopian vision of a world where someone can be taken over like this. "You're being controlled by Twitch, aren't you?" he realizes with growing horror. "It's-" - but there is no point talking to her any more. The thing he sees is no longer a person - or is her mind still locked in there somewhere, a puppet to the whims of others? How has this happened to her? Is there still a chance of escaping the same fate, if he runs now, or is it already too late for him?

She wore Google Glass* too long and forgot how to think for herself, and then it got hacked.

*Not pictured, because they don't have faces.


I think I've seen that Star Trek Next Gen episode

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philsov
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby philsov » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:44 pm UTC

Klear wrote:I'm surprized trolls sabotaging the game haven't organized yet.


Spoke too soon, mon ami.

Some starcraft steamer got a personal army to both promote democracy and troll via majority rule.
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

arivero
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby arivero » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:31 pm UTC

I am waitin for "Twitch guides Homo Sapiens out of Africa." It is more or less the same quantity of people. Well, actually perhaps there are more people now in Pokemon island than humans wandering Africa in the old age.

MTGradwell
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby MTGradwell » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:28 am UTC

chenille wrote:With all the discussion of Pokémon, I think we are neglecting the important thing, the horribly dystopian vision of a world where someone can be taken over like this. "You're being controlled by Twitch, aren't you?" he realizes with growing horror. "It's-" - but there is no point talking to her any more. The thing he sees is no longer a person - or is her mind still locked in there somewhere, a puppet to the whims of others? How has this happened to her? Is there still a chance of escaping the same fate, if he runs now, or is it already too late for him?


I think Robert Silverberg has the answers to those questions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passengers_(short_story)

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Pfhorrest
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:45 am UTC

This TPP shit really needs to end. The OTT had the courtesy of mostly staying confined within its own thread, with only the odd little easily-ignored in-joke slipping out into the general population. TPP shit is all over every general site out there... well mostly imgur, but it's ruining it, and hordes and hordes of fucking 12 year old kids with their pokemans are downvoting to oblivion anyone who so much as says "can we cut back on this stuff a little please?"

Goddamn kids on my e-lawn. In my day we had usenet upstream in the snow both ways, and that's the way we liked it!
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Jorpho
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Jorpho » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:14 pm UTC

Do you think it's really 12-year-old kids? I have no idea what they're into these days.

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Pfhorrest
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:25 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:Do you think it's really 12-year-old kids? I have no idea what they're into these days.

It's people who were twelve or under in 2000 when time stopped, and are therefore still 12 and under today.
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jpers36
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby jpers36 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:58 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:in 2000 when time stopped


So you noticed that too? I thought it was 2001, but I could be off by a year.

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Klear
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Klear » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:09 pm UTC

jpers36 wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:in 2000 when time stopped


So you noticed that too? I thought it was 2001, but I could be off by a year.


AARGH!!! 9/11 was half of my lifetime ago!

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addams
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby addams » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:32 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Jorpho wrote:Do you think it's really 12-year-old kids? I have no idea what they're into these days.

It's people who were twelve or under in 2000 when time stopped, and are therefore still 12 and under today.

An entire culture with Arrested Development?
That does fit observations.

That is going into The Books!
The PoliSci Books will have the 2000 election, the 9/11 stuff and more explanations than the Nazis got.
The Psychology Books will have 9/11, the Internet and Arrested Development.
The Sociology Books will have 9/11, the Internet, shifting mores, and social collapse.

Who else wants to write a book about when The World Ended?
The world ended and no one ever got any more mature.

The End.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Pfhorrest
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:50 am UTC

Klear wrote:
jpers36 wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:in 2000 when time stopped

So you noticed that too? I thought it was 2001, but I could be off by a year.

AARGH!!! 9/11 was half of my lifetime ago!

9/11 will be half of my lifetime ago when I'm 38.

Interestingly, that's quite close to the geometric mean of how old someone is likely to be when 9/11 is half their lifetime ago. Assuming people typically live to be about 80, people born before the 60s generally won't live long enough to see 9/11 be half their lifetime ago. People born around 1961 will die right when they see 9/11 as half a lifetime ago, in 2041. People born progressively later will see 9/11 as half a lifetime ago earlier and earlier in their lives, until people born around 1981 see the half-lifetime mark when they are 40, in 2021. People born in '91 will see it when they are 20... holy shit, already did see it when they turned 20, three years ago. Everyone 25 or under already had their 9/11-was-half-a-lifetime-ago moment, and 26-year-olds (as I take Klear to be) are having theirs right now. Of course nobody born after 9/11 can ever have such a moment.

