1357: "Free Speech"

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby blowfishhootie » Thu May 22, 2014 7:04 am UTC

Goranson wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:It's almost as if you too failed to actually read through any of the arguments that have already been hashed and rehashed in this thread a dozen times.


I'd be surprised if anyone had mentioned EME, since the last post before mine was made before that news was even announced. But if you have any posts on the subject that are paragons of originality, you're free to link me to them.


Packaging the same stupid, stupid arguments around a different context does not make them good arguments, nor does it make them original (incidentally, this also works as a reply to brain-dead morons who think Separate But Equal being inserted into an argument about gays being human is somehow different from it being inserted into an argument about blacks and other racial minorities being human). Also, the thing you mistakenly believe was an original argument was also not the only part of your post; the rest was a predictable and ignorant rehashing of nothing but already-established and -addressed points of contention from the previous 32 pages. You've admitted to not reading the thread ("I'd be surprised if..."), but the lack of worthwhile content in your previous post had already made that more than apparent anyway.

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Goranson » Thu May 22, 2014 11:20 pm UTC

Do you feel better now, honeypie?

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby gmalivuk » Thu May 22, 2014 11:33 pm UTC

So... you're just gonna continue not actually reading the thread or addressing any of the arguments therein?
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Goranson » Fri May 23, 2014 12:31 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:So... you're just gonna continue not actually reading the thread or addressing any of the arguments therein?

Honestly, no, I'm not interested in reading through 30 pages of message board debate on the topic. I just dropped in and posted my thoughts, and if they're banal then they're banal and if they're not then they're not.

In any case, despite how quick some posters are to advertise for their own cogency their posts themselves seem to suggest otherwise.

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby addams » Fri May 23, 2014 12:38 am UTC

Goranson wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:So... you're just gonna continue not actually reading the thread or addressing any of the arguments therein?

Honestly, no, I'm not interested in reading through 30 pages of message board debate on the topic. I just dropped in and posted my thoughts, and if they're banal then they're banal and if they're not then they're not.

In any case, despite how quick some posters are to advertise for their own cogency their posts themselves seem to suggest otherwise.

Nice.
What did you have to say?

I think it may have gotten buried in the mountain of words we are free to generate each day.
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Goranson » Fri May 23, 2014 4:39 am UTC

If you're genuinely curious go to page 32 and search for my name. It should be easy enough to find.

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby addams » Fri May 23, 2014 5:17 am UTC

Goranson wrote:If you're genuinely curious go to page 32 and search for my name. It should be easy enough to find.

Really?
You want me to search for a big ole' disappointment.

Nah. You want Free Speech?
Package it for consumption.

Yes. I will read it.
No. I will not to a lit review for the privilege.
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Goranson » Fri May 23, 2014 6:45 am UTC

Yeah, I figured as much.

I really don't care if you read it or not, but kindly don't waste my time with your coy bullshit.

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby zmic » Fri May 23, 2014 6:52 am UTC

Goranson wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:So... you're just gonna continue not actually reading the thread or addressing any of the arguments therein?

Honestly, no, I'm not interested in reading through 30 pages of message board debate on the topic.


Speaking as someone who has followed the whole discussion from page 1, I can definitely state that it is utterly not worth it. Your position is correct and no valid refutations have been offered, so save yourself the time.

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby gmalivuk » Fri May 23, 2014 12:36 pm UTC

zmic wrote:
Goranson wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:So... you're just gonna continue not actually reading the thread or addressing any of the arguments therein?

Honestly, no, I'm not interested in reading through 30 pages of message board debate on the topic.


Speaking as someone who has followed the whole discussion from page 1, I can definitely state that it is utterly not worth it. Your position is correct and no valid refutations have been offered apart from those I've chosen to completely ignore, so save yourself the time.
Fixed.
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Belial » Fri May 23, 2014 3:53 pm UTC

zmic wrote:
Goranson wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:So... you're just gonna continue not actually reading the thread or addressing any of the arguments therein?

Honestly, no, I'm not interested in reading through 30 pages of message board debate on the topic.


Speaking as someone who has followed the whole discussion from page 1, I can definitely state that it is utterly not worth it. Your position is correct and no valid refutations have been offered, so save yourself the time.


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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri May 23, 2014 10:07 pm UTC

Goranson wrote:Yeah, I figured as much.

I really don't care if you read it or not, but kindly don't waste my time with your coy bullshit.

