1341: "Types of Editors"

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NotAllThere
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1341: "Types of Editors"

Postby NotAllThere » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:24 am UTC

Image

Alt-Text: m-x machineofdeath-mode

I tend to find most editors are WYSIALATWYG - What you see is a loose approximation to what you get.
Last edited by NotAllThere on Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:45 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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rhomboidal
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:31 am UTC

WYSIWTF?!

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby JustDoug » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:55 am UTC

I've always been somewhat troubled by that phrase: "What You See Is What You Get." Why not the more accurate, "I"? You're the one driving the editor around and being the guiding agency, after all.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:00 am UTC

I'm not so much concerned about what I see being what I get (after all, most content is produced for screen now, so seeing is getting), as I am what I input being what I get. I'm looking at you, MS Word, and your stupid bullshit trying to guess what kind of data I'm typing and structuring and formatting it for me without an easy way to tell you either to cut it the fuck out, or the kind of structure and format I want directly.
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby chridd » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:13 am UTC

JustDoug wrote:I've always been somewhat troubled by that phrase: "What You See Is What You Get." Why not the more accurate, "I"? You're the one driving the editor around and being the guiding agency, after all.
Why? The person saying the expression isn't necessarily the one who's using the editor, and usually isn't the only person using the editor, so it uses the generic "you".

Unless you mean that it should be "What you see is what I get" or "What I see is what you get"?
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby da Doctah » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:18 am UTC

WYSINQWSES: "What You See Is Not Quite What Someone Else Sees". Also known as HTML.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby DBPZ » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:26 am UTC

Apache OpenOffice: What You Get Is What You Pay Nothing for.

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keithl
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby keithl » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:04 am UTC

Disgusted by font-dependent approximations of bad slide projectors (Powerpoint, Keynote, and ilk) I wrote my own tool, wydiwys (What You Draw is What You See), which uses any web browser to present a series of fixed full-screen images, relying on a small but seemingly common subset of browser features. It is cheesy bad coding, but a thousand lines of code way outperforms standard bloatware for the essentials.

Most so called WYSIWYG tools fail because they are too dependent on a future presentation environment, which is impossible to predict when content is created. Perhaps someday, we will no longer present images as XY arrays of color pixels, in which case wydiwys is doomed, too.

Fittingly, my first attempt at composing this was eaten by a 503 error. This second attempt is vi-to-file, select, and paste. WYSILL - What You See Isn't Lasting Long, though I was expecting more than 30 seconds!

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby keithl » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:20 am UTC

BTW, "what YOU see is what YOU get" is from the viewpoint of the marketing folks who sell YOU (Alice) and YOU (Bob) the "same" software. Which, combined with differing software and hardware environments, misconfiguration, and unanticipated use, it never is.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby Tualha » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:25 am UTC

WYSINNWWP. What you see is not necessarily what will print. As in, MS Word breaks the lines one way on the screen, then you send the document to hardcopy or PDF and it says, "Oh my! This is not the device I was expecting! The resolution's different, so now I have to recalculate everything ... and this line now breaks here, which increases the length of this paragraph by one line, which pushes another paragraph onto the next page, and messes up all the manual fiddling the user had to do. Whee!"

Just one more reason I loathe Word, love LaTeX, and do not miss my last job at all.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby Klear » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:50 am UTC

Has anybody else noticed that whenever Randal needs to think of a random phrase a horse is involved?

Correct horse battery staple
There’s a horse in aisle five
The HORSE is a noble animal

I think his internal RNG is broken.

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orthogon
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby orthogon » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:24 pm UTC

Klear wrote:Has anybody else noticed that whenever Randal needs to think of a random phrase a horse is involved?

Correct horse battery staple
There’s a horse in aisle five
The HORSE is a noble animal

I think his internal RNG is broken.

Or some animals are just intrinsically better. [/xkcd memetic completeness]

I thought fish were generally more random than other animals, particularly haddock, lobster and halibut. What I don't know is whether those creatures were already more random before the Surrealists, or whether they're random because of them.
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby asdf28 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:25 pm UTC

I'm surprised that nobody's posted a deathnote reference yet.

For the WYSIHYD editors, it's probably the case that if you don't see anything within 10 seconds of opening the main window, you'll probably die of a heart attack within the next few minutes.

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Minstrel
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby Minstrel » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:38 pm UTC

I was really hoping the WYSIHYD portion would be random and I'd get a different one when i clicked F5.

Oh wait...you say yours doesn't say "Stabbed by Pygmies"?

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:48 pm UTC

Klear wrote:Has anybody else noticed that whenever Randal needs to think of a random phrase a horse is involved?

