1360: "Old Files"

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HES
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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby HES » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:18 am UTC

Showsni wrote:QBasic
eidako wrote:QBASIC
eidako wrote:QBASIC
Steve the Pocket wrote:QBasic

Now you're talking my language! Only programming I've ever done.
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mrob27
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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby mrob27 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:25 am UTC

Like NOTNOTJON, I run my Apple ][ software in an emulator, that runs along with some of my other old software in Mac OS 9, itself running in another emulator. I kid you not:

Image
My Mac OS 10.6 system running an emulator runnng Mac OS 9
running an Apple ][ emulator running my old Apple ][
character generator and fractal programs



Spoiler:
20140425-nested-emulators.png
Maybe I'll write an TI calculator emulator for the Apple ][
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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby ancientcampus » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:28 am UTC

Inglonias wrote:EV Override. That brings back memories.

I tried playing EV Nova recently, and realized just how bad the combat is. The weapons are too powerful and the ships are too slow, and the one that can outrange the other is the winner every time.

That said, I still have fond memories of it, so whatever!


I logged in here for the first time in an aeon to chime in. My word, how I loved and continue to love that game. My EV Nova folder, and all the half-finished plugins I made, is about my number one priority in every hard drive move, as it holds quite a lot of my creative energies invested over the years.

(I agree about the range balance issues in Nova. EV Override is still my favorite.)

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby xtifr » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:28 am UTC

The oldest active file I have is a shell script dated 2002 that's still in use. In the archives, I'm really not sure, because a lot of things got their timestamps munged when I moved to Linux full-time in '98. (I have a lot of files with a '98 timestamp.) I suspect I still have a few emails from the late '80s, in the depths of some backup folder somewhere.
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Samik
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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Samik » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:43 am UTC

ancientcampus wrote:I agree about the range balance issues in Nova.


I just don't understand this. I can't imagine railguns (even the big ones) are really game-breaking factors for anyone... are your ships so lacking in point defense and/or maneuverability that you're getting hellhounded/etc. to death?

Most of my best designs were close combat, high maneuverability. If anything, I always thought close combat weapons were the overpowered ones. (I never succeeded in making a supercarrier that I thought was worth a darn. The only carrier I ever spent meaningful time on was the stripped and repurposed Dragon described here.)

I would love to hear about some of your and Inglonias' favorite specs.


Edit:
Spoiler:
Unless you're talking about conquering solar systems. Of course range is going to be critical there - since you're going against 100 to 1 odds or greater, damage mitigation is top priority. But even then, maneuverability and close combat are just as important. I did most of my conquering in a Starbridge with 5 Valkyrie V's in support. Draw the first wave far, far out from the system, kill one capital ship, zoom on in and park right over the planet and blast each new spawn out of the sky in seconds. Flee when the main fleet gets too close, draw them away again, rinse, repeat, repeat...
Last edited by Samik on Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:53 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby AK49BWL » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:50 am UTC

Having spent MANY hours of my childhood wasting away to the original Escape Velocity on an old Mac Performa 5200CD, and later in my teen years mucking around in Nova (and the plugin original and Override packs) on my PCs, I love the shoutout to that :D :D :D ... Now my EV folder sits with so many different plugins and mods that I think I need to re-download all the original stuff :shock: ... But it's been a while since I've played.

Samik wrote:
Inglonias wrote:I tried playing EV Nova recently, and realized just how bad the combat is. The weapons are too powerful and the ships are too slow, and the one that can outrange the other is the winner every time.


Oooooh, nonononono. You just didn't get creative enough. I logged way too many hours in that game, mostly working on creative ship designs...

My favorite:

Spoiler:
[super geek rant]

Get on good terms with the Polaris, then hijack a Rebel Dragon Carrier, strip it, add the following:

1.) Every form of armor in the game. Carbon Fiber, Matrix Steel, Polaris armor and shielding
2.) Every available reactor/generator (solar panels, nuclear, polaris, etc)
3.) Every speed/maneuverability boost/upgrade
4.) Point defense weapons: one ion cannon, one or two polaris direct energy turrets, a couple storm chainguns (can't get the alliance quad turrets if friendly with Polaris, sadly, without mods)
5.) Forward firing direct energy weapons: Polaris beams, thunderhead lances... there's something else...