Does no one else find this hilarious? Goranson can't be bothered to read the thread, and addams called them out on this by saying they weren't going to go back a page and read their comment, and Goranson, taking the bait perfectly, says 'I don't care if you read it, but knock off your coy bullshit'.

addams, seriously well played. Goranson, that is some freshman level lameness.
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Goranson » Fri May 23, 2014 11:58 pm UTC

I refused to read 30 pages of internet fighting, and I never expressed interest in reading 30 pages of internet fighting. addams facetiously expressed interest in reading a single post, and then when I provided him with simple directions he got bitchy, so I asked him to fuck off. How the fuck is me not reading through 30 pages of this shit remotely equivalent to addams not reading a single post that addams directly asked to read?

Jesus, this forum is full of self-congratulatory assholes who are always quick to pat each other on the back and proclaim victory without doing anything to get there. Who wouldn't want to be elucidated by reading through 30 pages of what you write?

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby WibblyWobbly » Sat May 24, 2014 12:12 am UTC

Goranson wrote:I refused to read 30 pages of internet fighting, and I never expressed interest in reading 30 pages of internet fighting. addams facetiously expressed interest in reading a single post, and then when I provided him with simple directions he got bitchy, so I asked him to fuck off. How the fuck is me reading through 30 pages of this shit remotely equivalent to addams reading a single post that addams directly asked to read?

Jesus, this forum is full of self-congratulatory assholes who are always quick to pat each other on the back and proclaim victory without doing anything to get there. Who wouldn't want to be elucidated by reading through 30 pages of what you write?


Well, for one, you wouldn't have to read all 30 pages. Try more like 3. That's basically how many pages it takes for some self-important asshole like you to jump in, assuming that because you hadn't actually tried to read anyone's opinion other than your own, surely nobody had actually articulated your particular pearl of wisdom yet. And since masturbatory assholes (oh what a splendid visual I just made) like you can't bother reading anything they haven't already agreed with for more than 30 seconds, everyone else in the damn thread has to spend the next two pages re-fucking-elucidating it to them so that they can figure out, like you should be doing any second now, that they've got nothing intelligent to say and stop posting.

Fuck, you don't even understand addams, and I thought that shit was pretty fucking clear. You can't even see addams' level, so I won't bother telling you to get on it.

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Re: Madnessed

Postby BlitzGirl » Sat May 24, 2014 12:13 am UTC

ic refused 2 read 30 pages ah o' series o' tubes (old joke is old) fighting, an' ic never expressed interest in reading 30 pages ah blagotube fighting. addams facetiously expressed interest in reading an single stake, an' den when ic provided he wid simple directions he got bitchy, so ic asked he 2 mushroom off. How de Belgium be I reading tru 30 pages o' dis smeg remotely equivalent 2 addams reading an single poſt dat addams directly asked to read?

eight-pounds, six-ounces baby Jesus, dis forum be full ah self-congratulatory assholes whose innermost essence be always quick 2 pat each udder pon de Bach an' proclaim victory widdout a do anyting 2 get Thor. whose innermost essence woll-did not wan a be elucidated by reading tru 30 pages o' hwæt eow write?


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Re: Madnessed

Postby Goranson » Sat May 24, 2014 12:30 am UTC

WibblyWobbly wrote:Well, for one, you wouldn't have to read all 30 pages. Try more like 3. That's basically how many pages it takes for some self-important asshole like you to jump in, assuming that because you hadn't actually tried to read anyone's opinion other than your own, surely nobody had actually articulated your particular pearl of wisdom yet. And since masturbatory assholes (oh what a splendid visual I just made) like you can't bother reading anything they haven't already agreed with for more than 30 seconds, everyone else in the damn thread has to spend the next two pages re-fucking-elucidating it to them so that they can figure out, like you should be doing any second now, that they've got nothing intelligent to say and stop posting

All you geniuses had to do if my post was so banal was ignore it. Ever since first posting, I've only responded to posts that were responding to me.

BlitzGirl wrote:ic refused 2 read 30 pages ah o' series o' tubes (old joke is old) fighting, an' ic never expressed interest in reading 30 pages ah blagotube fighting. addams facetiously expressed interest in reading an single stake, an' den when ic provided he wid simple directions he got bitchy, so ic asked he 2 mushroom off. How de Belgium be I reading tru 30 pages o' dis smeg remotely equivalent 2 addams reading an single poſt dat addams directly asked to read?

eight-pounds, six-ounces baby Jesus, dis forum be full ah self-congratulatory assholes whose innermost essence be always quick 2 pat each udder pon de Bach an' proclaim victory widdout a do anyting 2 get Thor. whose innermost essence woll-did not wan a be elucidated by reading tru 30 pages o' hwæt eow write?