Correct horse battery staple
There’s a horse in aisle five
The HORSE is a noble animal

I think his internal RNG is broken.


How can you tell?

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby richP » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:52 pm UTC

WYSBBEBKI

What You See Breaks Because Editor Barely Knows about the Internet:

What you see:
Hi - hi & hi

What you get:
Hi – hi & hi

just brew it!
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby just brew it! » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:03 pm UTC

I'm still waiting for a WYSIWYM (What You See Is What You Meant) editor. And no, auto-correct doesn't count.

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Klear
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby Klear » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:07 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Klear wrote:Has anybody else noticed that whenever Randal needs to think of a random phrase a horse is involved?

Correct horse battery staple
There’s a horse in aisle five
The HORSE is a noble animal

I think his internal RNG is broken.

Or some animals are just intrinsically better. [/xkcd memetic completeness]

I thought fish were generally more random than other animals, particularly haddock, lobster and halibut. What I don't know is whether those creatures were already more random before the Surrealists, or whether they're random because of them.


To be fair, I think horse rates high among land animals. I think it might be almost comparable to seven.

Hmm... someone should compile a list of most random stuff and make a sentence out of it. Something about seven horses. Or forty-two horses.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby PinkShinyRose » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:09 pm UTC

asdf28 wrote:I'm surprised that nobody's posted a deathnote reference yet.

For the WYSIHYD editors, it's probably the case that if you don't see anything within 10 seconds of opening the main window, you'll probably die of a heart attack within the next few minutes.

A very good reason to keep deathnotes analogue, with users wanting someone to die of suffocation in a day instead of a heart-attack in a couple of minutes (was it 7 of them?). Then again, if you just want some suspects to die without informing you of others names it doesn't really matter.

Suicide by wolves doesn't sound attractive though...

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby NotAllThere » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:25 pm UTC

chridd wrote:
JustDoug wrote:I've always been somewhat troubled by that phrase: "What You See Is What You Get." Why not the more accurate, "I"? You're the one driving the editor around and being the guiding agency, after all.
Why? The person saying the expression isn't necessarily the one who's using the editor, and usually isn't the only person using the editor, so it uses the generic "you".

Unless you mean that it should be "What you see is what I get" or "What I see is what you get"?


Perhaps it should be
WOSIWOG (What one sees...)
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby PinkShinyRose » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:33 pm UTC

NotAllThere wrote:Perhaps it should be
WOSIWOG (What one sees...)

WOSIWOGOO may be better (Only Once), as mentioned before, it's rarely reproducible.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby orthogon » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:06 pm UTC

Klear wrote:To be fair, I think horse rates high among land animals. I think it might be almost comparable to seven.

Yes, and they're also amongst the funniest which is why they're always walking into bars in jokes. I always felt this took the edge off the Godfather's horse's head antics, though I'm sure the real-life experience would be terrifying.

I think the use of the verb "get" in this comic might almost constitute syllepsis, which is one of my favourite words (though not one of my spell-checker's).
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby dfjdejulio » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:20 pm UTC

At Carnegie Mellon in the late 1980s, as part of the GUI portion of the old "Andrew" project, we had a text editor that wasn't WYSIWYG, in that it made absolutely no attempt to display line wraps the same way they would print, various things didn't line up the same way, et cetera. But, bold characters were bold, italic characters were italic, you could tell whether a character would have serifs or not, et cetera.

Prior to this tool being developed, most people wrote their papers with editors like vi or emacs, and used a tool called "scribe" to typeset them (it was like TeX or ROFF).

The term many of us used to describe the not-WYSIWYG-but-still-richer text editor display was "WYSIRN" (pronounced "wizzy rin"), or, "what you see is really neat".

Scribe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribe_(markup_language)

Andrew's "ez" word processor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Pro ... plications
Last edited by dfjdejulio on Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:28 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby Klear » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:20 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:I always felt this took the edge off the Godfather's horse's head antics, though I'm sure the real-life experience would be terrifying.


I think you're missing the context here - it wasn't just any horse head, but the head of his most prized racing horse, so the effect they were going for was not "there is a gross dead head in your bed" but rather "we killed your pet".

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby Spectrum » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:30 pm UTC

Real programmers don't want "what you see is what you get", they want "you asked for it, you got it". They want editors that are terse,
powerful, cryptic, and unforgiving. In a word, Teco.
-- after Ed Post, "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal", in Datamation, July 1983, p. 264, quoted at the head of "teco.el".

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby orthogon » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:45 pm UTC

Klear wrote:
orthogon wrote:I always felt this took the edge off the Godfather's horse's head antics, though I'm sure the real-life experience would be terrifying.