Of course, none of this is accounting for the fact that time passes differently with age, which is probably why it seems like such a shock. 1998 is literally half a lifetime ago to me, but goddamn did way more time pass in the 16 years prior to that than the 16 years since it. I've been trying to think of a good way to represent this with a formula, so it can be graphed, but it seems like units of time are perceived (in memory) as being inversely proportional to how much time came before them. In other words, as you get older, you perceive less time in memory per actual time elapsed, probably because novel (and therefore memorable) experiences become less and less frequent as you have more and more experience to compare new ones too. Something like how primes get rarer and rarer in the larger numbers, but 7 of the first thirteen numbers are prime, 6 of the first eleven, 5 of the first seven, 4 of the first five, and all of the first three, are prime. (If we count one).

addams wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:
Jorpho wrote:Do you think it's really 12-year-old kids? I have no idea what they're into these days.

It's people who were twelve or under in 2000 when time stopped, and are therefore still 12 and under today.

An entire culture with Arrested Development?
That does fit observations.

That is going into The Books!
The PoliSci Books will have the 2000 election, the 9/11 stuff and more explanations than the Nazis got.
The Psychology Books will have 9/11, the Internet and Arrested Development.
The Sociology Books will have 9/11, the Internet, shifting mores, and social collapse.

Who else wants to write a book about when The World Ended?
The world ended and no one ever got any more mature.

The End.

I had a random daydream once about somehow travelling back in time to when I was 5ish and telling my parents the history of the world that I had seen in the future.

The Cold War is over by the close of the 80s, no shots fired, the world didn't end in nuclear holocaust. The Soviet Union collapsed under economic duress and no longer exists. America is the world's sole hyperpower now.

Shortly thereafter, we had a short, incredibly impressive, effective, and efficient military intervention against Iraq in defense of Kuwait, demonstrating that overwhelming strength and our prudent application of it to the whole world.

Over the course of the 90s, we saw a huge economic and technological boom in the computing sector. There is now a multimedia personal computer in every home, all connected instantaneously to a global communications network, fostering increased access to commerce, education, and entertainment for everone right their homes.

The future is bright and hopeful! Everything's coming up aces! The biggest most controversial national news is that the president may have gotten a blowjob, whoop-dee-doo.

Then in 2000 that tech bubble bursts and we enter a recession.

The presidential election results that year are hotly contested and American politics are hotly divided in turn, and remain that way with little sign of any return to moderation. The new president is criticized over his first year in office for doing little to nothing about the looming recession, or little to nothing at all really.

Then in 2001, commercial airliners hijacked by Arab terrorists crash into the World Trade Center, destroying it completely, as well as the Pentagon, and an unsuccessful attempt at the Capitol or White House. The economy crashes even further amongst fear and uncertainty nationwide.

In response, we quickly and blindly pass new draconian legislation into law, curtailing our own liberties in a desperate attempt to buy some sense of security, but really buying us neither.

We also start an interminable war in Afghanistan that makes Vietnam look like a model of in-and-out efficiency and is still ongoing over a decade later, despite the guy we started the war to find already being found and killed in a different country entirely.

Two years after that we start yet another interminable war in Iraq for no good reason, which continues for most of a decade itself.

Then the housing market implodes on itself and tons of people are foreclosed upon. The recession becomes an outright depression. The country slides deeper and deeper into debt and into international disrepute, while becoming more and more divided internally, both between the major political parties, and between the upper and lower classes. Moderates and the middle class vanish.

After two terms, the opposition party finally gets a man in the White House -- the first black president, in fact! He brings with him a great message of hope and change.

Nothing changes. We continue to lose hope.

Protests are staged across the country, some of them weeks or months long, from both sides of the political spectrum. Some of them get coopted by the political machine and turned into a mockery of themselves. Others drag on and on being ignored completely by those in power until they either lose steam or are shut down by police action.