This post had objectionable content.

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Re: Madnessed

Postby WibblyWobbly » Sat May 24, 2014 12:40 am UTC

Goranson wrote:This post had objectionable content.


Rare to see someone double-down so quickly on being an absolutely abhorrent human being. Congrats.

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Re: Madnessed

Postby Goranson » Sat May 24, 2014 12:44 am UTC

WibblyWobbly wrote:Rare to see someone double-down so quickly on being an absolutely abhorrent human being. Congrats.

You seem to think that conversation in good faith only goes one way. Sorry to shift your paradigm, you poor poor baby.

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby gmalivuk » Sat May 24, 2014 1:20 am UTC

Goranson wrote:
WibblyWobbly wrote:Rare to see someone double-down so quickly on being an absolutely abhorrent human being. Congrats.

You seem to think that conversation in good faith only goes one way. Sorry to shift your paradigm, you poor poor baby.
The problem wasn't that you broke good faith. The problem was that you made a child sexual abuse "joke".

It's probably time to set your forum-related affairs in order, is all I'm sayin.
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Goranson » Sat May 24, 2014 1:23 am UTC

I'll miss the quality of the discourse, I promise.

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby gmalivuk » Sat May 24, 2014 1:30 am UTC

So, what kind of pie does everybody like?

(Which is to say, let's pretend Goranson never existed and move along, shall we?)
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Sat May 24, 2014 1:34 am UTC

My mum makes a really nice chicken and bacon pie. There's a butcher's near me called Haffners, that makes really nice cheese & onion pies too, I highly recommend them.
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby gmalivuk » Sat May 24, 2014 1:39 am UTC

Oh man I wasn't even thinking about savory pies. That's something America could definitely do with more of.
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Thesh » Sat May 24, 2014 2:08 am UTC

I can't even remember the last time I made chicken pot pie... That stuff rouxles.
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby HES » Sat May 24, 2014 2:10 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Oh man I wasn't even thinking about savory pies.

I'd forgotten there were other kinds. Now what the hell is a Pizza Pie?
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby PM 2Ring » Sat May 24, 2014 2:58 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:So, what kind of pie does everybody like?

(Which is to say, let's pretend Goranson never existed and move along, shall we?)


Hunza pie: spinach, cheese & brown rice.
(I was polite to G, but I was ignored... Oh well).

gmalivuk wrote:Oh man I wasn't even thinking about savory pies. That's something America could definitely do with more of.


For me, the default type of pie is savoury and it still kinda surprises me that for Americans it appears to be some sort of sweet pie. Maybe we could have a survey thread in General.

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby WibblyWobbly » Sat May 24, 2014 3:03 am UTC


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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat May 24, 2014 4:35 am UTC

'Objectionable content' issues aside, I think everyone on this page has been a huge ass to Goranson, and honestly that reaction seems kind of reflective of the topic of conversation.

Ok, a guy said something you don't agree with that you think has already been said and addressed before, and he doesn't want to go back and read over all of everybody else arguing about it before he got here. He just stated his take on the topic, and if you don't want to argue it more, then don't argue it more; ignore him. He welcomed that option. If there's nothing interesting about his opinion ignore it, and if there is address it. Instead he gets mocked and berated. And then he lashes out and ha ha he lost. There's a schoolyard bullying kind of tone to this conversation, a kind of verbal adversariality where the point is to make the other guy look and feel bad; not a tone befitting rational adults discussing the merits of something.

I'm particularly bothered by this exchange:
zmic wrote:Speaking as someone who has followed the whole discussion from page 1, I can definitely state that it is utterly not worth it. Your position is correct and no valid refutations have been offered, so save yourself the time.

gmalivuk wrote:
zmic wrote:Speaking as someone who has followed the whole discussion from page 1, I can definitely state that it is utterly not worth it. Your position is correct and no valid refutations have been offered apart from those I've chosen to completely ignore, so save yourself the time.
Fixed.