I think you're missing the context here - it wasn't just any horse head, but the head of his most prized racing horse, so the effect they were going for was not "there is a gross dead head in your bed" but rather "we killed your pet".

Yeah, we killed your pet and managed to get its head into your bed while you were sleeping. I knew about the horse's head thing years before I read the book and found out the context, so at some level I still think of leaving generic horses heads in arbitrary beds as being something that mafiosi do as a matter of course.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby cellocgw » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:54 pm UTC

rhomboidal wrote:WYSIWTF?!


2 Internets for you.

Microsoft Word: WYSIN(ever)Q(quite)WYG
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby PolakoVoador » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:16 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Klear wrote:
orthogon wrote:I always felt this took the edge off the Godfather's horse's head antics, though I'm sure the real-life experience would be terrifying.


I think you're missing the context here - it wasn't just any horse head, but the head of his most prized racing horse, so the effect they were going for was not "there is a gross dead head in your bed" but rather "we killed your pet".

Yeah, we killed your pet and managed to get its head into your bed while you were sleeping. I knew about the horse's head thing years before I read the book and found out the context, so at some level I still think of leaving generic horses heads in arbitrary beds as being something that mafiosi do as a matter of course.


Links to tvtropes should come with a warning or something

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby San Fran Sam » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:25 pm UTC

I don't get it. :D

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:41 pm UTC

orthogon wrote: I knew about the horse's head thing years before I read the book and found out the context, so at some level I still think of leaving generic horses heads in arbitrary beds as being something that mafiosi do as a matter of course.

I'm imaging someone getting the context-less horse-head that isn't squeamish about animal blood, who is just confused by the horse head.

"Oh, that horse head was you? I sorry, but I don't really get the symbolism there, could you please explain it"

Alternate version: leave the head on stick at eye level facing the victim's front door. Open the door in the morning and, BAM! , dead horse staring you down.
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby jpvlsmv » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:43 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:I thought fish were generally more random than other animals, particularly haddock, lobster and halibut. What I don't know is whether those creatures were already more random before the Surrealists, or whether they're random because of them.


Of course they're more random. They were chosen just for the halibut. What else could you bass a decision on?

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby orthogon » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:26 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:Alternate version: leave the head on stick at eye level facing the victim's front door. Open the door in the morning and, BAM! , dead horse staring you down.

Still hilarious if you look through the spy-hole before you open the door...
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby cellocgw » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:55 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:Alternate version: leave the head on stick at eye level facing the victim's front door. Open the door in the morning and, BAM! , dead horse staring you down.

Still hilarious if you look through the spy-hole before you open the door...


As long as we're descending into lame and lamer horse jokes,

For most people, being given a horse's head would simply make them into a complete horse. :oops:

So a man walks into a bar. The bartender's a horse, who looks at the man and says, "Hey, why the short face?"
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:42 pm UTC

The HORSE is actually kind of a skittish weirdo, usually.
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Re: Types of Editors

Postby Hyoi » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:57 pm UTC

If anyone dosen't know, the fourth panel is a reference to the anthology called The Machine of Death. It's a bunch of short stories that revolve around a machine that spits out your cause of death on a slip of paper. Randall Munroe has a short story written by him in there, but it's a brilliant book of it's own right. It's also available for free as a PDF on its website; you should go read it.
Last edited by Hyoi on Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:20 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby WibblyWobbly » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:05 pm UTC

And WYSIOWYS, and what you feel covers the rest.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby orthogon » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:29 pm UTC

WibblyWobbly wrote:And WYSIOWYS, and what you feel covers the rest.

What you feel is what you get is for Braille editors. And pottery. (Or e-pottery: haptic feedback combined with 3D printing.)
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby Sunidesus » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:33 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I'm not so much concerned about what I see being what I get (after all, most content is produced for screen now, so seeing is getting), as I am what I input being what I get. I'm looking at you, MS Word, and your stupid bullshit trying to guess what kind of data I'm typing and structuring and formatting it for me without an easy way to tell you either to cut it the fuck out, or the kind of structure and format I want directly.


There isn't a word strong enough for the stupid that is MS Word's formatting "help". I turn off as much of it as I can but it still always manages to screw something up. And as soon as I get things set up the way I want them the IT folk at work re-image the machine and I'm back to square one.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby Ptolom » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:10 pm UTC

Pffft, Vim makes you immortal.

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Re: Types of Editors

Postby orthogon » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:27 pm UTC

Ptolom wrote:Pffft, Vim makes you immortal.

Yes, but every time you use as arrow key, it takes a year off your life. (Using h-l adds a year.)
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.


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