The resulting ship is one of the fastest non-fighters in the game, has nearly perfect point defense (can't be touched by even a swarm fighters, or any missile weapons except EMP torpedos), and has enough direct firepower to stand toe to toe with any ship in the game except the Vell-os Javelin, and some of the easter egg developer ships (most go down with a bit of effort).

You can literally park yourself directly in front of the strongest Polaris ship - the Scarab - right in it's wheelhouse, open fire, and down it before it drops your shields. Add in some Wraith cannons for the one ship you can't go toe to toe with (the Javelin).

The best part? If you stack every single generator in the game, it turns out you can burn afterburners non-stop, and be relentless with your direct energy weapons, without ever running out of fuel - your regen rate is faster than you can possibly use in any realistic combat situation.

The reason this all works is because the dragon carrier has way, waaay too many cargo bays for its size class / speed, so if you strip them all out, you can load the thing up like you could only normally do with a slow moving supertransport. And since its so small, some of the items that scale their cost/weight with the size of your ship (like matrix steel armor) don't have a big tonnage penalty.


I've taken on the game in this ship - swarms of Krpyt pods, entire Vell-os fleets, Polaris home defense fleets... if there was a PvP environment, I'd tear apart your best super carrier or Valkyrie V fleet without batting an eyelash.

[/super geek rant]


This, sounds, AWESOME :D so many good memories and good times. Now I think I'm going to start it up again!
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Samik
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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Samik » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:03 am UTC

AK49BWL wrote:This, sounds, AWESOME :D so many good memories and good times. Now I think I'm going to start it up again!


I am just so sincerely hoping this thread devolves/evolves into a huge debate over the best specs, system conquering strategies, etc. etc... (though I know it won't).



In most any game I play, the only real thing I am super passionate about is designing specs and trying to come up with unconventional play styles. Whether it's ship and vehicles, or living characters, I'll spend more time outside the game crunching numbers and trying to figure interesting synergies than I actually spend playing the game. This is the reason I left WoW once and for all. I hate the slow evolvement in many games towards cookie cutter specs and configurations. I want a wild wild west environment - no balance - just give the players so many spec options that theory crafting takes years... and let the players who come up with crazy unexpected synergistic playstyles enjoy the fruits of their labor for a while (until someone else eventually inevitabliy crafts a spec that curbstomps theirs). I guess basically I want a game where the devs don't have any impression of what combat should look like; they just give you a bunch of abilities and mechanics (and slowly keep adding new ones in as time goes on), and sit back and watch as the players discover possibilities.

If someone ever makes a game like that, I will make a sincere attempt to make a living out of crafting customized specs for commission. (Not really. I'd just play the heck out of it.)

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby ZPedro » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:17 am UTC

Oh my gosh, EV Override! So many memories. I could tell you so much stuff about the EVs in general (don't forget the classic Escape Velocity, guys), and of course I have kept the files in question (pilots, plug-ins, essays, etc.), but I'll just leave you with this. My first post on a forum online was about Override (huge failure; my second post, still about Override, was a huge success). In fact, I owe my online nick to Override; while these days I go with the shortened ZPedro, my full online nick is Zacha Pedro, proud member of the Zachit. Piracy in the North Tip? Not on my watch, buddy.

Oh, and long live the Voids.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby TokenFrenchDude » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:49 am UTC

This is eerie, I'm sure I have almost all these folders somewhere.
I thought I was an individual :/

Yu_p
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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Yu_p » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:04 am UTC

Whizbang wrote:You know, file directories really cause more work than they save, IMO. If you group by date created/modified, you get unrelated things in the same folder. If you group by file type, you might get a single project's deliverables scattered all over. If you group by project, you can't view all projects' Overviews in a single list. And so on.

How do you classify something that has many attributes you'd want to search/sort by at a later date?