It's clear that zmic is registering his opinion that counterarguments against his side of the argument have not been valid, not that no counterarguments have been made. He is not ignoring anything, he is dismissing it as inadequate and defeasible, precisely the same way that others are dismissing comments like Gorenson's as as inadequate and defeasible. In any debate, when the sides don't disagree they're going to opine that the other side has no valid arguments, not meaning no arguments have been offered, but that they're not good enough. If ever it were otherwise, there wouldn't be two sides; there would be agreement.
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Weeks » Sat May 24, 2014 6:08 am UTC

Do you not think that saying "your position is correct" reeks of blatant intellectual dishonesty, given the rather extensive debate this thread has yielded? Consider the fact that certain posters haven't shown their willingness to prove that they are worth hearing out. I say this because, when you enter a community with an opinion that is seen by its members as wrong, the onus is not on them to provide you with answers, aka burden of proof. You may think this is illogical, but it's what happens.

Consider the idea that if you arrive late to a debate in real life, no one's going to stop what they're doing to fill you in with everything that's been said. The fact that there's a written record here can be seen as a huge bonus. Also, if you propose a new theory in an academic field, you have to prove stuff, etc., not ask the professors to tell you what the science says (you should know that already). I think it's not that much of a stretch to take the spirit of that and apply it here as a guideline for discussions to be more meaningful and less redundant.

I happen to not be a US citizen so much of the US law discussion is lost on me, but I'll try to be as relevant as possible:

I don't think boycotting Mozilla is any sort of infringement on Eich's rights, rather a vocal expression of alarmed indignity with respect to his beliefs, and a public refusal to consume the products the company he works in produces.

Goranson wrote:So maybe you donated to some new law that proposes raising salaries above $10,000,000 a year to a 90% tax rate, and your boss doesn't like that, why shouldn't he fire you, or strongarm you into resignation? After all, freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences.

If you have a job, and suddenly make a terrible racist joke at work, the company shouldn't fire you for it. If some consumers find out that you are racist, and they don't like buying stuff from racists, it should be okay to fire you for hurting your company's profits. I suppose we all agree that companies should have certain rights over their employees, like the ability to fire someone who is detrimental to their business. If the company can't show that they have a legitimate reason like that to fire you, then you should sue them.

Mozilla adopting EME immediately after Brendan Eich resigned has nothing to do with the boycotts, and everything to do with Mozilla's execs.

I don't know why people don't protest Obama being against gay marriage, apart from the fact that in 2012 he said he was in support of it. As far as I know, Eich did no such thing.

EDIT: The EME thing is troubling, but introducing it here seems disingenuous, because the motives of Mozilla for asking him to resign (or whatever it is that exactly happened) are (or at least were up to that point) only relevant to us as they pertain to Eich's beliefs. I don't think anyone was interested in defending Mozilla, more than simply explaining why their actions were not illegal or anything to be worried about. Given the history of the thread it's rather jarring to introduce this to the debate as such a small aside with little to say about it apart that it exists; it reads as an attempt to provoke rather than actually discuss anything. That certainly adds to the unwillingness to engage with Goranson.
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat May 24, 2014 6:59 am UTC

Weeks wrote:Consider the idea that if you arrive late to a debate in real life, no one's going to stop what they're doing to fill you in with everything that's been said. The fact that there's a written record here can be seen as a huge bonus. Also, if you propose a new theory in an academic field, you have to prove stuff, etc., not ask the professors to tell you what the science says (you should know that already). I think it's not that much of a stretch to take the spirit of that and apply it here as a guideline for discussions to be more meaningful and less redundant.

Except that nothing like that happened here. He didn't ask to be filled in or have anyone do anything. He stated an opinion, was told that refutations to it exist in an extensive read, he said he didn't feel like reading it... ok then, end of discussion right? To use your analogy of a new scientific theory: if some freshman thinks he's figured out how to break the speed of light by driving a race car at 0.9c on top of a train traveling at 0.9c, and you tell him "that would never work and there is extensive explanation of why in this book you can look up", and he says "I don't care to look it up, but I'll listen if you want to sum it up for me" and you say "I don't care to explain it to you"... ok then, end of conversation. Unproductive end for everyone but, sure, but why is anybody upset about anything? Someone is wrong and doesn't care to research why and you don't care to explain why so he'll go on being wrong and what's so horrible about that?

Now substitute "disagrees" for "is wrong", since in this case it's a much less clear-cut matter than dry scientific facts are, and you've got someone who disagrees with you, doesn't care to find and read a purported refutation of his position, and you don't care to restate it more conveniently for him, so... you disagree with each other still. What is there for anyone to be upset about? Nobody's done anything atrociously wrong. Both sides are being discursively lazy, but are perfectly within their rights to do so; he's not obligated to read anything and you're not obligated to explain anything. So don't explain and he won't read and the conversation will just end.
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby PM 2Ring » Sat May 24, 2014 7:12 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:'Objectionable content' issues aside, I think everyone on this page has been a huge ass to Goranson, and honestly that reaction seems kind of reflective of the topic of conversation.