New laws continue to be passed, further limiting our liberty and increasing government power over us. Blatant overreaches of that power beyond even the limit of the new laws are uncovered... and nothing is done about them. But hey, at least we've all got health coverage now... I mean, we're all legally required to buy health insurance from the same private corporations as ever, but it's a start right? Right? Anyone? Bueller?

Oh and you can now wirelessly share photos of your dinner with anyone around the world, even while on the toilet. That's something, isn't it?

What do you mean, "what about the moon colonies"? Why would we care about stupid crap up in space? World's Biggest Hoarders is showing on The Learning Channel, what more do you want?
Last edited by Pfhorrest on Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:26 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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addams
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby addams » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:36 am UTC

You did it, Pfhorrest.
You wrote a small book about The End of The World.

That is pretty good.
The World Ended and it won't start up, again.

It is such a sad story.
I listened to an ex-PrimeMinister of England speak.

He said his Nation shifted about as fast as a culture can.
He said it took two years.

Was he correct about us?
When did the clock start?

2000?
2001? yes.
2001-->2003.

Those were the damaging years,
We were psychologically knocked off balance.

We are not well balanced, again, yet.
Hey! We were never famous for our 'even keel'.

More crying for what we lost and for what we never had.
We lost a great deal of respect, from ourselves and from others.
We still don't have medical care. Of all the shameful things. (no respect for that)

Let's change the Subject.
I want to addess this.
Interestingly, that's quite close to the geometric mean of how old someone is likely to be when 9/11 is half their lifetime ago. Assuming people typically live to be about 80, people born before the 60s generally won't live long enough to see 9/11 be half their lifetime ago. People born around 1961 will die right when they see 9/11 as half a lifetime ago, in 2041. People born progressively later will see 9/11 as half a lifetime ago earlier and earlier in their lives, until people born around 1981 see the half-lifetime mark when they are 40, in 2021. People born in '91 will see it when they are 20... holy shit, already did see it when they turned 20, three years ago. Everyone 25 or under already had their 9/11-was-half-a-lifetime-ago moment, and 26-year-olds (as I take Klear to be) are having theirs right now. Of course nobody born after 9/11 can ever have such a moment.

umm. How to begin?
A Test of The National Broadcast System.
Do Not Attempt to Adjust Your Dial.

The death of JFK was one of our first Tests.
"Where were you?" "Where were you when you heard the news?"

Any-fucking-Body could ask any other Body, fucking or not.
"Where were you?"

Everybody had an answer.
9/11 was JFK's passing On Steroids!

Mass media is Powerful.
9/11 was a drive time event.

9/11 changed your worlds.
9/11 did not tell us who we are.
9/11 told us who 'They' are.

And; To be afraid.
Be very afraid.

Our people are getting tired of being afraid of 'Them'.
And; Then again. Maybe, not.

There is not one thing I can do to undo 9/11.
I would; If I could.

Your post was full of large concepts.

Of course, none of this is accounting for the fact that time passes differently with age, which is probably why it seems like such a shock. 1998 is literally half a lifetime ago to me, but goddamn did way more time pass in the 16 years prior to that than the 16 years since it. I've been trying to think of a good way to represent this with a formula, so it can be graphed, but it seems like units of time are perceived (in memory) as being inversely proportional to how much time came before them. In other words, as you get older, you perceive less time in memory per actual time elapsed, probably because novel (and therefore memorable) experiences become less and less frequent as you have more and more experience to compare new ones too. Something like how primes get rarer and rarer in the larger numbers, but 7 of the first thirteen numbers are prime, 6 of the first eleven, 5 of the first seven, 4 of the first five, and all of the first three, are prime. (If we count one).

The nature of Time.
The perception of TIme.

"A boy's will is the wind's will,
And the thoughts of youth are long, long thoughts."

by Longfellow
(an American)

You and You and You have had your youths and innocence taken from you.
I am so very sorry. You are the Children of War.

Some say the Children of War are a throw away generation.
I know that is Not True! You are not All throw aways.

It was the Children of War that rebuilt Europe.
The Children of War can do good things in the US.

If others deny that you have been harmed,
They are not doing you a service.

Yes. You have been harmed.
Yes. Your innocence and your youth are tarnished.

Yet; You must find a way of living fully.
You Can! You are Smart!

Your Nation and to some small measure, the world,…
Well…We need you.