Cram them all into one big pool, I say, and add keywords to their properties. Search, filter, and sort by keywords.


Overused as the phrase may be: "It depends." File organization is a hard thing to learn as I learned quite painfully with the digital "labbook" of my master thesis. Made me switch back to a pen&paper labbook actually...

I tried the keyword approach once, but I found that simply grouping stuff into a relatively flat directory structure with meaningful directory names combined with indexed desktop search (Windows 8 default but with 3rd party start menu for better access) works more reliably for me, since I do have to give a directory some name, but nothing forces me to consistently tag files/directories.

Oh, also please forget about using standard storage locations like Documents on Windows and the toplevel of /sdcard. In Windows' Documents directory I have roughly 60 directories created for savegames and sometimes machine dependent (!) game settings, while Documents\SavedGames contains only four subdirectories. And thats only part of the clutter caused by games.

On Android it might be better, if accessing /sdcard/.Android/data/<app> would be sandboxed and possible without full sdcard-access permissions, but that would have had to be in there from the start (introducing it now would not help, as the bad way would be kept for compatibility to old Android versions) which in turn would have required Google to foresee, that manufacturers would make 1GB root partitions. As it is, the /sdcard toplevel directory gets cluttered with app directories which incidentially also undermines sandboxing.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby GenericAnimeBoy » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:45 pm UTC

Shameless Plug - My immediate thought when I initially read this strip: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22741&start=7480#p3578444
In light of the impermanence and absurdity of existence, I surmise that nothing is better for us than to rejoice and to do good in our lives, and that everyone should eat and drink and enjoy the good of his/her labor. Such enjoyment is a gift from God.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Nick O » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:29 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Spellcheck is wrong because the common usage it's based upon is wrong, and it's that usage that I'm really railing against -- spellcheck is just the proxy agent of those who insist that the 'n' should be dropped, telling me that I should do it like they do it, when really it's the other way around.


Tecum omnino consentio; modus verba scribendi umquam mutari nefas est. Sunt libri antiqui, neque loquens homines, qui linguas definiunt. Huius etiam causa vulgus "adsent" et "adlitteration", neque "assent" neque "alliteration", scribere debet.

In the incorrect, vulgar tongue:

I completely agree with you; the spelling of words should never change. Old books, not current speakers, are what define languages. Similarly, people should write "adsent" and "adlitteration" instead of "assent" and "alliteration".
Last edited by Nick O on Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:10 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:21 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Spellcheck is wrong because the common usage it's based upon is wrong.
It would be one thing to argue that the now common usage is wrong, and favor an older usage that has since fallen out of style. Still somewhat incoherent, but at least based in some way on usage at some time. But "dammit" has always been more common than "damnit".

Your argument is akin to insisting that we should write "inpossible" and "inlegal" and "inresponsible".
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby thevicente » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:56 pm UTC

é.

I am impressed there are so many posts in this thread about computer nostalgia

AND NONE ABOUT HOW EVIL CORPRATIONS CHANGED THE INTERNET SO EVERY DOC IS NOW IN "THE CLOUD" RIPE FOR STATISTICAL GRABBING BY "THEM" AND HOW "THEY" CONTROL US

or something like that

I'm havin' trouble sorting thoughts

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby yanfan388 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:08 pm UTC

thevicente wrote:é.

I am impressed there are so many posts in this thread about computer nostalgia

AND NONE ABOUT HOW EVIL CORPRATIONS CHANGED THE INTERNET SO EVERY DOC IS NOW IN "THE CLOUD" RIPE FOR STATISTICAL GRABBING BY "THEM" AND HOW "THEY" CONTROL US

or something like that

I'm havin' trouble sorting thoughts


vote up! i wouldn't put anything in the cloud. people in this country are too trusting!

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby yanfan388 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:10 am UTC

Oooooops! i misunderstood your sarcasm. sorry. not yet always comfortable with the language.