Not everyone...

Pfhorrest wrote:Ok, a guy said something you don't agree with that you think has already been said and addressed before, and he doesn't want to go back and read over all of everybody else arguing about it before he got here. He just stated his take on the topic, and if you don't want to argue it more, then don't argue it more; ignore him. He welcomed that option. If there's nothing interesting about his opinion ignore it, and if there is address it. Instead he gets mocked and berated. And then he lashes out and ha ha he lost. There's a schoolyard bullying kind of tone to this conversation, a kind of verbal adversariality where the point is to make the other guy look and feel bad; not a tone befitting rational adults discussing the merits of something.


I can understand someone dropping into the thread and voicing their opinions without reading through the whole damned thing. Of course, that would be unacceptable in Serious Business, but I reckon it's fair enough here in ICT when the thread gets as large as this one is. Still, if you wish people to treat your opinions seriously you ought to be prepared to reciprocate; voicing opinions that have already been expressed by others earlier merely increases the thread size while minimally adding value to it, making even more work for latecomers who might feel inclined to read the whole thread.

And Goranson's initial post in this thread doesn't simply state his opinions: he starts by asking questions that have already been asked and responded to. (Ok, perhaps those questions were rhetorical). And then he responds dismissively to people who don't share his views and who pointed out that those questions have been discussed earlier. Sure, things got a bit ugly, but I think that's understandable (although not necessarily excusable) when someone comes into a mature thread and expects to be treated seriously when they're not prepared to extend the same consideration to the people who have already spent a lot of time contributing to the thread.

FWIW, I didn't start reading this thread seriously until it was about 15 pages long. I decided that I wanted to contribute, but felt that I was obliged to read the whole thing if I expected my posts to be given due consideration. Yes, it took quite a few hours to do so (which I'll never get back :) ), but I guess it was worth it...

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby blowfishhootie » Sat May 24, 2014 7:48 am UTC

Posting a comment in a 32-page thread without reading it assumes either that your thoughts are so original and insightful that nobody has thought to express the same in those 32 pages, or that you are posting it in such a way that people are going to suddenly think about those thoughts in new ways. Neither of those assumptions were true in the case of the poster we're talking about now.

Nobody is under any obligation to read the whole thread. Jumping into a conversation that's 1300 posts long is not something I would want to do, and I couldn't blame anyone for making the same choice. But by the same token, nobody's obliged to participate in the conversation either. If that person can't be asked to read what other people have said on the same topic, then I can't expect anyone to be bothered to care what that person has to say either.

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addams
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby addams » Sat May 24, 2014 7:56 am UTC

If a post gets lost in the avalanche of words.
And; The poster thinks we should consider them.
Then; With an invitation, that post can be brought into the present by the Poster.

If it is too hard for the guy that wrote it to find,
Then it is too hard for me to find.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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PinkShinyRose
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Sat May 24, 2014 9:05 am UTC

I get that it is bothersome to read a long thread. I also skipped parts of a thread before (although it was longer and grew faster than I could read, I suppose blitzgirl has reason to complain though). What I don't get is not reading preceding parts of the thread at all. He could at least have read the first and last 5-10 pages, the thread is growing slowly enough for that. He could have searched the thread, the forum rules only dictate searching for threads, but searching the thread you're posting in is the least you could do to stay civilised when posting.

Most of the growth is due to people not bothering to search the thread and not adding anything new like Goranson. As mentioned before: this makes Goranson's issue worse, it doesn't improve a thing. The other point is that it's very rude to make people listen to you without reciprocating that investment. He could at least have read the posts of the people still active in the thread instead of doing the equivalent of putting fingers in your ears, stating your opinion and then making noise to avoid hearing others.

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat May 24, 2014 2:24 pm UTC

Restating an issue in a thread with tens of pages of argument, where at least 20 pages of that argument is just rearguing the restated issues, means that people saying 'Yes, the point you're trying to make has been made repeatedly' is actually quite informative, and quite educational.