You, the Lost Children of the Endless War.
Can You end the wars and build a Nation?

Spoiler:
Build a Nation.
Do not Rebuild it.

Start-the fuck-over.
McCain is an Old Man from Arizona.
He has repeatedly used Media to say Over and Over,
"This Nation is broken."

He has been working inside the Government of the US for a very long time.
He works with groups that publicly brag about "Drowning the US Government in a BathTub."

They have so weakened the US; It may not be a Repair Job to build a nation out of what is left.
We can reuse the buildings. We can reuse some of the Poetry.

The way Things are done may need to be redone.
The ones that bitch about shit not working correctly
will bitch the loudest if anything changes.


Book for Book, Pfhorrest;
It's your turn.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Pfhorrest
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:39 am UTC

addams wrote:You and You and You have had your youths and innocence taken from you.
I am so very sorry. You are the Children of War.

I don't think of myself as a child of war. My childhood was during the great period of hope and prosperity at the end of the last millennium. Then I came into my adulthood full of bright notions of the glorious future that awaited and... The world promptly fell apart.

It feels like driving a long way to what's going to be an awesome party only to walk in the door just as a fight breaks out, the music stops and the cops show up to shut the whole thing down. The drive there was fun and exciting... But then the party ended right as you finally got to it.
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"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

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addams
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby addams » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:01 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
addams wrote:You and You and You have had your youths and innocence taken from you.
I am so very sorry. You are the Children of War.

I don't think of myself as a child of war. My childhood was during the great period of hope and prosperity at the end of the last millennium. Then I came into my adulthood full of bright notions of the glorious future that awaited and... The world promptly fell apart.

It feels like driving a long way to what's going to be an awesome party only to walk in the door just as a fight breaks out, the music stops and the cops show up to shut the whole thing down. The drive there was fun and exciting... But then the party ended right as you finally got to it.

Yes. I can understand your perspective.
I see it like that, too.

It was not perfect.
We still had tons to do.

We were out of debt.
We had money in the bank.

Our Public Health system was doing ok.
We were working toward a civil westernized european system.

We could! We had worked, played, spent and saved our nation.
It took years to get us out of a stupid 3 million dollar dept.

It took those AssHoles less than a decade to….fuck…

You Did arrive as the place was getting Busted.
It was such a nice party. You may have liked it.

I am sorry that happened.
A War broke out as you became 'Of Age'.

Hey! Let's look on the bright side.
Our buildings are doing fair to really good for a War Torn Nation.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

elasto
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby elasto » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:13 pm UTC

Pfhorrest: Is that seriously what you'd focus on if you went back in time to tell your parents the vision of the future? Politics?? And US politics at that?

You skipped over and even mocked technological changes as if they were mere trivia, but to my mind they are far more defining of our age than politics - which as a whole is probably no better and no worse than its ever been.

Why would you not mention that not only is organ transplant routine but that artificial organs are becoming increasing advanced, including being grown in the lab.
Or that we have people with more and more advanced robotic limbs/eyes/ears and so on. Or that we wired up one monkey's brain to control another monkey's limbs.
Or that not only can DNA be completely profiled in hours, it's possible to design an organism in a computer, 'print out' its DNA and create a completely 'artificial' living organism.
Or that most of the world have unprecedented access to knowledge in real-time via sites like Wikipedia and devices like smartphones and Glass.
Or that folk even in the poorest countries of the world can transfer money one to another using their phones.
Or that not only can AI crush people at games like chess, that it can crush them in general knowledge quizzes, and is on the cusp of revolutionizing everything from medicine to teaching; Google cars have driven hundreds of thousands of miles on public roads completely autonomously.
I could go on and on (personal rocket packs; mainstream 3D printing right around the corner and so on) but there's a great thread on this board if you need more examples.

All of these are potential game changers. Technological progress is advancing at an exponential rate, and every generation can be jealous of the one to follow as a much more exciting time to be alive.

Be positive!

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:30 pm UTC

elasto wrote:Pfhorrest: Is that seriously what you'd focus on if you went back in time to tell your parents the vision of the future? Politics?? And US politics at that?

You skipped over and even mocked technological changes as if they were mere trivia, but to my mind they are far more defining of our age than politics - which as a whole is probably no better and no worse than its ever been.