I still don't like the cloud and will keep my old zip disks.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Eebster the Great » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:45 am UTC

Whizbang wrote:You know, file directories really cause more work than they save, IMO. If you group by date created/modified, you get unrelated things in the same folder. If you group by file type, you might get a single project's deliverables scattered all over. If you group by project, you can't view all projects' Overviews in a single list. And so on.

How do you classify something that has many attributes you'd want to search/sort by at a later date?

Cram them all into one big pool, I say, and add keywords to their properties. Search, filter, and sort by keywords.

Believe me, when you have tens of thousands of very similar files used for serious work, it is absolutely essential that you sort them in a logical directory hierarchy or you will lose everything. When I was working on molecular dynamics, I could easily generate over 100 files a day, and I had no way of knowing which ones I would need in the future (sometimes all of them). Sorting by filetype, filename, and date were very useful, but they were not enough. The more tags you try to put into a file's name, the longer the name becomes (which causes problems in itself), and there is no other way to tag most of the filetypes I was using. If I lumped them all into a single gigantic folder, eventually someone would just delete them all rather than try to go figure out what went where.

But in most cases it is definitely possible to keep all your personal files in a few big folders (like "Documents" and "Downloads"), because you will remember the important ones from the name and date.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Earthling on Mars » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:05 pm UTC

I have a rewritable CD of stuff I did when I was < 8. I should look through that sometime.

I also still have a box of floppy disks. Someday when I have grandkids I can tell them that this is what we used back in my day. :mrgreen:

Will we still be able to read our old files when we're all carrying handheld 256-qubit computers, I wonder?

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Eebster the Great » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:47 pm UTC

I feel like quantum computers are unlikely to ever be used for personal computing. There's no particular reason they would be faster than conventional computers.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Nick O » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:55 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:I feel like quantum computers are unlikely to ever be used for personal computing. There's no particular reason they would be faster than conventional computers.


My knowledge of quantum computing is at present very low*, but things like Shor's algorithm imply that quantum computers will be significantly faster at least for certain tasks.

*That is, I know absolutely nothing about the "quantum" part, but I'm comfortable with the "computing" part. In other words, I'm just pretending to have relevant knowledge.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Yu_p » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:47 am UTC

Nick O wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:I feel like quantum computers are unlikely to ever be used for personal computing. There's no particular reason they would be faster than conventional computers.

My knowledge of quantum computing is at present very low*, but things like Shor's algorithm imply that quantum computers will be significantly faster at least for certain tasks.

There you go. They will be significantly faster for solving certain problems, just like GPUs are now. I'd expect them to become some kind of coprocessor, initially maybe for HPC ("supercomputers") but given the history of computing I wouldn't wonder too much if at some point https were to use that quantum-coprocessor in your Galaxy S43 or iPhone 40 in response to quantum-computer based decryption-algorithms.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby orthogon » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:47 am UTC

Yu_p wrote:... I wouldn't wonder too much if at some point https were to use that quantum-coprocessor in your Galaxy S43 or iPhone 40 in response to quantum-computer based decryption-algorithms.

The least plausible part of that prediction is that Apple would simply continue to use successive members of Z+ to label versions of the iPhone. See also: iPhone 4S, OS X...
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Eebster the Great » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:01 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Yu_p wrote:... I wouldn't wonder too much if at some point https were to use that quantum-coprocessor in your Galaxy S43 or iPhone 40 in response to quantum-computer based decryption-algorithms.

The least plausible part of that prediction is that Apple would simply continue to use successive members of Z+ to label versions of the iPhone. See also: iPhone 4S, OS X...

Well he didn't say they were successive. It could be that the iPhone 40 followed the iPhone 808, which followed the iPhone Us, which followed the iPhone Tango Ten or whatever. That would be pretty much in line with expectations.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby orthogon » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:43 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:
orthogon wrote:
Yu_p wrote:... I wouldn't wonder too much if at some point https were to use that quantum-coprocessor in your Galaxy S43 or iPhone 40 in response to quantum-computer based decryption-algorithms.

The least plausible part of that prediction is that Apple would simply continue to use successive members of Z+ to label versions of the iPhone. See also: iPhone 4S, OS X...