For Pforrest, the example of a freshman student with a harebrained idea ignoring where to go to educate themselves on why the idea is harebrained is pretty apropos. You'll notice in said arrangement, the student is the idiot to blame, not the person who informs them of where to look.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby addams » Sat May 24, 2014 4:05 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:I get that it is bothersome to read a long thread. I also skipped parts of a thread before (although it was longer and grew faster than I could read, I suppose blitzgirl has reason to complain though). What I don't get is not reading preceding parts of the thread at all. He could at least have read the first and last 5-10 pages, the thread is growing slowly enough for that. He could have searched the thread, the forum rules only dictate searching for threads, but searching the thread you're posting in is the least you could do to stay civilised when posting.

Most of the growth is due to people not bothering to search the thread and not adding anything new like Goranson. As mentioned before: this makes Goranson's issue worse, it doesn't improve a thing. The other point is that it's very rude to make people listen to you without reciprocating that investment. He could at least have read the posts of the people still active in the thread instead of doing the equivalent of putting fingers in your ears, stating your opinion and then making noise to avoid hearing others.

The 'G' may not know how to search another poster's posts.
I am sure I did not know that was a function of the Forum.

Not when my post count was as low as 'G''s is.
'G' does have a Low Post Count. Correct?

What does that Meeeen?
Is this an Internet Troll?
Is this an Experence Internet Poster from a Rough and Tumbler digital Society?

What do we know?
About 'G'?

Is 'G' for Free Speech or Against It?
I have no idea. What do you think?

Freedoms always come with Responsiblities.
The Freedom to Speak comes with what Responsibility?

I thought I had the Freedom to Speak my mind;
Then sit my butt down and listen to Others!

Inside a Time Frame!
At City Hall or SomeWhere!

Very Rarely did I ever Speak.
When I did. I sat though most of the Meeting.

I listened to others. At Public Meetings.
I thought a lot of them were silly, at best.

It does not matter what I think.
I sat there and Listened.

Did you know many meetings happen before the Public Meeting?
When The People show up In Force, the Pre-Meeting Agenda sometimes changes.

That is Good for the Good Guys.
That is Bad for the Bad Guys.

Not EveryTime.
How much do The People know?

Do they get their News from the Crazy as a Fox?
Do you know why they say that? Crazy as a Fox.

When a Fox is hunting, they sometimes Lose Their Minds and start Jumping around and Twirling and Weird Stuff.
It catches the Attention of Anything that can see it. I have no idea how that serves the Fox. It, just, does.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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mathmannix
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby mathmannix » Thu May 29, 2014 4:30 pm UTC

PM 2Ring wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:So, what kind of pie does everybody like?

(Which is to say, let's pretend Goranson never existed and move along, shall we?)


Hunza pie: spinach, cheese & brown rice.
(I was polite to G, but I was ignored... Oh well).

gmalivuk wrote:Oh man I wasn't even thinking about savory pies. That's something America could definitely do with more of.


For me, the default type of pie is savoury and it still kinda surprises me that for Americans it appears to be some sort of sweet pie. Maybe we could have a survey thread in General.


Oh, I made one, by the way.
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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addams
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby addams » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:12 am UTC

The World end in a Whimper not a Roar.
And; Free Speech ends with a Pie in the Face.

Seems right, to me.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Wnderer
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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby Wnderer » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:46 pm UTC

shieldsbrooks-768x491.jpg
shieldsbrooks-768x491.jpg (23.62 KiB) Viewed 8046 times


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/shields- ... -congress/

DAVID BROOKS:
When I think back home, I think of how we think about tolerance. And the point I try to make that everyone was saying, I am — Je suis Charlie, or I am with Charlie Hebdo. But if Charlie Hebdo, the magazine, newspaper tried to open up on any college campus in this country, they would be shut down in 30 seconds. They would run afoul of every Basic Human Decency, every hate speech code, because they are offensive in some ways.

And so my point for this country is that if we are going to tolerate offensive talk, or if we’re going to expect, frankly Islamist radicals to tolerate offensive talk, then we have to tolerate offensive talk. And we have to invite people to speak at our campuses who are offensive some of the time. And we have to widen our latitude in that area.

And this should be a reminder that we have cracked down on that and we have strangled debate. And if you are going to stand up and say I’m with Charlie, then you should also stand up at home and say, I protect people even if they offend me.

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Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Postby addams » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:04 pm UTC

Dear Wnderer;
This is a serous subject, for a comic.
I suppose Chemistry is a serious subject, too.

Title text: I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express.


Freedom of Speech.
If we don't protect Freedom of Speech,
How will we know who the AssHoles are?


It's a jumping off place for a conversation.
Even AssHoles tend to like that Bumper Sticker.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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