Why would you not mention that not only is organ transplant routine but that artificial organs are becoming increasing advanced, including being grown in the lab.
Or that we have people with more and more advanced robotic limbs/eyes/ears and so on. Or that we wired up one monkey's brain to control another monkey's limbs.
Or that not only can DNA be completely profiled in hours, it's possible to design an organism in a computer, 'print out' its DNA and create a completely 'artificial' living organism.
Or that most of the world have unprecedented access to knowledge in real-time via sites like Wikipedia and devices like smartphones and Glass.
Or that folk even in the poorest countries of the world can transfer money one to another using their phones.
Or that not only can AI crush people at games like chess, that it can crush them in general knowledge quizzes, and is on the cusp of revolutionizing everything from medicine to teaching; Google cars have driven hundreds of thousands of miles on public roads completely autonomously.
I could go on and on (personal rocket packs; mainstream 3D printing right around the corner and so on) but there's a great thread on this board if you need more examples.

All of these are potential game changers. Technological progress is advancing at an exponential rate, and every generation can be jealous of the one to follow as a much more exciting time to be alive.

Be positive!

History is about people, not technologies, even though the technologies often do more to determine the outcomes than the politicians.

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Jorpho » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:21 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:It feels like driving a long way to what's going to be an awesome party only to walk in the door just as a fight breaks out, the music stops and the cops show up to shut the whole thing down. The drive there was fun and exciting... But then the party ended right as you finally got to it.
Doesn't every generation say this?

"When you are young, you enjoy a sustained illusion that sooner or later something marvelous is going to happen, that you are going to transcend your parents' limitations... At the same time, you feel sure that in all the wilderness of possibility; in all the forests of opinion, there is a vital something that can be known -- known and grasped. That we will eventually know it, and convert the whole mystery into a coherent narrative. So that then one's true life -- the point of everything -- will emerge from the mist into a pure light, into total comprehension. But it isn't like that at all. But if it isn't, where did the idea come from, to torture and unsettle us?" -- Brian Aldiss, "Helliconia Summer"

rmsgrey wrote:History is about people, not technologies, even though the technologies often do more to determine the outcomes than the politicians.
I'm not saying that there aren't people out there who have been personally and deeply affected by things like the war in Afghanistan and the housing bust, but if it wasn't for the news reports, would you ever have known about them at all? Would your life not generally have gone on just the same?

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:30 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:History is about people, not technologies, even though the technologies often do more to determine the outcomes than the politicians.
I'm not saying that there aren't people out there who have been personally and deeply affected by things like the war in Afghanistan and the housing bust, but if it wasn't for the news reports, would you ever have known about them at all? Would your life not generally have gone on just the same?

And how many people's lives were altered by whether it was Henry or Richard on the throne?

The housing bust affected me directly - the subsequent economic downturn cost me my job. I'll admit the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq haven't had much traceable effect on me, but the war on terror has had side effects on me too...

I might not have known the reasons without the news reporting, but I'd still have felt the effects either way...

And history is the stories told by historians, which may account for the biases...

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby BlitzGirl » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:20 am UTC

Welp, TPP finally beat Pokemon Red. Only took them 17 days...
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby addams » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:59 am UTC

First Date?
Here:
http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/Features ... mp/8081/2/
I think it would make an awesome First Date.

If you take 'em on a Polar Bear Jump for a first date;
You will have their attention.

Poke-E-Man is boring.
Can you swim?
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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby ShadedKnight » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:43 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:Welp, TPP finally beat Pokemon Red. Only took them 17 days...


255 hrs on the dot!

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby PinkShinyRose » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:50 pm UTC

But they seem to have changed the switching between democracy and anarchy mode.

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:42 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Jorpho wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:History is about people, not technologies, even though the technologies often do more to determine the outcomes than the politicians.
I'm not saying that there aren't people out there who have been personally and deeply affected by things like the war in Afghanistan and the housing bust, but if it wasn't for the news reports, would you ever have known about them at all? Would your life not generally have gone on just the same?
And how many people's lives were altered by whether it was Henry or Richard on the throne?
Very few, good point. Which is why caring overmuch about the list of British monarchs is kind of silly, as well. It doesn't prove your point that politics are more historically important than technologies.