Well he didn't say they were successive. It could be that the iPhone 40 followed the iPhone 808, which followed the iPhone Us, which followed the iPhone Tango Ten or whatever. That would be pretty much in line with expectations.

Touché. However, whilst I think "Tango Ten" is brilliant, to re-use 808 would be heresy: that number must always be reserved for this beauty.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby AndrewGPaul » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:58 pm UTC

The oldest files I can find are game saves for the original TIE Fighter, from 1995. Sadly, the save files from my very first game no longer survive. That was Microprose's Gunship 2000, (c) 1991 according to the back of the box. Yes, I still own it. It's no use to me, though, as it came on three HD 5.25" floppies. I still have them - and the backups I made on 3.5" floppies some years later, but my PC no longer has a floppy drive of either type.

It's as lost to me as the cassette tapes of Faith No More live at the Brixton Academy and The Almighty's Soul Destruction. The VHS tapes of Insektors are no longer viewable, but the last act of my old VHS recorder was to play them back so I could record them onto a HDD recorder.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby dtobias » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:36 pm UTC

Among my own file debris (some of it multiply-nested from a succession of past systems, some pulled out of the nesting in an attempt to arrange it in a more logical structure) there are some copies of early-1980s IBM PC floppies, which are the earliest things (ranked by the date I actually first acquired them, not the original creation date, since there are undoubtably historical items of earlier vintage downloaded much later) in my collection. There may be some files there downloaded off the mainframes at CMU while I attended it in the '80s. Unfortunately, I never ported over my earlier computer files, on Apple II disks dating back as far as 1979, long-since lost.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Eebster the Great » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:12 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:
orthogon wrote:
Yu_p wrote:... I wouldn't wonder too much if at some point https were to use that quantum-coprocessor in your Galaxy S43 or iPhone 40 in response to quantum-computer based decryption-algorithms.

The least plausible part of that prediction is that Apple would simply continue to use successive members of Z+ to label versions of the iPhone. See also: iPhone 4S, OS X...

Well he didn't say they were successive. It could be that the iPhone 40 followed the iPhone 808, which followed the iPhone Us, which followed the iPhone Tango Ten or whatever. That would be pretty much in line with expectations.

Touché. However, whilst I think "Tango Ten" is brilliant, to re-use 808 would be heresy: that number must always be reserved for this beauty.

They will use that name to try to recapture the dwindling hipster market.

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:23 pm UTC

Yu_p wrote:
Nick O wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:I feel like quantum computers are unlikely to ever be used for personal computing. There's no particular reason they would be faster than conventional computers.

My knowledge of quantum computing is at present very low*, but things like Shor's algorithm imply that quantum computers will be significantly faster at least for certain tasks.

There you go. They will be significantly faster for solving certain problems, just like GPUs are now. I'd expect them to become some kind of coprocessor, initially maybe for HPC ("supercomputers") but given the history of computing I wouldn't wonder too much if at some point https were to use that quantum-coprocessor in your Galaxy S43 or iPhone 40 in response to quantum-computer based decryption-algorithms.

So we'll have them in pocket edition in 2 years?

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Re: 1360: "Old Files"

Postby Samik » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:21 pm UTC

AndrewGPaul wrote:The oldest files I can find are game saves for the original TIE Fighter, from 1995.

Ok, I'm over EV Nova. Let's talk about TIE Fighter now.


Like that one time I took out six Defenders simultaneously in an Interceptor with completely busted radar (hard difficulty). Took me over an hour, because a.) flying super defensive, obviously, and b.) while my HUD functioned, if the defender I was focusing on managed to get off my main screen, it was nearly impossible to find it again before its shields had regened whatever minor damage I'd done to it - without radar, there was no way of knowing if the next TIE to cross my screen was the one I had been working on, until I hit it and saw if the shield %age dropped at all. Probably took me 20-30 minutes to bag the first one, at which point I knew the task was achievable.

Course, all this really demonstrates is how terrible the enemy firing AI was...


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