Who's credited with inventing the steam engine? Who led your (or his) country at that time? Who's credited with inventing the printing press? What wars was his state involved in at the time? What political party was in power when the first Model T rolled off the line? What major wars came before and after the advent of rail travel?

The things most of us remember today about the arc of history include large movements and migrations of people, a few scattered individuals of too much import to be forgotten, and a hell of a lot of technological development. I believe the same things are what would interest most people about the arc of the future.

The end of the Cold War would certainly be interesting to a great many people alive 10 years before it happened, but I honestly doubt many of them would be equally interested in what petty squabbles and economic oscillations would occur over the subsequent 35 or so years.
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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Whizbang » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:23 pm UTC

17 days! Shit, it took me months!

'course i was plaing it as a Java app on my not-so-smart Tracfone phone (LG500g, I think), and it was only while sitting on the toilet, but still. The fact that TPP could get through the game in such a short time is mind blowing.

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby PinkShinyRose » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:03 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:The end of the Cold War would certainly be interesting to a great many people alive 10 years before it happened, but I honestly doubt many of them would be equally interested in what petty squabbles and economic oscillations would occur over the subsequent 35 or so years.

I think it depends on your age at the time. The only things really relevant for are the things that happen during someones lifetime (and maybe their kids lifetime, but they would make their own decisions from a certain point). On the other hand, if you live during the cold war, it may be nice to know when it ends, or at least if it's still going on at the end of your life.

The most important thing about the future is probably the information on where to be and where not to be at a given time (if I was 20 in the 1930s, it would be nice to have heard: 'stay/get out of Europe, North-Africa, Central, East and South-East Asia, Oceania, and Darwin during the late 1930s and early 1940s' (although I probably would have figured out the early 40s myself)).

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Jorpho » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:44 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:17 days! Shit, it took me months!

'course i was plaing it as a Java app on my not-so-smart Tracfone phone (LG500g, I think), and it was only while sitting on the toilet, but still. The fact that TPP could get through the game in such a short time is mind blowing.
17 x 24 = 408 hours? Not so mind-blowing at all. As has been noted, the less popular Twitch Plays finished much faster.

It's almost enough to inspire me to finally fire up Yellow again and properly knock out Gary – but since the Nintendo Wifi Connection service is ending in May, I should finish Platinum/HeartGold/White first.

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby PinkShinyRose » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:34 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
Whizbang wrote:17 days! Shit, it took me months!

'course i was plaing it as a Java app on my not-so-smart Tracfone phone (LG500g, I think), and it was only while sitting on the toilet, but still. The fact that TPP could get through the game in such a short time is mind blowing.
17 x 24 = 408 hours? Not so mind-blowing at all. As has been noted, the less popular Twitch Plays finished much faster.

It's almost enough to inspire me to finally fire up Yellow again and properly knock out Gary – but since the Nintendo Wifi Connection service is ending in May, I should finish Platinum/HeartGold/White first.

Thank you for this warning. This early multiplayer loss is going to be a large consideration when buying Nintendo systems in the future (maybe larger than their country code nonsense from the 3DS era).

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby Jorpho » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:29 am UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:Thank you for this warning. This early multiplayer loss is going to be a large consideration when buying Nintendo systems in the future (maybe larger than their country code nonsense from the 3DS era).
Well, it's inevitable with any online feature, isn't it? It's kind of alarming that it's happening so soon, though. I heard a rumor that they outsourced the maintenance of Wifi Connection to people they no longer want to deal with.

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Re: 1333: First Date

Postby PinkShinyRose » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:29 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
PinkShinyRose wrote:Thank you for this warning. This early multiplayer loss is going to be a large consideration when buying Nintendo systems in the future (maybe larger than their country code nonsense from the 3DS era).
Well, it's inevitable with any online feature, isn't it? It's kind of alarming that it's happening so soon, though. I heard a rumor that they outsourced the maintenance of Wifi Connection to people they no longer want to deal with.

This is what I meant with "early loss". It's not that I expected they would transfer the service to a community maintained server like Westwood did with Red Alert (or release the server software), but I did expect them to keep it up a couple more years (maybe a decade) after release of the last affected game (Autumn 2012 pokemon black/white2 in most of the world), especially as they still maintain multiplayer servers for 3DS anyway.


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